Skyrim "Hardcore" Playstyle

I've enjoyed this thread a lot and I've used many of the ideas here to modify my own playstyle. I thought I'd jot down some of the general principles I've come to use that suit my characters and are a lot of fun for me.

My Own Hardcore Style

Some a priori assumptions:
-The adventurer carries a pack. We cannot see it for some reason, but the Dragonborn doesn't carry all that junk in his pockets.
-"Clothes" is a generic term that includes several layers of attire that can be modified for weather.
-The more powerful a potion is, the larger it is. HOWEVER, the largest potions are still only about the size of airline liquor bottles. Smaller ones might represent a teaspoon-sized dose.
-Using a bed or sleeping mat is "resting" not sleeping. Resting can include puttering around the fire, flipping through books, having a bite to eat, then turning in. Using a sleeping mat for anything more than eight hours includes eight hours of sleep and the remaining time of leisure rest activity. Using a sleeping mat for less than eight hours results in at least an hour of non-sleeping activity and the remainder is sleep. Assume an adventurer needs a bare minimum of four hours of sleep, then five hours out of every twenty-four must be spent resting. Occasionally missing is permitted, but must be made up for with longer rest cycles for at least a week (this is all based on rest requirement studies done by the US Army that govern SOP applying to elite units. Presumably the Dragonborn is the sort of person that would qualify for Special Forces).
-The "Carry Weight" figure is not a pure weight that is equatable to pounds or kilograms etc. It represents an abstract figure that incorporates the actual weight as well as bulk of an item. For example, two items could have the same real-world weight but different "Carry Weight" ratings if one was dense and compact but the other was bulky and awkward.
-Magic items are readily identifiable as such, even by non-magical PCs.

Philosophy:
-Have a job! Despite the name, no one was born just to be the Dragonborn, or an adventurer at all. In the period Skyrim is based on, jobs tended to be passed down within the same family. So I decide what my char's father did, then assume that's the profession that he's following or escaping from.
-Must have specific, realistic reason for getting out there. Escaping from the law, hunting, mining, setting up shop in a different city, looking for a Stormcloak camp etc. No "I'm just gonna wander around and see if I can't find something to kill." The game storyline is set up to give us a framework: at first to escape Helgen, then deliver a message to the Jarl, then kill a dragon, and so forth. Expand on this.
-If my char decides to be a mercenary or bounty-hunter and make a living filling contracts, he must get the contract, do the job, and return. No one would actually hire him again if he filled a contract but didn't report the results until months later. The quests that he gets unwillingingly roped into he can perform at his leisure or not at all though.
-Spend some money from time to time! It's very easy to get into the habit of making or finding everything, and only using the merchants to sell junk to. Presumably other people are buying these things and other wares or the economy would collapse. However, there are some things that just cannot be found in the wilds but that also aren't part of the game. Shoe repair, that pack you can't see, sundry supplies used every time he forges, smelts, tools, uses an alchemy bench, etc. Every now and then buy something, anything, to return some money into the system for these undocumented but surely present commodities.
-Learn to ignore quests! This is a hard one. We like to clear the quest log, and that sometimes leads us to find justification for actions against type. Would a knight character really kill an old lady? "But she's really mean and abuses children!" If that's what the char would do then fine, but don't shoehorn it in just to clear the log or get an in-game benefit. Remain true to the character profile.
-Find a home! I don't mean buy a home, but at least have a spot that the char can say he's from. Be it an abandoned shack, a random little village, a particular inn, etc. The char must have a place he's from or at least staying at for awhile in Skyrim.

Travel:
-While traveling under normal circumstances, cannot wear armor or have heavy weapons equipped. A knife or dagger can be kept equipped.
-When traveling must wear clothes on body and feet. If it's cold, must wear a hat and gloves (Nords can ignore).
-Must always have in possession a wooden plate or bowl, a knife or dagger, and a tankard, cup, or flagon.
-On any long trip must have a couple pieces of edible food (eg. raw meat will not suffice unless there is a known cooking spit in the area).
-If a trip is very long (eg. between holds) it must be accomplished by carriage or horseback. Travel for exploration provides an exception to this. Under normal circumstances though, a trip eg. from Riften to Markarth would not be attempted without a horse.

Combat:
-If ambushed, what the char is wearing is what he fights with.
-If he can separate himself from foes long enough, he can switch to a sword or bow (assumedly these are strapped to the outside of the pack, bows unstrung).
-Cannot change into armor unless he is completely disengaged from enemies.
-Similarly, cannot use potions or scrolls mid-swing. Must at least separate from combat a bit.
-Okay to switch back and forth from magic to previously equipped weapons or shield at any time.
-If in areas where combat is highly likely, it is permissible to prepare by equipping armor and weapons. This is considered a high alert status though, and is slow and draining. Walk rather than run when in this state (until actually engaged, of course), and MUST rest if this state is maintained for more than two game hours. This does not apply to dungeoneering or bandit-busting, just world travel.

Loot:
This is where I find the most unreconcileable dissonance between realism, playability, and the game system. So I just killed a bandit, and his bloody, cheap, rusty, cut-up iron armor has some value. Realisitically, would it? However, in the European Middle Ages and in the Feudal period in Japan it is well-documented that commoners would, in fact, swarm over battlefields and loot the warriors' bodies for every scrap of metal or cloth they could grab. The willingness of my Dragonborns to engage in this sort of activity varies based on their RP persona. Figuring out how much of this type of loot he can caryr is difficult though. I don't care to just limit to some percentage of in-game carry weight. To me this just seems like trading some arbitrary number for another, and can still lead to unrealistic loads. Instead I always try to bear in mind some general guidelines for looting.
-Cannot carry more than one extra "main" piece of armor and two of each other piece. Multiply by three if traveling by horse and horse is nearby.
-Things of obvious value are always preferred over things of questionable value. Eg. jewelry and magic items have obvious value, plain gear and food etc. have questionable value, even if the number in the "Value" column is the same.
-Must always seek out a merchant and sell as soon as acquiring this "bloody" type of loot. No carrying it around for a while.
-Don't do things that seem unlikely!
-Trapping and the fur trade was a major part of the world's economy until not too long ago. The vast majority of these furs were made into clothes, hats, and other vanity items. Domestic (or semi-domestic) cattle and horses provided almost all utility leather. Therefore, unless I've decided earlier that tanning is part of the char's background, furs are for selling, not turning into leather. Buy leather if needed to improve gear.

Perks:
-Perks represent specialization and mastery achieved through strenuous study, experimentation, and training.
-Never take two levels of a perk at once. They represent cumulative experience, and I can't learn a more advanced technique if I only just learned the basic technique. In this same vein, always use a perk before taking the next one. So if I buy dwarven smithing, in addition to waiting some time I must also craft at least a couple dwarven items before taking Orcish smithing.
-Many of the perks are self-taught, such as most of the thief and combat perks. Some, however, are governed by appropriateness as described below.
-Perks should be appropriate, not just beneficial. For instance, unless I've developed a smithing background independently, then taking perks in smithing is inappropriate.
-This can, however, be accomodated by questing. For instance, if my non-smith character wants to specialize in smithing, then he can make a pilgrimage to several different smiths and spend some time training under each one. Starting with Alvor or another village smith, spend three days in his company (Alvor even has a little tutorial quest that does this). Buy at least 300 septims' worth of merchandise from him. Now the first smithing perk is appropriate. Then to go to Adrianna or Rustleif (or any other mid-level smith) before training more advanced perks, and finally Balimund or Eorlund before taking the top-level perks.
-Similarly, don't perk magic until visiting the college, buy from and chat with the trainer for that particular magic school. (In all cases, where possible, training levels in the skill count towards both time and money spent with trainer.)
-In all cases, skills that a particular race has a +10 in are exempt from this requirement (so my Dunmer char can perk destruction without ever visiting the college, but not the other magics).

Wow. That is very impressive.

I've finally had the patience to use this playstlye for more than an hour and I am loving how much harder this is making it.





































Thats what she said.


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Very impressive additions and I will say that I already employ almost all of those. You also gave me a few new ideas, and I love that. There are only a few points I would disagree with.

First, I think it's perfectly valid to travel anywhere, even long distances, by foot. You already see plenty of NPC's in the world traveling by foot. Now obviously one should be traveling at a realistic pace and not sprinting down the roads, if one is truly roleplaying.

I also don't necessarily agree that one should have to travel the roads wearing their clothing rather than armor. Yes, it would be more tedious to walk around in your armor than in just clothing, but is it really any more tedious than walking around in your clothes carrying all of your armor on your back? Not much I wouldn't think. And speaking to realism and roleplaying, I just can't agree that it makes sense to walk the roads of Skyrim with all of your armor strung over your back versus on your body. Skyrim has wolves and bandits and thieves and bears around every bend. Would you really walk out of town wearing your clothes and carrying your armor? Not a chance.

Regarding the arbitrary carry percentage, I think if you tried it you would see it works quite well. My current character is a beefy nord, which allows him the 30% carry (the most I would ever allow one of my characters). I'm currently level 27 and after you count my armor, shield and mace ... I barely have room left to carry a simple long bow and a few pieces of food (my carry weight is just 102). I already can't even carry a second set of armor, as you would allow your character. Don't get me wrong, if you prefer your system that's fine. I actually do like your idea of taking into account the bulk of items and not just the weight. But if you even try the 10%, 20% or 30% system I think you'll find out pretty quickly that it's quite limiting as it is and I never find myself carrying any sort of unrealistic load.

Anyways, just my thoughts. I mean no disrespect as I believe people should play the game however it is fun for them. d;-)

Hi BW, thanks for the comments! You're obviously correct about not really NEEDING a horse to travel long distances. As Steven Wright said "everything is walking distance if you have the time." I have the horse limitation in there for my characters because for the time period, horses and carts are the automobiles, buses, and airplanes of today. If you're in New York, and you have to get to Los Angeles, would walking occur to you as one of the options? If my guy can afford a horse or cart, he has to take it. When he passes that farmer headed to Solitude he probably shakes his head and thanks his lucky stars he can afford the transpo : )

I'm still trying all kinds of stuff with figuring out carrying capacity. The straight percentage way is a great system, but I was trying to take it a step further and figure in bulk as well. As far as I can figure, there's no real way to do this via in-game mechanics (everything's got a 3d model, but they are ridiculously proportioned!). In the end I just kind of eyeball my inventory and decide if I could realistically jam anything else into a pack that had that gear already. I also rely pretty heavily on assuming the horse is carrying a lot of my gear (I grew up with horses, so it's second nature for me to always assume I'm just packing into saddle bags).

The armor thing is straight out of Le Morte d'Arthur. I remember reading stories from it that described the knights, after meeting and deciding to test their skill, having to unpack all their armor and dress before fighting. Again, a packhorse would be the one actually carrying this gear. Leather armor and clothes would be more or less identical, especially in the cold climes of Skyrim, so maybe I'll let my char get away with that next time.

Question about the overpowered/unrealistic perks.
Would using the Block perk that slows down time during an enemy power attack be considered unrealistic? I'm thinking it is, but wanna check with others, mainly BIGwooly but also interested in what others have too say.

Well, it's what each of you feel is unrealistic in the end, since you play the game alone. Personally I don't use the time-bending perks because it feels unrealistic to me.

i'm tryng to catch up with this.

normally, i'd let all you all have at it, lol.

however, the man is a storyteller and i thank the gods for one.

well done. bigwooly.

you got even me listening. i thought my 360 roleplaying was a lost cause.

too bad journals can't hook up...

hardcore? not yet, but, we'll get there. hopefully, bethsoft wakes up and puts it in free with an update. though, i'd take it with a valid dlc.

i actually thought i couldn't refine my rules any more.
well done.

Thanks!

I find slow down perks to be somewhat realistic since it's just heightened reactions.

yea, i look at those particular perks the same way Deast.

that's what they are, in fact. and, since, a lof of the perks are mundane and it's not a system that was well done, there's not much of an alternative.

The only ones I can imagine that would be realistic, are most of the high tier perks (like Conditioning, Shadow Warrior, etc.)

yep. that's the primary reason why i start many of my DiD games at a higher level through the exploitation of helgen. i don't want to play a noob from the get go. it doesn't make sense to always play an amateur.

level what you use is great. no attributes was abysmally horrid. repetitive perks was lazy.

one of the inevitable shortcomings of leveling what you use is that you don't actually get to play as the character you pre-planned until far too late in the game. combined with the terrible difficulty system (or, should i say lack-there-of, lol) i am forced to 'gimp.'

I think the perks are fine, and the removal of attributes was awesome since honestly, attributes were one of the worst parts of Oblivion. Also, the game is pretty difficult for me, and others. So I don't see any reason to be upset about a broken difficulty system.

i won't get into a drawn out debate about this, but, lol...

ALL perks are governed by attributes. you give me any perk and i can change it through attributes.

getting rid of attributes was either lazy, stupid or greed.

attributes are foundational. they are inherent. they are the mechanics a game either has or doesn't.

attributes are a foundation to tabletop rpg's for a reason: they are what your character is. NOTHING makes up for them. you can try, and fail. the skyrim perk attempt is a failure. the level what you use is a success. the unchangeable decisions you must make at the beginning of the game is gone.

many of the perks are dim-witted and useless. the lockpicking skill as a gameplay mechanic is worthless.

specific difficulty is irrelevant. the fact that i (and MANY others) have to create our own ways to make the game difficult THROUGHOUT the game is relevant.

poor a.i. and the mechanics involved is hardly a position to cling to.

I'm wondering how to spend 300 gold with an innkeeper, rent a room, and wait six days after death. Would I make a manual save inside an inn before going out and adventuring, or what? And also, would it be breaking immersion and the challenge if very soon after Helgen I killed a bandit and took all his gear to use?

The funny thing about armor and roleplay is that basically nobody actually wore armor like is depicted in video games and hollywood. Weapons, too. Swords were A: expensive, and B: not as useful as polearms in actual battle. They were more like an officer's pistol, than the soldier's assault rifle.

Full plate armor was worn by a fraction of a percent of fighting forces, and these were the rich people who had wagons to truck in their gear, and squires to help them put it on. And they didn't travel in it either. Most soldiers wore CLOTH armor. Not chain mail, not even leather as that was still very expensive, and most soldiers were very poor.

So. Your typical soldier, mercenary, etc... was a guy basically wearing thick clothing, good boots if he could afford them, and having some type of spear, maybe a halberd or something. With probably a dagger/knife for utility and eating. If we're going off the assumption he's a more noble born guy with some wealth, then he might have some mix of mail and some leathers. But that's still adding a lot of weight. and since 99.9% of your job is moving from one place to another, the benefits aren't always worth the drawbacks... And if he used only a sword, you could expect him to die to the nearest peasant who had a spear

But I like your guys' style. Roleplay in a single player game is not my thing at all, but I do hate how watered down the ES games constantly are made. Mostly in regards to having an arrow pointing out where to go, and fast travel everywhere. So, basically, bring that back to Morrowind's level and this game would be amazing.

Okay, here's how it works. If you die you go back to your previous save which was at an inn, right? Once that save is loaded, you talk to the innkeeper and purchase 300 gold worth of food (I usually purchase the expensive wines and meads because it's easier). You then eat/drink all that you just purchased.

Now you use the 'wait' feature and you wait for 6 24hr periods. Then, you talk to the innkeeper again and rent a room. You then sleep for 24 hours and when you wake up you save. Boom. Done.

Now, I recently revised how I do this (forgot to update it here, but it's updated in my character journal which is linked in my signature). Now, if I die, I go back to the most recent save which is most likely an autosave. I'm still only allowed to manual save after sleeping in a bed or bedroll.

The advantage of this change is that it's more realistic. Because now after I die and reload that most recent save I just travel back to the nearest town and pay the 300 gold and rest and sleep for 7 days, and when I'm done all of the enemies I killed before are still dead and all of the potions I used are still gone, etc. Whereas before I was doing a lot of that all over again and it just didn't make sense.

Hope that explains it.