Heavy or light armor for an archer class?

While I'm probably different from most players as I prefer a character that is both powerful in combat, and strong in offensive magic, I would say if you're playing a PURE archer character, i.e. archery as your main offense, with say one handed for backup, light armor would be best. While most all my characters are master or close to it in archery, I have never played as an "archer" I usually use heavy armor most of the time, and, as my characters are always master of heavy armor with most of the perks, including conditioning, by the time I'm say, level 35 or so, the weight of the armor usually is not an issue. But Dagmar makes an excellent point above, vis if you are designing that type of character, then using heavy armor with all the perks, really wouldn't be true to an "archer" character.

I happen to be someone who is skilled in heavy armor, one handed, two handed, destruction and conjuration, but, I do like to use the bow a lot. (Deadric is my favorite). Just my opinion.

When I make a Pure Archer, I go without armor, and just Sneak. Why? because it's 2 perk efficient trees, a lot of them are optional, and I can max it out at below level 10 (Both skills 100.) With stealth, and evasion techniques, nothing gets close enough to threaten me, ever. (I'm using the term Pure in the sense of nothing but, not "Classic.")

A Classic Archer is indeed Light Armor, along with Sneak, and 1 handed, even. I generally call this a Hunter, or Assassin, depending on what I use them for, or do with them. If I'm wandering the Woods harvesting leather, and beating up them pesky Forwore, hunter. If I'm more urban, and killing people for money (Be it the Companions, or DBH) I generally use the Assassin's Blade as much as the Deadly Aim. Thing is, it's exactly the same build skills, whether you're RPing as a lowly Hunter, The Listener/Harbringer, or the High level hitman who killed the Emperor.

Again, if you use a Bow as your primary, or exclusive weapon, you're an archer. It may not be the classic 3rd era, or historically accurate Archer Class, but it doesn't have to be. As Dagmar so eloquently put it, it's not the Middle Ages, nor is it Middle Earth, or Morrowind/Oblivion. They don't have the rigid classes so you Have to play an Archer the classic way. You can be whatever you want, be it a Heavy Archer, if you can make it work.

I can build just about anything, just ask me. Even builds I will never play, or think would be dull, like the Capped, Enchanted level 81 Tank, I still know how to make them. Does that make me Superior? No, it's just what I do. It certainly doesn't make my builds Inferior. There's really no such thing, if you can make it work. There's no PvP here, and you can't even fight along side each other, because it's a single player game. Therefore, as long as you can win, and have fun doing it, it's no better, nor worse a build than any other.

To me, that's the beauty of this game.

That being said, here's the build you asked for advice, and help on. I would have gotten it to you sooner, but I got sidetracked justifying it's very existence. Thank you, Dagmar for helping me think it through thoroughly.

Jagdpanzer (Deutche fir "Tank Hunter.")

Skyrim Perk Calculator - Plan the perks for your Skyrim character before spending them!

Here's a basic plan for doing it: In Helgen, take the Ralof door, because that has the most Archers with arrows. Take all the bows, arrows, and Imperial Armor off the Captain. This will prime Radiant to kick down bows, arrows, and Heavy Armor. Swing by the Thief Stone (Believe it, or not, this gives a 20% bonus to Archery, and also Sneak.) Imperial comes with HA, and Archery, plus the daily power can stop combat if you need it before you're fully tankable.

Swing by Gerdur, and talk to her so you don't have to bluff, or bribe your way into Whiterun, later. Also, do the Smithing tutorial with Alvor, then deliver a letter for Faendal so he'll Train you up to 50 for free. Hunt around the area until it gets dark for Hides. Steal Alvor's Steel, under the end of his workbench, there will be noone to see you. Improve your Armor, chop some wood for your (hopefully Hunting) Bow, and save at least 1 Ingot. Then head west young lad to Lost Valley Redoubt. Don't miss an opportunity to pick up more Leather.

Clear them out. Sneak shot when you can, but just crouch long enough to get double damage. Spend the rest of your time upright. Get used to finishing them before they close, taking them 1 at a time, and bow punching to backpedal while you draw for another shot. Take all their light Armor, and Bows, even the Arrows if you're running low to Serpents Bluff, but grind up one of the Bows on the grindstone with the Nordskull on it. Keep improving Foresworn Armor, because it doesn't require a perk, just leather, and you'll never run out of either before you're done with Smithing.

Fight your way up to the Steed Stone. So much for being slowed by your Armor! Don't worry about Sabercats, just bow bash them, and keep shooting. Back up while bears are rearing, and keep shooting. By now, you should be getting Steel Ingots in random loot. That done, you can fast travel back to Riverwood, cut through Bleak Falls Barrow, and finally hit up Riverwood for the Main Quest. Companions are Optional, they don't really have much to offer you, but the daily power they confur comes through with (No Experience) rampages, disease immunity, and cross country sprinting with Bandits to feed on. (If you like, the Ring of Hircine is availible in the area with a Hunter's quest.)

Priorities are: Muffled Movement, and Conditioned. Do some Tanking to get your Heavy Armor up, and sneak shot to Deadly Aim/Silence. With Conditioned/Silence, you no longer need the Steed, and can easily walk close enough to sneak shot them at maximum range. These two perks eliminate all of the penalties for Heavy Armor, so now you should be, dare I say it, Superior to all the Lightly Armored archers in your game. I suggest Kajit for the Sneak bonus, the Claws also help when returning to cat form, with Fists of Steel to fight back out of the melee. It's not a stand-alone weapon, but it's a decent backup so you don't have to worry about a dagger, or the 1 handed skill.

At some point, switch from Foresworn to Dwarven Smithing to grind up faster. Don't carry it around, it will only weigh you down. Ebony is as high as you have to go to cap out your AR, then you can pretty much stop Smithing. Maybe clean out Lost Volskygge for a free Ebony Bow, make sure you can actually take it. (That guy's much tougher in Light Armor.) Then switch to Enchanting. You should be high enough level, as well as stealthy enough to do the Thieves' Guild up to the Nitengale Bow. Actually worth perking Arcane Enchanter to improve, it already starts Ebony Tier. Also, the Ebony mail is optional, it looks cool, you won't need the Muffle, but the Poison Cloak is handy in case you get rushed, or for Slaughterfishing, and the Shadow Effect is almost as good as Invisibility. If you enchant the Ebony Bow, I suggest Absorb Health, and Stamina, if you want an Unstoppable character. Unfortunately, that means the College if you don't want to wait for radiant to kick down both effects.

Followers; Faendal in 4sworn until Whiterun, then upgrade to Jenassa. She won't use a better bow, but you can get some use out of all that improved light armor, and she's a dervish with Dual Wield. Stay behind her. Once you get to Riften, pick up Mjoll the Lioness, and some Dwemer scrap while you're grabbing her sword. Forelhost for Rahgot, the Cursed Tribe for a full suit of Orcish to improve, and Volendrung. You shouldn't need a better Melee Tank, and there honestly isn't one. You might have to Assassinate her Ducky, and get rid of the body without her seeing, though.

Learn to read. The DPS comparison is to a character with a melee build not a character with a ranged combat build. If you compare his killspeed and damage taken to a melee character build he loses. Talking about ranged attacks are irrelevant for the purposes of analyzing the necessity of the tank build for an archer, for an archer they're largely irrelevant because of the Steady Hand perks. Dodging ranged attacks while still attacking is relatively easy. If he intends to simply take direct hits that have stagger and stun effects or obscure his vision, which is the only way a tank build will provide an advantage, it will cut down his attack rate so a tank setup and playstyle is in fact inferior in that situation. I have no idea how you play but I never stop firing arrows while moving. It isn't hard to do if you have the Ranger and Steady Hand perks.

It's effectively implied when you mention the Muffle effect. Generic Muffle enchanted boots are rare and therefore for heavy armor boots even more rare. Further they are level locked to a high level. Non-generic Muffle enchanted boots are all light armor. The perk is only a 50% effect and you need to spend a perk point just to bridge to it. If you want the 100% effect you have to spend 5 perk points to get Silence and you can't take it until you get 70 skill in Sneak. The spell Muffle is relatively useless without the Quiet Casting which requires 4 perks to achieve and 50 skill in Illusion. All of this is irrelevant to my point that a tank build is superfluous for an Archer build because going through all these motions to compensate for the noise that heavy armor makes is to emulate a playstyle where a tank build isn't necessary. It makes little to no sense to go through all these steps in a build if you're playstyle is one which doesn't even require a tank build.

There's nothing proprietary or proud about pointing out facts. Characterizing those facts as otherwise only underscores the weakness of the quasi counterarguments in your post which don't even address the actual premise. The tank build is superfluous for an Archer build. Nothing you've posted has refuted that point. It's still a chandelier in an outhouse.

This is not a DPS build, with Deadly Aim, and a Smithed/Enchanted bow, the idea is to not have to shoot them twice. One Shot, One Kill, move on.

It's not necessary, nor is it in any way detrimental. If you can have superior armor, with no less the stealth, and mobility, it is not inferior. Just different. I play exactly the same as you described, only without armor at all, but this isn't my build. It's a custom for the Original Poster. I have used something extremely similar before, though, and the final form is no different from a classical archer except more armor, and less Stamina recovery. The thing is, while the plan is to never be detected, and 1 shot everything, if that fails, you still have the extremely effective fallback of capped out armor to match your improved bow.

That's right, only I get the same effect from the Silence perk. The fact that I'm writing this effectively implies that I can read, while your continued ignoring of every answer to your every point implies that some mental block interferes with your ability to Understand what you read. In this case, I suspect it's self absorbed conceit, due to your use of word like "Inferior," and "Compensating. Look at the build, there isn't a Drop of Illusion, and Enchantment is saved for last. Why? because Armor Noise is unlikely to alert the enemy when you're only sneaking to withing range of your extremely powerful Bow.

No, of course not. Ignoring facts presented to refute your Opinion presented as Absolute Authoratative "Fact" however, is. Regardless, the build is done, I've answered the question, with some thanks to you, and I'm done with this discussion. Have fun talking to yourself, at least she'll give you the attention you so obviously need.

Light armor

Just for completeness, I thought I'd post what I play as a Pure Archer for you all to compare, and contrast. Diisk has already chosen Heavy Armor, and I'd say the Light Armor majority vote is adequately represented, so I thought I drop a solitary independent ballot for something almost completely different.

My answer: Shield. No other armor, Robes, and a Bound Bow. Ok, maybe not Pure archer, but just enough added to be extremely over-powered at the lowest possible level. How low?

Here's some recent pictures: http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1155422234460826479/6383EE8C4B3D33DCB812EAB4A29DE765115F5441/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/1155422234460827874/4AA8FB757CB849C0D569A36BB720D62EA4A8A84B/

How can this be? Skyrim Perk Calculator - Plan the perks for your Skyrim character before spending them!

Ok, now I could show you a screencap of my settings with the sprite pointed at Difficulty: <Adept> but that proves exactly diddly squat, so you'll have to take my word for it. I believe you can see my stat bars in the bottom of the first screencap, so let me explain that the half magicka signifies that he's saying that quote at the bottom before I'd recovered from casting my weapon. On Master, I might even have had to recast, but still would have survived victorious. There's no Shock Damage up there, I don't have any other spells, it's a pretty quick build, go ahead and try it.

Now, let me give you a preview of the eventual build, I'll probably have for the rematch after I take a training break, (in Forelhost for another nice piece of Armor) and fight my way through Skuldafn: Skyrim Perk Calculator - Plan the perks for your Skyrim character before spending them! You'll note I added Sneak, but there were some hidden skill levels I didn't perk at all, because I saved them for last. No Heavy Armor, as yet, because I haven't taken any hits without the shield up. The next FAQ is inevitably "Why?"

Well, the short answer is "because I can." Initially, it was because the Dev team decided not to include Bound Shield. Thing is, if you cast the Bow in your right hand, it replaces whatever's in your other (you can also do this with other things, the original was Bound Battleaxe.) so when it wears off, or you sheathe, it's instantly conjured from your inventory. This fills a gap in the bow only style when the tanks close in, and all you have is Bow Bash to defend yourself toe-to-toe. Also, durations measured in Minutes are tough to keep track of, so they can (and often do) wear off at just the perfect time to get you killed.

So, if the enemy is yonder, no biggie, I can recast, and miss a few shots. If they all up in my face, I can Block, and Bash my way out. If they Charge, or drop in right in front of me, I can bow punch, and sheathe before they recover. Even with an Iron Shield, this is a lot more protection than a Bow, and with Deadly Bash, and The Targe of the Blooded, it's a heck of a lot more damage than a Dagger. Maximum Armor Rating: 20. With the Bow out: 0. All of my melee offense, and defense in 1 item: Priceless. I chose Altmer, because they can cast the spell with a Mage Hood, Ring of Magicka, Jyrik's Amulet Fragment, or similar magicka store. (In this case, Hooded Robes of Conjuration, though it can be done with just the Atronach Stone.) A side benefit is the absolute maximum mobility to run circles around anyone, with the possible exception of Thalmor Wizards, which are a Tie.

Is it Pure? No. Inferior, or Superior? Not even. This is just how I play, because it the most fun For Me.

As you can probably tell from my name, I usually play an archer. I tink an archer is a light on his feet kind og guy so obviously Light Armor. My character is a level 50 Wood Elf with Nightingale armor and boots with Shrouded gloves and cowl. He uses a Dragonbone bow with blade of woe and mehrunes dagger for assasination and dual scimitars for combat in case things are too hard. So an Archer is usally kind of an assassin with a bow. And I usuually don't see an assassin with clunky fifty pound armor do i?

Ok, like you said, that's your definition, while I would call that more of an Assassin, because that's what you use it for. Do you use Assassin's Blade? Assassin's Armor? Assassin Tactics? To Assassinate people? For the Assassin's Cult? You jus' might be an Assassin.

You also use a Bow, which would also make you some sort of an Archer, in the broadest sense. The point is, personal definitions are just that, personal. I have no problem calling any build which uses a Bow as the primary weapon some sort of Archer. I also add other prefixes for sub-types, like Classic/Turtle/Tank/Arcane Archer. About the only opinion I protest here is "This is the only Real Archer." Like "If you use 1 handed, you aren't an Archer." or "If you don't use Light Armor, you're not an Archer." I say, if you don't use a Bow, you're not an Archer.

There are other kinds of Archers, that aren't assassins. Faendal is an Archer, but I'd call him a Hunter, or Ranger before an Assassin. Aela is an Archer (In Heavy Armor, I might add, she also uses a Shield.) Not what I'd call an Assassin. SHE ALSO HAPPENS TO BE THE MASTER TRAINER.
How about Angi? I'd personally call her an Archer. Assassin? No. Light Armor? No. Dagger, No.

And then, there's a lot of characters who use bows, I wouldn't call archers. The Housecarls, I'm leaning towards Tanks there.

Well a Bow only has one use,Kiling, and thats what I do and that's what assassins do. I'm pretty sure most archers use sneak so the basics to archery is bows and stealth so that would mean almost every archer is an assassin.

Except the top 3 archers in the game (with the possible exception of the Dragonborn.) My point is, no skill is exclusive of an Archer, and the only one exclusive to them is, obviously enough Archery. You can even be an Archer, Nightingale, Assassin, and the Dragonborn.

I Recently started a Bosmer archer and i say it doesnt REALLY matter. It depends which one you invest your points in.

Which wouldn't require a tank build therefore only supporting my point.

First of all the reference about inferiority was to a melee build with the same superior armor in terms of efficiency in open melee combat. I don't know why you're having such a hard time to understand that when it was pointed out with emphasis to you in the prior post.

Second, you can't have superior armor with no less stealth and mobility without taking steps you wouldn't have to do with light armor or no armor. If you use a Standing Stone to negate the movement penalty you deny yourself the opportunity to use another Standing Stone that could give a different advantage such as magic resistance which you can't get from either Armor skill or type. If you take perks to get Muffled Movement those are 2 perks you can't use to get other perks early on. There's a cost to it that has to be weighed against what you gain.

That leads (once again) to my prior point which is if your playstyle and build lends to killing all your opponents with your bow outside of melee range, be it because you have the stealth to do so, or the same mobility and Archery perks to do so as you would with light armor, then you don't need to wear heavy armor and invest in heavy armor perks, standing stones and other perks. It's not as if you get no protection at all from light armor and there are much simpler and less costly solutions to dealing with the damage you take in the limited situations where it happens.

You haven't answered my point. I didn't have several points. I had one. A tank build is superfluous. Nothing you've stated refutes that observation.

Again, your infantile ad hominem attacks and laughable armchair psychoanalysis only underscore the weakness of your arguments. My use of the words inferior and compensating are simply proper use of the English language in the context in which they were used regardless of any inability on your part to comprehend that fact. A tanking archer build is going to have inferior performance in open melee combat to a tanking melee fighter build in an open melee combat situation. Tanking isn't simply a build, it's a playstyle. It encompasses having a fight strategy where stealth and mobility are largely irrelevant which is why it, and the build that requires it, are counter-intuitive to ranged combat in general. Setting up straw man and red herring counterarguments does nothing to refute that observation. When you take steps to neutralize the negative effects of Heavy Armor, that is the very definition of compensating.

Girl knows her sh**. Funny pic btw. lol

Dagmar, I stopped arguing several posts ago, you can too.

Classic Archer:

Just to cover all the possibilities, here's an actual build for the typical Light Armor Archer Class:

Skills: Skyrim Perk Calculator - Plan the perks for your Skyrim character before spending them! Now, let me start by telling you this is the base, and anything around it is fine, and dandy. The bare minimum to Maximize your Damage, Mobility, and passive defense is all here. If you like, you can add 1 handed, but as Dagmar pointed out, you're most powerful outside the melee shooting in. If you stand toe to toe with a Hack&Bash, 2hand, or other heavily armored slugger, they will do more damage, faster, and soak up your hits like butterfly kisses. Not only is the bow your best weapon, in some ways it's The best offense for the vast majority of enemies. You can shoot down Dragons, Mages from outside their range, and Tanks before they reach you. In fact, their only hope is enough numbers for someone to get through, and strike you down.

Equipment: Whatever's clever, but the most Min/Maxed set I've been able to come up with is: Krosis, 1 less base armor rating than Dragonscale, and 20% more damage with every shot without Smithing, nor spending a dime. Save it for Arrows.. This will be the theme for the rest of the build. May be worn with the Ancient Shrouded Cowl, which is another 35% (put on after the Mask, don't worry if your face disappears) and the Gauntlets of the Old Gods, which is another 20% That's a grand total of 75% more damage, as long as you wear it. This requires several quests, but pull their weight, and then some with pure badassery. Keep an eye out for a Ring of Archery, hopefully Peerless, wearing all that, one should come along eventually. Since the majority of this is the Dark Brotherhood (in terms of time invested) there's no reason not to wear the (Ancient) Shrouded Boots for Muffle, and some good Body Armor. The Ancient Shrouded comes with Poison Immunity, and that doesn't suck.

There's a variety of Bows on the table, and if you don't mind adding a long, but interesting quest arc to the playthrough, you could do worse than the Nightingale Bow. Save this for later, because the longer you wait, the more it levels, up to Daedric, with 30 Frost(+Slow) and 15 Shock. You could make a better one, but only by adding a lot of grinding on the Forge, and Arcane Enchanter. Either way, until then you'll need a few to get you there, and here's some good choices. Fineral's End is gotten through the DBH, and just has Frost/slow, but Elven tier, and a solid starter. The Forsworn is Dwarven, and can be killed for at level 1. When you feel up to it, head for the NE corner of Labrynthian, go down to the door you find there, and follow it for a chance to win an Ebony Bow with arrows. (Or get shot to death with them.) Save first, this is the ultimate test for any Archer.

Crafting: The next step, after the basic build is put together is to make all your weapons/armor better. Start with Smithing, shoot game, and use the leather to Improve Foresworn Armor. You can do this all the way up to Advanced Armors, but you need to get 60, because all of your gear so far is Pre-Enchanted. Steel Smithing, and Arcane Blacksmith is good enough to set aside, and switch over to Enchanting. I hope you grabbed every soul gem you found, and enchanted a Bow with Soul Trap. For the first few levels, just keep your main bow topped off until you can make something better. As soon as you get ANYTHING of Archery, disenchant it, and start buying rings to practice on. Enchanter(1) Insightful Enchanter, then Enchanter (2-5) until you can make a decent Ring. Then think about Corpus, and a brand new Bow.

Now, make the best Matched Set you can, or improve the Worn Shrouded Armor, and Enchant that. I wish I could tell you where to get it, but Recovery is where it's at. Regenerate Stamina, or Health on anything that isn't Fortify Archery. Hopefully, your Stealth is up to Silence, so you can abandon Muffle all together. Barring those, Fortify Health, and Stamina don't suck neither, and keep an eye out for Absorb H/S weapons to destroy too. Magic Resistance wouldn't hurt. It really depends on what you find/buy first, but these are the ones you want most. Hopefully you can reach Extra Effect at some point, but I listed all of them in order of priority, starting with Fortify Archery.

There isn't much else to add. With a Bow that saps the life, and endurance of the enemy, and armor which does more damage, while healing you, the only way you can easily be killed is instantly, and there shouldn't be anything that powerful you can't Evade. I can repeat myself, and others, but you can just scroll up for tactics, and shouts. This isn't the Superior build, but to the best of my ability Optimal, based on Level, and efficient distribution of Perks:

Skyrim Perk Calculator - Plan the perks for your Skyrim character before spending them!

Guys, Diisk hasn't posted on the entire 2nd page, not sure he's even reading your argument at this point.
And to me, its obvious that an archer would use light armor. An archer isn't meant to take tons of damage while shooting his bow at close distance which is Heavy Armor advantage. When I think archer I think of someone using a bow, sneaking to a good vantage point, and shooting an enemy and get the sneak attack bonus. Then, they stand up and start shooting arrows at the other enemies they see whilst moving around to avoid being hit by enemies. You should see my Bosmer Vampire Archer on Oblivion, 100 speed. Moves like a Gazelle. But anyway, yea, Light Armor is better for the classic version of an Archer. (FYI, Medieval Archers weren't generally taking on 5 enemies alone when they did fight in battles)

Yeah, he pretty much asked, decided on Heavy Armor, and then left before I even started posting. Then, it kind of took on a life of it's own. I keep hoping he'll check back eventually, but if not, he's not the only one who can use the information.

Yeah, I miss Speed. There were plenty of different types of ye olde Archers, including ones with Heavy Armor/Shields. You're right, though, they were generally massed into at least squads on the battlefield. It's not like they never went anywhere alone, with their bows, but the Fantasy staple of the Solitary Adventurer, or 5 and under Party was rare to unique throughout history. As previously repeated, this isn't that history.

I will point out that the Original Question was "Which do you prefer?" Most of the votes are Light, 1 for Heavy (Diisk) and ATM, mine is The Targe of the Blooded. There's no reason why we can't continue the discussion based on just that. I'll probably have more votes/builds as my mood changes. Archery is one of my favorite Offensive Skills (With Spell/Sword, and Spell/Shield, magic doesn't stand alone very well.) and if you didn't notice, I have plenty of say about it.

go heavy armor without doubt. I have beat skyrim three times with different class. Heavy armor is no doubt the best for any class. light armor does nothing except making you a bit stealthier, but by the time you have 100 archery sneak attack isn't necessary and killing normal folks is easy. The real problem in skyrim are dragons esp final boss where you cannot take followers, if you go light armor, you will be raped in seconds while heavy armor is a lot more protective and weighs nothing if you have the perk. and sneak attack can be done too just a bit less sneaky. wearing light armor doesnt mean you are an archer, if you know how to kite, you will be the best archer.

^Thanks for the bump, I hadn't seen this. I don't know why most people in this thread associate archery builds with sneak*. It's very possible to be an archer without relying on sneak attack bonuses. Heavy armor + steed stone + archery is very doable without having to sneak and it's a lot more fun that spamming right trigger to bash with a melee weapon. Packing a few poisons for some tougher enemies is a small price to pay for not having to sneak everywhere and feel fragile.

Just cause you're an archer doesn't mean you have to be an assassin!

*edit: There's nothing wrong with sneak and archery, I'm not dissing assassins haha, it's a fun combination....but you don't need sneak to be an effective archer.

Well, now I wouldn't say the best for every class. In fact, Light is the best for an Archer, if only for the Wind Walker Perk. Once you reach the Armor Cap (If you're smithing that far) Light Armor has exactly the same protective value as heavy, only lighter, with less perks to max it out, and Stamina recovery instead of half off falling damage, and stagger. I was never saying that heavy Armor is the best, or even ideal for Archers, just how it could be made to work.

Woah, blast from the past, man. Far out!