PS3 First Thief: Discussion and Suggestions

[Kohlar the Unkilled]

Recent discussions of difficulty settings prompted me to create a new character, and initiate my quest on Master. I've never been a Khajiit, or a thief, so that's what I picked. Of course, I'll do things the way I see fit, but I wouldn't mind some suggestions from some of the experienced thieves out there. Note that I have completed both the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood questlines on a previous character, but I've NEVER put a single perk into sneak. This time I intend to be sneaky. There will be NO enchanting. No perks will be put into smithing. I'll use what ever weapons and armor that I'm lucky enough to find, or rich enough to afford. I'm undecided about alchemy, but am leaning against it, (just because I've always used it). Perks will go to one-handed, light armor, sneak, archery, some block, and eventually speech and lockpicking.

Here's what I've done so far:

Activated thief stone right away. Got mission to Bleakfalls, but decided to join up with the Thieves Guild first and get my armor. Did that, killed Grelod, and that's where I'm at. My next move is Bleakfalls, so I can get my thuum. I'm going to need it.

I don't want to progress much further in the Guild yet since finding out that all the nightingale stuff is leveled, and without enchanting it's some of the best stuff I'll be able to get. I want to work on my sneak and archery before joining the DB. I hadn't planned on using magic, but many utilize illusion for such a build... would or wouldn't you, and if so what perks? What else would you do, or not do?

 

[Seanu Reaves]

first quick tip- block is unecessary. And in my opinion Lockpicking perks are useless and you should try putting the perks into pickpocket.

Later when you can steal what people are wearing you can set up easier sneak kills.

As for perking into light armor, you shouldn't be taking any hits so it won't level fast enough to be worth it, and it weighs so little there isn't an encumbrance issue.

Speech is also to me kinda useless cause you don't get that much benifit unless you get mods for it (don't know your platform )

All in all I would say with stealth characters ( since this feels more like an assassin build than just a thief build) is that perking can be more important (personal preference/semi-pro tip: only need one perk point in the first perk of the sneak tree.)

 

[Nephor The Shadow Stalker]

A few suggestions cause you're on the PS3. Finish the Thieves Guild before actually doing the DB quest line. I did this once and I don't know if it's ever been fixed but I couldn't finish the TG quest line because I think I killed someone important or it was a glitch they never fixed. I don't know how you feel about leveled items but the Nightingale set is best gotten at or after 36 or you could just stick with the DB set and it'll suit you just fine. I can recommend training light armor cause you'll need those points to survive on master and you said no smithing but if you really really need to you can just go up to arcane blacksmith and upgrade your stuff a bit for a little boost. That's about it unless you want to talk about archery. Hope this helps.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

Perk the heck out of the right side of the sneak tree if you're going assassin, the left side if you're going thief. JMO

Good idea to also have one-handed on tree, but agree that block and light armor are kind of pointless since you'll not be getting hit anyhow.

Don't bother perking lockpicking (I think we all know how to pick a master lock at level 1 by this time and don't need the tree).

Pick-pocket tree can be a lot of fun if you're a thief or just like to cause trouble. I like to pick up the reverse pick-pocket and sleeping perks, just cause they're fun.

I know you didn't want to do alchemy, but that doesn't mean you can't create some invisibility potions, sneak potions or pick-pocket potions (although you can buy or find all of those).

When I'm playing a thief, I like to keep it simple (no armor with illusion and alteration - invisibility/muffle & flesh spells).

I don't bother with the nightingale, but it's great if you're not doing enchanting at all. The standard TG armor should be fine (or at least the upgraded you get).

My current thief is a Dunmer wearing mourner's clothes and hat (all black), no enchanting, but at 80 in alteration and 92 in illusion and 97 in sneak. Pick-pocket is only at about 50. Level 72. Trying to find all those gems without looking up the locations but I'm stuck at 18.

 

[Kohlar the Unkilled]

Thanks for the great advice so far! This build is alien to me in almost every way.

I must be missing something but, how will I not be getting hit? On the contrary, I've been getting hit, and was glad for my shield at the time! I can understand not getting hit down the road, but I'm LVL FIVE! On Master! I can always redistribute my block perks later on.

Nephor, I thought about arcane blacksmith, just don't know if I want to devote time to getting smithing up to 60. It doesn't mesh with my idea of who this character is. I'll just have to make due with unimproved gear. And feel free to elaborate on archery. As for alchemy Daelon, if I use it, was thinking about poison. I've never really dealt with poisoning, but I could see it's use here. Skies, the only reason I like speech is for getting rich, but I won't perk it until later, and even then not much. And you're right about this being more of an assassin, or certainly a hybrid assassin/thief. As for lockpicking, you're all correct. Don't need it, plenty of lockpicks.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

If you're a thief then poison is not really something you'll need, but, as an assassin, of course it would be helpful, especially if you use reverse-pickpocket as an assassin. I love to use a really strong poison (I make one that does 22 points of damage per second to health (or stamina or magicka) for 38 seconds - that's is usually more than sufficient to kill almost anyone) as they sleep. Nice and quiet.

As to not getting hit, I can honestly say that I don't think my Dunmer (his name is Noir Gris) has been actually hit more than a dozen times in 72 levels. He sneaks practically everywhere and goes invisible and runs whenever something bad happens. I will admit that, when he joined the DB, I was a little more worried, but I just used a lot of sniping for that (usually killing from a distance with archery), but did a lot of reverse pickpocket poisonings as well. He doesn't like to get his hands dirty so I've really only used backstab a couple of times on this build (okay, except for Heimskr - I just hate that guy! And he has to sleep sometimes - It brings me joy ).

On the other hand, I'm not playing on Master. BTW - a thief with a shield? Huh?

 

[Nephor The Shadow Stalker]

Well on your down time you can smith. You don't have to power level until you get to 60 also it helps give you a bit more levels and perks if you're really stretching yourself. Okay as for archery you'll want every perk except paralyzing shot if you're going to be using poison. If you still want it go ahead and nab it if you got the point. I like it cause it helps save up my poison and it's hilarious to watch. Critical Shot isn't completely necessary but for a little bit more damage go ahead and nab all 3. If you're in close quarters a lot only take one point in Steady Hand. I've done two and well the difference in slow mo and real time is big and it becomes more of a hindrance than asset. That's about it.

 

[Lady Redpool the Unlifer]

Well, I'm a few days late to the party it seems, but here's my input:
One Handed, Archery, and Sneak will probably end up your bread and butter, perk the hell out of sneak, grab everything you want in one-handed besides the dual wielding perks(since you've decided to use block) and pretty much everything in the archery tree is useful except for critical shot, only take one out of the three of them.
Pickpocket opens up some insane possibilities. It evens the odds quite a bit when you get into a fight and all of the enemies are trying to use their fists because you took their weapons 5 minutes ago without them even knowing.
I am SO glad that someone else uses a shield as a thief. Extra armor rating, some magic blocking, what's not to like? Think about pairing that shield with a dagger. It's quick enough that you can easily get two or sometimes three strikes on your opponent between their attacks, giving you plenty of time to get that shield back up. Plus with a shield, your light armor skill will level without you begrudging every hit so much.
Illusion is not something I've ever used heavily as a thief or as an assassin. Muffle is great early on until you can pair the muffled movement perk with a pair of muffled boots, and invisibility is always great but can be substituted with potions(or forgone because honestly, people won't be able to see you at higher levels anyways). Fury can clear a room for you, fear is a decent panic button, and calm makes backstabbing and throat slicing RIDICULOUSLY easy. I've never seen the need for it though and in all honesty it made things almost too easy. I'd pass on it.
One last thing I wanted to mention to you: you will eventually end up with more arrows than you know what to do with. Y'know what those lower level arrows are good for? Shooting walls. You shoot the wall on the opposite side of the room/cavern and NPC's will go investigate the noise, providing a cheap and easy distraction.
Hope this helped some, enjoy the world of shadows my friend!

 

[Snake Tortoise]

If you're using block does that mean you want a build that can use a bow, a dagger AND fight face to face with 1H/shield? I think that's too much and will mean you have too many skill trees needing perks at any given time. I think you'd be leveling up and finding about four skill trees at once needing that perk point

I'd consider two options- a dagger assassin who can fight with sword/shield or a dagger assassin who can use a bow. So either archery or sword/shield but both might be a bit much. With archery your dagger assassin has another option for sneak attacking but later with the higher level perks can become a warrior archer who can fight without sneaking

One handed/shield means you can fight face to face from the very start which is convenient, but sneak attacking is a bit tougher if you can't snipe from the shadows.

I'd just go dagger assassin with bow if you haven't done a sneak build before. It's a great build and while it doesn't give you options for dealing with dragons early in the game, later if you take the archery perks ranger, power shot and quick shot and beef up your defence/magic resistance you'll be fine.

 

[Kohlar the Unkilled]

I use a shield for now, but I'm pretty sure that I'll reassign any perks that I put into block. I'm just not a "I won't get hit" type build. I can't even imagine playing that way. But as my sneak gets better, a shield will become superfluous. Maybe a theif isn't for me...

 

[Kohlar the Unkilled]

If you're using block does that mean you want a build that can use a bow, a dagger AND fight face to face with 1H/shield? I think that's too much and will mean you have too many skill trees needing perks at any given time. I think you'd be leveling up and finding about four skill trees at once needing that perk point

I'd consider two options- a dagger assassin who can fight with sword/shield or a dagger assassin who can use a bow. So either archery or sword/shield but both might be a bit much. With archery your dagger assassin has another option for sneak attacking but later with the higher level perks can become a warrior archer who can fight without sneaking

One handed/shield means you can fight face to face from the very start which is convenient, but sneak attacking is a bit tougher if you can't snipe from the shadows.

I'd just go dagger assassin with bow if you haven't done a sneak build before. It's a great build and while it doesn't give you options for dealing with dragons early in the game, later if you take the archery perks ranger, power shot and quick shot and beef up your defence/magic resistance you'll be fine.

and YES, I get to the cloud district as often as you, you ASS!

 

[Lady Redpool the Unlifer]

Y'know what that shield really means? Dragons and mages aren't the crazily difficult enemies that they usually are. Y'know what that bow means? you can hit things without getting close, or you can hit things you can't reach. It's also a means of setting off traps and distracting people. It also doesn't need very heavy perk investment to be good, I say keep 'em both, and enjoy being a thief that isn't afraid to stand up and fight.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

I am still confused about a thief using a shield.

To me it doesn't make any sense. A thief with a shield? I mean, think about it.

A shield is very bulky (and heavy!). Being a thief is all about being in the shadows, quick movement and quick action.

I understand the want for better armor rating, but I still don't understand why?

You're a thief. By your very nature, you do not get in to direct confrontation (unless, of course you're one of those freaks on the road that I'm always killing or a bandit - which, to me is only in the loosest sense a thief - they're more murders who take stuff).

No one in the TG uses a shield or anything even resembling it.

Sorry - I don't mean to be incredulous, but I'm big on the RP aspect. To me, a thief with a shield is just a bandit. I can respect a good thief, but a bandit deserves nothing more than a quick death.

 

[Lady Redpool the Unlifer]

I am still confused about a thief using a shield.

To me it doesn't make any sense. A thief with a shield? I mean, think about it.

A shield is very bulky (and heavy!). Being a thief is all about being in the shadows, quick movement and quick action.

I understand the want for better armor rating, but I still don't understand why?

You're a thief. By your very nature, you do not get in to direct confrontation (unless, of course you're one of those freaks on the road that I'm always killing or a bandit - which, to me is only in the loosest sense a thief - they're more murders who take stuff).

No one in the TG uses a shield or anything even resembling it.

Sorry - I don't mean to be incredulous, but I'm big on the RP aspect. To me, a thief with a shield is just a bandit. I can respect a good thief, but a bandit deserves nothing more than a quick death.

In essence, a thief with a shield is a skirmisher. They sneak and steal and when something wants to kill them the put up their shield and fight tactically. While no in-game thieves use shields, it makes perfect sense to me that a thief WOULD use a shield, especially one who ENJOYS a good fight. A shield lets you have faster counter-attack reaction time, allows you to disarm your opponents, and even acts as an effective off hand weapon when you've become more skilled with it. All of those things fit a thief just fine.
As for the RP aspect, maybe he wasn't always a thief, maybe he used to be a soldier, or even a bandit(looking at you thrynn) and chose to walk a different path after the events at Helgen. RP is what you make of it, not necessarily fits into the game or fantasy's pre-made archetypical stereotypes.

 

[Kohlar the Unkilled]

I am still confused about a thief using a shield.

To me it doesn't make any sense. A thief with a shield? I mean, think about it.

A shield is very bulky (and heavy!). Being a thief is all about being in the shadows, quick movement and quick action.

I understand the want for better armor rating, but I still don't understand why?

You're a thief. By your very nature, you do not get in to direct confrontation (unless, of course you're one of those freaks on the road that I'm always killing or a bandit - which, to me is only in the loosest sense a thief - they're more murders who take stuff).

No one in the TG uses a shield or anything even resembling it.

Sorry - I don't mean to be incredulous, but I'm big on the RP aspect. To me, a thief with a shield is just a bandit. I can respect a good thief, but a bandit deserves nothing more than a quick death.

This character isn't yet what I would call a true thief, he's evolving in that direction. You see, he's just not good enough yet as a thief to go without his shield, but he will be. There's a process taking place with this one, and I'm really enjoying it so far.

And by all means, lets keep the discussion going!

 

[Harkin]

So it was you who stole my Wallet Kohlar!

I knew it!

I want to do a sneak build at some point, perhaps an argonian or khajit, every thief must go through the thieves guild, id probably combine sneak with necromage.

That way sneak would fit the vamps need to stay hidden.

Anyways GL kohlar, Its always cool to try an alien build completely new experiences.

 

[Kohlar the Unkilled]

It's difficult to encompass the degree of difficulty, frustration, hopelessness, and subsequent satisfaction that I experienced with this character last night. I'll share with you two versions of the story, the short version and the long.

Here's the short version: Mzinchaleft. Level 15. Master.

Now the long, if you care to read it:
You see, I'd done a few things for the TG, and joined the DB, but hadn't done any real adventuring. So equipment wise, I had my TG and DB armors, a hide shield of waning shock, (a gift from Balgruuf's personal armory), orc bow and steel sword. I met Kharjo outside of Dawnstar and agreed to retrieve his amulet because I'd like a fellow Khajiit as a follower. I really don't care for Faendal. Anyway, Frostmere Crypt contains the Pale Blade which would be a significant upgrade from my current steel. But on the way, I happened upon Mzinchaleft, the place that Mjoll sends you to retrieve her Grimsever. Even better than the Pale Blade! How hard could it be? I'll take Grimsever and use it to get me through Frostmere. Good plan.

At first it was easy, as I was picking off all the hapless bandits, sneaking around like a true thief. Then I encountered my first dwemer spheres. There were two of them, and they were too much for Faendal and I, so we died. I was able to lure them one at a time, and that worked. Barely, as even one sphere was almost too much, punching right through my shield, my sword but an irritant. By now I'm thinking, 'it takes all that Faendal and I have to kill a damn sphere, and forget about two at a time... should I just turn around now?' We pressed on, cautiously sneaking the whole time. After having not encountered more than one sphere at once, we proceed to Mzinchaleft depths.

The depths loaded and my despair deepened. Falmers?!...and the chittering call of chaurus. Not ready. Let's go. Sneaking around fearfully, one by one the Falmer fell. They proved equally dangerous as the spheres, more so as archers. I picked up a Falmer bow and sword because they were better than my own equipment, and gave Faendal a shield and waraxe for the same reason. There came a tricky spot where we had to fight a chaurus and a Falmer together. I perished several times there, but finally emerged victorious. Another spot by the first fountain, two Falmers at once, died many more times, finally pulled it off. Up the stairs to the second fountain, and I spot two more Falmers. I shot one from a distance- a Falmer Skulker?! This time there seemed no way to win. Time after time I died, eventually quitting the game for a dinner break.

I tried being as sneaky as possible, but inevitably they'd make there way over and discover us, always spotting Faendal first, so I decided to try something desperate. They had spotted Faendal, yet hadn't quite discovered me yet. So I ran. I ran past them, leaving the Faendal behind in what was sure to be a futile attempt to save myself. Up the ramp and through the door to Mzinchaleft gatehouse, the Falmer in close pursuit. The next and final room revealed a sphere, and coming to life was a Sentinel Guardian! Not stopping for a second, I ran up the stairs to the right of the Sentinel, and across some pipes to a ledge, desperately searching for Grimsever, and a way out. The Falmer had entered by then and were battling the automatons. Then Faendal entered, and within a moment the Sentinel had obliterated the Falmer, who had lain waste to the sphere. Using Faendal as a sacrificial distraction, (once again), and having to leave and reenter the room several times to avoid being fluffed up flatter than hammered plops, the Sentinel was defeated. (I should note that the Sentinel grazed me with steam once, and I've never seen a health meter reduce so quickly. I might've had 3hp left.) I retrieved Grimsever and got the hell out.

I felt like a noob again, but never, NEVER has Skyrim ever been this challenging. Never have I felt so satisfied. I could go into what happened when I met the Pale Lady in Frostmere, but that was even more humbling, (embarrassing is more like it), and I've typed enough for now.

 

[Lady Redpool the Unlifer]

Lol, I understood EXACTLY after reading the short version, and the long version didn't disappoint.
Welcome, my friend, to the life of the humble thief. We succeed through trickery and sacrifice(of others) more often than not, but do not let it discourage you!!! One day you will laugh as they all fall to your incredibly well placed blows while they search for you desperately, and are unable to locate you.

 

[Kohlar the Unkilled]

Haha, I couldn't even scratch the Pale Lady. I'd get a couple of shots in while sneaking, but she'd just fly over and freeze me with a quickness that I couldn't counter. She was obviously immune to Grimsever's frost enchantment, and quickly healed any damage I could do. After a few of the most one-sided fights I've ever experienced, I became a true thief. Sneaking as close as I could get until she discovered me, I ran up, grabbed the sword, and got the hell out of there!

One day I'll meet her again, but not yet. Not yet.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Being a Thief is perhaps my second favorite next to a Mage. Or sometimes I be a Thief Mage, but that is another story.

Once you get the hang of things, I would suggest trying to stay away from being an assassin (unless you want to end up as one) as the game will become very boring as you slit everyone's throat.

Thief is so much fun, and intense if you don't over power yourself. I personally enjoy trying to not kill everyone, and slip past undetetced and rob them all.

And in my opinion Lockpicking perks are useless and you should try putting the perks into pickpocket.

The more gold and more treasure perks are actually very good for a Thief, add in the no stone unturned reward and bandit strongholds/ruins become big heists.