Spoiler Would you consider Ulfric evil?

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Blackdoom59

BATMAN!
The civil war is a stupid idea IMHO ,since it will only dealey the downfall of Thalamor.Both of the sides are bad , I hate them both.. So I will pick the one I hate the least:cowboy:

Imperials are a bunch of cowards that truly don't give a damn about Skyrim.From the start that whore tried to cut off my head even if I did nothing.

The stormcloaks are racists(mostly) and in the the last cutscene of the civil war Ulfric says that he is the actual"bad guy".

The first time I tried the civil war I joined the stormcloacks(as I was quite unware of the situation , they seemed the good guys).So after all this I still hate both of the sides and it's hard for me to choose one.In the begaining I only choose Ralof because you get way more loot in the dungeon(Studden Imperial Armors and Heavy Imperial Armos) and can loot Gerdur's house(which is full of loot).Hadvar's crib is decent but you also get the steel/iron ingots + armor legit(instead of stealing it if you actualy want it)


Rajin that isn't Alduin in your screenshoot.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
In the scenario, you KNOW NOTHING. as in you have no clue how they treat non-Nords in Windhelm, or about the greybeards or anything, try again.

But alright lets try it this way.

If I was a Nord and knew only slightly about the Civil war, lets say I valued Honour like all Nords, then I'd side with the Empire, because Ulfric no matter his view no matter how good it seems it wouldn't feel right to serve him if you were honour bound, Ulfric swore an Oath to the Emperor and the Legion, this Civil war shows he broke his Oath, the "TRUE" Nords of Skyrim would never break an Oath they have sworn, for a Nord to give his word then break that word isn't the High King I'd want. Ulfric could of done things differently, the High King liked and respected Ulfric and if Ulfric simply asked him to go for independence he would have. You just have to speak to people around the Blue Palace, the High King respected Ulfric more than the other Jarls.
 

Docta Corvina

Well-Known Member
you forgot the 'put yourself in your character's shoes' part. basically the scenario is that you (As your character) enter Skyrim and are sent to the chopping block, despite Hadvar's protests. you have no clue where the order came from, was it just that one captain, or was it her superior, the general? Was the dragon there because of the legion, the stormcloaks, or for no other reason? without meta-gaming, you cannot answer these questions so you just have to pick. this can be just for the start if you wish, and another choice as you go along.

But, see, that's exactly what I did. And I still followed Hadvar and ended up fighting for the Imperials.

Skyrim was my very first ES game ever. I've since been playing Oblivion, but I started with Skyrim. And my spidey sense still managed to tell me that Ulfric and the other "Stormcloaks" weren't folks I particularly desired or needed to tag along with. Not to mention, Hadvar left a distinctly positive impression on me.

But that's entirely my experience. It will inevitably be different for everyone. And that's why I feel like the question at hand is itself an inevitable vicious cycle.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Again you have no basis for this claim. The book precedes the Stormcloak rebellion. Any animosity towards Ulfric in the text is based on what he did in Markarth and nothing else. The book also credits Ulfric for retaking Markarth without any assistance from the Imperial Legion. If you disclaim the veracity of a book based on the mer fact that it alleges that Ulfric executed non-combatants you're reduced to the ridiculous position of refusing to believe any book that presents any person in a bad light as "biased" against that person.

In the real world we could go out and question people and investigate on our own to independently verify things but that's not how RPG video games work so constructing arguments based on the absence of NPC verification is a fatally flawed approach that lacks merit. There would be a litany of events in the Elder Scrolls universe that we could dismiss from its lore based on nothing but sheer speculation if that were the case, but it's not and we don't. We take lore content at face value unless there's other lore content that contradicts or makes it otherwise confusing. It does happen and there are lore articles at UESP that note the contradictions and cite the sources, but citing the absence of additional supporting content is never one of them because the absurdity of the position is recognized and dismissed out of hand. If you and Raijin want to pretend that relying on the logical fallacy of an appeal to ignorance is valid support for your premise that's you're prerogative but all you're really doing then is invalidating your position.

sorry, but I am no longer discussing that book, since I determined that the book holds no relevence over my opinion of the fact that the war is stupid and if both sides want to kill each other, let them at it. You want to talk to me follow the scenario I posted, with edit of who you side with at the start, Hadvar or Ralof.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
If the Stormcloaks win, they'll be destroyed. Ulfric used the voice as a weapon against the High King and against those he faces in battle.

That disrespects the Goddess Kyne which is why the last person who used it as a weapon his entire army was destroyed as punishment by the Gods hence the Way of the Voice was created.

The only exception to this rule is the Dragonborn who bypasses this because it is a blessing given directly from Akatosh.
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
To my understanding, base on what you wrote, the Empire disowned Hammerfell like if it was no big deal.
There's nothing in my statement that implies any such thing. The point is that the Redguard resistance and the Stormcloak rebellion are in no way analogous notwithstanding the repeated flawed attempts to make such an analogy not only by you but many others as well. It's a widely held misconception but it's still incorrect. The Redguard resistance wasn't fighting for independence, it was fighting to repel the Aldmeri Dominion from occupied Hammerfell. When the Emperor renounced Hammerfell to maintain the White-Gold Concordat it became a source of further animosity between the Empire and what then became independent Hammerfell. The implication is that the Redguard resistance had hoped that the Empire would stand fast with them even if it meant violating the treaty.
So Ulfric is guilty of mass slaughtering of innocent people base on 1 person that wrote a book about it? Where are the rest of the witnesses? Wow I hate to be in your world.
There's irony in the last sentence as it displays an inability to take things in the context in which they exist. This isn't a trial. This is an assessment of fictitious events and people in a pixelated world. We don't need to take the same measures in drawing conclusions in the game. We can look at what is actually there and draw conclusions on that. From a lore perspective, that's all we can draw from which is why your premise is driving on an empty tank. If you want to create additional fanfiction for your own roleplaying purposes there's nothing wrong with that but it's totally subjective and has no merit when trying to argue about what we can objectively state about the game and its elements including characters such as Ulfric.
If thats all you have then I'm not that impressed over it, seriously.
I could care less about what impresses you. I simply make observations based on the game content while you make wildly speculative statements in a transparently biased attempt to advocate on behalf of a fictitious character.:rolleyes:
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Dagmar's anger level:

here is a link to the scenario
Read it Dagmar, and try to pick a side in the start of the game without your precious lore on the game world. In other words PLAY AS YOUR CHARACTER, NOT PLAY YOUR CHARACTER AS YOU!
 

Hargood

Defender of Helpless Kittens
Only milk drinkers would run away. Embrace yourself. Get naked and show Alduin who's the true boss of Skyrim, and the most dominating. You do realize that if you show fear it will only make things worst for you as the predator (Alduin) can smell your fears.

2488-1-1327055829.jpg


Please Tell my You don't have a Mod so you can Look at Men's Butts.:eek:
.
 

XbSuper

Active Member
Didn't read the whole thread, so if this has already been said, sorry. Read 'The bear of Markarth', and then tell me what your opinion of Ulfric is. Yes, he's an evil piece of pl*ps and should die a slow painful death.
 

azali100

Active Member
I don't like censorship, and so I have a mod that makes both men and woman naked.

I didn't take that picture by the way :) Its one of the photos from the better males on nexus skyrim :)
Since when is underwear censorship?

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Since when is underwear censorship?

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

Underwear??? I believe they call it a loincloth. I also have a sex mod in my game to increase my rping experience. Since I have no way to remove the loincloth I decided to install a nude mod. While I like the idea of wearing a loincloth... Bethesda did t give us the option to take it off. Why is that? To me that's censorship.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Didn't read the whole thread, so if this has already been said, sorry. Read 'The bear of Markarth', and then tell me what your opinion of Ulfric is. Yes, he's an evil piece of pl*ps and should die a slow painful death.

It has been discussed, and my conclusion is that the book means nothing to my choice of avoiding the war, since I have more important things to do.
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
Dagmar's anger level
Jeremius's perception of reality:

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Attributing emotional content where there is none. That's particularly funny coming from a person who constantly emotes anger and shouting with all caps and has had at least one very public meltdown on these forums. Talk about casting stones in glass houses. :rolleyes:
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Jeremius's perception of reality:

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Attributing emotional content where there is none. That's particularly funny coming from a person who constantly emotes anger and shouting with all caps and has had at least one very public meltdown on these forums. Talk about casting stones in glass houses. :rolleyes:

Why so serious? It was a joke, Dagmar, lighten up.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
When will we ever respect each others views? So what if Jeremius and I don't believe what the bear of Markarth says regarding to Ulfric. Can we stop discussing about it already? It's like beating a dead horse, and screaming at it to stand up.

Calling Jeremius delusional over an argument over a fictional book is childish and immature.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
Calling Jeremius delusional over an argument over a fictional book is childish and immature.
Coming from you that statement means almost nothing at all.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's fair game to call it a duck. There's nothing childish or immature about it.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Coming from you that statement means almost nothing at all.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's fair game to call it a duck. There's nothing childish or immature about it.

What if I told you that I was a billionaire, would that change your attitude? I would be the most popular member on this forum, If I was an actual billionaire that is :) I could dream can I? :) Anyhow I honestly don't care what you think about my post. The fact is not every agrees with your views. It truly must bother you to comprehend that doesn't it? Not everyone is drooling over the Bear of Markarth. Not everyone agrees with it.We need respect each other if we want to coexist.
 

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