Why do some People think Ulfric Stormcloak is Racist

[Docta Corvina]

The bottom line is the Dunmers and the Argonians have shelters where they can cook their food and sleep. They get the protection that is provided from the Jarl. It might not be the prettiest place to live in, but it's still cozy. They also own a pawn store, a tavern of their own, and a street vender.

Why are they complaining when they have it good? Is it because the citizens are harassing them? Guess what bullying is part of life, which is unfortunate. Perhaps they should defend themselves by standing up for what is right.

Perhaps if they had fighting drive like Gabriella from the dark brotherhood then maybe the citizens there would leave them alone.

Think someone like Rolff Stone-Fist would try to mess with someone like her? Most likely not. Fear earns respect.

I don't know why you keep insisting that we're arguing that Ulfric is carpet-bombing the Gray Quarter every night, or that we know for sure there are groups of local thugs torturing the Dunmer. I'll even let Rolff's little quip to the effect of "we have ways of making you [the Dunmer] talk" go by without much comment. Though I hardly think that he's talking an ice cream cone and a trip to Disney World. But even that aside, no one has yet argued that the Dunmer lack residences or businesses. The fact that you keep bringing it up only means that there's nothing else even remotely positive to be said about the situation. The bottom line is that Ulfric has maintained a policy of racial segregation. End of. It doesn't weigh with everyone the same way who plays this game, obviously. And just because one is a Stormcloak doesn't mean they have to make excuses for it or try to minimize it to the point of dismissal. It seems to me that even some of Ulfric's own people in the game would be inclined to argue against its necessity. As Dagmar has repeatedly pointed out, it's not the Empire's biggest selling point nor the Stormcloaks' worst point, really.

The Dunmer have what they are allowed to have in Windhelm. That means a home in the ghetto. That's really the sense of it. They aren't picking up and moving for different reasons, including lack of funds as well as the fact that family is either in Windhelm as well or otherwise in a place that would be difficult to reach should they return to Morrowind - which still isn't exactly all that it used to be since the eruption. All of these are things confirmed by NPCs and easily observable.

And I should say, you've brought up the point about "fighting back" before. And once again, I have to ponder your seriousness. Forget what the Dunmer have now - I really don't think that "fighting back", especially in the present climate in Windhelm, would get them very far. Quite possibly, a few steps backward. I'd like to see just how long it'd take for there to be a mass expulsion or worse at the hands of already very insular, very bitter Nord residents. This is why Brunwulf is a godsend. He is a necessity and I'm thrilled that a character like him was included. And when he becomes Jarl, things begin to change without civil chaos on the part of the residents - at least not any that Beth has so far seen fit to show us. It goes to show that changes, like rescinding of racial policies and even more subtle and gradual changes, could occur there. Ulfric, it seems, just didn't choose to care. And I mean even way back before he started beating the war drums.

 

[feliciano182]

Lemme help you out there kind sir.

Stormcloak logic!

Don't like it ? HELP THE THALMOR TAKE YOUR LAND !

Ahhhhh there we are. Much better

Fixed

 

[Docta Corvina]

Why do you think nobody messes with Niranye anymore? Because she can seriously put the hurt on someone... even to the point of putting them away behind bars for life.

I forgot to address this earlier...and I realize you may be joking with it, but still...

Again with the Niranye stuff? That lady has at least Thieves Guild connections, and who knows what else. When I read your post about her here, it makes me think of the old Mob days of the '20s and '30s. I mean, if only the Dunmer would just suck it up and pay some protection money. That rascally Rolff would never bother them again!

Well, yeah. Maybe. But...that would involve making said "connections". Shady, extra-legal ones, as suggested heavily by the Thieves Guild brand. The point is the Dunmer shouldn't have to go that route just to be afforded equality and freedom from such harassment.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

Fear is fear, respect is respect.

You seriously think people like the Contras or Pol Pot were respected?

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

The bottom line is the Dunmers and the Argonians have shelters where they can cook their food and sleep. They get the protection that is provided from the Jarl. It might not be the prettiest place to live in, but it's still cozy. They also own a pawn store, a tavern of their own, and a street vender.

You realize this is like saying Hitler's undesirables had nothing to complain about because despite living in impoverished ghettos where martial law was executed they had shelter, places to sleep and food. When in fact shelter consisted of filthy and overcrowded tenements (especially akin to Argonians here) and food amounted to so little even the luckiest were still in poverty.

The fact is Ulfric is clearly aware of what's going on in The Gray Quarter and does nothing to change the laws, the Dunmer aren't complaining about inadequate living conditions (which, they have every right to complain over) as much as they're complaining about the segregation laws Ulfric refuses to rescind. And no, the Dunmer get very little protection from Ulfric aside from being able to live inside the city walls. While the Argonians even less considering they aren't even allowed in the city.

Why are they complaining when they have it good? Is it because the citizens are harassing them? Guess what bullying is part of life, which is unfortunate.

They don't have it good, and this isn't an elementary school. Nobody should have to put up with racial discrimination.

Perhaps they should defend themselves by standing up for what is right.

First you banter for pages over the fact that one of the Dark Elves' has Imperial Armor, saying "He's fighting against Ulfric! This is proof!" Then you're turning it around here and acting like the Dark Elves are being pushovers.

Perhaps if they had fighting drive like Gabriella from the dark brotherhood then maybe the citizens there would leave them alone.

Right, because solving violence and intolerance with violence and intolerance will really help.

Think someone like Rolff Stone-Fist would try to mess with someone like her? Most likely not. Fear earns respect.

If someone is afraid of someone, that's fear, not respect.

 

[The Phoenician]

Windhelm is such a cesspool Ulfric has to be delusional and or power hungry. To think that he should be the High King of Skyrim when he can't keep his own house in order.

 

[Kathrek]

Well I think the dark elves made their own bed in this one think about the ones in riften they were refugees to but they did not sit in slums cause they weren't given that option it was either get a job or move on so they became traders and worked at the temple ever hear racism of them their no cause they became productive members of riften
how ever in windhelm they were given a refugee quarter of the city and nothing expected of them so they just sit around in the grey quarter no wonder the nords in windhelm don't like them how ever the argonians decided to work the docks and the 2 most respective clans treat their argonian workers like members of their family well most of them do so the dark elves made their own bed refugees or not.

 

[Haru17]

The dunmer live and work in Windhelm, some own shops, farms, and a bar. Saying otherwise is just ignorance and adopting the nord's racism as your own.

 

[feliciano182]

The dunmer live and work in Windhelm, some own shops, farms, and a bar. Saying otherwise is just ignorance and adopting the nord's racism as your own.

What ?!

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

What ?!

He's right feliciano. Some of them even employ Nords! (Gasp)

 

[feliciano182]

He's right feliciano. Some of them even employ Nords! (Gasp)

Apart from being completely wrong, dunmers live in evidently worse conditions in comparison to the nord population, what the hell does "adopting the nords' racism as your own" even mean ?

 

[DrunkenMage]

I like the fact the Imperial Legion has a Dunmer Legate.

UESP just mentions this.

'Because of its proximity to Morrowind, Windhelm also contains a sizable population of Dark Elves, who sought refuge in Skyrim after the eruption of Red Mountain. The Dark Elves are confined to a cramped slum below the rest of Windhelm called the Gray Quarter. The elves are not violently persecuted, but the local Nords are suspicious and outwardly xenophobic, and Ulfric Stormcloak turns a blind eye to their plight.'

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

It's not false. Sadri's Used Wares, New Genisis Corner Club, and Hlaalu Farm are all Dunmer owned. Ignoring these in-game facts is exactly what he meant by "adopting the Nords racism".

 

[feliciano182]

It's not false. Sadri's Used Wares, New Genisis Corner Club, and Hlaalu Farm are all Dunmer owned. Ignoring these in-game facts is exactly what he meant by "adopting the Nords racism".

Nobody has ignored that, and none of that does away with the poor living conditions of the dunmer, their requests for better services, the denial for protection from bandits and pillagers and the harrassment from nord citizens.

And I'm not even talking about the argonians, which aren't even allowed within the city.

 

[Haru17]

Nobody has ignored that, and none of that does away with the poor living conditions of the dunmer, their requests for better services, the denial for protection from bandits and pillagers and the harrassment from nord citizens.

And I'm not even talking about the argonians, which aren't even allowed within the city.

I'm not saying that they're doing well, I'm saying that they are hard working poor. Furthermore, I was replying to this guy, not you.

Well I think the dark elves made their own bed in this one think about the ones in riften they were refugees to but they did not sit in slums cause they weren't given that option it was either get a job or move on so they became traders and worked at the temple ever hear racism of them their no cause they became productive members of riften.
how ever in windhelm they were given a refugee quarter of the city and nothing expected of them so they just sit around in the grey quarter no wonder the nords in windhelm don't like them how ever the argonians decided to work the docks and the 2 most respective clans treat their argonian workers like members of their family well most of them do so the dark elves made their own bed refugees or not.

I was disagreeing with the bolded parts. This guy was saying that the nords gave the dunmer a quarter of the city and the dunmer just sit around it all day, doing nothing. Obviously that's not true, the dunmer work and farm hard as well as endure the nord's ungrounded racism. It's like American hatred toward Mexican immigrants in that it's not rooted in fact, but rather racism.

 

[feliciano182]

I'm not saying that they're doing well, I'm saying that they are hard working poor. Furthermore, I was replying to this guy, not you.

Well, I was asking what your post was really all about.

 

[Haru17]

Well, I was asking what your post was really all about.

I'm trying to explain, not to be rude. I explained my first post in my second.

I was disagreeing with the bolded parts. This guy was saying that the nords gave the dunmer a quarter of the city and the dunmer just sit around it all day, doing nothing. Obviously that's not true, the dunmer work and farm hard as well as endure the nord's ungrounded racism. It's like American hatred toward Mexican immigrants in that it's not rooted in fact, but rather racism.

The guy I quoted was saying racist things against dunmer, thus adopting the nord's racism as his own.

 

[Weismann]

Ulfric Stormcloak is hot...until he opens his mouth. That's when I just wanna beat his pretty face to a bloody pulp.

I'll have to disagree with you there, although you were close. I mean, come on, that voice is just plain sexy. Granted, the filth he's spewing with it will induce face beating urges, but still, don't knock that voice.

 

[ShangTsung]

Well I think the dark elves made their own bed in this one think about the ones in riften they were refugees to but they did not sit in slums cause they weren't given that option it was either get a job or move on so they became traders and worked at the temple ever hear racism of them their no cause they became productive members of riften
how ever in windhelm they were given a refugee quarter of the city and nothing expected of them so they just sit around in the grey quarter no wonder the nords in windhelm don't like them how ever the argonians decided to work the docks and the 2 most respective clans treat their argonian workers like members of their family well most of them do so the dark elves made their own bed refugees or not.

true.

 

[Lak'izur]

Anyone here who actually read or listen to Ulfric? He said that he didnt want the high king to be some weakling.