Why do People love Paarthunax? You know he was meant to die right?

[Jader]

The Blades are basically useless now..outlawed(more or less) by the Empire,hunted by the Thalmor,and once the DB dies,without purpose.I'd take the chance of learning mastery of the Voice from 4 masters,and the potential to learn millennia worth of knowledge from one who lived it,over working as basically a lackey to an arrogant and annoying Delphine and a crazy,broken old man Esbern.

Honestly, I'm not going into the Nazi thing.That's part of MY family history as well as growing up learning more than what is allowed to be taught in schools

 

[Dagmar]

Exterminated thousands of humans... taught me how to meditate. Lets party!

Epic Godwin Fail

The Dragons didn't "exterminate" thousands of humans. They killed thousands of humans during the Dragon War, which as the name implies occurred during acts of warfare between the Dragons and humans. You may as well say that the humans "exterminated" Dragons or thousands of Aldmer during the Merethic Era and vice versa. Paarthurnax didn't just teach you to meditate, he helped mankind turn the tide of the Dragon War by allying with the humans and teaching the Nords Thu'um, including the three Nord Heroes that help you defeat Alduin, the same Nord Heros who defeated Alduin in the Dragon War.

 

[LotusEater]

The Blades are basically useless now..outlawed(more or less) by the Empire,hunted by the Thalmor,and once the DB dies,without purpose.I'd take the chance of learning mastery of the Voice from 4 masters,and the potential to learn millennia worth of knowledge from one who lived it,over working as basically a lackey to an arrogant and annoying Delphine and a crazy,broken old man Esbern.

Honestly, I'm not going into the Nazi thing.That's part of MY family history as well as growing up learning more than what is allowed to be taught in schools

It's part of almost everyone's family history...

I'm not going any further with this. I've made my point here as I have in other threads. There are a few here that have this irrational need to protect Paarth and you are one of em. I getting out of the discussion before things get creepy weird again.

 

[LotusEater]

Exterminated thousands of humans... taught me how to meditate. Lets party!

Epic Godwin Fail

The Dragons didn't "exterminate" thousands of humans. They killed thousands of humans during the Dragon War, which as the name implies occurred during acts of warfare between the Dragons and humans. You may as well say that the humans "exterminated" Dragons or thousands of Aldmer during the Merethic Era and vice versa. Paarthurnax didn't just teach you to meditate, he helped mankind turn the tide of the Dragon War by allying with the humans and teaching the Nords Thu'um, including the three Nord Heroes that help you defeat Alduin, the same Nord Heros who defeated Alduin in the Dragon War.

Whatever... Atrocities toward mankind. End of story.

 

[Jader]

Irrational is killing Paarthurnax for what he MIGHT do,meaning there's a possibility he might not,but sure..let's kill him anyway..honestly I've yet to see your point.. the same situation could be applied to your char.their dangerous so they might as well be killed for what they MIGHT do.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

Irrational is killing Paarthurnax for what he MIGHT do,meaning there's a possibility he might not,but sure..let's kill him anyway..honestly I've yet to see your point.. the same situation could be applied to your char.their dangerous so they might as well be killed for what they MIGHT do.

To be honest I have one character that's a total sheep and basically does everything he's told, never commits a crime, never questions anything and believes what he's told, not to mention helping everybody and being an overall good guy: then I have a character that is very independent, cynical and doesn't trust anyone. Can you guess which one killed Paarthy?

It truly is all about perspective as is everything else in game, in life and in the universe. It's a great big universe and there is much out there that we cannot possible comprehend.

As my grandpa used to say: "Don't judge, you may not have all the information you need to make a wise choice."

 

[Dagmar]

There are a few here that have this irrational need to protect Paarth and you are one of em.

No, there is only your irrational need to engage in Godwinism by ignoring and distorting the lore.

Whatever... Atrocities toward mankind. End of story.

There are equally vague references of war atrocities by both the Stormcloaks and the Imperial Legion. That doesn't equate either side to being Nazis anymore than the My Lai village massacre made the United States armed forces during the Vietnam War Nazis. Atrocities are committed in every war. In that sense the very act of war is an act of defeat for humanity, and it's why pacifists point out there is no true jus bellum. I can appreciate how person of narrow mindset might fail to comprehend the not so subtle difference though. After all the term Godwinning wouldn't exist if the mindset wasn't so common on the internet.

"The cruel reality of war is that there is no return home. No return to innocence. What is lost, is lost forever."

 

[Jader]

Exactly Daelon.Some people only want to see the potential bad or good instead of both.It's honestly sad how ignorant people can be.

And as I know lotus will confront me on it,I'll make it clear.I acknowledge the bad he could do but I like taking the bigger picture,which is both possibilities.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

Exterminated thousands of humans... taught me how to meditate. Lets party!

Paarthurnax didn't just teach you how to meditate, in Nordic legend he was sent by Kyne herself to gift mankind with the Thu'um and help bring an end to Alduin's rule in the Merethic Era. He's spent thousands of years meditating in isolation, and in all those years never made an advance on mankind. Comparing him to Aumeier Hans isn't a valid analogy when you consider the fact that Hans denied ever killing anybody at his trial, and he never confessed or showed responsibility for his actions before he was hanged.

As said earlier, Paarthurnax's true intentions are unbeknownst to the player.

 

[Mr Forz]

So.. First, Dragons are naturally made to dominate and for them adopting a different mindset is much more complicated than us, decisions, all that, their very names describe what they're representing. You'd be blaming anti-infantry weapons for what they're supposed to do?

-Second, Alduin's tyranny was absolute, you ever miraculously changed your mind, you were on your own, there were no other way really and that's clearly discouraging.

-Third, the 'atrocities' was during a War, the Dragon War, you wouldn't expect deaths from that? Does it mean that Ysgramor himself deserved to die for his slaughter toward the elven kind?

-Fourth, imagine the enormous amount of 'atrocities' that would be caused to mankind if Paarthurnax didn't help in overthrowing Alduin AND helping you preventing another disaster.

-Fifth, the meditation, aaaah, regret. For someone named Ambition Tyranny Cruelty to actually stop doing what he was meant to do, it might be wrong for himself too, he doesn't even hide his feelings, being tempted to return to his true self every freaking day, and so far he hasn't done anything bad after the Dragon War which means that he either truly changed, or needed Alduin to be off the map.

-Sixth, the Blades. The Greybeards accepted to embrace some changements as the Dragonborn is an exception to all the rules. The remaining Blades are little more than self-righteous barbarians looking for a revenge, but hey they protect Tamriel, right? So everything they say must be absolute. If you really think that way then you're barely at the level of the dullest of the Thalmor. We're born guilty by default.

To finish, even with all the stuff turning around the Old One, nobody will ever know if one day he'll return to his former self or continue with his promise. But for the moment, he doesn't mind that you slaughter dragons, feast on their souls and make entire bridges and buildings with their bones. I only hope the Dragonborn is a Vampire. For my part I don't mind spending a couple of hundreds of years sitting on a mountain just to check in.

 

[Wildroses]

I take serious issue with the statement that Bethesda mean for the player to kill Paarthurnax. Bethesda went to a lot of trouble to create a world in which the choices of the player were not clear cut or morally unambiguous. The choice between your two mentors who have helped you a lot in the main quest line is not clear, and not meant to be.

If anything, I'd argue Bethesda mean for you to not kill Paarthurnax based on the Epilogue. If Paarthurnax lives, you get a long conversation with him about his regret over his brother despite knowing Alduin had to go and his plans for the future, and a conversation with the Greybeards about how your future and power is in our hands now. If you kill Paarthurnax, all you get is some dragons flying around and the Greybeards refuse to speak to you. Bethesda put a hell of a lot more effort into the Epilogue in which Paarthurnax lives. Why would they do that if they assumed the majority of players would kill Paarthurnax? If he was meant to die, wouldn't they have made the Paarthurnax-less epilogue a bit more impressive?

 

[tx12001]

I take serious issue with the statement that Bethesda mean for the player to kill Paarthurnax. Bethesda went to a lot of trouble to create a world in which the choices of the player were not clear cut or morally unambiguous. The choice between your two mentors who have helped you a lot in the main quest line is not clear, and not meant to be.

If anything, I'd argue Bethesda mean for you to not kill Paarthurnax based on the Epilogue. If Paarthurnax lives, you get a long conversation with him about his regret over his brother despite knowing Alduin had to go and his plans for the future, and a conversation with the Greybeards about how your future and power is in our hands now. If you kill Paarthurnax, all you get is some dragons flying around and the Greybeards refuse to speak to you. Bethesda put a hell of a lot more effort into the Epilogue in which Paarthurnax lives. Why would they do that if they assumed the majority of players would kill Paarthurnax? If he was meant to die, wouldn't they have made the Paarthurnax-less epilogue a bit more impressive?

since when is delphine or esben your mentor, they are a bunch of savages and are the only reason the thalmor attack you so often, at the end you should have been given the choice to kill them instead as they are not true blades, a true blade would repect the dragonborns position and bbow before him instead of giving him orders, they are supposed to serve h not the other way around

 

[Wildroses]

Well, I actually picked the word mentor because it stuck in my craw a lot less than 'people who helped the Dragonborn.'

I helped Delphine and Esbern get back Sky Haven Temple and saved Esbern from the Thalmor. In return, they confirmed dragons were coming back to life and there was a word I could use against Alduin (which Paarthunax was way more helpful about learning). Oh yes, and Delphine also sent me to the Thalmor Embassy on a wild goose chase because she couldn't overcome her prejudice, completely ruining the life of a servant while she was at it. A very powerful and vengeful organisation now hates me as a result of that quest. Thank you so much for your help, Delphine!

 

[Jader]

I partially agree with what you're saying, Tx.I agree that there should have been a choice to finish off "The Blades" but I don't agree that they should bow to you.Command comes with experience, something Delphine and Esbern have.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Wildroses meant Delphine and Paarthurnax(greybeards too by default) being the mentors.

 

[jarif]

Roleplay.
Just you roleplay with the dragon that's meant to be your master, one in awhile you go up the mountain and fus ro dah him.

 

[tx12001]

I partially agree with what you're saying, Tx.I agree that there should have been a choice to finish off "The Blades" but I don't agree that they should bow to you.Command comes with experience, something Delphine and Esbern have.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Wildroses meant Delphine and Paarthurnax(greybeards too by default) being the mentors.

do you think the blades of the 3rd era ever tried to issue martin orders?, look what happened when the dragonguard met Reman Cyrodiil, they bowed before his power, they pleged their allegiance to you not the other way around

 

[tx12001]

I partially agree with what you're saying, Tx.I agree that there should have been a choice to finish off "The Blades" but I don't agree that they should bow to you.Command comes with experience, something Delphine and Esbern have.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Wildroses meant Delphine and Paarthurnax(greybeards too by default) being the mentors.

also it is the blades fault the thalmor hate you, you had no beef with them until delphine tried to pull you to her side by making her enemies your enemies

 

[Jader]

I had plenty of reason to hate them as well. An Embassy full of dead Thalmor show that.

 

[tx12001]

I had plenty of reason to hate them as well. An Embassy full of dead Thalmor show that.

but who would you rather have as an ally, the powerful aldmeri dominion whose power is enough to challenge the imperial empire or 2 washed up criminals, yes delphine and esbern are criminals, they are going against the white gold concordat that demanded the extermination of the blades

 

[Jader]

I hate the Dominion with a passion,so as far as I'm concerned, it makes little difference if I side with "The Blades" or not.I'll still headhunt Thalmor.