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Discussion in 'Dawnguard' started by MadeMocha, Jun 27, 2012.
what was the werewolf DLC thing you were talking about?
If you are referencing werewolf lore then you also have to consider vampire lore which is just awesome. I mean if you have watched True Blood you know what I'm talking about. Vampires dominate werewolves in that show basically because the werewolves in that suck but if you think about the powers they have they could easily kill a lycan. EASILY!
In my opinion, being a werewolf in Skyrim is better than being a vamp, I tried the VL power but I didn't have as much fun. Being a werewolf lets you run into the fight and just attack, while the vamps kind of hang back a bit more. If your choosing the VL side because of the one day transformation and few minuet wait to revert forms, just get the ring of Hircine and use the wait system.
These conflicts remind me of the Underworld trilogy. Anyway its the classic Vampire VS Werewolf debate, cant wait to join in on this
To be honest, both sides have their strengths and weaknesses. Vampire Lords can use blood magic and deal quite a bit of damage and regain some of that damage as health. They can also paralyze and raise the dead, not to mention summon gargoyles <---my favorite. Werewolves on the other hand go straight in with a massive damage sprint attack that causes most enemies to ragdoll, as well as Werewolves can feed of the dead to gain health and some more time in beast form. They also get a howl and depending on the totem they have, depends on what kind. They may be able to summon 2 other werewolves with this howl.
Personally I like them both and I find them both equally powerful, and I admit I never find myself dying as a VL because of the blood magic that lets you regain magicka, and I never run out of magicka with my huge 200%+ regens and 400 some magicka, and this is on a warrior character. If I can transform as a werewolf and start killing I never seem to die because of the health you get off feeding, and that Howl of Terror is OP, especially when you can howl during feed to cut out the animation for quick feeds and still get the health and time.
Bottom Line: They both are powerful, and both have strengths and weaknesses, it depends on what you think is more powerful. Personally, I lean toward Werewolves being more powerful, especially if they get up-close with the VL, I dont think the VL would stand much of a chance, especially if there is 3 werewolves, although VL can use Corpse Curse and his Vampiric Grip. Werewolf might not stand much of a chance if the VL can keep them at range, but VL has some close-range capabilities against those stubborn attackers that keep getting close to the VL.
Vampire Lords and Werewolves are both powerful, I will just lean in the neutral zone on which one is more powerful because they both are awesome. I lean toward the Werewolves more though, a added bonus is that Hircine created the disease that makes you a werewolf . And Hircine is my favorite Daedric Prince
But dont get me wrong, I like Vampire Lords almost as much as Werewolves. To be honest I would love to see a huge skyrim battle of the Vampires and Werewolves fighting each other, not just small encounters in the wilderness, but huge open areas with Vampires fighting the Werewolves. Why didnt Bethesda think of that
Ow is it that you get three warewolves and we only get 1 VL. Of course if you get a 3v1 the WW would win but this is a 1v1 fight. I know it is part of the game but this is 1v1 and that's how it stays. And I think we can all agree that 1v1 the VL would destroy the warewolf.
Werewolves all the way!
I favor no sides, but both are even in fighting. Werewolves have all the physical advantages advantages, so as long as a VL keeps its distance and uses magic the fight will be over quick. Within casting spells, your always in 3rd person as a VL so it may be difficult to hit any enemy if your use to 1st person. Though the werewolf is fast, it wouldn't be smart to charge strait toward a VL or else you won't have the health to continue, walking and moving in different directions as a werewolf would get you close enough to do major damage against a VL. As the special powers of each side goes, a werewolf would need to call upon his fellow wolves or werewolves in order to counteract any thing that the vampire controls such as gargoyles (great show), undead, or victims. Close to death a high level VL could turn into a cloud of mist in which it is used to escape a fight but could be use to gain distance from an enemy, attempts to drain the life from a well fit or fast attacking enemy may prove fatal (especially mages and necromancers). A werewolf must feed in order to gain health ( hope you brought bodies to the fight). Over all the fight could go either way if caution is taken, but the Vl has an advantage of transforming from VL to human (elf,orc, kajit, or argonian) which is very useful for healing. Werewolves may transform into beast form anytime if the have the ring of Hurcine only if you didn't not killed Savior, but you must wait to change back to normal + the ring must be equipped each time ( don't forget it). Experience may differ since many may be tired of killing everyone as a werewolf though find being a vampire still has it's limitations.
It was agreed upon that its just transformed form so there isn't need to get into transforming back. And the close to death situation doesn't work well for the VL because that means the WW is there and attacking when you either need to burn bats fast and hope the WW doesnt close too fast or try to speedily use mist form since I doubt a VL would have mist form on from the start. That is the WW's biggest advantage that they don't need to change spells during the fight cause in a PvP situation opening a menu isn't gunna stop the combat and therefore WW is still chewing on the VL while it tries to get the right power or spell from the favorites menu
@^: I see your point about the menu thing, but pvp isn't going to happen for a long time, if at all. When it comes to taking out enemies in-game, the VL takes the cake. With poison talons, night cloak, and the ring of the beast, the VL melee damage can do some serious damage, while restoring all it's health after every kill if you have good timing, and if it somehow gets overwhelmed, it can summon gargoyles for support, restore health using vampiric drain, then get back in the fight. When taking out bosses or large enemies, the VL can paralyze them making them about as threatening as a kitten. I just don't see how the werewolf can even compete with the vampire lord.
Eh gargs are a one hit kill for a WW. and if the vamp lord is brain dead for fighting a WW then he can attack at WW with claws and lose real fast. And depending on the totem gargs are just a silly little thing that takes care of itself. Howl of terror scares them off with the totem no problem and totem of brotherhood is either gunna deal with them or distract them. I does all come down to opinion at this point but as most of the thread was talking in a PvP situation VL loses a lot more than some of the VL users are gunna wanna hear. Because you start with raise dead most of the time if you just transformed and bats. That menu just gets the VL killed just about every time.
REEAAADDD MY FANFIC
I can agree to the werewolf being the victor in a PvP fight, but as the story goes it splits the usefulness of the two. The VL is best to us against large enemies like giant, mammoths, and dragons since it is better to attack them from a distance that go at them up close as we all have learned when we got to Whiterun. smaller enemies are overkill for either of the two if not too overwhelmed.
Skyrim needs more bloody potatoes I say! I have said it a thousand times before and I have will say it a thousand more. Skyrim needs more potatoes.
All I can say is VL only have the advantage over WW in the realm of fighting dragons (damn things never like to land around me when I'm a WW) cause giants and mammoths are a single running lunge from death when my WW is running across the plains for LULZ.
After reading all what was posted in here, not sure if i missed any, but not even one person mentioned "Supernatural Reflexes" for the Vampire Lord.
Three Major counters Werewolf fans posted against Vampire fans:
1- Being Terror Howl.
2- Being the use of menu.
3- Being the 2 werewolves summon.
For the first one, as far as I know it should have a specific radius to work, outside that radius it won't work. If the Vampire Lord was dumb enough to get caught in it, he is dead meat unless he survives the 60 sec hack and slash which i doubt he can.
For the second one, you can map your menu to your numerals on your Keyboard if you are using PC, so it shouldn't be a problem. For console, they either should imitate the circular spells selection menu in Oblivion or just stick to PC.
For the third one, you forgot that the more enemies attacking you, the more you drain health. If you played a Vampire Lord right before you get to kill the Lord that has the bow, you fight a swarm of enemies attacking you. My vampire wasn't maxed back then and tanked them out because of the massive health drain. Lots of kiting though. Another point is that the summoned werewolves are NOT equal to you, they are a much weaker form of you if I'm not mistaken, not to mention they won't use any skills other than slashing their enemies.
I won't go into a Vampire vs Werewolf scenario because the Supernatural Reflex could be groundbreaking, especially if followed by grip + paralysis.
The nice thing about the Vampire Lords is that they got so much utilities at their hand, in PvE you can kill ranged enemies easily, and in case you got swarmed with enemies you can use Mist Form to Escape. Where werewolf is very much vulnerable to 3-4 spell casters, especially on Master Level. I loved my Orc Warrior when he was a werewolf, but as a Vampire Lord I got an arsenal of spells and tricks to use.
Supernatural reflexes was brought up on a different thread. And yes it would be a ground breaking thing if it worked. In theory. But in game supernatural reflexes speeds you up and slows the computer AI controlled enemies down. I don't think they would have it bog down a player controlled character. And the howl of terror is a radial move but it has a rather large radius. plus you can sprint in to get in range if out of range (sprinting to say the left or right instead of straight on. It makes it harder to hit just slightly not much but it can be enough.) With menus we were talking about console I do believe which would mean bringing up the favorites menu. Now in a PC situation yes mapping the spells would help. We already talked about corpse curse and I do believe the coding of it showed that it gets resisted but that might be on the other thread. As for the PvE situation both have incredible skill for just killing everything around them. WW isn't too vunerable against spellcasters as you would believe. Just gotta move the right way. Spells like ice storm or fireball have travel time and can be sidestepped rather easy until you are next to them and then its just about timing on the attacks. And if they are using lighting which travels a lot faster then you just tough it through a spell or two and lunge. or howl for fear and just go about eating them. Most WW players I feel will argue that the summoning of two WW is a better howl but they don't see the utility of fear. Whats easier? fighting a 2 or 3 vs 3 or fighting 1 vs a bunch of people that are just running around not attacking? But in the end I play both depending on characters. VL only gets more playtime because the sneak bonus (I like walking in front of people and not being detected. I find it funny.)
For the Supernatural reflexes, it can be easily fixed for a pvp scenario, either giving the person a speed buff, or giving all enemies around a slow buff, however to be more accurate, they should speed the vampire and slow debuff the enemies.
The thing is, if you want to make a true pvp playable game, the devs will have to keep nerfing and buffing skills till both races are equally balanced. Like you can't keep fearing people for 60 seconds, or throwing people around all the time. There will have to be diminishing returns. So in here we are just assuming what we have in game and going with it.
For the PvE scenario, I specifically said 3-4 casters, you might be able to dodge one, but you will be hit with couple of spells some of which will seriously hurt. I remember one time when my Orc warrior was still kind of low level, and entered a necromancers cove (on master level). One of the necromancers was high level and 3 shot me with his ice lance spell. Not to mention they were at least 3 there. I had to retry as a WW 6 to 7 tries until one time I barely made it. However, as a Vampire Lord I have no problems against spell casters what so ever, not even their ward works against the blood magic. Frost spells almost do no damage, and fire spells hurt me, but nothing that can't be healed.
Another groundbreaking decision between Vamp and Werewolf is the ability to transform as many times per day. If a werewolf had that I would have considered keeping it instead of turning into a Vampire Lord. But they are limited to that as well as a certain time before you turn back human, unless you kill and feed something, which means if you are waiting for a dragon to land, it can be bad news for you.
New additions - dragon aspect and werewolf rings in dragonborn