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Star Gazer

Well-Known Member
Okay gotta state this once. A. werwolves rely on an aoe howl (I prefer terror with the upgrade. Haven't had anything resist it yet but once I max out overall lvl we will see) and don't need to change it in battle. The VL does need to change things around and in a PvP setting the game don't pause for you to change your spell. So say you have detect life on RB and summon garg and drain life in your hands. A WW just howls and even if you resist you either have to use bats to avoid the first attack and that might buy you a bit of time but not enough to switch to corpse curse or to get grip ready. That is the werewolves biggest advantage in this fight. B. Corpse curse is a great move but I have to say if you don't resist howl of terror then your well and fluffed because then you sir are feared and then I can walk up like a sir and ragdoll if I don't wanna sprint. The odds are if you manage to sneak up on the werewolf or start the transformation first you have about 65% chance to win. If you resist howl of terror 85%. If you don't have your spells set up correct at first sight about 45%. If you don't resist howl of terror 0%.
corpse curse does not effect maxed out werewolves. They resist the paralysis.
 

destro64

Member
Starting out in both of their forms. Not able to shoot out the sun, or shoot the vampire with sunhallowed arrows. So it is just the Werewolf and the Vampire Lord in the hot plains, doing battle.

Why does it need to bee in the plains skyrim is almost all mountains it only means that the werewolf needs to be in specific spaces or locations to win not taking its still an asome transformation but VL is better suited for the wilds of skyrim and more likely to encounter the WW before he notices because of the gargolyes if we go to the element of surprise:cowboy:
 

LordofMethuselah

Vampiric Illusionary Necromage of Destruction
Skyrim also has a vast amount of underground caves. So there is a good chance that they could be in a cave. we agreed on plains because otherwise there is too many variables.
 

destro64

Member
Skyrim also has a vast amount of underground caves. So there is a good chance that they could be in a cave. we agreed on plains because otherwise there is too many variables.
very true well depending on the location but its gona be very good fight if its in the plains both are asome guess well have to wait until it comes on PC
 

The_Madgod

LordLlamahat
This was a thread about the two seeing each other at the same time with no sneaking or anything, though in actual skyrim they would meet in a cold forest or some icy plains or mountains, and the VL would almost certainly sneak up on the wolf. Also they had to meet on the plains of whiterun because VL has an advantage almost everywhere else. This wa sjust a straight on fight, no strategy or human form or anything.
 

destro64

Member
This was a thread about the two seeing each other at the same time with no sneaking or anything, though in actual skyrim they would meet in a cold forest or some icy plains or mountains, and the VL would almost certainly sneak up on the wolf. Also they had to meet on the plains of whiterun because VL has an advantage almost everywhere else. This wa sjust a straight on fight, no strategy or human form or anything.
then it will be on luck and the players ability as a gamer i see it this way if the ww resist paralysis the vl lost his oportunity and looses unless he is inmune to ragdoll efects on the other hand if the player is skilled enough to grab him with the grip he will win with life drain spells and this is not considering their powers like the two extra werewolf or bats but i gess if its head on its a pretty even match sorry if it doesnt make sence im a little tired
 

The_Madgod

LordLlamahat
The creatures are cpus in the thread.
 

The_Madgod

LordLlamahat
Yep, though I still say that VL are more useful in game and would win in many locations, and also that if they were played by people then it would all come down to skill.
 

AngloAssasin

New Member
To be fair, I made I character; save just before the choice of becoming a Vampire or not; and I was already a werewolf. While I have to admit I was excited to join the Vampire ranks; and I eventually maxed out the Vampire perks; playing the EXACT same way that I do on my Werewolf character; both of them with maxed perks. I play on Master difficulty and honestly, the VL cannot stand up to the challenge; and winds out being killed sometimes 4-5 times in the exact same spot, even fully perked, with the special amulets and rings you get AND with th Blood of the Ancients perk . Whereas my werewolf character (All totems, perks, AND the ring of Hircine) went on a killingspree of everything from Bandits, to giants, to dragons and probably went on about 1hr and a half of a spree (RL time) because of the super amount of bloodlust. I have ever had a close call; or even a stiff challenge; and the Totem of Brotherhod allowing me to call in 2 more werewolves only makes the killing much faster. If a Top VL player and Werewolf player went head to head; it can go either way based on terrain alone; I have found VL's spells were quite weak and needed to be mostly defensive because it lacks the proper powers to be offensive. As much as I love the VL and the fact you could change at will and could block out the sun.. It's like i just made me want to hate it. Reluctantly I named Werewolves the winner (at least in my book) in the VL vs. Werewolf battle. I wasn't going to play a Werewolf Honestly, but I found VL just impossible on anything over Adept Difficuty.
 

LordofMethuselah

Vampiric Illusionary Necromage of Destruction
Did you have serana with you when you were a VL? Cause taht does nerf the spell power. It does make a sligght difference but I do still agree that werewolves feel stronger
 

The_Madgod

LordLlamahat
In an egual fight with no advantages on either side except upgrades WW would win, yet VL is quite abit more useful in game. Of course, a Dawnguard WW is also very useful.
 

Humbungala

Active Member
I think the vampire lords are a lot more fun only because you have a lot more to play with and use. Werewolves you have the burden of going back to get a different totem and don't really have a large variety of abilities.

In a fight I believe the lord would win only because he has so many night powers to his disposal. Werewolves are faster yet but I'm not sure they could best the two bat powers plus the ethereal with virtually no stamina loss. If a lord wanted to win really easily they could summon a gargoyle for some damage, begin running away and keep running away until they were back in human form.

However if the vampire wasn't going to be a pussy and face the werewolf head on the werewolf would most likely win because werewolves are just freakin powerful.
 

Humbungala

Active Member
Mind you I still really enjoy playing both. I absolutely love being able to rip off an enemy's head as a werewolf :p
 

AngloAssasin

New Member
I didn't run around with Serana because I knew about the spellpower nerf. And even with the night powers; they recharge slowly; and I've managed to knock Harkon out of Bats as a werewolf by hitting him right as he does it. And mist form doesn't regenerate an impressive amount of stamina health or magicka. I kinda felt lt down by the Vampire lord powers; sure they are cool and make you feel good; but they don't have any real potency to them in my opinion. The Master Difficulty VL fight against Harkon took somewhere around 10-15 minutes, being fully upgraded. As a Werewolf fully upgraded I hit him a few times, ragdolled him, and summoned more werewolves to fight Him, took like 2 minutes. (My Dad killed him in 3 hits with Auriels bow; fully upgraded the bow, fully leveld archery and stealth. Crazy bastard.)
 

Squirrel_killer-

The blade in the dark and the hand at your throat
A VL, from what I have seen and read, could wipe the floor with a WW, if it had a big enough magicka pool. A WW, with enough health and stamina, could ruin the day of a VL. It's like tossing a mage at a warrior. On is a glass cannon the other will cut you to bits when it gets in close. I know I personally hate WW because it doesn't fit my play style at all. I die nearly every time I go beast form. When DG comes out on PS3 I will test VL and the enhanced WW out myself and give a more educated opinion. But until then I believe this all boils down to three factors:
  1. Magicka, health, and stamina pools.
  2. Play style. Each has a drastically different way of murdering things, and both, if used correctly, are equal.
  3. Preference.
Now if you wanted to best test the two out head to head you would need to do it in a maze like arena with rooms of varying sizes spread throughout it, areas with traps, water, and multiple levels of elevation, long narrow tunnels, etc. (leading to varying advantages and disadvantages for them each under the different conditions through out this maze). Then release the two on each other to hunt each other down. Have this done 20 times with a new maze each time, and look at the results. Now since this can't be done we will never see a proper testing of which one truly has the upper hand.
On major mistake, in my opinion, people have been making is comparing how fast they can kill something. The WW is high DPS while the VL is less powerful in raw damage, but more flexible. WW charges in and kills fast while devouring his kills to prolong his survival and his transformation. VL can sit out of reach and take his time as he fights larger groups of enemies potentially unharmed. WW need to be able to make a fast kill because they need to feed often to stay in their Beast form. VL don't nee that fast killing ability due to their limitless change time. They are both very effective if used correctly
Lets compare the ups and downs of them both:
Werewolf:
Advantages:
  • Massive damage potential per strike.
  • Fast attack rate.
  • Heals after every feeding.
  • Fast movement.
  • Awesome finishers.
  • Can summon equally powerful assistance.
  • Can see targets with a detect life effect.
  • Can inspire fear in enemies.
Disadvantages:
  • Limited transformations.
  • Needs to feed often to stay in transformation.
  • Can only self heal after a kill.
  • Needs to go back to change its special howl power.
  • No ranged attack.
  • No night vision.

Vampire Lord:
Advantages:
  • Can multiple ways to drain health from enemies and give it to yourself.
  • Has a wide variety of spells at disposal.
  • Can summon a gargoyle minion for assistance.
  • Can travel over water and still fight.
  • Can become invulnerable to damage for a limited time.
  • Useful dodging ability.
  • Can get a full heal on a melee finisher.
  • Can paralyze enemies.
  • Can throw around enemies.
  • Has a night vision power.
  • Can change at will.
  • Has the Supernatural Reflex ability (Slows Time while increasing own speed).
  • Can attack at range with magic or deal reasonable damage up close with claws in melee.
  • Has a detect life ability.
  • Can resurrect the dead to fight for you.
  • Can change and revert as often as you want for as long as you want.
  • Still has some abilities when out of transformation.
  • Resistant to cold.
Disadvantages:
  • Can't take many hard hits.
  • Highly dependent on magicka pool.
  • Looses passive health, magicka, and stamina regeneration in sunlight.
  • Weakness to fire.
  • Weaknesses increase the longer you go without feeding.
  • Shunned if you don't feed.

While the VL seems like it has more advantages than the WW it's draw backs are far more drastic. As well the VL provides a smaller damage boost in return for more versatility, while as the WW gets a massive power increase at the cost of being able to change less. They each have been well balanced in my opinion. But of course I have yet to have proper first hand experience with VL.
 

AngloAssasin

New Member
I applaud you; Actually using the facts that Bethesda has given us and setting a scenario where there could be limitless potentials for who could win based on the terrain and such. And Hopefully when you have the DLC and play a Vampire Lord; you will have a far better time than I. I had incredibe mana and health pools; with gear that increase both; as well as the ring that gives 100 mana and quicker regeneration from the VL quests. But Is still found myself dying often; mainly because the higher level you are, the more rang-based vampire creatures you will be called to fight, using powerful lightning bolt and ice spike powers that decimate you. I do like the mechanics for the VL more than the WW; and I find it more enjoyable to play. But the WW I have built (Same Character, different Saves.) Had an equal amount of health and just traded the Magicka for Stamina; and found the only thing that kills him (From Real Time hours I spend in a single transformation) is a steep fall where I am more than 3-5 seconds fre-falling. With the massive healthpool the WW has, he/she can take larger falls. And I realize that most people try gauge who would win by how fast they could get in and kill eachother; But that's how it comes down to it sometimes; if the VL were able to sneak on a WW and initiate the fight Long range first, it has an advantage; but it all depends on which totem the WW is using, The characters behind them; and how the VL is equipped. If my WW and VL went against eachother; and I was able to make a double of myself that played the exact same way; I think that my WW character would honestly win. And It kinda pains me to say so because of how Hyped up the VL was and how amazing some of the powers work when you can usem right. But many of them won't work on a werewolf; Like corpse-curse. (Top level Blood Magic Paralyze) A Werewolf is almost one-hundred percent immune to it; Though if a WW has the Howl of Terror totem; the VL has almost a 0% chance to resist being feared and will then be the WW's plaything for however long it takes to kill him. But then again; it's all circumstantial. So people debating this are almost wasting their time if they are actually trying to discern a winner; more than just voicing their opinions.
 

destro64

Member
you are right im going to try and do the same thing you did when i have the dlc and i didnt know the vl could be ragdolled that makes him a lot easier to kill
 

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