United States of America and Gun Control and Ban of High Powered Guns Discussion

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Medea

The Shadow Queen
I just don't see the military attacking citizens. You have to remember who they will be pointing their guns at: Their own families and friends. I think that if the government was ever insane enough to make an order like that, the majority of the military would join the resistance against them.
 

FullmetalHeart20

Well-Known Member
I just don't see the military attacking citizens. You have to remember who they will be pointing their guns at: Their own families and friends. I think that if the government was ever insane enough to make an order like that, the majority of the military would join the resistance against them.
I'm usually against casual gun distribution, but I have to disagree here. Points in history like the Civil War (real life) and Nazi Germany show that some people are quite capable of turning against family and friends. Sadly, even good people can get swept up in a cause.
 

Medea

The Shadow Queen
I'm usually against casual gun distribution, but I have to disagree here. Points in history like the Civil War (real life) and Nazi Germany show that some people are quite capable of turning against family and friends. Sadly, even good people can get swept up in a cause.

The Civil war was between two opposing armies, not a full-out assault on U.S. citizens.
 

FullmetalHeart20

Well-Known Member
The Civil war was between two opposing armies, not a full-out assault on U.S. citizens.
Those armies came from somewhere. It could be that someone started a new family in Massachusetts before the war, or a sympathetic northerner joined the Confederacy, but it's likely somebody had to fight family during the war.
 

Medea

The Shadow Queen
Those armies came from somewhere. It could be that someone started a new family in Massachusetts before the war, or a sympathetic northerner joined the Confederacy, but it's likely somebody had to fight family during the war.

It's not that we couldn't have another Civil War, but what I'm saying is it's two opposing military forces. The politics were in place and the country divided before the fighting began. If the citizens simply started to rise up against the government, things would be different. The types of soldiers we would have to worry about then wouldn't be the regular military. It would be mercenaries.
 

FullmetalHeart20

Well-Known Member
Well that doesn't change the fact that soldiers have turned on people they know for their nation before. You can't always trust the people close to you when things like the night of long knives can happen.
 

Crooksin

Glue Sniffer
Well that doesn't change the fact that soldiers have turned on people they know for their nation before. You can't always trust the people close to you when things like the night of long knives can happen.

Different country, different circumstances, different times.

Shadows right though, the civil war had less to do with a tyrant government and more to do with who wanted slaves and who controlled what, it was a violent disagreement between two sides of the country.

Hitler gained power with the aftermath of WW1 and how distraught the German people were. The night of the long knives happened because he targeted Jews which no German cared about enough to do anything about as they were led to believe they were the source of all their problems in the first place. He used political loop holes that were there because German society was all over the place at the time to gain full power.

America doesn't have to worry about a tyrant government, maybe a restrictive one, but living in the west under democracy with systems set up to stop this (excluding the fourth amendment), its ridiculous to base a pro-gun argument on the defense against tyrants, or even an invading force. As it stands, no one is going to fluff with America no matter what they do to anyone, the sole superpower in the world, your military is more then enough to take care of an invasion force considering you put more money into it then the next like 10 military powers combined.

Do you really think a night of the long knives can happen in America? Obama has had enough of Islam and decides to round them all up and execute them, I mean do you seriously think that is such a likely event that everyone must be armed with a shotgun? That would be what I call paranoia, not awareness, and we all know paranoia isn't a good thing for the general public, especially a general public already armed with guns.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there has been any government in the world that is fully developed and democratic like America is that completely turned on its people. Only ones I can think of are 3rd world and countries with dictators already in power.

Consider this, in the 1940s when America (Canada did it too, mind you) rounded up Japanese citizens into labor/prison camps solely because they were Japanese, do you think if they all had guns that it would've changed anything? I would almost guarantee that it wouldn't have meant plops and more blood would've have been spilled.

I just think the American government is too lenient with gun control in the sense that nothing is truly that monitored, and high powered rifles with bigger clips is not needed for hunting or sport. I think the government is going about fixing the issue in the completely wrong way though, putting ass-backwards policies on the amount of ammo you can have, like that really matters.

As the person before who told his little story about how his house got shot up so he ran into the front lawn and started shooting off his AK. How does that help the situation at all? You are shooting a high powered weapon down a residential street, you can tell me you're the best shot in the world but firing an AK (Notoriously bad for accuracy) in a neighborhood is never a good idea no matter what happened to you or why you are doing it. That is exactly what is wrong with the whole Fourth Amendment situation.
 

Lady Redpool the Unlifer

Pyro, Spirits Connoisseur, and Soulless Anarchist
America doesn't have to worry about a tyrant government, maybe a restrictive one, but living in the west under democracy with systems set up to stop this (excluding the fourth amendment)

As the person before who told his little story about how his house got shot up so he ran into the front lawn and started shooting off his AK. How does that help the situation at all? You are shooting a high powered weapon down a residential street, you can tell me you're the best shot in the world but firing an AK (Notoriously bad for accuracy) in a neighborhood is never a good idea no matter what happened to you or why you are doing it. That is exactly what is wrong with the whole Fourth Amendment situation.

Umm........either you mean second ammendment or you really have no idea what your talking about. 4th ammendment is protection against illegal searches and seizures, second ammendment is the right to bear arms.

Just thought I'd drop in and share my two sense again, something for you BIG PICTURE type of people. America is a country where most of it's people are all for america, but fluff it's government(whoops, too much eminem?). The government over here actually has too much power, more power than the constitution grants it, and are trying to expand this power even more. The balance that we have been brought up to believe is there is actually obscenely one sided and while we can vote for our leaders, the options usually don't leave us with a chance to shift the scales.If we let them regulate our guns, what's next? This is actually a valid concern in my opinion because it's nothing new. Look at the budget, the types of laws that have been passed since Obama took office(not blaming him, just using him as a benchmark), and the things that haven't been done. It might be a bit extreme to bring the what next scenario into play, but when the government is overstepping it's bounds already, it's something that the people should worry about. Luckily we live in a country where the populace is well armed and our military members are of much the same opinion as we are.

Thank you, and goodnight.
 

Crooksin

Glue Sniffer
Umm........either you mean second ammendment or you really have no idea what your talking about. 4th ammendment is protection against illegal searches and seizures, second ammendment is the right to bear arms.

Ah, I knew it didn't sound right. I simply got the names mixed up.
 

FullmetalHeart20

Well-Known Member
And what's with this 'only superpower' thing? I'm of the mind that the only reason people have that opinion is because most nations don't feel the need to throw their weight around as much.
 

Crooksin

Glue Sniffer
And what's with this 'only superpower' thing? I'm of the mind that the only reason people have that opinion is because most nations don't feel the need to throw their weight around as much.

I'm of the opinion that most nations don't have active military bases in half of the world and a military budget of half a trillion.
 

FullmetalHeart20

Well-Known Member
I'm of the opinion that most nations don't have active military bases in half of the world and a military budget of half a trillion.
Like they need it. I'm American, and I really do love my country, but I admit that sometimes we can go a bit overboard. Like the Vietnam war. Does anyone even still think there was a point to that?
 

Crooksin

Glue Sniffer
Like they need it. I'm American, and I really do love my country, but I admit that sometimes we can go a bit overboard. Like the Vietnam war. Does anyone even still think there was a point to that?

I agree, I don't think America needs its vast military budget and influence around the world. But it goes back to paranoia, everyone's out to get America (when in fact it was just a group of people in a basement plotting world domination a few years ago). I think America brings alot of trouble onto itself.

Much like the Iraq war, I'm sure the American government only wanted to show every nation its dick size and see how much they could take from the countries at the same time.
 

Mighty Pecan Pie

The secret American
I agree, I don't think America needs its vast military budget and influence around the world. But it goes back to paranoia, everyone's out to get America (when in fact it was just a group of people in a basement plotting world domination a few years ago). I think America brings alot of trouble onto itself.

Much like the Iraq war, I'm sure the American government only wanted to show every nation its dick size and see how much they could take from the countries at the same time.

Key-word is OIL.
 

Benthos

Proud Mer
Paranoia.............and the irrational kind at that.

When someone, be it your own government or someone else's comes to take your home and your neighborhood, they will do so by bombarding your home and your family into ashes, they will use armored vehicles to protect themselves from your assault rifle, and if push comes to shove, the soldiers you will engage will be highly trained individuals, capable of working as cohesive units with all kinds of accesories and all forms of support, your guns won't protect you, it was a nice idea by Jefferson & crew back when wars were fought and decided with personal weaponry, but in the era of drone strikes, you will lose.
There's paranoia, true, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. I will not argue there are paranoid people out there, but there are reasons to having certain weapons, people can make a bomb with cheap and easy to obtain supplies in this day and age, people WANT to be ready for anything, they WANT to be able to protect their family in any situation and if this government isn't trusted they want to be able to fight back. With the US government it's not trusted around the world. There have been revolutions in these recent years in other countries around the world and it was civilian vs government as well. Government sends their military in and riot control and innocent people DO die by both sides by both sides whether by a stray bullet(s) by the civilian and untrained side or by a massacre caused by the government's side.

Also, take a look at the reports during the LA riots in the early 90s, the Koreans had to protect their families and businesses when the African Americans and Hispanics were breaking into homes and stores to rob, rape, and murder those within it regardless of race. What kept the businesses and families protected during that time? Automatic assault rifles.

About the drones, they CAN be shot out of the sky and they only have so many of them, they will run out of funds shortly after and during a time of revolution, military will be split between those who see the error of the government and help the civilians fight back and those who blindly follow.
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/t...may-help-civilians-1C8932488?ocid=msnhp&pos=1
 

FullmetalHeart20

Well-Known Member
Will everyone quit talking like it's inevitable for governments to turn rabid on us? They will see the error and help civilians fight back, the government will run out of funds for aerial drones. I don't know what makes this stuff more likely, treating it like it's a given or how casual people are with the idea of killing each other.
 

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