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Thrall Thread : Living with the dead

Discussion in 'General Skyrim Discussion' started by Adam Warlock, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

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    Just needed a place for the advanced Conjurers to share.
    As a newcomer to Tamriel , I most enjoy that with Dead Thralls you can closely observe the fighting styles and strengths/weaknesses of each kind of warrior or mage in combination with each kind of race. The information i`ve gathered by witnessing these glorious battles is going to guide in building my PC for the next go-round.
    Aside from my own missions using thralls , I have been using an empty house to respawn thralls and watch them fight with each other.
    Yesterday I was able to create a bout between a Dunmer Arch Pyromancer and a Nord Volkihar Vampire. It was spectacular with fire and and white-hot arcs flying everywhere and the longest one-on-one yet ! Ultimately the vampire was to prevail but I think it might have gone the other way if she hadn`t been using Life Drain as well as her Lightning.
    Volkihars usually wipe the floor with most enemies. I was lucky to have an Arch Pyromancer for the fight because they can`t be thralled due to their high level. This Dunmer came about as a respawn of a lower level mage.
     
  2. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

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    Getting a one-on-one is a little more involved than simply loading a house with bodies and returning after respawning occurs to watch a free-for-all (although that is quite fun too). Here`s how I did the above.
    Fill house with bad guy selection of thralls and leave the bodies there without revisiting for at least 10 skyrim days or applicable respawn period.
    When you return(don`t bring your follower for this) some may have disappeared but most will be alive and ready to fight you and with each other if they are from different groups.
    Randomly some may respawn as non-hostile and will not be attacked by the others. Do not kill these yet !
    When the initial battle is done , look for a non-hostile that you want to see fight and then kill any other non-hostiles you don`t want involved .
    Find a body to use as the other opponent there in the house or go get another thrall body from your stockpile , bring it to the house , and deactivate with cloak spell.
    It`s best if you do this next step in an area a bit away from your non-hostile.
    Go into sneak and decide on a good spot to watch the action. I usually put my back to a wall or door for this.
    Cast Dead Thrall spell on the body you`ve selected to fight. Even if you have the Silent Casting perk and even if you`re out of eyesight , this will cause the non-hostile to become aggressive and they will start looking for someone to battle , something your newly created thrall will be happy to oblige them with.
    Enjoy the show but do be prepared to finish off the survivor if your thrall doesn`t win !
     
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  3. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

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    btw . Try to avoid using conjurers and necromancers because they will Zombify those who are killed early in the fight and when such are killed again , they will be turned into permanent ash piles(vanilla xbox) instead of remaining as reusable bodies. I lost my 1st individually named Thrall , Vals Varen , in this manner.
     
  4. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

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    I suppose I should include a warning here that this is all extremely dangerous and most everyone in Skyrim will tell you just that.
    Not only will you be dealing with multiple foes in tight quarters but the results of respawning can be highly unpredictable.
    I`ve seen myself a revived Thalmor Guard go to the door of the house and leave ! Found him later back at the cleared Northwatch Keep.
    Once a Bandit Marauder got loose undetected and killed 4 citizens and a guard on the streets of Solitude !
    Vampires and mages have respawned in the house where my wife was living !
    This is not for the faint of heart.
     
  5. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

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    All of the above has been done mostly with generic bad guys , but I do have some named NPC who are very useful and entertaining Thralls.
    Mages Orchendor and Kornalus .
    Warriors Umana and Ghunzul.
    Nightblade class Eola.
    Each is quite good in their own right even if they do moan.
    Orchendor has poison vomit attack and teleport spell along with his destruction magic. Unlike most mage Thralls , he will wear 2 pieces of heavy armor(for mine, it`s dwarven gauntlets and dragonplate boots) in addition to his robes and comes with his own enchanted necklace and ring. Mine has a Ring Of Peeless Destruction!(yes ,its spelled just like that)
    Kornalus is squishy but powerful with fire , frost , and shock magic.
    Umana uses a shield like no other character I`ve seen and will regularly bash her foes to death.
    Ghunzul has bandit chief skills and a full set of steel plate armor.
    Eola has high sneak skill , good 1h , and will conjure a Flame Atronach in battle.
    Who do you have in your entourage ?
     
  6. MushroomGenius

    MushroomGenius Jarl of Fungi, Great Khal of the Mushraki

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    I had some problems trying to do this, mainly because my thralls would disappear. I was trying to use Hjerim's 'secret room' and locking my thralls away in there for safe keeping, but when I would return after several days, that room would be vacant and my housecarl Calder would give me this stupid look and ask me if I'm lost before saying something more appropriate.

    Another problem I'm having is that my follower, Illia, and my thralls, Wyndelius and Sild the Warlock often end up fighting each other because of competing cloak spells. Personally I find it humorous, but it's kinda frustrating when I have to go searching a ruin for one of my once-again deceased thralls. Wyndelius isn't hard to find because he glows like a ghost, but Sild can be tricky to find.

    Old Thralls:
    I loved Orchendor.. I have him stashed in the Breezehome. I'll eventually have to move him before he fights Lydia. It seemed he was also a victim of fighting with my follower. That teleport spell is pretty cool.

    I had Grelod the Kind for a while before she was killed. She dies from pretty much any type of contact. I think a wayward butterfly may have killed her. As I was exiting the Markarth area in extreme haste, I ended up losing her.. no idea where she ended up. I did take her to Aventus Aretino, but unfortunately there was no additional dialogue for him. I wanted to leave her in his house to respawn, but I lost her.

    Current Thralls:
    As I mentioned above, I use Wyndelius Gatharian, that ghostly mage from Shroud Hearth Barrow near Ivarstead and Sild the Warlock from Ranveig's Fast.

    Most people remember Wyndelius, he's the guy that brewed those ethereal potions that can turn him into a ghost like apparition. Wyndelius gets some bonus points because he talks trash and doesn't moan.

    Sild is the guy that set up the trapdoor in front of the word wall in Ranveig's Fast. He was clever so I took him along.

    Current Follower:
    Illia - Mage from Darklight Tower.

    Basically, I run with a group of four pretty powerful mages.
     
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  7. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

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    Yes , the generic ones will eventually disappear or respawn. I`ve tried keeping them inside an owned house like you but the floor is not stable like the containers. Citizens and others destined for places in the Halls of the Dead will likewise vanish in short order.
    I`m trying the inside of Northwatch Keep since it hasn`t changed since I cleared it some levels ago and The Thalmor bodies there remain stable. Even so , there seems to be a limit to the total you can keep because I`ve seen old bodies vanish when bringing new ones in.
    Many of the named NPC like Orchendor do not reset and should be safe if i don`t glitch the place.
    Also stable are the NPC you find dead rather than make dead. They are permanent but their strength and combat AI is only so-so and they spawn more limited apparel. Like the dead Master Vampires I found who will only wear a roughspun tunicand cast life drain.
    I missed out on Wyndelius and Sild was locked at a level too high for me to thrall so it`s nice to hear about them.
    Illia is my regular follower too and one day she`ll be slinging ice spears with The Blades if I can get her in.
     
  8. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

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    Whenever I take Illia along with Thralls , I remove her staves with area effects like Fireballs and Chain Lightning to reduce the chance of infighting . Even then she`ll pop an ice spear right through you in order to get at her foe. I`m resistant to frost but the controller vibrate can still make me jump if I`ve stepped into her line of fire. The woman`s got the heart of a berserker
     
  9. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

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    Tips for preserving your Thralls are :
    1. Visit their storage area at least once in every 10 skyrim days. This resets the clock for a respawn.
    2. While they are picky about their armor , you can use the same armor set for any Thrall who is in the same Class of characters. For example , most any bandit chief will wear armor spawned from any other bandit chief , etc. . You can also duplicate thrall outfits on a mannikin and they will wear them
    I title armor sets appropriately and store in a nearby container. That way if a thrall vanishes , you can replace them easily. Forsworn are the most adaptable in this regard as they will wear any Forsworn armor no matter how or from whom you obtained it.
    3. Don`t put too many bodies in a single house or cell. I`m not sure if there`s a hard cap here but it seems once you get to 14-16 , the bodies begin to vanish more rapidly.
    4. If your thralls don`t appear in a few moments after fast-travel , repeat the fast-travel to the same location and they should show up. I have to do this more than half the time when going into Solitude.
    5. Sometimes Thralls will not fast-travel to the same spot as you and will have to walk/run to your position. If you fast-travel to the Blue Palace or Understone Keep , for instance, your thralls will appear at the city gates and must run across town to you. Dragon Bridge and many other locations are like this. Wait for them and if they don`t show up shortly , repeat fast-travel or return to the site you left from.
     
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  10. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you`re having fun.
    As for Grelod , I`ll bet you`ll find her niche in the local Hall of the Dead.
    I had Addvar the fishmonger from Solitude as a thrall for a short time. He didn`t moan but would follow me around loudly trying to sell his salmon ! He was funny in an embarassing sort of way but he was weak as a bunny. I bet Grelod could beat him in a fair fight. Both Addvar and the fletcher`s assistant disappeared on me and I later found their gravesites in the Hall of the Dead. I`m betting this explains a lot of missing thralls with names.
    If you`ve left stuff on a thrall like this you can retrieve it at their grave. No such luck for the respawnable NPCs.
    I use Detect Dead spell when searching for my downed or lost thralls. They glow a different color and you can see them through walls . A very handy spell for a guy who can`t see in the dark like me. You can also observe the tenuous connection between a severed head and the rest of the body with Detect Dead .
     
  11. MushroomGenius

    MushroomGenius Jarl of Fungi, Great Khal of the Mushraki

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    It might be too late now... I didn't see her in Markarth's HOTD, I lost her near the stables.. I made sure to check when I had the Namira quest. I don't think I looked back in Riften.

    I dunno about that... you do realize I killed Grelod originally with a cup. I telekinesed it at her from the dining table in the Orphanage...

    Yeah I keep meaning to pick that up in Winterhold, just keep forgetting.
     
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  12. Skyrimosity

    Skyrimosity Fine Southern Gentleman

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    Would someone mind telling me how/where to get the dead thrall spell? As a skill 100 twin soul Conjurer, I'm frankly getting tired of having to waste my Magicka summoning 2 dremoras before every fight.
     
  13. MushroomGenius

    MushroomGenius Jarl of Fungi, Great Khal of the Mushraki

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    After completing the master level quest spell for Drevis Neloren Phinis Gestor he should have it available for sale
     
  14. Skyrimosity

    Skyrimosity Fine Southern Gentleman

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    Ah, thank you for answering. I guess I'll have to speak with my number one spell salesman.
     
  15. Skyrimosity

    Skyrimosity Fine Southern Gentleman

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    What are some good thralls that are easy to find and don't require digging through some barrow? ( I have shadowcloak of Nocturnal, invisible for 120 seconds while in sneak and Mehrunes Razor and 15x dagger damage, sneak killing is an option)
     
  16. MushroomGenius

    MushroomGenius Jarl of Fungi, Great Khal of the Mushraki

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    If you're primarily playing as a sneak-based character, having thralls following you around aren't the best idea since they will engage targets fairly quickly.

    But... If you're looking for a Mage quickly, you could try Anise: Skyrim:Anise - UESPWiki you just have to locate her shack. She's hostile after you explore her hidden basement so you can kill her without any fear of bounty. Personally, I've never used her so I don't know how well she will work for you. Looks like she specializes in Conjuration, that's a bonus.

    I've tried to get Drelas before (Skyrim:Drelas - UESPWiki) but he was deemed "too powerful", unfortunately.
     
  17. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

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    I must agree with Mushroom re: sneaking with Thralls.
    You rarely get more than the 1st shot or so from sneak because you can`t back up after the shot or stab and let things cool down. Single seperated targets can still be snuck up to , but if there`s more than one , then a sneak-sniping strategy is limited in use.
    Thralls and followers are watching the enemy more than they are watching you. They will start the fight as soon as enemy alerts and won`t wait until you`re actually detected. The vast majority have no sneak skills to begin with , even the armorless mages.
    Characters like Astrid or Eola do have high sneak skills but that only means you can get closer to target with them initially. At least with Eola(sneak 70+) , that`s the case because so far she seems no better than Illia(sneak 40+) in keeping calm until the Dragonborn decides the fight is on. Someone who has thralled Asrid will have to report on her.
    Putting Muffle on their boots/shoes helps a bit in remaining undetected longer but doesn`t alter their behavior.
    I understand that patch 1.5 is supposed to make "followers sneak properly" , but I wonder just what that means for thralls.
    Consider Velehk Sain , the Dremora Corsair found sealed in The Midden by a Daedric gauntlet. Do the easy mini-quest for the gauntlet . Don`t release or banish Velehk , but kill and thrall him instead. He is not a high level NPC but as a Dremora he does retain his vocal clips . Not as powerful as a thrall who will wear armor , you can still enchant his garb and scimitar to make a decent meat shield/damage dealer
     
  18. DrunkenMage

    DrunkenMage Intoxicated Arch-Mage

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    Hey, I've been reading these forums for a little bit decided to join them since I basically always like reading them, I find them helpful and rather funny in places, I enjoy reading about your Necromancy tales Adam, been reading into them so I decided I'll start collecting bodies and storing them for use since it seems rather fun.
    So I hopped on my Mage and off I went to find a Necromancer because I thought it'd be ironic for a Necromancer to become my first thrall, I didn't exactly know where to look but I knew of one at that Tower in Falkreath Hold, so off I went and I killed that crazy lady.
    Now I made one mistake, I realised I never bought the dead thrall spell, so there I was standing around with a dead Necromancer with my big plan to take her to Solitude and store her and already it wasn't going to plan, so me being rather paranoid didn't want to risk losing her by leaving, I decided to drag her to Winterhold from Falkreath, now that was a mission I had to drop her a few times because a troll decided he wanted to attack me, a thief wanted to rob me and a pack of wolves probably wanted the dead body.
    Finally after dragging her all the way to Winterhold, with a few strange looks and people going "Be careful with that!" or something along those lines I bought the spell and off we went to Solitude where she now stays in the basement for the time being. But as you'd probably put it Adam "Such are the dangers of Necromancy" (I think?)
     
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  19. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

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    Yes , the bizarre nature of Dead Thrall with respawning has led to some interesting situations , not just for experiments and arena battles , but in my primary game as well.
    Planting Forsworn thrall "bombs" in Understone Keep in order to kill the Thalmor Justiciars there was my most ambitious project to date .
    I am now considering what to do with the 4 remaining non-hostile Forsworn there who are perpetually standing outside the Jarl`s throneroom . They do not disappear or respawn hostile like the dead bodies but each respawn they will switch characters(forager will become a ravager , etc.). I know I can set them off by casting Dead thrall but the Thalmor are gone now and I think it`s funny when you overhear the steward telling the jarl that Forsworn have been sighted in the city.
    I`m leaving them there for now just in case they can become useful in the Forsworn or Civil War quests.
     
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  20. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

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    Consider what could happen if you seed thrall bombs in either The Blue Palace or the Palace of Kings (maybe the inside of a fort or two?) as part of your Civil War experience.
    I for one think it would be interesting to see what Ulfric would do with a throneroom full of bandit chiefs and volkihar vampires as there`s only a few guards in there usually
     
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