This is the best build in Skyrim. Game solved. Period.

[Schaleh]

changes i've made to this build since publishing the following video(s):
1. got the dremora butler, and he's carrying my auriel's bow(instead of dragonbone bow) and dragonbone dagger
2. using the slow time shout (it and the butler have their own keybinding)
3. using mehrunes' razor instead of dragonbone dagger (to nerf myself a bit)
4. using bound bow instead of auriel's bow (to nerf myself a bit, + infinite ammo/semi-1 handed)
5. re-worked my skill distribution (click/drag <-L/R-> to scroll the perks at this link): skyrimcalculator /build/401895/best-level-100/perks

6. switched to elven armor set instead of glass set (elven is lightest in the game, but probably doesn't matter)
7. i no longer have 100% illusion reduction (now it's 96% from helm + chest)
8. my chest now has "99% magicka regen", which helps tremendously when in sunlight

Bear in mind, everything below this line was published/typed several days prior to this top part
Also, that destruction enchant version I mention isn't fun. ... don't play that version; it's old.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You have the best of everything-
the best race (cat race)
the best skill choices (sneaky dagger/archer)
the best gear (80% sneak/ 80% archery)
the highest legit sneak possible (vampirism bonus, seeker of shadows, max gear bonus, 5/5 sneak perks)
the best magics with no spell cost (spam invisible like crazy, spam double pacify, spam heals)
the best weapon enchantment (fear, which makes it even easier to land repeated sneak attacks)
the backup option of switching the illusion version out for the destruction version, for theorycrafting

You avoid the worst of everything-
the worst skills (conjuration, shield, 2 handed)
all of the stuff you do directly develops the relationship b/w your character and the monsters/npcs,
so no confrontational battles; you pick a fight with monster and it will politely walk away;
and even if you do get aggro from that monster's friends, you have at least 3 options. you can face tank aggro them with a heal spell in one hand and dagger in the other. you can become undetected simply by ducking and rolling a short distance away, or simply use the invis spell and shorten that escape distance. you can mass pacify spam them and then completely ignore them. or you could simply smack em one time each with the dagger, and switch to the bow and snipe them safely while croutching undetected. you could even switch to the bow immediately and just start machine gunning them away in terror as you become undetected from the sheer hysterical genocide.

This build simply takes the game, solves it, and then leaves you with the single question: how was I not already using this build?



To be fair, there's a slightly different version of the build that uses destruction cost reduction instead of illusion cost reduction.

It's less double pacify spammy and doesn't have that lovely fear on hit, but it kinda makes up for it with the extra damage you get from chaos enchantments. I'd only recommend taking it if you feel that 0 cost double pacify spam is just too overpowered for your tastes. Keep in mind though: if you really wanted to be overpowered, you could just as easily use the bow for everything. Also, if you use your invisible and sneak rolling preemptively enough, it could arguably be just as overpowered.

Even a shield could be considered overpowered, since all you do with it is disable the enemy. Well, virtually every skill tree has some kind of a checkmate that can lock out the enemy. This just takes the versions of it that are the most fun, the most useful, and the least sloppy-looking.

:BONUS VIDEO:

 

[HouseHosted]

The idea of a 'best' set of items or 'best' way to kill is so very relative. That said, I certainly see what angle you drive at with this build.

I'll admit, the set of trials you use to check viability and effectiveness is intriguing. Then I believe, that is the issue: Where can you go that is difficult with a Sneak bonus so high, and with weapons that instantly kill? Nowhere comes to mind, especially when you take into consideration armour rating and health points.

While this all may come off as negative feedback, please don't think so. It is nice there are folks that still find enjoyment in these activities.

There is one thing: I dd not realize Fear would prevent detection after an assault. I'd like to do my own set of tests to see at which point this begins to happen.

 

[Harkin]

Haha house, no build without a good thrall on your side is "best". Isn't that right? ; )

Skyrims way too easy to OP your character, its more fun to have a limit on resistances and enchantments, and sneaking around alone? Gets boring after awhile, followers and battle variety is what keeps me playing nowadays.

However that does look like a strong sneak build, never tried sneak since skyrim doesn't really feel like a stealth game, I play Dishonoured, Metal gear solid or something for that stuff.

 

[Schaleh]

[in response to HouseHosted]
{You could always make a youtube video like I did and try to make your own case for what you think is optimal. I can explain why I chose certain things vs their alternatives, but I'm not going to do that unless I'm asked.

This wasn't meant to be a trial where everyone who plays skyrim is being cross-examined in suspicion of an injustice.

This is simply me showing my video, trying to make a compelling argument about what I was able to accomplish in sorting, compiling, optimizing, etc. all the variables. I'm glad you at least got some enjoyment from watching it.

I invested a LOT of thought carefully weighing every little nuance. I spent more time pacing around in a circle dwelling on the data than I did in actually playing the game.

I've tested everything, done a bunch of research, and I simply felt compelled to make this claim.

Obviously it's a game- you should do whatever you want, claim whatever you want to be the best.

So, that's what I did- I claimed this to be the best. Hopefully I did a good enough job showcasing it that others can at least offer their own suggestions.

I'd love to see a video reply with a different build that someone feels has more to offer. Just leave me out of it until you have a specific question (and not a rhetorical pseudo-question/complaint).

And please don't quote or paraphrase anything I say in the video in a reply. "I did not realize Fear would prevent detection after an assault"- yeah I never said that. Even if I said that, I didn't say it. This isn't wikipedia. I'm not an online encyclopedia for people to cross-examine. But, by all means- I'd be interested in the results of any tests you'd like to publish, just not in a reply to this video/thread.}

 

[HouseHosted]

hmmm...

Haha house, no build without a good thrall on your side is "best". Isn't that right

This thread is neglecting thralls. It's downright offensive!

[in response to HouseHosted]

Schaleh, it appears you've taken my reply as more aggressive than I meant it to appear. In no way am I trying to denigrade your efforts. I hoped by asserting it wasn't negative feedback you may not react to my words so harshly.

The integrity of your video, the time you'd spent to arrange it, and the research you'd dedicated to its cause cannot be undermined. I wholly respect endeavors of this kind and the amount of diligence they require.

In light of this, I don't feel it appropriate to address each of your statements individually; though, there is a point that strikes me as quite unfair.

And please don't quote or paraphrase anything I say in the video in a reply. "I did not realize Fear would prevent detection after an assault"- yeah I never said that. Even if I said that, I didn't say it. This isn't wikipedia. I'm not an online encyclopedia for people to cross-examine. But, by all means- I'd be interested in the results of any tests you'd like to publish, just not in a reply to this video/thread.}

My comment with Fear was an observation and recognition of the phenomenon you, in the video, also questioned. I don't see how an off-hand wonderment can be so acutely retorted. I fully acknowledge this is not an online database of fact. I don't think there is anyone here that would attest it is. Furthermore, there is no reason to warn me off in expectation of some foul incitement. I'm a civilized person. We can have a thoughtful discussion without needing to lay out groud rules and territories.

Anyways, I will apologize that my reply seemed uncouth to you. I, surely, hope we can put this aside and speak in jest in the future.

 

[Harkin]

The way that I percieved his response to your post house, is that he was offended by your amazement of not knowing about the effect fear has on enemies lol.

I also did not know fear was so useful.

Basically there's no direct aggression or attack in these posts, hope that sums it up?

Oh and Welcome to the forums Scaleh!

 

[HouseHosted]

Ahh, well, hopefully we can get some tranquility back into this thread. We don't need to kill it just yet.

 

[Harkin]

Perk Unlocked, Thread Killer + 20% chance of killing threads

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

The Alchemist/Enchanter is, in terms of numbers and effectiveness, always going to be the BEST build, due to the sheer amount of exploiting you can do with it.

And besides which, you don't really need anything else if you have maxed illusion with decent cost reduction equipment. At that point, you can muffle your boots, cast invisibility, and then you become God. I think the Ebony Warrior is one of the few NPCs in the game that can actually detect you under those circumstances.

On another note, the Fear Enchantment is a novelty. Sure, it works on lower leveled foes, but in the end it is just that. A novelty. If you are going by terms of the speed with which foes are dispatched, it's usually better not to have them run away. You are majorly overrating the fu** out of Fear.

The Khajiit is also not the best race in the game. Not by a long shot. The racial abilities it gets are just novelties, and the starting stats are inconsequential. The Nord, for example, trounces it in almost every respect save beginning stat allocation.

Your dismissal of Conjuration is also a massive mistake. I can beat any enemy in the game on Legendary difficulty with no clothes and no weapons with Conjuration. Illusion and Conjuration in conjunction with each other is one of the most powerful combos in the game.

All in all, your claim of the "Best" build is purely preference.

 

[Schaleh]

The Alchemist/Enchanter is, in terms of numbers and effectiveness, always going to be the BEST build, due to the sheer amount of exploiting you can do with it.

And besides which, you don't really need anything else if you have maxed illusion with decent cost reduction equipment. At that point, you can muffle your boots, cast invisibility, and then you become God. I think the Ebony Warrior is one of the few NPCs in the game that can actually detect you under those circumstances.

On another note, the Fear Enchantment is a novelty. Sure, it works on lower leveled foes, but in the end it is just that. A novelty. If you are going by terms of the speed with which foes are dispatched, it's usually better not to have them run away. You are majorly overrating the fu** out of Fear.

The Khajiit is also not the best race in the game. Not by a long shot. The racial abilities it gets are just novelties, and the starting stats are inconsequential. The Nord, for example, trounces it in almost every respect save beginning stat allocation.

Your dismissal of Conjuration is also a massive mistake. I can beat any enemy in the game on Legendary difficulty with no clothes and no weapons with Conjuration. Illusion and Conjuration in conjunction with each other is one of the most powerful combos in the game.

All in all, your claim of the "Best" build is purely preference.

I said in my first reply, "I can explain why I chose certain things vs their alternatives, but I'm not going to do that unless I'm asked."

You clearly just want to complain to me. Well, this isn't the place for that. If you want to showcase your own version of the best build, then make a youtube video and post it in a reply. Until then, if you have no questions for me, keep your criticism to yourself.

Why don't you just spit in my face while you're at it? Excuse me for not being as god-like and awe-inspiring as you, with your vague inferences to your mysteriously flawless build.

I would argue with you about everything you said, except not in this thread. That's just not what this thread is for. This thread is for making cases about what you think is the best build; and if you have questions for me, I'll answer them.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

The Alchemist/Enchanter is, in terms of numbers and effectiveness, always going to be the BEST build, due to the sheer amount of exploiting you can do with it.

And besides which, you don't really need anything else if you have maxed illusion with decent cost reduction equipment. At that point, you can muffle your boots, cast invisibility, and then you become God. I think the Ebony Warrior is one of the few NPCs in the game that can actually detect you under those circumstances.

On another note, the Fear Enchantment is a novelty. Sure, it works on lower leveled foes, but in the end it is just that. A novelty. If you are going by terms of the speed with which foes are dispatched, it's usually better not to have them run away. You are majorly overrating the fu** out of Fear.

The Khajiit is also not the best race in the game. Not by a long shot. The racial abilities it gets are just novelties, and the starting stats are inconsequential. The Nord, for example, trounces it in almost every respect save beginning stat allocation.

Your dismissal of Conjuration is also a massive mistake. I can beat any enemy in the game on Legendary difficulty with no clothes and no weapons with Conjuration. Illusion and Conjuration in conjunction with each other is one of the most powerful combos in the game.

All in all, your claim of the "Best" build is purely preference.

I said in my first reply, "I can explain why I chose certain things vs their alternatives, but I'm not going to do that unless I'm asked."

You clearly just want to complain to me. Well, this isn't the place for that. If you want to showcase your own version of the best build, then make a youtube video and post it in a reply. Until then, if you have no questions for me, keep your criticism to yourself.

Why don't you just spit in my face while you're at it? Excuse me for not being as god-like and awe-inspiring as you, with your vague inferences to your mysteriously flawless build.

I would argue with you about everything you said, except not in this thread. That's just not what this thread is for. This thread is for making cases about what you think is the best build; and if you have questions for me, I'll answer them.

There is never a bad time for a debate, as it helps us gain new insights into different perspectives, and better shape our own. You'll notice I rated and liked your post, as I did appreciate it and it did make a lot of good points. However, you made an absolute claim, and a claim that I will refute without sugarcoating. You made several claims that quite frankly, are either matters of opinion or false.

The first being there is no definitive "best" build in Skyrim. The closest you can get is an Alchemist/Enchanter, which can and WILL break the game on any difficulty against ANY opponent.

Everything under that is pure preference. Your optimization choices here, for example, are flawed. I can break them down for you, one by one, including what I have already pointed out.

The Khajiit brings absolutely nothing to the table except for a head start.

The best skill choices are purely preference, though as far as numbers go, again, Alchemy and Enchanting WILL break the game.

The best gear is, again, preference. Sneak enchantments in particular are almost completely obsolete with muffle and invisibility, and are only really useful once you get insanely high bonuses in order to sneak up close to the Ebony Warrior (who has a God-like detection ability, in my games). Archery is useful, but again, it's preference.

Again, the highest "legit" sneak possible is simply muffled boots and invisibility. You literally cannot be detected by most NPCs in the game unless you are right on top of them or hit them, and even then, you can restealth by recasting invisibility if you can move fast enough from the last location they detected you at.

Best magics with no spell cast, I agree, is illusion. After that is definitely Conjuration, with Restoration a close third.

Best weapon enchantment, again, Fear? Seriously? Nevermind that it won't work on most enemies that will really give you trouble late game. Best weapon enchantment is, again, preference. Personally, I like Absorb HP and Stamina, or magicka if I need to cripple mages. These enchantments are good for nearly any build, even if they aren't definitively "the best". I can certainly say they are better than Fear.


Destruction is, quite simply, underpowered. It is big time the underdog in this game.

Conjuration is FAR from one of the worst skills (it is actually one of the best), 2 handed also isn't one of the worst, and while I agree using a shield isn't that useful, the BLOCKING skill is invaluable due to the ability to bash and the perk that adds slow mo. The worst skills are mostly preferential, but generally I would say Alteration, lockpicking, and persuasion are definitely pretty far down on the list of best skills.

While I agree with the basic idea (OP stealth build) stealth builds are OP in general. This is not news.

Skyrim is not a game where you can simply take a build and prove it's the best. At the end of the day, it's just the best build for YOU. Everyone's idea will be different. Unless of course, it's an Alchemy/Enchanting build, in which case you may as well have used console commands to activate God Mode.

 

[HouseHosted]

Fleeing vampires are such a pain... You'll get them down to a sliver and then they cast Invis. Gets me every time.
I can only imagine what gameplay would be like if enemies could perform sneak criticals on the DB.

Perk Unlocked, Thread Killer + 20% chance of killing threads

I'm working for level 50's Subtlety. Allows a thread to potentially be revived with the sharing of subtly relevant off-hand experiences... Fit that in your perk description. I dare you! /fontsize="2"

 

[Schaleh]

The Alchemist/Enchanter is, in terms of numbers and effectiveness, always going to be the BEST build, due to the sheer amount of exploiting you can do with it.

And besides which, you don't really need anything else if you have maxed illusion with decent cost reduction equipment. At that point, you can muffle your boots, cast invisibility, and then you become God. I think the Ebony Warrior is one of the few NPCs in the game that can actually detect you under those circumstances.

On another note, the Fear Enchantment is a novelty. Sure, it works on lower leveled foes, but in the end it is just that. A novelty. If you are going by terms of the speed with which foes are dispatched, it's usually better not to have them run away. You are majorly overrating the fu** out of Fear.

The Khajiit is also not the best race in the game. Not by a long shot. The racial abilities it gets are just novelties, and the starting stats are inconsequential. The Nord, for example, trounces it in almost every respect save beginning stat allocation.

Your dismissal of Conjuration is also a massive mistake. I can beat any enemy in the game on Legendary difficulty with no clothes and no weapons with Conjuration. Illusion and Conjuration in conjunction with each other is one of the most powerful combos in the game.

All in all, your claim of the "Best" build is purely preference.

I said in my first reply, "I can explain why I chose certain things vs their alternatives, but I'm not going to do that unless I'm asked."

You clearly just want to complain to me. Well, this isn't the place for that. If you want to showcase your own version of the best build, then make a youtube video and post it in a reply. Until then, if you have no questions for me, keep your criticism to yourself.

Why don't you just spit in my face while you're at it? Excuse me for not being as god-like and awe-inspiring as you, with your vague inferences to your mysteriously flawless build.

I would argue with you about everything you said, except not in this thread. That's just not what this thread is for. This thread is for making cases about what you think is the best build; and if you have questions for me, I'll answer them.

There is never a bad time for a debate, as it helps us gain new insights into different perspectives, and better shape our own. You'll notice I rated and liked your post, as I did appreciate it and it did make a lot of good points. However, you made an absolute claim, and a claim that I will refute without sugarcoating. You made several claims that quite frankly, are either matters of opinion or false.

The first being there is no definitive "best" build in Skyrim. The closest you can get is an Alchemist/Enchanter, which can and WILL break the game on any difficulty against ANY opponent.

Everything under that is pure preference. Your optimization choices here, for example, are flawed. I can break them down for you, one by one, including what I have already pointed out.

The Khajiit brings absolutely nothing to the table except for a head start.

The best skill choices are purely preference, though as far as numbers go, again, Alchemy and Enchanting WILL break the game.

The best gear is, again, preference. Sneak enchantments in particular are almost completely obsolete with muffle and invisibility, and are only really useful once you get insanely high bonuses in order to sneak up close to the Ebony Warrior (who has a God-like detection ability, in my games). Archery is useful, but again, it's preference.

Again, the highest "legit" sneak possible is simply muffled boots and invisibility. You literally cannot be detected by most NPCs in the game unless you are right on top of them or hit them, and even then, you can restealth by recasting invisibility if you can move fast enough from the last location they detected you at.

Best magics with no spell cast, I agree, is illusion. After that is definitely Conjuration, with Restoration a close third.

Best weapon enchantment, again, Fear? Seriously? Nevermind that it won't work on most enemies that will really give you trouble late game. Best weapon enchantment is, again, preference. Personally, I like Absorb HP and Stamina, or magicka if I need to cripple mages. These enchantments are good for nearly any build, even if they aren't definitively "the best". I can certainly say they are better than Fear.


Destruction is, quite simply, underpowered. It is big time the underdog in this game.

Conjuration is FAR from one of the worst skills (it is actually one of the best), 2 handed also isn't one of the worst, and while I agree using a shield isn't that useful, the BLOCKING skill is invaluable due to the ability to bash and the perk that adds slow mo. The worst skills are mostly preferential, but generally I would say Alteration, lockpicking, and persuasion are definitely pretty far down on the list of best skills.

While I agree with the basic idea (OP stealth build) stealth builds are OP in general. This is not news.

Skyrim is not a game where you can simply take a build and prove it's the best. At the end of the day, it's just the best build for YOU. Everyone's idea will be different. Unless of course, it's an Alchemy/Enchanting build, in which case you may as well have used console commands to activate God Mode.

Ok fine; I'll argue with you (not b/c there aren't places where it's inappropriate to argue- especially in a grand jury trial it's simply one side presenting their case without cross-examination). I guess maybe this thread isn't such a bad place for that, since I'm awfully specific in my title where I specify that it's my build we're talking about.

The Khajiit is the best class b/c it's a cat. Cats fit the invisibility and sneaking theme of the build, which is the most powerful and useful build in the game (optimized for freedom, justice, efficiency, gameplay, etc.). Cats are also adorable.

Yes it's a fact that you can't optimize a build without max smithing, alchemy, and enchant. The perks in those are fairly obvious too. The reasons for not maxing them all revolve around self-nerfing, which is an entirely different subject. Basically, I never self-nerf unless I can easily expect another person to understand what the appropriate extent of that would be. For instance, I stop levelling up at level 100, even though you could pretty easily just get to level 150 and get basically every perk in the game. I chose level 100 because every skill stops at level 100. It's 19 levels above the non-dlc level cap, which is just enough to go above the cap, but not abuse it. It basically just forces you to pick certain things you shouldn't use.

The reason why conjuration sucks is because my build has 100% magic absorb. If you're playing with the 2nd unofficial skyrim patch, you'll still have like 80% magic absorb. Especially if you have 100% magic absorb, it's literally impossible to conjure anything (it gets absorbed). The best you can do is conjure a weapon (which would be pretty useful in a mission where you lose your clothes such as 'no one escapes cidhna mine', especially if you use bound bow + slow time shout + sneak attacking). You obviously want 100% magic absorb. There's plenty of things that hit for high damage that use magic, such as dragons. Even with 80% absorb (by not going vampire for instance), you can still take 600 spell damage easily from a tough dragon.

There's other reasons why conjuration sucks. Mainly- I don't trust the AI to play for me. You become entirely dependent on NPCs to do all your gameplay. It detracts from the freedom of the game, as you're now responsible for monitoring and maintaining these extra bodies (who now are also a detection liability, as it's often next to impossible to land sneak attacks while your allies aren't hidden). There's hardly any reason to suspect that the NPCs you summon will do what you actually want them to, to the target that you want them to, and at the exact time that you want them to.

Muffled boots + invisibility doesn't do as much as you'd expect. You'll be hidden that way only if you maintain a pretty far distance away from the monsters (as soon as the red dot appears, they're going to start approaching you and taking blind swings that happen to be exactly where you always are, and from there, entering sneak mode will only be as effective as the bonuses allow). Having the max sneak bonus in the game boosts anti-detection efficiency by a significant amount. This is especially true when using the bow, as it's difficult to recast invisibility for each shot, combined with the fact that bows make much more noise than daggers. Even a dagger sneak attack will get you detected without enough sneak bonus. Ideally you want as much sneak bonus as possible so you can have the easiest time ensuring that you can get sneak attacks. Higher sneak will shrink detection distances, and reduce the time needed for the eyeball to close when those conditions are met. It's also annoying to have to recast invisibility after each dagger attack.

The smoothest gameplay would involve using the sneak skill as a base for sneak attacks. The invisibility spell compliments this by a)preventing enemies from seeing you before you see them, and b)allowing you to go from fully visible to completely hidden simply by sneaking while invisible. Even with the absolute max sneaking bonuses, you still need to do a tiny amount of dodging and waiting before you can drop their detection (and even then, the only way to reduce the time it takes to completely drop is determined by sneak bonus).

As for destruction enchants, I posted an alternate version of the build on youtube (it was linked in the video's youtube description ever since I first posted it). It uses destruction enchants and max destruction reduction. It's a decent build alternative, especially if all you want is the highest damage possible per hit (the stalhrim bow/dagger of chaos enchant + something else like frost enchant or absorb). Keep in mind though that the best dps bow in the game is Auriel's, and you can't put any enchants on Auriel's Bow.

Fear enchant is good (we're basically just talking about the dagger at this point) because maxing out your illusion is good.

Illusion is good mostly b/c vampire is absolutely a must. Vampires can run into some serious problems with magicka running out in daylight. So, having 0 spell cost illusion spells guarantees that you'll never be a stage 4 vampire in a town surrounded by hostile enemies. If a bunch of enemies ambush you at a town and start picking fights with other town NPCs, you can use as much pacify spam and invisibility as you want without dipping into your magicka pool. Not having to worry about magicka running out is also liberating and fun, opening more opportunities to experiment with new creative ways to interact with npcs.

So, fear enchant beats the destruction enchant ultimately b/c it's something you get for free with the more useful reduction gear. The extra damage isn't critical. If you can land 1 sneak attack, it's probably dead. If it takes two, it'll probably still take 2, and it's not that hard to just land a 2nd sneak attack if you got the first one (especially if you have maxed out sneak bonuses).

Fear enchant has its own special traits that make it preferable. It will enable you to screw with enemies by fearing them (or at least testing their level 48 fear resistance). This can provide some interesting information about monsters that you wouldn't get from a destruction enchanted dagger. (By the way, the bow you use should be Auriel's Bow, which already comes with a lame enchantment, but is much faster than the other bows-- i included a correction about this in the description on that youtube video, and you can see me using Auriel's Bow in the bonus video as well). The reduction in damage is also going to provide even more data, for instance- it'll give you some idea of exactly how much health a monster has.

There's just certain times when having a ~340 damage dagger with level 48 fear enchantment can do exactly what you want, that you'd never have a chance to do with a destruction enchanted one. For instance, there's one mission called 'chief of thirsk hall' where it ends by the chief riekling challenging you to a fight to the death. With the fear enchanted dagger, you can slap em in the face and have him run off like a coward (without 1 shotting him like you would with a destruction enchanted dagger). It adds this other level of character interaction. Against that one boss, I could've pickpocketed all his weapons/items, fear slapped em in the face for a significant portion of his health (without killing him), pacified him, paralyzed him, used slow time, and sniped him all in one hilarious fight sequence.

In my build, my hotkeys now include paralyze and frenzy, as well as the slow time shout. So, I have the entire gamut of status effects all hotkeyed to my razer hex naga side buttons. All these hotkeys are easily accessible, 1 button transitions. I rely on the minimum amount of hotkeys, and use more hotkeys only to cover scenarios that the invisibility/dagger and bow can't handle. For instance, the double pacify is necessary for when you're in a town and the npcs are all at risk of dying. It'll also keep any friendly npcs from interfering in your fights. The heal spell hotkey is also a must for those unavoidable situations where you have to take damage (or if you need to regain all your stamina). The paralyze skill and the frenzy skill also deserve their own hotkeys b/c they're also fun and open new possibilities.

The one possible controversial drawback that I experimented with was trying to include a shield setup (as a replacement for the frenzy spell being hotkeyed for instance). I suppose it would be a little fun to let the mobs wail on my shield, especially in certain situations where monsters might be able to 1 shot decapitate me if I try to go toe-to-toe with them being detected at close range. The only problem with that was the allocation of perk points. At level 100, I'd have to make some perk choice sacrifices that I didn't want to make. It also doesn't really fit the theme of the build. I have virtually all my skill choices involving some form of avoidance of combat (through sneaking/illusion). The build is really just meant for avoiding confrontation/aggro with the enemy. This is also the most fun b/c it lets you think about ideas in depth when you're playing, rather than constantly being pressured and forced to perform a certain way (blocking attacks, banging yourself up against an angry, confrontational jerk in the heat of combat). The ideal playstyle will always involve the coolest approach. It would only be something you'd pick temporarily just for the heck of it, because you knew it didn't have a permanent place in your hotkeys/build.

Two-handed is inferior to 1-handed because it blocks up the entire left hand with an insignificant amount of damage. There's no reason to complain about 1-handed, especially when you can do amazing things with daggers, which require no skill bonuses to improve their damage.

To really argue everything that went into every minute detail would be difficult. I've even made slight tweaks since all my videos have been uploaded. The information in the first post in this thread isn't the same as I would've worded it today as well. So, there's limits to how productive this coversation can be, especially when I'm basically the only one interested in arguing for one specific build that they have (and not just a general outline of a few suggestions). Basically, I've got videos and an actual character that I'm trying to make perfect, and all you have to do is stand on the sidelines and complain for whatever reason. And in some cases, you complain about me even wanting to find a single best build. Well, screw you- go find a thread that shares that sentiment and leave me alone. I don't deserve that kind of treatment.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

I said in my first reply, "I can explain why I chose certain things vs their alternatives, but I'm not going to do that unless I'm asked."

You clearly just want to complain to me. Well, this isn't the place for that. If you want to showcase your own version of the best build, then make a youtube video and post it in a reply. Until then, if you have no questions for me, keep your criticism to yourself.

Why don't you just spit in my face while you're at it? Excuse me for not being as god-like and awe-inspiring as you, with your vague inferences to your mysteriously flawless build.

I would argue with you about everything you said, except not in this thread. That's just not what this thread is for. This thread is for making cases about what you think is the best build; and if you have questions for me, I'll answer them.

There is never a bad time for a debate, as it helps us gain new insights into different perspectives, and better shape our own. You'll notice I rated and liked your post, as I did appreciate it and it did make a lot of good points. However, you made an absolute claim, and a claim that I will refute without sugarcoating. You made several claims that quite frankly, are either matters of opinion or false.

The first being there is no definitive "best" build in Skyrim. The closest you can get is an Alchemist/Enchanter, which can and WILL break the game on any difficulty against ANY opponent.

Everything under that is pure preference. Your optimization choices here, for example, are flawed. I can break them down for you, one by one, including what I have already pointed out.

The Khajiit brings absolutely nothing to the table except for a head start.

The best skill choices are purely preference, though as far as numbers go, again, Alchemy and Enchanting WILL break the game.

The best gear is, again, preference. Sneak enchantments in particular are almost completely obsolete with muffle and invisibility, and are only really useful once you get insanely high bonuses in order to sneak up close to the Ebony Warrior (who has a God-like detection ability, in my games). Archery is useful, but again, it's preference.

Again, the highest "legit" sneak possible is simply muffled boots and invisibility. You literally cannot be detected by most NPCs in the game unless you are right on top of them or hit them, and even then, you can restealth by recasting invisibility if you can move fast enough from the last location they detected you at.

Best magics with no spell cast, I agree, is illusion. After that is definitely Conjuration, with Restoration a close third.

Best weapon enchantment, again, Fear? Seriously? Nevermind that it won't work on most enemies that will really give you trouble late game. Best weapon enchantment is, again, preference. Personally, I like Absorb HP and Stamina, or magicka if I need to cripple mages. These enchantments are good for nearly any build, even if they aren't definitively "the best". I can certainly say they are better than Fear.


Destruction is, quite simply, underpowered. It is big time the underdog in this game.

Conjuration is FAR from one of the worst skills (it is actually one of the best), 2 handed also isn't one of the worst, and while I agree using a shield isn't that useful, the BLOCKING skill is invaluable due to the ability to bash and the perk that adds slow mo. The worst skills are mostly preferential, but generally I would say Alteration, lockpicking, and persuasion are definitely pretty far down on the list of best skills.

While I agree with the basic idea (OP stealth build) stealth builds are OP in general. This is not news.

Skyrim is not a game where you can simply take a build and prove it's the best. At the end of the day, it's just the best build for YOU. Everyone's idea will be different. Unless of course, it's an Alchemy/Enchanting build, in which case you may as well have used console commands to activate God Mode.

Ok fine; I'll argue with you (not b/c there aren't places where it's inappropriate to argue- especially in a grand jury trial it's simply one side presenting their case without cross-examination). I guess maybe this thread isn't such a bad place for that, since I'm awfully specific in my title where I specify that it's my build we're talking about.

The Khajiit is the best class b/c it's a cat. Cats fit the invisibility and sneaking theme of the build, which is the most powerful and useful build in the game (optimized for freedom, justice, efficiency, gameplay, etc.). Cats are also adorable.

Yes it's a fact that you can't optimize a build without max smithing, alchemy, and enchant. The perks in those are fairly obvious too. The reasons for not maxing them all revolve around self-nerfing, which is an entirely different subject. Basically, I never self-nerf unless I can easily expect another person to understand what the appropriate extent of that would be. For instance, I stop levelling up at level 100, even though you could pretty easily just get to level 150 and get basically every perk in the game. I chose level 100 because every skill stops at level 100. It's 19 levels above the non-dlc level cap, which is just enough to go above the cap, but not abuse it. It basically just forces you to pick certain things you shouldn't use.

The reason why conjuration sucks is because my build has 100% magic absorb. If you're playing with the 2nd unofficial skyrim patch, you'll still have like 80% magic absorb. Especially if you have 100% magic absorb, it's literally impossible to conjure anything (it gets absorbed). The best you can do is conjure a weapon (which would be pretty useful in a mission where you lose your clothes such as 'no one escapes cidhna mine', especially if you use bound bow + slow time shout + sneak attacking). You obviously want 100% magic absorb. There's plenty of things that hit for high damage that use magic, such as dragons. Even with 80% absorb (by not going vampire for instance), you can still take 600 spell damage easily from a tough dragon.

There's other reasons why conjuration sucks. Mainly- I don't trust the AI to play for me. You become entirely dependent on NPCs to do all your gameplay. It detracts from the freedom of the game, as you're now responsible for monitoring and maintaining these extra bodies (who now are also a detection liability, as it's often next to impossible to land sneak attacks while your allies aren't hidden). There's hardly any reason to suspect that the NPCs you summon will do what you actually want them to, to the target that you want them to, and at the exact time that you want them to.

Muffled boots + invisibility doesn't do as much as you'd expect. You'll be hidden that way only if you maintain a pretty far distance away from the monsters (as soon as the red dot appears, they're going to start approaching you and taking blind swings that happen to be exactly where you always are, and from there, entering sneak mode will only be as effective as the bonuses allow). Having the max sneak bonus in the game boosts anti-detection efficiency by a significant amount. This is especially true when using the bow, as it's difficult to recast invisibility for each shot, combined with the fact that bows make much more noise than daggers. Even a dagger sneak attack will get you detected without enough sneak bonus. Ideally you want as much sneak bonus as possible so you can have the easiest time ensuring that you can get sneak attacks. Higher sneak will shrink detection distances, and reduce the time needed for the eyeball to close when those conditions are met. It's also annoying to have to recast invisibility after each dagger attack.

The smoothest gameplay would involve using the sneak skill as a base for sneak attacks. The invisibility spell compliments this by a)preventing enemies from seeing you before you see them, and b)allowing you to go from fully visible to completely hidden simply by sneaking while invisible. Even with the absolute max sneaking bonuses, you still need to do a tiny amount of dodging and waiting before you can drop their detection (and even then, the only way to reduce the time it takes to completely drop is determined by sneak bonus).

As for destruction enchants, I posted an alternate version of the build on youtube (it was linked in the video's youtube description ever since I first posted it). It uses destruction enchants and max destruction reduction. It's a decent build alternative, especially if all you want is the highest damage possible per hit (the stalhrim bow/dagger of chaos enchant + something else like frost enchant or absorb). Keep in mind though that the best dps bow in the game is Auriel's, and you can't put any enchants on Auriel's Bow.

Fear enchant is good (we're basically just talking about the dagger at this point) because maxing out your illusion is good.

Illusion is good mostly b/c vampire is absolutely a must. Vampires can run into some serious problems with magicka running out in daylight. So, having 0 spell cost illusion spells guarantees that you'll never be a stage 4 vampire in a town surrounded by hostile enemies. If a bunch of enemies ambush you at a town and start picking fights with other town NPCs, you can use as much pacify spam and invisibility as you want without dipping into your magicka pool. Not having to worry about magicka running out is also liberating and fun, opening more opportunities to experiment with new creative ways to interact with npcs.

So, fear enchant beats the destruction enchant ultimately b/c it's something you get for free with the more useful reduction gear. The extra damage isn't critical. If you can land 1 sneak attack, it's probably dead. If it takes two, it'll probably still take 2, and it's not that hard to just land a 2nd sneak attack if you got the first one (especially if you have maxed out sneak bonuses).

Fear enchant has its own special traits that make it preferable. It will enable you to screw with enemies by fearing them (or at least testing their level 48 fear resistance). This can provide some interesting information about monsters that you wouldn't get from a destruction enchanted dagger. (By the way, the bow you use should be Auriel's Bow, which already comes with a lame enchantment, but is much faster than the other bows-- i included a correction about this in the description on that youtube video, and you can see me using Auriel's Bow in the bonus video as well). The reduction in damage is also going to provide even more data, for instance- it'll give you some idea of exactly how much health a monster has.

There's just certain times when having a ~340 damage dagger with level 48 fear enchantment can do exactly what you want, that you'd never have a chance to do with a destruction enchanted one. For instance, there's one mission called 'chief of thirsk hall' where it ends by the chief riekling challenging you to a fight to the death. With the fear enchanted dagger, you can slap em in the face and have him run off like a coward (without 1 shotting him like you would with a destruction enchanted dagger). It adds this other level of character interaction. Against that one boss, I could've pickpocketed all his weapons/items, fear slapped em in the face for a significant portion of his health (without killing him), pacified him, paralyzed him, used slow time, and sniped him all in one hilarious fight sequence.

In my build, my hotkeys now include paralyze and frenzy, as well as the slow time shout. So, I have the entire gamut of status effects all hotkeyed to my razer hex naga side buttons. All these hotkeys are easily accessible, 1 button transitions. I rely on the minimum amount of hotkeys, and use more hotkeys only to cover scenarios that the invisibility/dagger and bow can't handle. For instance, the double pacify is necessary for when you're in a town and the npcs are all at risk of dying. It'll also keep any friendly npcs from interfering in your fights. The heal spell hotkey is also a must for those unavoidable situations where you have to take damage (or if you need to regain all your stamina). The paralyze skill and the frenzy skill also deserve their own hotkeys b/c they're also fun and open new possibilities.

The one possible controversial drawback that I experimented with was trying to include a shield setup (as a replacement for the frenzy spell being hotkeyed for instance). I suppose it would be a little fun to let the mobs wail on my shield, especially in certain situations where monsters might be able to 1 shot decapitate me if I try to go toe-to-toe with them being detected at close range. The only problem with that was the allocation of perk points. At level 100, I'd have to make some perk choice sacrifices that I didn't want to make. It also doesn't really fit the theme of the build. I have virtually all my skill choices involving some form of avoidance of combat (through sneaking/illusion). The build is really just meant for avoiding confrontation/aggro with the enemy. This is also the most fun b/c it lets you think about ideas in depth when you're playing, rather than constantly being pressured and forced to perform a certain way (blocking attacks, banging yourself up against an angry, confrontational jerk in the heat of combat). The ideal playstyle will always involve the coolest approach. It would only be something you'd pick temporarily just for the heck of it, because you knew it didn't have a permanent place in your hotkeys/build.

Two-handed is inferior to 1-handed because it blocks up the entire left hand with an insignificant amount of damage. There's no reason to complain about 1-handed, especially when you can do amazing things with daggers, which require no skill bonuses to improve their damage.

To really argue everything that went into every minute detail would be difficult. I've even made slight tweaks since all my videos have been uploaded. The information in the first post in this thread isn't the same as I would've worded it today as well. So, there's limits to how productive this coversation can be, especially when I'm basically the only one interested in arguing for one specific build that they have (and not just a general outline of a few suggestions). Basically, I've got videos and an actual character that I'm trying to make perfect, and all you have to do is stand on the sidelines and complain for whatever reason. And in some cases, you complain about me even wanting to find a single best build. Well, screw you- go find a thread that shares that sentiment and leave me alone. I don't deserve that kind of treatment.

Then you admit, preference.

Max smithing is not necessary, but other than that yeah, correct. Although I will say stopping at level 100 means nothing. The PC is usually OP long before that.

Magic Absorb is, first of all, more than a little annoying and tedious to get to the higher levels. Sure, it stops spells. However, it is unnecessary when you have high magic resistance or Become Ethereal. It is not worth trading Conjuration for.

No, you don't have to become entirely dependent on them, and you don't have to take care of them. So what of they die? Just summon another one, or revive them if it's a dead thrall. I usually carry around multiple outfits with 100%cost reduction on Illusion, Restoration, and Conjuration. And yes, with invisibility and muffle you can still get sneak attacks rather easily. And what do you mean do what you want them to? They are damage sponges. If they are the focus of your build, they CAN kill everything for you. What does it matter it's not in the way or order you want them to?

It does MUCH more than you seem to expect. Two words. Quiet Casting. You will be hidden that way PERIOD as long as you turn invisible and move after you attack. Even when the detection circle is open, as long as you move, they can only track you if they catch you at the last place they saw you. Sure sneak bonuses help, but they aren't necessary. Having to recast invisibility can be annoying and tedious, sure. But a stealth build should be patient anyways. It honestly isn't that much of a hassle. And besides which, you are again admitting preference here.

No. You only need to move from the last location they detected you. If you do not move before they hit or bump into you, then that is where your problem is.

The best DPS in the game is Dual Wielding. Easily. The best DPS on a ranged weapon, I think, is what you mean. Sure destruction is useful for reducing the drain on enchantments, but it is also an unnecessary convenience. Preference.

Sure it's GOOD, but you said BEST.

Vampire is NOT a must, it's just easy to abuse with the right restoration perk.. Illusion is good because it is absolutely fu**ing broken. Once you get quiet casting and dual casting, that's game over for most enemies in the game. And with Dawnguard, you don't have to worry about towns going hostile.

Again, preference and unnecessary convenience. So what if it's free? Soul Gems are easily obtainable.

Information easily found by googling it, and it takes much less time and effort as well.

Preference. Again.

Invisibility with muffled boots makes your hotkeys completely unnecessary.

If you're standing your ground while blocking, you're doing it wrong. Blocking is best utilized in two ways. One: Bashing. Stops the damage before it hits you and allows you some free hits. And two: Slow mo. Get the slow mo (best used with the perk that lets you move faster) and you can make any enemy look like a fool.

Sure there's no reason to complain about 1 handed, but there's no reason to complain about 2 handed either. Reach and greater damage, as well as greater stagger potential, are useful in their own right. It is not inferior, just different.

I am not complaining, I am pointing out the flaws in your build, and I am only doing so for the sole reason that you went out of your way to claim it as the best. If you would like me to right out and describe a build for you, I can. I also am not complaining about you trying to find the best build, I am simply giving you criticism so that you can improve it. As for screwing me, I will quote the British Royal Navy. "If you flash first, you lose."

 

[Schaleh]

"I am not complaining, I am pointing out the flaws in your build.."

No you're not. You're complaining that I'm just arbitrarily picking things for the sake of satisfying the bias of my own personal whims. This is exactly why you're such an annoying troll who's wasting my time. You're condescending, and you're denying that you are, in order to make my choices seem superficial, rather than as actual optimizations that are required for the best build.

Now to run through some points you make:
1) smithing level 100 will give a dagger more damage than smithing level 95, and it's pretty easy to max it, so why not

2) magic absorb is easy to get to 80% (atronach stone and atronach perk), and to max it you just have to make sure that you're a vampire with necromage before taking the alteration perk (which happens to be the easiest skill tree in the game to max out and reset, so there's really no pressure to get the sequence correct as long as you've grabbed everything). Like I said before, you can still die to a dragon's magic attack in a single pass even with 80% magic absorb and 30% magic resistance and 600 health.

3) about the conjured minions, don't make me repeat myself. "There's hardly any reason to suspect that the NPCs you summon will do what you actually want them to, to the target that you want them to, and at the exact time that you want them to." the summoned npcs are essentially a robot player that's competing with you for gameplay. with my build, i have options such as pickpocketing enemies, pacifying them, sniping individuals, or even paralyzing them. nobody should let summoned npcs take away their ability to make those kinds of decisions.

4) about the invisiblity + muffle, i was obviously talking about experiments conducted with quiet casting. in my bonus video for instance, i had a savestate where i would walk in with muffle + invisibility already casted (with quiet casting), and there was a pretty large circle of detection where i was still going to get shot at and swung at and followed. they could basically see me even though i was invisible. like i said (which i shouldn't have to repeat): invisibility is only good for two things- a)spotting an enemy before they spot you, and b)as a boost to sneaking. "you will be hidden that way period.." is a complete lie. i've tested that enough times to know for sure.

Video proof that using invisibility does nothing unless you're either far enough away or sneaking:

5) when i was talking about best dps, obviously dual wielding should've been excluded. a bow is the best dps because it requires the least for a sneak attack. the enemy could be flying, spread out, super high detection circle, etc. and the bow is the only thing versatile enough that you'd want to fall back on in a scenario that demanded the highest dps. you want to use enchants that don't require recharging for several reasons: efficiency, justice, freedom, and gameplay for instance. in every case, it's simply a hassle to have to worry about this. you already have things like arrows to worry about.

6) vampire gives huge bonuses to sneak and illusion. it lets you cast pacify on much higher level enemies. it makes your sneaking much stronger (see the video for why sneaking is so powerful and useful, even when you already have muffle and invisibility and quiet casting). the bonuses it gives to your damage and skill enchantments are very nice. everyone should use vampire mode.

7) there's plenty of reason to complain about two-handed. like i said, it blocks up the entire left hand, preventing you from casting invisibility. it doesn't give nearly as good sneak attacks as one-handed. it blocks you from casting the heal spell, or the paralyze spell. it's a novelty- something to try once or twice for the temporary fun of it only.

I would budge a little on block as a viable skill, but at level 100, there's just barely not enough perk points to waste on it. I can scrounge up 3 perk points from 'magic resistance' that I'm not using since I have 100% magic absorb. It's really not a necessary skill to include by any means. If I did include it, I'd at least want to max it out and take full advantage of it. Instead, at best it's a novelty to alleviate boredom and change things up. But, I already have that slot filled with things like paralyze and frenzy. The invisibility/dagger and bow setups are the main duality that have you covered no matter what scenario. Anything above those two is really just for rare backup circumstances that offer you more freedom.

The conjuration is just a big obnoxious hassle. There's no way you'll ever convince me to drop my 100% magic absorb for that kind of baggage and reduction in gameplay and freedom. It's the same with two-handed. Nobody should use two-handed, unless it's just for the heck of it.

 

[Harkin]

With more reading and processing, I actually think its a great build, a lot of flexibility in your escape options and ability to hop in and out of chaos when and wherever you like. Versatility is definately a strong point.

Not siding with anyone, merely my two cents.

Also each and everyone of us has the right to defend our own playstyle and preferences, respect for doing so. If I was to make a stealth like character I can see there's a lot of useful information here that I'd probably take note of.

I'm more of a make a lotta noise cause I want them to see the grim reaper before them kinda guy, so I charge in with a crowd of followers, sword blazing.

Conjuration is one of the only things that keeps me playing these days because of the various, endless varieties of Npc's you can reanimate, but I can see where you're coming from Scaleh in A.I being detrimental perhaps to sneak builds, but they are great allies with the right equips, enchants, especially for beserk mode playstyle.

Nice build anyhow, props for the ammount of effort put in aswell. Harkin out.

 

[MushroomGenius]

This is some great back-and-forth by both sides, arguments for and against well presented. OP, your research and efforts are to be commended!

Personally, I love the Conjuration tree, but I roleplay, so it's not always viable on every character. That being said, it's quite satisfying to double-conjure Dremora Lords or have your Thrall and Followers clear a room while you relax and sit in a chair and help yourself to the cheese, bread, and wine that Bandits so thoughfully laid out for you.

 

[Harkin]

This is some great back-and-forth by both sides, arguments for and against well presented. OP, your research and efforts are to be commended!

Personally, I love the Conjuration tree, but I roleplay, so it's not always viable on every character. That being said, it's quite satisfying to double-conjure Dremora Lords or have your Thrall and Followers clear a room while you relax and sit in a chair and help yourself to the cheese, bread, and wine that Bandits so thoughfully laid out for you.

Ah a Fellow Necromancer? Pretty sure you'd love the "Living with the Dead" Thrall Thread, we discuss Necromancy and trade knowledge/experiences!

 

[MushroomGenius]

This is some great back-and-forth by both sides, arguments for and against well presented. OP, your research and efforts are to be commended!

Personally, I love the Conjuration tree, but I roleplay, so it's not always viable on every character. That being said, it's quite satisfying to double-conjure Dremora Lords or have your Thrall and Followers clear a room while you relax and sit in a chair and help yourself to the cheese, bread, and wine that Bandits so thoughfully laid out for you.

Ah a Fellow Necromancer? Pretty sure you'd love the "Living with the Dead" Thrall Thread, we discuss Necromancy and trade knowledge/experiences!

Harkin, thanks... I was here when Adam's thread first started! Participated in it a bit back in April 2012! LOL...

It was nice (and shocking!) to see Adam's thread still going after all these years when I recently returned.

Apologies to Scaleh for the off-topicness.

 

[Schaleh]

I got to playing this build some more and put a lot of thought into your suggestions about self-nerfing. So, I made some slight, yet important, tweaks in this regard (I edited the original post too).

"
changes i've made to this build since publishing the following video:
1. got the dremora butler, and he's carrying my auriel's bow(instead of dragonbone bow) and dragonbone dagger
2. using the slow time shout (it and the butler have their own keybinding)
3. using mehrunes' razor instead of dragonbone dagger (to nerf myself a bit)
4. using bound bow instead of auriel's bow (to nerf myself a bit, + infinite ammo/semi-1 handed)
5. re-worked my skill distribution (click/drag <-L/R-> to scroll the perks at this link): skyrimcalculator /build/401895/best-level-100/perks

6. switched to elven armor set instead of glass set (elven is lightest in the game, but probably doesn't matter)
7. i no longer have 100% illusion reduction (now it's 96% from helm + chest)
8. my chest now has "99% magicka regen", which helps tremendously when in sunlight"

So, here's how it works:
my sneaking and archery buffs from gear aren't being nerfed (i'm proud of those and enjoy them too much).
SO, I figured out a happy medium between some things that I already wanted (mehrunes' razor and bound bow).
Basically, I'm just using Mehrunes' Razor, with the damage upgraded as high as I could get it without keeping seeker of might (something like 187).
My bow I'm using is the bound bow with the perks for it (the dmg one, as well as the cost reduction one, and the soul stealer one too). Its damage is 326.

I can still one hit kill a lot of enemies with the dagger, but there's also a significant number of enemies that take at least 2 hits. The bound bow will take 3 hits for those enemies, and has a very strong likelihood of taking 2 hits on the vast majority of enemies (I can use the bow to test what kind of enemies I'm actually facing too, but it's still obvious even when I'm doing sneak attacks with the dagger). The soul binding perk on the bound bow also can help me gauge the subtle differences in hp b/w different levels of enemies (grand/greater/common/lesser/etc.).

If I ever need the super weapons (340+ dmg dragonbone dagger and 1400+ dmg auriel's bow), they're always available on my butler. My goal though is to never use the butler no matter how badly I want him. So, I bring as many of the 195% fortify archery potions as I can make (for instance, I would've used these in the fight against Miraak, had I been using the bound bow). I also have the slow time shout for a massive dps boost, that enables me to kill a legendary dragon with the bound bow without using a potion and without too much hassle.

My key bindings on the razer hex naga mouse look like this:

1] skyrim paralyze/paci - presses 5(pacify) x2, then 6(paralyze)
2] presses the keyboard button 2(Mehrunes' Razor)
3] presses the keyboard button 4(grand healing)
4] skyrim shadowbloade - presses 1(invisibility) x2, then 2(Mehrunes' Razor)
5] skyrim bound bow inv - presses 3(bound bow) x2, then 1(invisibility)
6] skyrim pacify 2x - presses 5(pacify) x2


How my engagement protocols work:
depending on my mood, i'm usually walking around with either the [inivisibility/mehrunes' razor] or the [invisibility/bound bow]. if walking up to an enemy seems kinda excessive and risky, then i'll rock the bow instead of the dagger. if i do use the dagger, maybe i consider walking past the enemy without killing them, or simply taking a look in their pockets.

It's very rare that you ever need to use your other hotkeys (the spells: pacify, heal, and paralyze). Pacify you need for shielding friendly npcs from combat, sparing enemies' lives, and as an aoe emergency spell and/or just some fun swirly light green plops that makes everyone all peaceful. The heal spell you need to whip out only when there's some kind of health draining trap (twilight sepulcher area has one, the black books have a few, just not magic damage traps as you should have 100% magic absorb). The paralyze spell actually comes in very handy when an enemy is seemingly attempting to escape you (yes, it actually happens more often than you'd realize, especially to random encounter enemies that you haven't even attacked yet, but are chasing/escaping other npcs). I don't know if I'll ever really need my dagger to have its own exclusive mouse button keybinding, but I figured it might be preferable over alternatives. This build actually runs the minimum amount of keybindings that I'd want as well as the maximum. The butler and slow time shouts are bound to 7 and 8, which are on the top view of the mouse. [imgur Rz2Mk84.png]

When I kill things w/ the dagger, I'm not relying on my full sneaking potential, but it does help to have it maxed. The bow though is so cheap. I could even play the game naked with just the bound bow and still be able to kill things without being hit. It would be a little difficult and excessively time consuming, but that's just the nature of archery; it's not particularly sneak intensive. Although, you can never have enough sneak (it does help/gives you some freedom/is noticeable, but isn't critical to the success of most kills most of the time). Against Miraak and ebony warrior and plops like that, obviously you can never have enough sneak. And the damage on the bow you can make up simply w/ a potion that you'd only save for hardcore bosses, in addition to abusing the slow time shout for dps buff. This playstyle lets you actively control how OP you want to be, without nerfing the crap out of you and forcing you to play against yourself. There are very real advantages to using the bound bow and Mehrunes' Razor (infinite ammo is VERY nice, and the daedric artifact razor is also very fun and sexy looking, plus you get a good excuse to not use the fear enchant, because you need the magicka regen buff on the chest so you can cast non-illusion spells during daylight). So, it all works out perfectly.

I was testing this out today by doing a bunch of quests, and it was pretty amazing. Very strong, but not so outrageously OP that you lose touch with the game's sense of balance. Still plenty of game, without the worry/hassle/inefficiency/loss of gameplay immersion/etc. The keybindings really make it playable in my opinion.

I also tested having no gear and then sneak attacking enemies with an elven dagger (<=30 dmg weapon, on LEGENDARY difficulty) to see what's up with that. Turns out it's not that hard either to pull that off (but don't use the bound dagger, b/c that thing is too noisy). So, I'm not abusing my armor enchants that much, even though they're very badass at like 80% sneak/archery each piece (with vampire/necromage).