Supernatural AI

[Shari3979]

I use Ultimate Combat before I found out about SAI. And I like to see NPCs moving as fast as a vampire. An enemy sword to strike with the speed of a vampire's fist(even if I don't have time to block). And it's not that much unbalanced like you said: "ridicolous if you think a bandit may hit you 3 times and deal you 50 damage while you hit him once and instakill..." - if you say this in unbalanced then do things that can bring balance back; like increases damage resistance, or armor rating, so the bandits can not be kill that easily.

I only took a brief test. Now I'll wait for the new release to do extensive tests. Then will talk more about speed and balance. Because I am sure that I will find cracks in your arguments.

Have you given vanilla Dual Flurry perk to someone? And how you feel about a vanilla greatsword speed? Looks natural?

 

[Warrior Within]

Of course I added dual flurry to many ones that didnt have, but dual flurry is for 2 handed weaps... Why should iyo a bandit faster then dragonborn in fighting with a sword? I really wish to have just 1 reason... I may extend this idea to vamp perks... But do you think is really a good idea for some foes who doesnt have anything of supernatural acting all like jakie chan?

 

[Shari3979]

Dual Flurry is not for 2 handed weapons, it is for two 1H weapons. But I remove some conditions and now it is for everything. Playing the game at such a high speed is magnificent. Fighting with sword against an opponent who has the same high speed as you are is formidable. You should try it.
A bandit will not be faster than Dragonborn. Dragonborn has also at disposal the perk Dual Flurry. About the last thought, they already are supernatural, thanks to given spells. After all, what is the difference between a supernatural and one who use spells other than a different behavior, moral values or different degree of powers? From my point of view there is no supernaturals as you think about them. They are natural with different and greater abilities and powers. The only difference between a natural and a supernatural is that the natural didn't uncover his powers yet. And a spell user makes a step forward in that direction, but on possible different path.

For a bandit warrior it isn't necessary to be supernatural in order to have a faster sword strike, but there are bandits and bandits. Perhaps some of them shouldn't. All is up to you.
You said that different kind of vampires have different kind of speed and powers. If you do the same with different kind of bandits, it's fair enough.

 

[Warrior Within]

Mmm... admitting you almost convinced me about dual flurry to apply to all 1h weapons... because it comes from one-handed perks...

Edit: I am making a smarter tweak which will increase your melee speed accordingly to ppl/npc skills.

 

[Shari3979]

Are you using Levelers Tower? The Arena might be very udeful to test some of your creatures.
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/14152/?

I can't wait the new updated module humans and undead.

 

[Warrior Within]

Are you using Levelers Tower? The Arena might be very udeful to test some of your creatures.
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/14152/?

I can't wait the new updated module humans and undead.

Nice module indeed, I will take in consideration it :-)

Btw I use to summon creatures for testing purposes, of course some simplifications are welcomed as far as it's compatible.

 

[Shari3979]

I tested vampires, werewolves, Dragon Priests. The Arena includes all Skyrim creatures, Bandits, Thalmors, Draugr, Giants, Dwarven etc. And you have a spawn count, so you can bring in Arena as many creatures as you want, same kind or different kind to fight each other. You should definitely try it. Of course that you won't find in Arena the new creatures that SAI brings(ex:Abhorrent Troll).

You want to test a weapon or a spell? Arena is the place. You can teleport to the Tower from whereever you are. This mod has the best teleportation system for Skyrim. And you should see the Magic Door.

 

[Shari3979]

Mmm... admitting you almost convinced me about dual flurry to apply to all 1h weapons... because it comes from one-handed perks...

Edit: I am making a smarter tweak which will increase your melee speed accordingly to ppl/npc skills.

This tweak is valid for 2H weapons as well?

 

[Shari3979]

If you are a Sword User, I recommend you this mod:
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/9247/?
With this mod you can also block with a key(configurable in MCM Menu). You can block and bash with left 1H while you have two 1H equipped.
And other things.

 

[Warrior Within]

This tweak is valid for 2H weapons as well?

Of course eleseway I wouldnt do it!

Spoiler

You just have to apply the perk fix overhaul module then you gain automatically speed increase up to 38% faster accordingly to your skill if you own fighting/champion stance! (slightly faster then ex-dual flurry), while dual flurry perk now make you able to regen quickly (50-100% more) your stamina rate while you hand 2 weaps and I renamed it to Endure.

If you are a Sword User, I recommend you this mod:
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/9247/?
With this mod you can also block with a key(configurable in MCM Menu). You can block and bash with left 1H while you have two 1H equipped.

And other things.

sure I use this too! And is great to compensate the fact that you cant block... which would be quite unnatural without.

 

[Shari3979]

I am not sure I understand you correctly. I thought that you make only NPCs to speed up and not the player.

 

[Warrior Within]

I am not sure I understand you correctly. I thought that you make only NPCs to speed up and not the player.

You mean dragonborn should fight slower then bandits?

 

[Shari3979]

That is not the case for me. That's why I suggested you to increase the speed for bandits. But I understand your point of view.
The spoiler post concerns me. I have perks edited in One Handed Perk Tree. Dual Flurry is among them. And is not only about speed. I have Fist weapons added to Dual Flurry perks.
The idea of that tweak is great and I like it. But the things just got complicated for me. Hmmm...We'll see what can be done.

 

[Warrior Within]

I have Fist weapons added to Dual Flurry perks.

That's the point which can be covered: what is needed to compensate the 1h and 2h speed ratio unsing fists only?

Well I may offer several solution: I may put this ability as sideeffect with 1h speed too to Fighting stance but... this would definitely sounds much unreasonable imo.

So reasonable solutions may be 2:

- Including fists speed gain as sideeffect to dual flurry (which is now renamed to "Endure") in addition to the stamina rate bonus provided.

OR

- adding a perk which is named: Martial fists which increase your fists speed by a certain amount in the light armor perk tree if you wear a light full set.

Any opinion?

Ps:
If anyone else of the forum wish to give his contribute too is welcome

 

[Shari3979]

It's not that simple. I have mods that use Dual Flurry Perks and it's not only about speed. The problem is much bigger. I have the entire OneHanded Perk tree edited.

For me the solution is:
A 1. Don't touch Dual Flurry Perks. Do that changes(with Stamina) to other perk and don't touch any other.(I am not sure if Fighting Stance Perk is edited or something else is only connected to it.)
2. Give Dual Flurry Perks also to enemies with two handed weapons. As it is, they won't benefit from it, so you should be ok with this.
3. I restore the new perk that you made changes. This way I can use my OH perk tree( if Fighting Stance is not edited)
or
B If you make a separate module and if you complete the point 2 from above I will simply don't use this module.

I really want to experience your tweak idea, but if you also edit Fighting Stance Perk I don't think I can.

 

[Warrior Within]

So for one-handed tree consider that you keep all other edits for all the perks.

What changes:
- fighting stance (which enable you to fight faster too)
- dual flurry (which increase your stamina rate)

so this mod is not going to change anything else of the tree.

Imo is a fair gain.

Hopely these infos comes in handy for you: in case you were thinking you were gona loose your entire tree of changes.

 

[Shari3979]

Yes, they do. Thank you.
If it don't change anything else in my game regarding OH Perk tree, it's ok. When can I test it?
Just to be prepared: Did you give perks like Armsman or Bladesman to bandits or other enemies?

 

[Warrior Within]

Yes, they do. Thank you.
If it don't change anything else in my game regarding OH Perk tree, it's ok. When can I test it?

When I will release my next version and of course probably Dragonborn support will be included.

Just to be prepare: Did you give perks like Armsman or Bladesman to bandits or other enemies?

No for armsman: it's useless or worst overpowering. They already gain enough damage increase bonus from perks and others.

They already own 3x damage (instead 1.5 of the player) from skill gain as default.
In addition they own my customized special perk tweak addition which give them damage increase according to their health and rank (pain system).

Bethesda didnt add the armsman perk for this reason.

 

[Shari3979]

Enchanted weapons don't seem to make damage to a Dragon Priest. Is this how is supposed to be? I only tested two kind.

 

[Warrior Within]

Enchanted like and magic like are pretty different. It may become a bit complex to explain: they may deal different ways.

A vampire attacked with an enchanted weapon with fire, will get hurt and due to fire he will take full damage and fire will unable regen too from him.
Btw also a magic weapon may hurt him, but in that case will look less effective due to the fact that the vampire will keep regenerating.

While a vampire may be killed by ench fire or magic weap, he is resistant and immortal (exception made from neck cut - a very brutal strike) from std weaps.

If we are talking about some special creatures such like ghosts... an enchanted weap will apply only the enchanted effect (for istance +10 fire damage) if this weap is not magic too!

Some other more difficult creatures may own several resistances and immunities: Dragonpriests are just an example.

They will be immune to standard weapons, so even simply enchanted weaps are considered standard and you will deal only the ench damage to them.

If your weap has a combination of some kinds (ench+magic just to keep the example linear), Dragonpriests will be anyway resistance to that combination.

The only way to bypass this is to hand a dragonbone one (very rare weapon kind).

Other creatures may own different kind of similarities and their thoughness will scale according to these innate abilities.

Another ex:

Fire atronach is weak to frost. You will deal full damage if you weap a frost ench weap (even not magic)
elseway you will deal 50% with a magic one.


So it mean:
-enchanted is not magic
-magic may be not enchanted

Try to seek and buy the Supernatural AI ingame book, it's explained also there :-)