Supernatural AI
- Thread starter Warrior Within
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Warrior Within
Member
I am afraid they will be overpowered now; go inside a forest you should be able to catch one then let me know...
I will. But first I go and see if I can find the ones I left in Solstheim, since I am there now.
Overpower? There is no such thing from my point of view. In fact I am afraid that you will not make them faster as I would like them to be. We'll see.
I saw in CK the werewolves you edited and I click on animation to see how fast they are moving. There I saw the running on horizontal. My question is: I will see this behavior in game: running on horizontal finalized with a jump with bite or knockdown?
Overpower? There is no such thing from my point of view. In fact I am afraid that you will not make them faster as I would like them to be. We'll see.
I saw in CK the werewolves you edited and I click on animation to see how fast they are moving. There I saw the running on horizontal. My question is: I will see this behavior in game: running on horizontal finalized with a jump with bite or knockdown?
Warrior Within
Member
Just enough if at least they will be playable 
Now the conclusions:
The damn werewolves in Solstheim are sooo lazy(they arre moving slow as Trolls do). No affect on them. Perhaps I should have mentioned that they were in human form like companions?
I went in the forest of Falkreath. I found one very quickly. A Beastmaster. So I tested him. Movement speed is OK. I can barely avoid his attacks with Wirlwind Sprint( 0 cooldown). The speed of hand attacks are OK too. You were worried about werewolves being overpowered, but they also have two weaknesses: the howl and the large movement of the hand attack which movement offers you the chance for a successful block. So in conclusion I am very pleased with what you have done. If you want to increase their speed even more I WILL BE MORE HAPPY, but I can't ask for more because of other users. Your choice. Two incidents I like to mention during this fight though:
After used several times of Unrelenting Force, the beast frozen for a few seconds(10-20). A second frozen were happened using a Fire Fist from Arcane Fist mod. But this one were a bit different. If in the first one he was complete without move, in the second one he frozen in some horizontal position close to the ground on side. trying to run. When I got close he did try a hand attack(duration: as the first one). I don't know if this was caused by my game or is it a problem with your mod. I just thought it is worth mention it.
About the horizontal movement: They are using it every time if the distance to the target is big enough. I don't have time now for more. Will talk soon. I want your opinion on something. But it's not related to this mod, so I'll send you a PM.
The damn werewolves in Solstheim are sooo lazy(they arre moving slow as Trolls do). No affect on them. Perhaps I should have mentioned that they were in human form like companions?
I went in the forest of Falkreath. I found one very quickly. A Beastmaster. So I tested him. Movement speed is OK. I can barely avoid his attacks with Wirlwind Sprint( 0 cooldown). The speed of hand attacks are OK too. You were worried about werewolves being overpowered, but they also have two weaknesses: the howl and the large movement of the hand attack which movement offers you the chance for a successful block. So in conclusion I am very pleased with what you have done. If you want to increase their speed even more I WILL BE MORE HAPPY, but I can't ask for more because of other users. Your choice. Two incidents I like to mention during this fight though:
After used several times of Unrelenting Force, the beast frozen for a few seconds(10-20). A second frozen were happened using a Fire Fist from Arcane Fist mod. But this one were a bit different. If in the first one he was complete without move, in the second one he frozen in some horizontal position close to the ground on side. trying to run. When I got close he did try a hand attack(duration: as the first one). I don't know if this was caused by my game or is it a problem with your mod. I just thought it is worth mention it.
About the horizontal movement: They are using it every time if the distance to the target is big enough. I don't have time now for more. Will talk soon. I want your opinion on something. But it's not related to this mod, so I'll send you a PM.
Warrior Within
Member
Mmm really there are werewolves stages??? I am not supporting Solstheim yet but what exactly mean: "they were in human form"?
Are there in Solstheim npc who can turn into werewolf at command without being it when you meet them first time???
It's surely a key info so when I'll finish my updates on SAI basic, I'll start working on these npc who may turn to make them doing so if they feel in danger!
About the tests, thanks for making it, I am satisfied about the results: I managed the werewolves so they get better attacks scaled according to level.. I will make tests myself too to be sure as now I am aware you are a very good but also tough player (which I appreciate) but not everyone else may accept, even if my module is designed mainly for people like you.
About the frozen effect I didnt understand yet what happened in detail: you frozen the werewolf with unrelenting force? This sound really weird, the werewolf are set to be immune to strong unrelenting force but the frozen effect is something that sound inherited from another module...
Maybe explain better also what you mean about "horizontal movement" behavoral.
Are there in Solstheim npc who can turn into werewolf at command without being it when you meet them first time???
It's surely a key info so when I'll finish my updates on SAI basic, I'll start working on these npc who may turn to make them doing so if they feel in danger!
About the tests, thanks for making it, I am satisfied about the results: I managed the werewolves so they get better attacks scaled according to level.. I will make tests myself too to be sure as now I am aware you are a very good but also tough player (which I appreciate) but not everyone else may accept, even if my module is designed mainly for people like you.
About the frozen effect I didnt understand yet what happened in detail: you frozen the werewolf with unrelenting force? This sound really weird, the werewolf are set to be immune to strong unrelenting force but the frozen effect is something that sound inherited from another module...
Maybe explain better also what you mean about "horizontal movement" behavoral.
First I want to notice two aspects of their AI: 1. the fast short side movement and 2. sometimes when they came to you for attack they don't stop right in front of you; they passed you a little then turn for attack. Very nice!
Not far from Miraak's Temple there is a place(I don't know how to call it, but next time when I play I''ll give you the place's name) where they were gathered. Exploring Solstheim I ran into that place and I saw 4 humans sitting: 2 males and 2 females. So i approached to see what is there. Never crossed my mind what they really are. When I've got closer, I got the first warning to leave.
I ignored it, and walked around. I got another warning. I ignored that too(no intention for aggression from my part). Suddenly a male stands up and became aggressive. Guess what? They turned into werewolves.
About the frozen:
Well it's not frozen as magical effect. I used Unrelenting Force against him several times. The strong force thrown him away. When he wanted to get up, that is when happened. In other words he got stuck in that position(like a baby in the womb). Same happened when I used the Fire Fist. The force knocked him down and somehow he ended up on a side on the ground. At this point he got frozen(stuck), but not in complete freeze like first time. His legs were moving in the air as he does when he is running, only that couldn't happened because of this weird position. Also his arms attacked me (or tried to) when I got closer. I don't remember quite well, but second time I think that he regained the stand pose with a little help from me. The first time, the situation got back to normal by itself. Unrelenting Force didn't have any effect while he was stuck.
About the Forces effects, the weak force didn't affect him at all. Unfortunately I don't remember about Fus-Ro.
Please reconsider the immunity to Strong Unrelenting Force.
In my opinion the shout is so powerful that even the dragons should tremble under the power of this shout. Of course, this is my opinion. Anyway, I have other powers...HeHe!
The horizontal movement is running like a wolf, a dog. I especially wanted to test this behavior, so I took distance to see. And he came to me running like a regular wolf. Only a few steps of course because of the short distance(the beast is kind of big). I couldn't go to far because he could have left or start searching for me.
Things were like this: I thrown him away with Unrelenting Force then I took some distance, the Werewolf stood up, made his howl, turn to me, starting in two legs, the ran on all four members( the most part of the distance) and again in two legs when he was close.
Never saw a Werewolf running in all four members? It's more impressive the seeing one running in two legs.
When I first arrived in the forest I found him chasing some wolfs.
I watched. I saw then too.
I just found out about their horizontal movement.
That's why I asked: "I will see this behavior in game: running on horizontal finalized with a jump with bite or knockdown?" To see this kind of attack will be awesome.
Not far from Miraak's Temple there is a place(I don't know how to call it, but next time when I play I''ll give you the place's name) where they were gathered. Exploring Solstheim I ran into that place and I saw 4 humans sitting: 2 males and 2 females. So i approached to see what is there. Never crossed my mind what they really are. When I've got closer, I got the first warning to leave.
I ignored it, and walked around. I got another warning. I ignored that too(no intention for aggression from my part). Suddenly a male stands up and became aggressive. Guess what? They turned into werewolves.
About the frozen:
Well it's not frozen as magical effect. I used Unrelenting Force against him several times. The strong force thrown him away. When he wanted to get up, that is when happened. In other words he got stuck in that position(like a baby in the womb). Same happened when I used the Fire Fist. The force knocked him down and somehow he ended up on a side on the ground. At this point he got frozen(stuck), but not in complete freeze like first time. His legs were moving in the air as he does when he is running, only that couldn't happened because of this weird position. Also his arms attacked me (or tried to) when I got closer. I don't remember quite well, but second time I think that he regained the stand pose with a little help from me. The first time, the situation got back to normal by itself. Unrelenting Force didn't have any effect while he was stuck.
About the Forces effects, the weak force didn't affect him at all. Unfortunately I don't remember about Fus-Ro.
Please reconsider the immunity to Strong Unrelenting Force.
In my opinion the shout is so powerful that even the dragons should tremble under the power of this shout. Of course, this is my opinion. Anyway, I have other powers...HeHe!
The horizontal movement is running like a wolf, a dog. I especially wanted to test this behavior, so I took distance to see. And he came to me running like a regular wolf. Only a few steps of course because of the short distance(the beast is kind of big). I couldn't go to far because he could have left or start searching for me.
Things were like this: I thrown him away with Unrelenting Force then I took some distance, the Werewolf stood up, made his howl, turn to me, starting in two legs, the ran on all four members( the most part of the distance) and again in two legs when he was close.
Never saw a Werewolf running in all four members? It's more impressive the seeing one running in two legs.
When I first arrived in the forest I found him chasing some wolfs.
I watched. I saw then too.
I just found out about their horizontal movement.
That's why I asked: "I will see this behavior in game: running on horizontal finalized with a jump with bite or knockdown?" To see this kind of attack will be awesome.
Warrior Within
Member
I am afraid you didnt encounter a Werewolf Alpha yet :-|
these are all beta werewolves kids :-|
what level are you? when you'll meet a true werewolf this will be you I think ->
these are all beta werewolves kids :-|
what level are you? when you'll meet a true werewolf this will be you I think ->
Level 91
The name of the Werewolf on the screen was: Werewolf Beastmaster.
You think? HeHe. Where do I find an Alpha? I am curious how well will resist to my Fire Fist.
If that werewolf I tested was a beta, I can only be glad when I will meet an Alpha. More power, more speed.
Well, I was going to reveal another werewolf weakness , but I'll do it after I encounter an Alpha.
One last thing to report: The Werewolves from Solstheim were immune to paralyze. Also to Stone Curse( a spell from Apocalypse Spell Package)
The name of the Werewolf on the screen was: Werewolf Beastmaster.
You think? HeHe. Where do I find an Alpha? I am curious how well will resist to my Fire Fist.
If that werewolf I tested was a beta, I can only be glad when I will meet an Alpha. More power, more speed.
Well, I was going to reveal another werewolf weakness , but I'll do it after I encounter an Alpha.
One last thing to report: The Werewolves from Solstheim were immune to paralyze. Also to Stone Curse( a spell from Apocalypse Spell Package)
There is a problem with SAI, SAI DD patch and Deadly Dragons. Using BOSS for load order your mods come after DD. i was forced to leave Solstheim because the lack of dragon souls so I came to Kynesgrove to continue the main quest. When I arrived at the burial site, I found Sahloknir outside not buried as he should have been, bigger than usual and complete. Removing the DD patch made him smaller. Place SAI before DD made things normal.
Deadly Dragons is the only dragon mod installed.
Deadly Dragons is the only dragon mod installed.
Warrior Within
Member
Beastmaster is a bit more then a beta one... Aplha are others.. you will find.
I am improving werewolves in next release too.
Btw DD Patch should come next to DD it's normal, and they get bigger size too because of the patch which apply SAI perks too.
Which problem you found a part the position of the dragon?
I am improving werewolves in next release too.
Btw DD Patch should come next to DD it's normal, and they get bigger size too because of the patch which apply SAI perks too.
Which problem you found a part the position of the dragon?
Warrior Within
Member
Only abnormal behavior, but I didn't play further and I am not going to. this way. I saw what increased size can do. In my opinion, increased size, (after a limit) is a potential bomb. Definitely will be issues in narrow spaces, like Northwind Mine.
Warrior Within
Member
I will fix in the next release this.. Which could be in size the limit which can be reached iyo? 30-40% or less?
As temp fix: put deadly dragon after sai and remove dd patch if you having glitch issue related to sizes.
As temp fix: put deadly dragon after sai and remove dd patch if you having glitch issue related to sizes.
I can't say for sure. And is different from different species. Perhaps, like you said, 30-40%, perhaps more. Depends. Definitely we are not talking about game breaking.
I played for a while ERSO 02(normal version) where the bears were a bit larger. SkyMoMod introduced sabercats a bit smaller. There was no issue with these except for the killing animation.
ERSO 02 – Enhanced Fauna and Monsters for Skyrim; there is an option of this module which increase the size of the Giants and Mammoths. I am not sure how much(around 80%) he did it, but that version is trouble maker.
With dragons, things are more sensitive. I wouldn't touch their size. (I know that a bigger size is more impressive)
My recommendation would be to make a separate module if you really want to edit dragons. You made patch only for DD, but a lot of users play with Erkeil's EMD, Bellyanhes new species, Dovahkriid-The Dragon Lords.
I played for a while ERSO 02(normal version) where the bears were a bit larger. SkyMoMod introduced sabercats a bit smaller. There was no issue with these except for the killing animation.
ERSO 02 – Enhanced Fauna and Monsters for Skyrim; there is an option of this module which increase the size of the Giants and Mammoths. I am not sure how much(around 80%) he did it, but that version is trouble maker.
With dragons, things are more sensitive. I wouldn't touch their size. (I know that a bigger size is more impressive)
My recommendation would be to make a separate module if you really want to edit dragons. You made patch only for DD, but a lot of users play with Erkeil's EMD, Bellyanhes new species, Dovahkriid-The Dragon Lords.
Warrior Within
Member
no worries about the other modules, if someone prefer other to mine he can choose his favorite one; players are still able to match all mods after mine in order list so to overwrite my changes if they like both but prefer this or that over related to some particular creature.
I agree with you to dragons btw so I am fixing it right now.
I had some minor glitch issue but didnt imagine it would be caused by size till you make me notice about it...
I will make a newer version with another configuration related to sizes and check.
I agree with you to dragons btw so I am fixing it right now.
I had some minor glitch issue but didnt imagine it would be caused by size till you make me notice about it...
I will make a newer version with another configuration related to sizes and check.
Other aspects should be taken in consideration when a creature size is altered. For example: If you increase Werewolves size above some limit, they will be forced to skip the horizontal running animation.
The answer to this question wasn't clear for me, so I'll ask again:I will see this behavior in game: running on horizontal finalized with a jump with bite or knockdown? Because, if the answer in No, I have an idea.
The answer to this question wasn't clear for me, so I'll ask again:I will see this behavior in game: running on horizontal finalized with a jump with bite or knockdown? Because, if the answer in No, I have an idea.
Warrior Within
Member
You mean the player's side animation used to when you deal the final strike on the victim that trigger hit/slap face animation?
I need definitely to understand which animation is/you mean with horizontal running you cite..
Npc werewolves I didnt notice any changes in animation change from size 0.8 (smaller omega werewolf) to 1.5 like (alpha vagr one)
It need to be clear exactly what you mean?
If is about the jump you do when you are in best form (cited in previously response to your first question), they dont do it even if I wish it could be applied on player from werewolf npc.
If is something else that use to trigger an animation, let me know I'll check myself in an eye blink!
Edit: doublechecked I understood about the run thing! I am fixing it right now, thank you.
Btw I still didnt understand the animation issue finalized to knockdown yet!
Look for WW_SprintAllFour.hkx in CK_Actors/Actor/Actor/WerewolfBeastRace/EnchWerewolf01 - This is what I called horizontal movement.(sprint in all members)
I looked at the other animations that werewolves have but I didn't see what I was talking about. Perhaps I didn't express myself clear
enough. Sometimes is hard for me to write in English what I want.
So, by "running on horizontal finalized with a jump with bite or knockdown" I meant a Werewolf that execute the attack like a wolf.
How attack a wolf? a small jump with bite. When a wolf bite, the player don't move at all. But if you could add knockdown effect to that bite, the player will be thrown at the ground. So, the question is if it would be possible to add a wolf's attack into Werewolves arsenal and put the knockdown effect in it? (I saw the effect working fine with arms attack).
Werewolves, in all attack animations with jump saw in CK, use the arms.
I looked at the other animations that werewolves have but I didn't see what I was talking about. Perhaps I didn't express myself clear
enough. Sometimes is hard for me to write in English what I want.
So, by "running on horizontal finalized with a jump with bite or knockdown" I meant a Werewolf that execute the attack like a wolf.
How attack a wolf? a small jump with bite. When a wolf bite, the player don't move at all. But if you could add knockdown effect to that bite, the player will be thrown at the ground. So, the question is if it would be possible to add a wolf's attack into Werewolves arsenal and put the knockdown effect in it? (I saw the effect working fine with arms attack).
Werewolves, in all attack animations with jump saw in CK, use the arms.
Warrior Within
Member
I can understand now exactly what you mean: unfortunatly no, without animation would be impossible to me to add a "jump knockdown" attack like regular wolves or sabrecats, I attempted to make npc werewolves jump-attack and knockdown you just like player do in some cases but I am not sure about which is the right spell that trigger that case, but I definitely think is just a kill move...
I am going btw to fix sizes up to a limit of original... then some more tweaks with spells you'll be impressed to see in my next release.
I am going btw to fix sizes up to a limit of original... then some more tweaks with spells you'll be impressed to see in my next release.
