Storm cloaks are hypocrites

[Raijin]

I hardly use shouts AT ALL, like never actually use them.

No, really, I do not use them, like, at all. In fact, my characters aren't even Dragonborn anymore.

But you are technically the Dragonborn. That is what you are. Why did you buy Skyrim when you're not going to take an advantage of the power that the developers give you? I do still find it bullplops. I find it hard to believe that you don't use the shouts to escape from dangers.... unless if you have your game set on easy.

 

[Jeremius]

No, really, I do not use them, like, at all. In fact, my characters aren't even Dragonborn anymore.

But you are technically the Dragonborn. That is what you are. Why did you buy Skyrim when you're not going to take an advantage of the power that the developers give you? I do still find it bullpl***. I find it hard to believe that you don't use the shouts to escape from dangers.... unless if you have your game set on easy.

IF you never to do the main questline, you are technically not Dragonborn.

 

[Anouck]

No, really, I do not use them, like, at all. In fact, my characters aren't even Dragonborn anymore.

But you are technically the Dragonborn. That is what you are. Why did you buy Skyrim when you're not going to take an advantage of the power that the developers give you? I do still find it bullpl***. I find it hard to believe that you don't use the shouts to escape from dangers.... unless if you have your game set on easy.

IF you never to do the main questline, you are technically not Dragonborn.

If you never do the main questline, you are technically still Dragonborn. The only difference is that the world will never know, and that you will never discover it.

Dragonborns (key being 'born') are blessed with dragon blood by Akatosh. The blood that is running through your veins, doesn't all of the sudden vanish because of you not doing the main questline.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

They are not hypocrites, just too blind to the see the hand that the Thalmor have in their little rebellion.

What I find amusing, is how people speak of the 'hand of the Thalmor' in their little rebellion - when the entire Empire is basically run by the Thalmor. The Civil War might be of use to the AD, but it is especially the obedience of the Empire that makes things easy for them.

What I also find amusing, is how Imperial defenders use the Empire being unprepared in the Great War, that the White-Gold Concordat was needed because the Empire had no choice as a shield. The Empire is unable to properly defend it's citizens, so when those citizens feel they have to look after themselves. They're wrong for it.

The Empire was unprepared for the Great War: The Empire was warned, many times about the motives of the Thalmor, about the dangers of the Thalmor... by the Blades and Penitus Oculatus. Not only that, a book we find in Skyrim then shows us they were warned desperately by an Altmer who escaped the Thalmor.

Not since Potentate Ocato has anyone in the Empire listened to me. I beseech any and all citizens of this renowned Empire to heed my words! The Thalmor must be stopped, before it is too late.

The Empire had no choice!: This is often mentioned when pointing out the White-Gold Concordat is nearly exactly the same as the Thalmor Ultimatum. I don't understand why they use this, are they asking me to give the Empire a pass for the sorry state they're in?

Imperial leadership has allowed the Empire to decay, and weaken, being caught unprepared after they were already warned. Okay, so the Empire wasn't able to do more to protect their citizens from the Great War, or the Thalmor Justiciar's afterwards.

I feel one should have asked this question:

If the Empire is unable to protect the citizens of the provinces, in exchange for the taxes and resources they take off the people. How do you justify siding with them? Why should vassals and people uphold their duty to the Empire, when the Empire is failing to uphold theirs.

The Empire are hypocrites.

 

[Jeremius]

But you are technically the Dragonborn. That is what you are. Why did you buy Skyrim when you're not going to take an advantage of the power that the developers give you? I do still find it bullpl***. I find it hard to believe that you don't use the shouts to escape from dangers.... unless if you have your game set on easy.

IF you never to do the main questline, you are technically not Dragonborn.

If you never do the main questline, you are technically still Dragonborn. The only difference is that the world will never know, and that you will never discover it.

Dragonborns (key being 'born') are blessed with dragon blood by Akatosh. The blood that is running through your veins, doesn't all of the sudden vanish because of you not doing the main questline.

But if you never learn you are DragonBorn, how can you be DragonBorn?

 

[W'rkncacnter]

IF you never to do the main questline, you are technically not Dragonborn.

If you never do the main questline, you are technically still Dragonborn. The only difference is that the world will never know, and that you will never discover it.

Dragonborns (key being 'born') are blessed with dragon blood by Akatosh. The blood that is running through your veins, doesn't all of the sudden vanish because of you not doing the main questline.

But if you never learn you are DragonBorn, how can you be DragonBorn?

Technically speaking, you can still read the word walls even though you cannot unlock the power without dragon souls.

That being said, I rarely do the main quest anymore myself. I tend to find the dragons somewhat annoying and I always forget to use the shouts. Those characters that don't start the main quest I never consider them to be Dragonborn - but that is more of a RP thing.

 

[Jeremius]

If you never do the main questline, you are technically still Dragonborn. The only difference is that the world will never know, and that you will never discover it.

Dragonborns (key being 'born') are blessed with dragon blood by Akatosh. The blood that is running through your veins, doesn't all of the sudden vanish because of you not doing the main questline.

But if you never learn you are DragonBorn, how can you be DragonBorn?

Technically speaking, you can still read the word walls even though you cannot unlock the power without dragon souls.

That being said, I rarely do the main quest anymore myself. I tend to find the dragons somewhat annoying and I always forget to use the shouts. Those characters that don't start the main quest I never consider them to be Dragonborn - but that is more of a RP thing.

Technically, one cannot be DragonBorn if they never do the questline, even reading word walls does not mean anything.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Technically, one cannot be DragonBorn if they never do the questline, even reading word walls does not mean anything.

That depends on how you RP the character. Being Dragonborn doesn't require you to save the known world.

A Dragonborn, (transliterated from DOVAhKIiN to Dovahkiin in the Dragon language), is a rare individual who has been born with the blood and soul of a Dragon, but the body of a mortal, and can naturally learn and speak their ancient and powerful tongue, called the Thu'um.

Source

 

[Kross]

But if you never learn you are DragonBorn, how can you be DragonBorn?
(...)
Technically, one cannot be DragonBorn if they never do the questline, even reading word walls does not mean anything.

Hahaha, that's absolute nonsense! Dragonborn are born dragonborn, it's not something they become the first time they slay a dragon (Tiber Septim never killed any dragons). And if you had never learned that the Earth orbits the Sun, would that have meant that it didn't? Of course not. Things are what they are whether you know about it or not. The character is dragonborn even if you never do the questline.

 

[Jeremius]

But if you never learn you are DragonBorn, how can you be DragonBorn?
(...)
Technically, one cannot be DragonBorn if they never do the questline, even reading word walls does not mean anything.

Hahaha, that's absolute nonsense! Dragonborn are born dragonborn, it's not something they become the first time they slay a dragon (Tiber Septim never killed any dragons). And if you had never learned that the Earth orbits the Sun, would that have meant that it didn't? Of course not. Things are what they are whether you know about it or not. The character is dragonborn even if you never do the questline.

Can't use shouts, no quest to recognize as dragonborn. Makes perfect sense to me. Just because one is "born" a dragonborn, does not mean they are indeed Dragonborn if they do not know they are.

You can't be something you do not recognize. You cannot be DragonBorn if you never unlock the power of Dragonborn, or slay any dragons. No recognizes you as Dragonborn so you never know you are dragonborn therefore are not dragonborn.

 

[Kross]

But if you never learn you are DragonBorn, how can you be DragonBorn?
(...)
Technically, one cannot be DragonBorn if they never do the questline, even reading word walls does not mean anything.

Hahaha, that's absolute nonsense! Dragonborn are born dragonborn, it's not something they become the first time they slay a dragon (Tiber Septim never killed any dragons). And if you had never learned that the Earth orbits the Sun, would that have meant that it didn't? Of course not. Things are what they are whether you know about it or not. The character is dragonborn even if you never do the questline.

Can't use shouts, no quest to recognize as dragonborn. Makes perfect sense to me. Just because one is "born" a dragonborn, does not mean they are indeed Dragonborn if they do not know they are.

Can't use shouts because they can't absorb the power to do so from any dragons. If they encountered dragons without doing the questline, they could. Your point doesn't stand.
You don't have to be recognized as dragonborn to be dragonborn. You are dragonborn whether anybody (including yourself) knows about it or not.
One is exactly dragonborn because one is born dragonborn, even if one doesn't know it. You can be born the bastard son of Uriel Septim VII and never know about it, and you'll still be capable of lighting the dragonfires.

 

[Jeremius]

Hahaha, that's absolute nonsense! Dragonborn are born dragonborn, it's not something they become the first time they slay a dragon (Tiber Septim never killed any dragons). And if you had never learned that the Earth orbits the Sun, would that have meant that it didn't? Of course not. Things are what they are whether you know about it or not. The character is dragonborn even if you never do the questline.

Can't use shouts, no quest to recognize as dragonborn. Makes perfect sense to me. Just because one is "born" a dragonborn, does not mean they are indeed Dragonborn if they do not know they are.

Can't use shouts because they can't absorb the power to do so from any dragons. If they encountered dragons without doing the questline, they could. Your point doesn't stand.
You don't have to be recognized as dragonborn to be dragonborn. You are dragonborn whether anybody (including yourself) knows about it or not.
One is exactly dragonborn because one is born dragonborn, even if one doesn't know it. You can be born the bastard son of Uriel Septim VII and never know about it, and you'll still be capable of lighting the dragonfires.

There aren't any dragons unless you do the questline, therefore cant do any shouts. Without absorbing dragons, how can one recognize the character as Dragonborn, outside of them being the player character?

The character is not dragonborn by virtue of being born. They are Dragonborn by unlocking that power. If you never unlock it, that power is just not there.

 

[Kross]

You can't be something you do not recognize. You cannot be DragonBorn if you never unlock the power of Dragonborn, or slay any dragons. No recognizes you as Dragonborn so you never know you are dragonborn therefore are not dragonborn.

And to reply to your edit: You are what you are whether you recognize it or not. If nobody ever told you you were descended from apes, you still would be, even if you didn't recognize it. And the power of the dragonborn is the dragon soul, which you have whether you like it or not. The power allows you to learn shouts quicker and absorb power from dragons, but those are just manifestations of the dragonborn power. The power is the soul which you get the moment you are born dragonborn.
All that is required to be dragonborn is the be born dragonborn. Nothing else matters.

 

[Jeremius]

You can't be something you do not recognize. You cannot be DragonBorn if you never unlock the power of Dragonborn, or slay any dragons. No recognizes you as Dragonborn so you never know you are dragonborn therefore are not dragonborn.

And to reply to your edit: You are what you are whether you recognize it or not. If nobody ever told you you were descended from apes, you still would be, even if you didn't recognize it. And the power of the dragonborn is the dragon soul, which you have whether you like it or not. The power allows you to learn shouts quicker and absorb power from dragons, but those are just manifestations of the dragonborn power. The power is the soul which you get the moment you are born dragonborn.
All that is required to be dragonborn is the be born dragonborn. Nothing else matters.

IF you do not unlock the power of Dragonborn, you can never use the power, which means the Dragonborn is locked inside until you do.

If you do not do the main questline and unlock that power, then being born the "dragonborn" means nothing.

 

[Kross]

You can't be something you do not recognize. You cannot be DragonBorn if you never unlock the power of Dragonborn, or slay any dragons. No recognizes you as Dragonborn so you never know you are dragonborn therefore are not dragonborn.

And to reply to your edit: You are what you are whether you recognize it or not. If nobody ever told you you were descended from apes, you still would be, even if you didn't recognize it. And the power of the dragonborn is the dragon soul, which you have whether you like it or not. The power allows you to learn shouts quicker and absorb power from dragons, but those are just manifestations of the dragonborn power. The power is the soul which you get the moment you are born dragonborn.
All that is required to be dragonborn is the be born dragonborn. Nothing else matters.

IF you do not unlock the power of Dragonborn, you can never use the power, which means the Dragonborn is locked inside until you do.

Whether you unlock the power or not doesn't matter. Having the power in the first place is what makes you dragonborn, not using it. Same as Martin Septim. He was dragonborn and capable of lighting the dragonfires, even when he didn't know about it.
He didn't become dragonborn when he lit the dragonfires, he lit the dragonfires because he already was dragonborn.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

IF you do not unlock the power of Dragonborn, you can never use the power, which means the Dragonborn is locked inside until you do.

Locked inside, yes. I.e. you are the dragonborn you just aren't aware of it or reject it.

As way of comparison, if a person is born in the US as a citizen but their parents move immediately afterward and never tell their child that they are a citizen does it make it any less true? No, they remain a citizen. Recognition of that status is required to enjoy the benefits it carries with it, but ignorance of it doesn't render it false.

 

[Jeremius]

IF you do not unlock the power of Dragonborn, you can never use the power, which means the Dragonborn is locked inside until you do.

Locked inside, yes. I.e. you are the dragonborn you just aren't aware of it or reject it.

As way of comparison, if a person is born in the US as a citizen but their parents move immediately afterward and never tell their child that they are a citizen does it make it any less true? No, they remain a citizen. Recognition of that status is required to enjoy the benefits it carries with it, but ignorance of it doesn't render it false.

Being Dragonborn is like Being good at the Piano naturally. If I never play the piano, am I really naturally good at it?

Just being born something means nothing if you do not use it. Dragonborn is never truly Dragonborn without unlocking that power, so being born the dragonborn is pointless.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Being Dragonborn is like Being good at the Piano naturally. If I never play the piano, am I really naturally good at it?

Just being born something means nothing if you do not use it. Dragonborn is never truly Dragonborn without unlocking that power, so being born the dragonborn is pointless.

Dragonborn is a descriptor. It descibes a state of being (i.e. being born with the blood and soul of a dragon). You either are or are not born that way. So you either are or are not Dragonborn. In this case, you are.

It does not rely on knowledge or acceptance to be true.

 

[Jeremius]

Being Dragonborn is like Being good at the Piano naturally. If I never play the piano, am I really naturally good at it?

Just being born something means nothing if you do not use it. Dragonborn is never truly Dragonborn without unlocking that power, so being born the dragonborn is pointless.

Dragonborn is a descriptor. It descibes a state of being (i.e. being born with the blood and soul of a dragon). You either are or are not born that way. So you either are or are not Dragonborn. In this case, you are.

It does not rely on knowledge or acceptance to be true.

But if you never know that you are, are you truly what you claim to be?

Again, it would be like me being born good at the piano, but never actually playing one. I am not naturally good at the piano IF I never play one. Same thing here. I never have the power of Dragoborn if I do not unlock that power, so being born the dragonborn is meaningless.

OR, it would be like me being the son of God himself. If I do not recognize that I am and do something about it, It means nothing.

 

[Kross]

Being Dragonborn is like Being good at the Piano naturally. If I never play the piano, am I really naturally good at it?

Just being born something means nothing if you do not use it. Dragonborn is never truly Dragonborn without unlocking that power, so being born the dragonborn is pointless.

Dragonborn is a descriptor. It descibes a state of being (i.e. being born with the blood and soul of a dragon). You either are or are not born that way. So you either are or are not Dragonborn. In this case, you are.

It does not rely on knowledge or acceptance to be true.

But if you never know that you are, are you truly what you claim to be?

Again, it would be like me being born good at the piano, but never actually playing one. I am not naturally good at the piano IF I never play one. Same thing here. I never have the power of Dragoborn if I do not unlock that power, so being born the dragonborn is meaningless.

Yes, even if you never know what you are, you truly are that. I already gave you two examples of this:
Martin Septim was capable of lighting the Dragonfires even though he never knew (or believed) that he was dragonborn. He was dragonborn without knowing it, even before he used the power it granted him. He used the power because he was dragonborn, he didn't become dragonborn because he used the power. Even if he had never been recruited by the blades and had lived his entire life without knowing he was the son of the emperor, he could still have lit the dragonfires at any time.

The second example is you, as a human, being descended from apes. Even if you're never taught this in school, it's still true. If someone developed a virus to target every being descended from one of the ancestors of humanity, you will get hit by that virus whether you know or believe that you are descended from apes.

And about your piano argument. If you are born with the ability to play the piano, you have that ability even if you never touch a piano. You could go your whole life and not play a piano, ever, and you would still have the ability to do if you wished.
Using an ability/power isn't what determines what you are, it's having the power. If you're a natural at playing the piano, you're a natural at playing the piano, even if you don't do it.

But again, this is irrelevant in this context, because absorbing dragon souls isn't the power that defines the dragonborn. The power that defines the dragonborn is being born with the soul of a dragon, and you cannot get around that fact in any way.