Storm cloaks are hypocrites

[Jeremius]

Jorrvaskr: Just ignore me, They are purely my opinion, from my time trying to ignore the Civil War.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

And the Civil War allows the Free-reign in Skyrim because it showed that the Empire was allowing the Nords to worship Talos. See the problem?

Talos is the GOD of the EMPIRE and HUMANITY, not the NORDS.

The White-Gold Concordat allows free reign.

"But to answer your question, the White-Gold Concordat was the fancy name they put on the peace treaty between the Empire and the Thalmor. It ended the war and saved the Empire to fight another day. Also trampled on the sacred name of Talos, and gave the Thalmor free reign to stamp out Talos worship throughout the Empire."

Why does the Empire allow the Thalmor free reign? "Part of the cost of peace."

 

[Jeremius]

And the Civil War allows the Free-reign in Skyrim because it showed that the Empire was allowing the Nords to worship Talos. See the problem?

Talos is the GOD of the EMPIRE and HUMANITY, not the NORDS.

The White-Gold Concordat allows free reign.

"But to answer your question, the White-Gold Concordat was the fancy name they put on the peace treaty between the Empire and the Thalmor. It ended the war and saved the Empire to fight another day. Also trampled on the sacred name of Talos, and gave the Thalmor free reign to stamp out Talos worship throughout the Empire."

Why does the Empire allow the Thalmor free reign? "Part of the cost of peace."

And if the nords did not get their butts hurt by not being able to shout praises to an IMPERIAL/HUMAN god, their would be no civil war for the Thalmor to exploit. IF the Nords did not cause the Markarth Incident, none of this would have happened. it is all on the heads of the Nords as a race.

But, like I said, just ignore my opinion, as we will never agree on this.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

And if the nords did not get their butts hurt by not being able to shout praises to an IMPERIAL/HUMAN god, their would be no civil war for the Thalmor to exploit. IF the Nords did not cause the Markarth Incident, none of this would have happened. it is all on the heads of the Nords as a race.

But, like I said, just ignore my opinion, as we will never agree on this.

Talos is considered a son of Skyrim to them, they followed him and established the Third Empire. They took the Imperial City with him, they took Tamriel with him. They loved him, he was their greatest hero, he was Dragonborn, but also proved himself in battle to them.

The Markarth Incident? Where the Empire promised the militia free Talos worship.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00044436

 

[Jeremius]

And if the nords did not get their butts hurt by not being able to shout praises to an IMPERIAL/HUMAN god, their would be no civil war for the Thalmor to exploit. IF the Nords did not cause the Markarth Incident, none of this would have happened. it is all on the heads of the Nords as a race.

But, like I said, just ignore my opinion, as we will never agree on this.

Talos is considered a son of Skyrim to them, they followed him and established the Third Empire. They took the Imperial City with him, they took Tamriel with him. They loved him, he was their greatest hero, he was Dragonborn, but also proved himself in battle to them.

The Markarth Incident? Where the Empire promised the militia free Talos worship.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00044436

You mean where the DEPOSED JARL, who did not have any power at that time, Promised it? Who is the faceless name that says that? I see nothing but words of some nobody.

As far as I know, you are the one being crazy here. As far as I know, the problem with everything in Skyrim is the Nords.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

You mean where the DEPOSED JARL, who did not have any power at that time, Promised it?

How did he not have any power, he granted worship after the city was taken back? Besides where is your source they had no power, or that the Empire wasn't involved. Skyrim was part of the Empire back then.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00092331

"Ulfric Stormcloak, their leader, used the whole thing as proof that the Empire had abandoned Skyrim."

 

[Jeremius]

You mean where the DEPOSED JARL, who did not have any power at that time, Promised it?

How did he not have any power, he granted worship after the city was taken back? Besides where is your source they had no power, or that the Empire wasn't involved. Skyrim was part of the Empire back then.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00092331

"Ulfric Stormcloak, their leader, used the whole thing as proof that the Empire had abandoned Skyrim."

As a response to this and other posts:

Unless you can prove that the promise was made AFTER Igmund and his family reclaimed the reach, I can't see how he represented the Empire in that instance.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

Unless you can prove that the promise was made AFTER Igmund and his family reclaimed the reach, I can't see how he represented the Empire in that instance.

Forsworn Kingdom was illegitimate, unless you source that mentions in the eyes of the Empire, they didn't represent the Empire in the Reach?

 

[Jeremius]

Unless you can prove that the promise was made AFTER Igmund and his family reclaimed the reach, I can't see how he represented the Empire in that instance.

Forsworn Kingdom was illegitimate, unless you source that mentions in the eyes of the Empire, they didn't represent the Empire in the Reach?

I am not even going to bother, considering you only see what you want, and I only see what is there, and there is nothing in any of the dialogues you posted that says that the Empire had any hand in igmund or his father making the deal with the Militia.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

I am not even going to bother, considering you only see what you want, and I only see what is there, and there is nothing in any of the dialogues you posted that says that the Empire had any hand in igmund or his father making the deal with the Militia.

I agree, I'm glad you have brought this up. You've just refuted the Bear of Markarth, and now see through the obvious falsehood in the writing of what really happened.

 

[Jeremius]

I am not even going to bother, considering you only see what you want, and I only see what is there, and there is nothing in any of the dialogues you posted that says that the Empire had any hand in igmund or his father making the deal with the Militia.

I agree, I'm glad you have brought this up. You've just refuted the Bear of Markarth, and now see through the obvious falsehood in the writing of what really happened.

You keep saying the Empire made the promise to the militia, while reality is, Igmund could mean anything, and you do not have direct proof the Empire was involved the making the promise in the first place but your interpretation of some lines of dialogue.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

You keep saying the Empire made the promise to the militia, while reality is, Igmund could mean anything, and you do not have direct proof the Empire was involved the making the promise in the first place but your interpretation of some lines of dialogue.

Of course I did, because I was demonstrating the flaw in defending the Empire. Imperial supporters will often use the Bear of Markarth as evidence against Ulfric and the Stormcloaks.

They're willing to use the book, but when pressed about the issue of the worship. They mention it was Igmund and his family acting alone, and the Empire wasn't involved. That contradicts their argument when using the Bear of Markarth, because they have just refuted it's credibility.

You see?

 

[Jeremius]

You keep saying the Empire made the promise to the militia, while reality is, Igmund could mean anything, and you do not have direct proof the Empire was involved the making the promise in the first place but your interpretation of some lines of dialogue.

Of course I did, because I was demonstrating the flaw in defending the Empire. Imperial supporters will often use the Bear of Markarth as evidence against Ulfric and the Stormcloaks.

They're willing to use the book, but when pressed about the issue of the worship. They mention it was Igmund and his family acting alone, and the Empire wasn't involved. That contradicts their argument when using the Bear of Markarth, because they have just refuted it's credibility.

You see?

I never said I actually supported the Empire though.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

I never said I actually supported the Empire though.

My post didn't show up, so I'll redo it. (Will delete if it does show up)

You may not support the Empire, but you're using common Imperial arguments when against the Stormcloaks. Which is the point I was making, the flaw in those arguments.

 

[Jeremius]

I never said I actually supported the Empire though.

My post didn't show up, so I'll redo it. (Will delete if it does show up)

You may not support the Empire, but you're using common Imperial arguments when against the Stormcloaks. Which is the point I was making, the flaw in those arguments.

All I say is that the Stormcloaks are blinded by their cause, and do not see that what they are causing is in fact benefiting the Thalmor. That is the truth, as many stormcloaks do not see that.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

All I say is that the Stormcloaks are blinded by their cause, and do not see that what they are causing is in fact benefiting the Thalmor. That is the truth, as many stormcloaks do not see that.

The Empire are blinded by their greed, and do not see that what they're doing. Even when they know they're aiding the Thalmor, they aren't even going to reinforce their General to quickly end the war. Instead they pick the option that benefits the Thalmor, we know that the Elder Council can be bought as evident by Maven Black-Briar, and that Titus Mede II is assassinated. It's no surprise their loyalty is questionable.

 

[Jeremius]

All I say is that the Stormcloaks are blinded by their cause, and do not see that what they are causing is in fact benefiting the Thalmor. That is the truth, as many stormcloaks do not see that.

The Empire are blinded by their greed, and do not see that what they're doing. Even when they know they're aiding the Thalmor, they aren't even going to reinforce their General to quickly end the war. Instead they pick the option that benefits the Thalmor, we know that the Elder Council can be bought as evident by Maven Black-Briar, and that Titus Mede II is assassinated. It's no surprise their loyalty is questionable.

And it is no surprise that the Stormcloaks only attracts Nords because their cause is a Nordic one.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

And it is no surprise that the Stormcloaks only attracts Nords because their cause is a Nordic one.

Which is why a Redguard from Markarth joined the rebellion, and why the Imperial farmer is on his way to join the Stormcloaks?

Edit: There is also an Argonian Housecarl defending the Stormcloak sided Jarl of Morthal.

 

[tx12001]

yes there is don't mean he likes them he was working for her in stonehills so his choice was to either serve her or starve hell they wont even let argonians into windhelm and what redguard in markarth? the only 2 that I know of are the imperial Jarl housecarl and the redguard who works silver with his redguard wife and daughter and none of them appear to be stormclaok alligned

 

[Jeremius]

And it is no surprise that the Stormcloaks only attracts Nords because their cause is a Nordic one.

Which is why a Redguard from Markarth joined the rebellion, and why the Imperial farmer is on his way to join the Stormcloaks?

Edit: There is also an Argonian Housecarl defending the Stormcloak sided Jarl of Morthal.

Never understood the Redguaed thing, I thought the imperial farmer was a random encounter, which means it might not mean anything.

Also, I can't ever really play a stormcloak because, for whatever reason, the Civil War in general leaves a bad taste in my mouth.