Siding with the vampires is a good choice.

[Raijin]

Paarthurnax has taught me a value life lesson through the power of wisdom, and it was his speech that lead me to this decision of siding with the vampires, and not the Dawnguard.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x0003c574

Dov wahlaan fah rel. We were made to dominate. The will to power is in our blood. You feel it in yourself, do you not? I can be trusted. I know this. But they do not. Onikaan ni ov dovah. It is always wise to mistrust a dovah. I have overcome my nature only through meditation and long study of the Way of the Voice. No day goes by where I am not tempted to return to my inborn nature. Zin krif horvut se suleyk. What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?

 

[ShadowHunter]

I side with what is better for my character. Warrior characters I go Dawnguard, but Assassin and Mage type characters I go with Volkihar

 

[Kohlar the Unkilled]

I've never sided with Harkon. But... Whenever I return Serana, knowing Harkon's speech is to come, I always go make myself at home at his dinning table, taking a seat between two vampires. Each time I've noticed that the vampires seem to be welcoming and generally friendly, even though Harkon eventually casts me away. So, if you join Harkon, there are some usefull people there, yes?

 

[Raijin]

I side with what is better for my character. Warrior characters I go Dawnguard, but Assassin and Mage type characters I go with Volkihar

Their are warrior vampires in castle Volkihar.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Fura_Bloodmouth
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Hestla
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Modhna
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Orthjolf

Being a vampire lord as a warrior gives you an advantage considering the fact that you no longer need to carry all of those health potions. You can use the Vampiric Drain to drain the health from your opponent, and regain your health, if you're running low on health.

 

[Dradin]

Dov wahlaan fah rel. We were made to dominate. The will to power is in our blood. You feel it in yourself, do you not? I can be trusted. I know this. But they do not. Onikaan ni ov dovah. It is always wise to mistrust a dovah. I have overcome my nature only through meditation and long study of the Way of the Voice. No day goes by where I am not tempted to return to my inborn nature. Zin krif horvut se suleyk. What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?

You misquote Paarthunax.

To argue that the Dov are naturally evil and dominating and thus the Vampires are the right choice is the same as saying humans are inheritly flawed and thus it's is justifiable to throw children into woodchippers.

The Way of the Voice is a strict way of keeping the power in check, falling into restraint instead of abuse. Miraak shared your same philosophy. Alduin did as well. It did not turn out well for them.

The idea of overcoming your evil nature through great effort constantly reappears in all religions. Restraint of power is a virtue while abuse is certainly a sin. All of the 7 deadly sins are examples of abuse and excess while all of the virtues are examples of restraint.

So to justify bad behavior by saying your inheritly evil is no justification at all. It's a poorly thought out excuse.

 

[Kohlar the Unkilled]

Dov wahlaan fah rel. We were made to dominate. The will to power is in our blood. You feel it in yourself, do you not? I can be trusted. I know this. But they do not. Onikaan ni ov dovah. It is always wise to mistrust a dovah. I have overcome my nature only through meditation and long study of the Way of the Voice. No day goes by where I am not tempted to return to my inborn nature. Zin krif horvut se suleyk. What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?

You misquote Paarthunax.

To argue that the Dov are naturally evil and dominating and thus the Vampires are the right choice is the same as saying humans are inheritly flawed and thus it's is justifiable to throw children into woodchippers.

The Way of the Voice is a strict way of keeping the power in check, falling into restraint instead of abuse. Miraak shared your same philosophy. Alduin did as well. It did not turn out well for them.

The idea of overcoming your evil nature through great effort constantly reappears in all religions. Restraint of power is a virtue while abuse is certainly a sin. All of the 7 deadly sins are examples of abuse and excess while all of the virtues are examples of restraint.

So to justify bad behavior by saying your inheritly evil is no justification at all. It's a poorly thought out excuse.

Or... Subject to interpretation based on perspective. It is possible that perspectives can shift based on convenience. I believe my Argonian character is going to side with Harkon. For the food and the hall, though. Not the vampire perks.

 

[Dradin]

Or... Subject to interpretation based on perspective. It is possible that perspectives can shift based on convenience. I believe my Argonian character is going to side with Harkon. For the food and the hall, though. Not the vampire perks.

I disagree.

Perspective lacks any true interpretation in good and evil. To keep up with the example, the man feeding a child into a woodchipper is not "just misunderstood"

When you start saying that perspective has an influence in right and wrong, you can easily justify any crime against humanity. Besides, the Holocaust was good because Hitler had the best intentions for Germany.

That cannot be a valid ideology. In truth we know what is right and what is wrong. If you destroy a skyscraper you can't be thinking your doing it for humanity. Anyone who argues otherwise condones violence of the sort.

 

[Kohlar the Unkilled]

You're right of course, yet if everyone felt this way, there would be no crimes against humanity. The differing perspectives exist, justified or not.

I'm curious as to where your "child into a woodchipper" example sprung. A reference to something specific, or, random horrible imagery to illustrate a point. Effective, either way.

 

[Dradin]

You're right of course, yet if everyone felt this way, there would be no crimes against humanity. The differing perspectives exist, justified or not.

I'm curious as to where your "child into a woodchipper" example sprung. A reference to something specific, or, random horrible imagery to illustrate a point. Effective, either way.

I was never arguing that differing perspectives didn't exist, I was just proving the inherit flaws of the overused argument.

As of the woodchipper, it came out of.my imagination the first time I was arguing with someone over the validity of perspective in good or evil. Since it is so effective I have used it ever since.

 

[ShadowHunter]

Their are warrior vampires in castle Volkihar.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Fura_Bloodmouth
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Hestla
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Modhna
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Orthjolf

Being a vampire lord as a warrior gives you an advantage considering the fact that you no longer need to carry all of those health potions. You can use the Vampiric Drain to drain the health from your opponent, and regain your health, if you're running low on health.

That's a good point, but I still prefer Werewolf for my warrior characters. Plus I use power attacks a lot and the weakness to sun is a major hindrance on power attacks.

Being a vampire warrior feels kinda weird to me, I don't know why but it does

 

[Bulldog]

Or... Subject to interpretation based on perspective. It is possible that perspectives can shift based on convenience. I believe my Argonian character is going to side with Harkon. For the food and the hall, though. Not the vampire perks.

I disagree.

Perspective lacks any true interpretation in good and evil. To keep up with the example, the man feeding a child into a woodchipper is not "just misunderstood"

When you start saying that perspective has an influence in right and wrong, you can easily justify any crime against humanity. Besides, the Holocaust was good because Hitler had the best intentions for Germany.

That cannot be a valid ideology. In truth we know what is right and what is wrong. If you destroy a skyscraper you can't be thinking your doing it for humanity. Anyone who argues otherwise condones violence of the sort.

Do ? condone violence because i think you can destroy a skyscraper and do it for humanity? That is a bad analogy. You can demo a skyscraper with no one in it, clear the rubble and build a hospital or school. At that point you just removed a building and has nothing to do with being violent.

 

[Dradin]

Do ? condone violence because i think you can destroy a skyscraper and do it for humanity? That is a bad analogy. You can demo a skyscraper with no one in it, clear the rubble and build a hospital or school. At that point you just removed a building and has nothing to do with being violent.

You knew exactly what I was referring to. Why else would I mention such a thing in such context.

 

[Raijin]

Ugh. Can we use an analogy that is Skyrim related, and not have any relations with the real world? The fact that dragons can successfully overcome their evil and dominating nature by using the way of the voice is proof that other creatures such as vampires can adopt almost the same method to overcome their evil desires. In fact it is already happening in Cryodill.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cyrodiil_Vampyrum_Order
The order has a strict conduct to ensure discretion among its members. The order honors its Dual Patrons: Molag Bal the Kin-father, who all vampires owe their existence to; and Clavicus Vile, who they owe for their successes and social stature, and who helps them control their blood craving.

 

[Dradin]

Ugh. Can we use an analogy that is Skyrim related, and not have any relations with the real world? The fact that dragons can successfully overcome their evil and dominating nature by using the way of the voice is proof that other creatures such as vampires can adopt almost the same method to overcome their evil desires. In fact it is already happening in Cryodill.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cyrodiil_Vampyrum_Order
The order has a strict conduct to ensure discretion among its members. The order honors its Dual Patrons: Molag Bal the Kin-father, who all vampires owe their existence to; and Clavicus Vile, who they owe for their successes and social stature, and who helps them control their blood craving.

See, this I can agree with. In no way was I arguing that Vampires can't be good. I wasn't aware you were say thing they could.

Unfortunately I think the Voikihar do not embody that ideology. Granted one could make an argument that with Harkon's death that they could turn to good. However the domineering attitude seems to ingrained in their lifestyle.

Sometimes I feel the Dawnguard questline, like the Civil War, is a lesser of two evils.

 

[Kohlar the Unkilled]

I was aided in battle late one night by a Vampire Mistwalker. It helped me kill a dragon. Once the dragon was dead, I approached the stranger, not yet knowing he was a vampire. He simply asked, "Need something?" and walked off.

 

[Bulldog]

You knew exactly what I was referring to. Why else would I mention such a thing in such context.

Throwing it all out there. I'm just saying your analogy wasn't great because there are scenarios in which you could literally bring down a skyscraper and it be beneficial. See you said "you can't be thinking your doing it for humanity". That is wrong because you could. Then you said ANYONE who argues otherwise (which I did) condones violence. Yes, I know what context you meant, it should have just been worried differently that is all.

 

[ecozombie]

Serana, seems to me, is a good example of a vampire overcoming her so called evil nature. She does everything in her power to try and stop her father Harkon from blacking out the sun. Atleast from what I've read about her thus far - I've only just started the Dawnguard DLC.

 

[Raijin]

Serana, seems to me, is a good example of a vampire overcoming her so called evil nature. She does everything in her power to try and stop her father Harkon from blacking out the sun. Atleast from what I've read about her thus far - I've only just started the Dawnguard DLC.

Not to mention Valerica. She is truly the mastermind behind putting to an end the genocidal act that Harkon was pursuing over some prophecy.

 

[ecozombie]

Agreed.

 

[Lewsean]

Why are they 'evil' anyways? Just another race trying to survive. You could say the Dawnguard are evil in Vampire culture due to them not wanting to do anything but kill Vampire lol.