Psiberzerker's Build Clinic

[Nightingale-Assassin]

Evening folks, I'd like a bit of tweaking assistance with a build I am working on. I was going with something like an undead controlling arching assassin. Goal is to use undead thralls as meatshields while I plink away from the back and go around being a general annoyance.

This is what I'd come up with so far as skills go.

I've been doign something like a 1/3/1 distribution on stats, I am level 34 right now.

I had a very similar build a while ago, it's a really fun way to play

IMO 1\5 in Stealth is enough, especially if you going to use the bow because there is range between you and the enemy.

If your are planning on investing conjuration, you may also want to use the bound bow, with Mystic Binding perk it is better than Daedric bow and comes with 100 bound arrow which have the same damage as daedric arrows but a smithed Daedric bow may be better.

If you want to use magic most efficiently while sneaking, I suggest you investing in illusion and take the Quite Casting perk, that way the enemies won't hear you when you cast your spells.

Hope this helps, good luck!

 

[Klink]

Thanks! Goes with what I was thinking mostly. I'm limiting myself mostly to just the undead summon spells in conjuration. I've used bound bow a bit but quite a few times now I have had it despawn on me in the middle of some heated fights, and it has been annoying to say the least. I went the full 5/5 on stealth because im playing a bit ratcheted up on difficulty and let's just say that draugr dreadlords require multiple arrows and if I find a nice little dark corner to squeeze in, I can semi safely fire multiple arrows before he gets close enough to force me to find a new place to hide. I did Voldruun ot w/e it is called last night when i experienced this lol.

 

[Psiberzerker]

Evening folks, I'd like a bit of tweaking assistance with a build I am working on. I was going with something like an undead controlling arching assassin. Goal is to use undead thralls as meatshields while I plink away from the back and go around being a general annoyance.

This is what I'd come up with so far as skills go.

I've been doign something like a 1/3/1 distribution on stats, I am level 34 right now.

That's great, but do you have any questions? I created this thread to help people with their bilds, and I'm not sure you need any with your Necroarcher. I will point out that Steatlh(5/5) is a waste of perks. How close do you need to get with a Bow, anyway? Also, what are you Smithing for, just the bow? You have an offal lot invested in it (More than Enchanting) for just 1 item. I could probably get you in at a much lower level, if that's what you wanted.

 

[Klink]

I was looking for help at fleshing it how more or tweaking a few points here and there. I am not worried about low or high level. For example, I'd like to pop in alchemy and pickpocket and lockpicking as well, to fullyflesh out a Necroticarching Treasure Monger ;D But I don't know how that'd be possible to do in the most efficient manner. Every time I try to make that build something just seems off. I also like to sneak around and use my daggers instead of the bow, just to change my play style up from time to time, as I find both aspects of 'attacks' fun and enjoyable. I also did not know if my planned stat progression was a good idea either. 1/3/1 felt right but maybe 1/2/2 or 2/1/2 would be better?

When I did the Voldruun dungeon after randomly stumbling upon it (outside of help with character progression I don't get any help for quest or spell/item locations) I found a draugr dreadlord at the end and i fouled up my first attempt at him and he 2 shot me, which is expected given my lacking gear and little life ;D That's why I chose the 5/5 sneak. I was able to hide in the same crevice and got 4 arrows off on him before he finally noticed me, and then I ran off and hid again (took a while to find a new hole to hide in!)

 

[Psiberzerker]

I was looking for help at fleshing it how more or tweaking a few points here and there. I am not worried about low or high level. For example, I'd like to pop in alchemy and pickpocket and lockpicking as well, to fullyflesh out a Necroticarching Treasure Monger ;D But I don't know how that'd be possible to do in the most efficient manner. Every time I try to make that build something just seems off. I also like to sneak around and use my daggers instead of the bow, just to change my play style up from time to time, as I find both aspects of 'attacks' fun and enjoyable. I also did not know if my planned stat progression was a good idea either. 1/3/1 felt right but maybe 1/2/2 or 2/1/2 would be better?

Ok, let me start with a few questions: You're unarmored, or have Light high enough that you don't have to perk the tree? I read what you sead about Stealth(5) and there has to be a happy medium between perking it just as a gateway, and doing all 5 on automatic. At 100 Sneak, nobody needs 5/5 to get within Pickpocket range in heavy armor as long as you stand behind them, and that's before you get Shadow Warrior. If you spend it on Enchanter instead, you can Fortify Sneak higher on clothing, just for Example. With a bow, you shouldn't ever Need one point in Stealth, except in close quarters where you don't have any decent LoS.

This is the biggest omission in this build, especially when there are no body buddies to raise for assistance. Some solid backup, if even a tank Follower would be a good idea so you can do-si-do with them whenever the Draugr jump out right in front of you. I know, Dead Thrall is supposed to be permanent, but I've had them drop right inside doors when I went through to a new cell. Also, they don't heal, so unless you pay attention (To them, and not the enemy in combat) they can fall to the sword right before you get rushed.

You don't have any 1H skill? That pretty much limits your daggers to Backstabs, I'd at least perk Armsman(5) Fighting Stance, and Dual Flurry/Savagery, that'd fix you right up. Unfortunately, there's no room for it in the level 50 build you posted, but I bet you could work it in on your current level 34. Critical Charge is redundant on an Archer, just shoot them instead of switching weapons, sprinting, and power attacking. Savage Strike is more damage with the Double Power Attack, but if you have a Backstab, just Double Attack (Tap both triggers) so you double Assassin's Blade multipliers instead of just counting it on the first strike. Sometimes, Sword/dagger is actually faster/higher DPS with the DPA.

http://skyrimcalculator.com/#281897

 

[Joker]

Bound Sword is a Novice spell. Anyone can cast it, and it lasts 2 minutes, so you have plenty of time to recover enough to pop off Oakflesh before stepping in with a shield. Just cast it, you'll get enough experience eaxh time if you get in a fight at all while it's Active. If you're going to work Archery (I didn't see it in that last description) then Bound Bow takes a lot of Magicka, and both hands, so you can't cast anything else without putting it away. it's more than powerful enough to make up for it, but your Summons, and Armor spells will wear off first, potentially leaving you Exposed. (Just so you know.)

Carry a dagger, there's always a chance of being caught between recasts, and your Magicka too low for Bound Sword, pulling a dagger is much quicker if you're in close quarters, or they're all most apon you. There's also quite a few extremely powerful Swords, some of which are available through various Faction arcs. Instead of Archery, there's still destruction, but that uses up a lot of perks.

http://skyrimcalculator.com/#273208 It'll take a long time to get that high level, though...

Ok, I started over on this build idea, but I added Archery for distance damage. The issue I am having is that I think I am spread too thin. I am a High Elf, for the Magic bonus of course. I am Level 14, and I am putting points in archery, 1H, one point in smithing, LA, sneak, conj, & alt. I have lots of spells because I hoarded treasure to have the gold to buy spells when I got to Farengar. I played around and this is what I am using as a guide for my build: http://skyrimcalculator.com/281904
Am I spread too thin, or am I too ambitious or.....?

 

[Klink]

yea, I went with a 'no armor outside of crafted stats' approach. The creative portion of the character wears as little as possible so that he can carry as much as possible after he robs all the graves and corpses! Which is why I tend to die incredibly fast and easily when I get in to a brawl or they even spot me from range. The dreadlord that killed me just used 2 arrows to do so, so it was fun and shocking for sure.

I didn't know 1h effected backstab damage, so that is definitely something to think about.

As far as the 5/5 sneak, it wasn't automatic per se. I was initially at 1 until I had that fight with the draugr dreadlord. Upon finding it very difficult to find places to hide without kiting him everywhere, and his incredible strength i bumped the stealth perk up slowly. 5 gave me the ability to hide in a dark corner right down from him and attack him, until he was right i front of me, then used his shout and i nearly died again before spamming the vanish ability to constantly force him off me as a target for a few seconds.

As far as enchanting goes, I read a lot about people enchanting their characters to the point it was stupidly easy, so this was my biggest reason for not delving so far in to enchanting. I wanted to keep the game fun and 'real' as far as power went. Unless playing fully enchanted and smithed out on master is still difficult, it was hard to understand what people were really saying there.

 

[Psiberzerker]

Ok, I started over on this build idea, but I added Archery for distance damage. The issue I am having is that I think I am spread too thin. I am a High Elf, for the Magic bonus of course. I am Level 14, and I am putting points in archery, 1H, one point in smithing, LA, sneak, conj, & alt. I have lots of spells because I hoarded treasure to have the gold to buy spells when I got to Farengar. I played around and this is what I am using as a guide for my build: http://skyrimcalculator.com/281904
Am I spread too thin, or am I too ambitious or.....?

Being "Spread too thin" is mostly a problem for Character Level in this game. Concentrate on doing more damage early on (Armsman, Overdraw...) then add utility skills like Speech later on when you have an advantage. As you level up, enemies will get tougher (The exact level depends on the Difficulty) so stop before they overtake you. 50 is when they stop leveling with you, except for specially scripted enemies, like the Falmer which are all set above your current level (when you encounter them.)

You can drop Critical Charge, Oblivion Binding, and Mage Armor (If you're going for Light) to get below 50, when levels take twice as much XP to earn. You might not need Agile Defender (5) if you mostly stay out of the fight, Sneak, let your Summons (I see you switched to Atromancy) to tank, and hang back with the bow. With Light Armor, you may want to Smith more too. Twin Souls would be very nice, more so than Master Conjuration on this build. Instead of Dual Wield, you can always switch to Sword, and Flaming Familiar for some Spellsword action.

For all of these builds, Bound Bow is a good starter until you find/make something better. @Klinik is already leveled past this trainer at 34, so effectively skipped it, but if you're starting over, this spell effectively accelerates the Archery, and Conjuration trees early on while you build up some Perks (And possibly Sneak, too.) However, with Smithing, and Enchanting, you can do a lot better, at least get Fire Enchanter for Absorb health effects. This is More Damage, plus topping off whatever wounds you might have picked up.

Joker, You can cast _Flesh over your Light Armor, but not gain any benefit from the Mage Armor perks. It's either, or, so at best you could switch between a full-suit for Wind Walker, then strip down to robes, and spells to gain the advantage of Mage Armor. I try to avoid conflicts like this in my builds, because there's no advantage to the latter, just drop Mage Armor. http://skyrimcalculator.com/#281910 Silent Roll is handy, you can combo it with Critical Charge to ambush someone across the room. Kind of redundant with an Archer who can just shoot them, though.

 

[Psiberzerker]

As far as enchanting goes, I read a lot about people enchanting their characters to the point it was stupidly easy, so this was my biggest reason for not delving so far in to enchanting. I wanted to keep the game fun and 'real' as far as power went. Unless playing fully enchanted and smithed out on master is still difficult, it was hard to understand what people were really saying there.

It depends on what you use it for. Yes, you can get stupidly powerful effects with Enchanter(5) but the ones you're talking about use it mostly to Fortify Smithing, and temper uber powered weapons. By itself, it's not gamebreaking unless you use it to glitch past the mechanics.

One of those combinations is Dual Wield (Or Sweep) and Absorb health/stamina. At that point, it doesn't really matter how much damage the Daggers do, because the Enchantments kill them quickly enough while regenerating you faster than Histskin. As long as you have enemies to strike, anything that isn't instantly fatal is survivable, and healed in a fraction of a second. Absorb Stamina is just to keep you spinning out Dual Power Attacks. (Sweep is less so, because you have to set up multiple opponents to strike them all at once.)

Master is extremely difficult to survive, and win without using some sort of exploits. I mostly outthink the AI, it's that stupid, but most of the vocal builders prefer stupid damage. (I'm not sure I understand the mentality here, play on Master to shew how Leet you are, then make weapons that break the game, and brag about their Originality online?)

 

[Joker]

Being "Spread too thin" is mostly a problem for Character Level in this game. Concentrate on doing more damage early on (Armsman, Overdraw...) then add utility skills like Speech later on when you have an advantage. As you level up, enemies will get tougher (The exact level depends on the Difficulty) so stop before they overtake you. 50 is when they stop leveling with you, except for specially scripted enemies, like the Falmer which are all set above your current level (when you encounter them.)

You can drop Critical Charge, Oblivion Binding, and Mage Armor (If you're going for Light) to get below 50, when levels take twice as much XP to earn. You might not need Agile Defender (5) if you mostly stay out of the fight, Sneak, let your Summons (I see you switched to Atromancy) to tank, and hang back with the bow. With Light Armor, you may want to Smith more too. Twin Souls would be very nice, more so than Master Conjuration on this build. Instead of Dual Wield, you can always switch to Sword, and Flaming Familiar for some Spellsword action.

For all of these builds, Bound Bow is a good starter until you find/make something better. @Klinik is already leveled past this trainer at 34, so effectively skipped it, but if you're starting over, this spell effectively accelerates the Archery, and Conjuration trees early on while you build up some Perks (And possibly Sneak, too.) However, with Smithing, and Enchanting, you can do a lot better, at least get Fire Enchanter for Absorb health effects. This is More Damage, plus topping off whatever wounds you might have picked up.

Joker, You can cast _Flesh over your Light Armor, but not gain any benefit from the Mage Armor perks. It's either, or, so at best you could switch between a full-suit for Wind Walker, then strip down to robes, and spells to gain the advantage of Mage Armor. I try to avoid conflicts like this in my builds, because there's no advantage to the latter, just drop Mage Armor. http://skyrimcalculator.com/#281910 Silent Roll is handy, you can combo it with Critical Charge to ambush someone across the room. Kind of redundant with an Archer who can just shoot them, though.

As always, great information from you Psiberzerker. Thank you again for your assistance. I will be altering my plan then.

 

[Psiberzerker]

yea, I went with a 'no armor outside of crafted stats' approach. The creative portion of the character wears as little as possible so that he can carry as much as possible after he robs all the graves and corpses! Which is why I tend to die incredibly fast and easily when I get in to a brawl or they even spot me from range. The dreadlord that killed me just used 2 arrows to do so, so it was fun and shocking for sure.

I didn't know 1h effected backstab damage, so that is definitely something to think about.

As far as the 5/5 sneak, it wasn't automatic per se. I was initially at 1 until I had that fight with the draugr dreadlord. Upon finding it very difficult to find places to hide without kiting him everywhere, and his incredible strength i bumped the stealth perk up slowly. 5 gave me the ability to hide in a dark corner right down from him and attack him, until he was right i front of me, then used his shout and i nearly died again before spamming the vanish ability to constantly force him off me as a target for a few seconds.

As far as enchanting goes, I read a lot about people enchanting their characters to the point it was stupidly easy, so this was my biggest reason for not delving so far in to enchanting. I wanted to keep the game fun and 'real' as far as power went. Unless playing fully enchanted and smithed out on master is still difficult, it was hard to understand what people were really saying there.

Unarmored Altmer is about as fast as you can be, which combos well with Conjuration, and Archery if you have enough room to maneuver. The big problem with Necromancy is needing a body to work with, and not being able to use Follower Commands. The trade-off is you can learn to pick Thralls, and Arm them to build a powerful party. At it's ultimate extreme, Necromancer Thralls will raise dead for you, and you can even have a follower with a Staff of the Zombie for a grand total of 7 bodies counting you. I usually go with Master Vampires like Movarth, because they can use Weapons, Armor, and Absorb health as well. My favorite Follower for this is Eola, but do her quest after you're done building, so she can resurrect at her highest level (Or Wabbajack her.) Vals Veran makes for a fun Thrall too.

 

[Joker]

You can drop Critical Charge, Oblivion Binding, and Mage Armor (If you're going for Light) to get below 50, when levels take twice as much XP to earn. You might not need Agile Defender (5) if you mostly stay out of the fight, Sneak, let your Summons (I see you switched to Atromancy) to tank, and hang back with the bow. With Light Armor, you may want to Smith more too. Twin Souls would be very nice, more so than Master Conjuration on this build. Instead of Dual Wield, you can always switch to Sword, and Flaming Familiar for some Spellsword action.

For all of these builds, Bound Bow is a good starter until you find/make something better. @Klinik is already leveled past this trainer at 34, so effectively skipped it, but if you're starting over, this spell effectively accelerates the Archery, and Conjuration trees early on while you build up some Perks (And possibly Sneak, too.) However, with Smithing, and Enchanting, you can do a lot better, at least get Fire Enchanter for Absorb health effects. This is More Damage, plus topping off whatever wounds you might have picked up.

Ok, time for the noob questions, again.....sorry.

1. So, I would concentrate on Archery/1H early, wearing LA, do the enchanting where possible, as I went.

2. Would I be trying to fill the enchanting tree completely?

 

[Psiberzerker]

Ok, time for the noob questions, again.....sorry.

1. So, I would concentrate on Archery/1H early, wearing LA, do the enchanting where possible, as I went.

2. Would I be trying to fill the enchanting tree completely?

Up to you really. That's where you start dialing in your character, adjusting your stats, skills, and effects to get the most out of them. Fortify 1H won't do daggers any good, but there's no reason you couldn't do a sword, or something else. Archery adds pure damage to your Arrows, so I highly recommend it wherever there's slots which will accept it. Otherwise, I'd Fortify Health, this can be almost as much protection as Armor just by making it take that many more strikes to kill you, though Regeneration (When you find it) is better.

For the bow, I like Cold (look at all the scripted pre-enchanted bows in the game) because of the Slow effect as well as more damage to Health/Stamina. With Extra Effect, you can add even more, but that's effectively 3 right there. Other combination effects are Firey Soul Trap, and Absorb Heath (Damage, and Healing on strike) which stack, but I prefer those on fast hand weapons over bows, which shoot too slow. Absorb Health, and Stamina is about as good as it gets in the melee, especially with Dual Wield, or with a Shield.

I wouldn't consider Enchantment a necessity for this particular build, but an option you should weigh the investment it takes to level it up against the maximum end benefit. Unless you crank it out (Usually in combination with other non-combat skills) it takes a long time to get to Extra Effect. Realistically, you almost have to max out Enchanter(5) to get enough experience from each piece you craft, or make up to 5 times more of them. (I'm not going to run through the differential equation, it comes out close to the Root Mean Square depending on how you level it.)

If you do, Enchanter(5) then either up the Weapon branch, or Apparel one to Extra Effect, I usually do Insightful, Corpus, EE, and Fire Enchanter. Soul Squeezer/syphon is a trap, because you get less experience keeping your magical weapons topped off, which you can do constantly by discharging them into the enemy. Once you get up to 100, you can come back for them so you don't have to Fortify Destruction to make them free. Damage/Absorb Health is affected by Fire Enchanter, Stamina\Frost, and Magicka\Storm, in case you were curious.

I'd probably do Archery/1H, LA, and Alteration if you're still doing it. If you keep both defensive skills up, the spells can about Double your protection until the armor surpasses it. Then, you can always add another 100 to it going into a tough fight, but by then you're reaping the benefits of Magic Resistance, Detection spells, and possibly Paralysis. That last one can be incredibly deadly in a Spellsword's off-hand.

 

[Joker]

If you do, Enchanter(5) then either up the Weapon branch, or Apparel one to Extra Effect, I usually do Insightful, Corpus, EE, and Fire Enchanter. Soul Squeezer/syphon is a trap, because you get less experience keeping your magical weapons topped off, which you can do constantly by discharging them into the enemy. Once you get up to 100, you can come back for them so you don't have to Fortify Destruction to make them free. Damage/Absorb Health is affected by Fire Enchanter, Stamina\Frost, and Magicka\Storm, in case you were curious.

I guess it is time to research this enchanting some then. Thanks again for your assistance.

 

[Psiberzerker]

I guess it is time to research this enchanting some then. Thanks again for your assistance.

To start, pick up any, and all Soul Gems you find, and get Mystic Binding. Souls are the raw materials, but you also need to collect the effects to enchant them on something. Do The College of Winterhold, just for joining, there's all kinds of soul gems just lying around, you don't even have to steal them. If you get a Petty in a grand Soul Gem, you can always drop it, and pick it back up empty. Find some clear level floor so it doesn't roll under something. Usually around an Arcane Enchanter. The last dungeon has all three Absorb Stat effects in one place, but they'll use them on you, and you might want to stock up on Blue potions first.

To start, just Disenchant, and find a magical weapon to discharge. Staffs are nice for this, you can recharge them with pettys through about commons. The first weapons you craft, dial all the way up so they discharge more on strike, and don't do anything to lower the charge cost (Like Fortify Destruction Enchantments on Robes.) Even a little Absorb Health is a good thing, so the Blade of Woe, and Gauldur Blackblade (Level 33 and up) make up for not having a particularly high Armor Rating in close combat. Fire Enchanter as soon as you can get it, and Enchanter perks too. I usually don't bother with apparel until I get Muffle, or Waterbreathing, because those have the same value with Petty Souls as Grands. To get to Extra Effect, you eventually have to crank out high value items, so look for unenchanted jewelry, and footwear...

It's really a lot faster with Speech, and/or Smithing, because you can buy/make items to enchant, but I like Adventuring more than Shopping. Just about every NPC wears boots, or shoes, so it's easy to just sweep for bandits, I've also stockpiled them from the beginning with the plan to do it beforehand.

 

[Jei El]

To start, pick up any, and all Soul Gems you find, and get Mystic Binding. Souls are the raw materials, but you also need to collect the effects to enchant them on something. Do The College of Winterhold, just for joining, there's all kinds of soul gems just lying around, you don't even have to steal them. If you get a Petty in a grand Soul Gem, you can always drop it, and pick it back up empty. Find some clear level floor so it doesn't roll under something. Usually around an Arcane Enchanter. The last dungeon has all three Absorb Stat effects in one place, but they'll use them on you, and you might want to stock up on Blue potions first.

To start, just Disenchant, and find a magical weapon to discharge. Staffs are nice for this, you can recharge them with pettys through about commons. The first weapons you craft, dial all the way up so they discharge more on strike, and don't do anything to lower the charge cost (Like Fortify Destruction Enchantments on Robes.) Even a little Absorb Health is a good thing, so the Blade of Woe, and Gauldur Blackblade (Level 33 and up) make up for not having a particularly high Armor Rating in close combat. Fire Enchanter as soon as you can get it, and Enchanter perks too. I usually don't bother with apparel until I get Muffle, or Waterbreathing, because those have the same value with Petty Souls as Grands. To get to Extra Effect, you eventually have to crank out high value items, so look for unenchanted jewelry, and footwear...

It's really a lot faster with Speech, and/or Smithing, because you can buy/make items to enchant, but I like Adventuring more than Shopping. Just about every NPC wears boots, or shoes, so it's easy to just sweep for bandits, I've also stockpiled them from the beginning with the plan to do it beforehand.

And Azura's Star or the Black Star can help so you don't have to buy new gems.

 

[Psiberzerker]

And Azura's Star or the Black Star can help so you don't have to buy new gems.

Right, once you can get up there, and reliably kill multiple Dremora at the same time... Kind of late game type stuff, but you have to learn to walk first. Azura's Stars are basically infinitely re-usable Grand Soul Gems (You can only ever have one) but even after I get it, you still don't completely eliminate the need for Soul Gems until you're done with Enchanting, except for keeping your weapon/s topped off. This is because you don't always ever do single combat. If you fight 3 bandits, do you want to switch to the menu after every kill, and find a weapon to top off mid-fight, or just let those Grand souls go to waste? Right, now what if it's a wolfpack? All petty souls, which using the Star is kind of overkill on, but again you have to pause to deal with the soul because you don't have any Pettys in your pocket? Every single fight that isn't a straight up duel? Convenient! You don't need Azura's Star to Enchant. it helps, but it doesn't exactly make it a cake walk.

 

[Jei El]

can the star only hold 1 soul?

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[Psiberzerker]

can the star only hold 1 soul?

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At a time, but you can plug it into a discharged weapon just about any time. It gets annoying, doing that every single kill, though, so I generally still carry Grand/Black soul gems, and smaller ones not to waste them on skeevers, and skelitons.

 

[Jei El]

Wow, then I'm seriously doubting using the start as a main source for souls. I'll just use more money buying empty gems and finding them around skyrim, because now that you're mentioning all this the star isn't all that efficient.

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