In My Time of Need: Kematu or Saadia? (possible spoilers)

[Dagmar]

I had sadia arrested. I can vaguely remember the details since I did it when I was still a lowbie

Spoiler

I played both sides to see, but in the end kematu was telling the truth about bringing her to justice, because if you kill her he gets upset, they clearly wanted to put her on trial. If kematu was an assassin she would have already been dead. Or the dark brotherhood would have been hired.

clearly they wanted her alive to face justice. the thalmor have execution orders for her too. like I said i vaguely remember all the details.

You didn't have Saadia arrested. You handed her over to a bunch of mercs with highly questionable integrity. Kematu's reaction to your actions doesn't prove he wanted to bring her to justice. He's a bounty hunter. He's upset because he won't get paid for all his efforts which is pretty much what he says ("All that effort....you've ruined everything!"), and is also all he says regarding the matter. If you go over Saadia's initial dialogue with you in the Bannered Mare, even though she refers to them as "assassins" she explicitly says that if the Alik'r capture her they're going to drag her back to Hammerfell for execution by (ugh ) the occupying forces of the Aldmeri Dominion in Hammerfell so Kematu's reaction to what you did is completely consistent with her version of events.

 

[lulu doll]

it still doesn't change the fact that she's a wanted fugitive accused of being a traitor to the empire

 

[Dagmar]

it still doesn't change the fact that she's a wanted fugitive accused of being a traitor to the empire

There is no such "fact". That is simply Kematu's claim. There is no objective evidence in the game that there is a shred of truth to what he is saying.

 

[lulu doll]

the thalmor execution orders do

 

[Dagmar]

the thalmor execution orders do

There are no "thalmor execution orders" and even if there were they would be the opposite of objective evidence supporting Kematu's claim. That would support Saadia's version of events.

 

[lulu doll]

an execution order from a conspiracy point of view, could be used to silence her right? since she is involved in a conspiracy after all.

 

[theoperation]

the occupying forces of the Aldmeri Dominion in Hammerfell so Kematu's reaction to what you did is completely consistent with her version of events.

Hammerfell was handed over to the Dominion as part of the white-gold concordant, but the Alik'r managed to fight them off, as the Aldmeri forces were weakened after the Great War. So as of 4E 201, Hammerfell is independent. And they have no interest in helping the elves or the empire.


so yeah I go with Kematu

 

[Docta Corvina]

As I said, in this instance I personally can't be arsed with the finer details and truths of their respective stories/lore. I just plain don't like her. That's enough for me.

I'm not normally so heartless, but some NPCs just rub me the totally wrong way and they get what's coming to them.

 

[Raijin]

I always help Kematu. Saadia's a biyotch and I don't have time for or interest in that.

Brynjolf is a) HOT and b) totally okay with me botching that mission so poor Brand-Shei didn't have to go to jail. So marrying him after we became Nightingales was like...destined, man.

I think Brynjolf is cheating on you with Tonilia Just to let you know.

 

[Docta Corvina]

I think Brynjolf is cheating on you with Tonilia Just to let you know.

Friend, Tonilia knows her new place. As soon as I had my character marry him, she doesn't even speak anymore. No random dialogue with other characters, nothing. She just sits. And if she ever does, she'll be dead courtesy my console.

I'm not worried. Penelope's not worried. Got this.

 

[Dagmar]

Hammerfell was handed over to the Dominion as part of the white-gold concordant, but the Alik'r managed to fight them off, as the Aldmeri forces were weakened after the Great War. So as of 4E 201, Hammerfell is independent. And they have no interest in helping the elves or the empire.


so yeah I go with Kematu

But the developers ignored this when they designed this quest. For the purposes of this quest, Hammerfell is still as it was circa 4E 175 not 4E 201. This is why Kematu refers to the Redguard resistance being alive and well in Hammerfell. For the purposes of this quest that statement makes no sense at all if it were otherwise because the resistance hasn't existed for over 20 years.

If you don't accept this then Kematu is clearly lying and you've roleplayed your character as an ignorant, uneducated, easily guiled fool. Saadia is in her twenties to early thirties in age. The fall of Taneth to the Aldmeri Dominion for which Kematu accuses Saadia of colluding with the Thalmor occured around 25 years ago. The notion that Saadia would have played any kind of willing role in assisting the Thalmor as an infant or a toddler is ludicrous and yet your character has just bought into the absurd notion which was relayed to you by a paid-for-hire mercenary who employs criminals (bandits) that are responsible for robbing and murdering innocents on the roadways of Skyrim and whose fellow mercenaries harass every Redguard woman in Skyrim to the point of illegally kidnapping them and are condescending and completely unapologetic to the same women after they realize they're totally wrong.

You're much better off accepting the fact that the developers f***fed up regarding the lore, suspending adherence to it for this quest, and accepting that for the purposes of this quest you've temporarily stepped into an alternate reality Tamriel where Hammerfell is as it was circa 4E 175 even if it means you have no compelling reason to believe either Saadia or Kematu's version of events.

 

[azali100]

But the developers ignored this when they designed this quest. For the purposes of this quest, Hammerfell is still as it was circa 4E 175 not 4E 201. This is why Kematu refers to the Redguard resistance being alive and well in Hammerfell. For the purposes of this quest that statement makes no sense at all if it were otherwise because the resistance hasn't existed for over 20 years.

If you don't accept this then Kematu is clearly lying and you've roleplayed your character as in ignorant, uneducated, easily guiled fool. Saadia is in her twenties to early thirties in age. The fall of Taneth to the Aldmeri Dominion for which Kematu accuses Saadia of colluding with the Thalmor occured around 25 years ago. The notion that Saadia would have played any kind of willing role in assisting the Thalmor as an infant or a toddler is ludicrous and yet your character has just bought into the absurd notion which was relayed to you by a paid-for-hire mercenary who employs criminals (bandits) that are responsible for robbing and murdering innocents on the roadways of Skyrim and whose fellow mercenaries harass every Redguard woman in Skyrim to the point of illegally kidnapping them and are condescending and completely unapologetic to the same women after they realize they're totally wrong.

You're much better off accepting the fact that the developers f***fed up regarding the lore, suspending adherence to it for this quest, and accepting that for the purposes of this quest you've temporarily stepped into an alternate reality Tamriel where Hammerfell is as it was circa 4E 175 even if it means you have no compelling reason to believe either Saadia or Kematu's version of events.

Yeah this quest kind of confused me with the whole Aldemeri occupation thing...

 

[Dagmar]

an execution order from a conspiracy point of view, could be used to silence her right? since she is involved in a conspiracy after all.

You can create whatever you want to in your mind for the purposes of your roleplay in the game but there's no evidence of a conspiracy. The only things you really have to assess what is going on in the quest are Saadia's dialogues and actions and Kematu's dialogues and actions (and those of his fellow Alik'r). Saadia claims that the Alik'r are bounty hunters who will turn her over to the Thalmor for execution for acts of sedition in occupied Hammerfell. Kematu claims that she colluded with the Thalmor and played a key role in their taking of the city of Taneth and he is bringing her in for the bounty from the Redguard resistance. Who you choose to believe is up to you but there is nothing definitive in the game to compel belief one way or the other.

 

[theoperation]

the developers f***fed up regarding the lore

I think that's the most likely explanation...

 

[lulu doll]

You can create whatever you want to in your mind for the purposes of your roleplay in the game but there's no evidence of a conspiracy. The only things you really have to assess what is going on in the quest are Saadia's dialogues and actions and Kematu's dialogues and actions (and those of his fellow Alik'r). Saadia claims that the Alik'r are bounty hunters who will turn her over to the Thalmor for execution for acts of sedition in occupied Hammerfell. Kematu claims that she colluded with the Thalmor and played a key role in their taking of the city of Taneth and he is bringing her in for the bounty from the Redguard resistance. Who you choose to believe is up to you but there is nothing definitive in the game to compel belief one way or the other.

well that's where the problem begins first saadia claims they're assassins, then bounty hunters? someone's lying here. i thought that this who thread was about, how you handled this quest? i chose to hand her over because i strongly believe she's a traitor. i don't think that's going to change

 

[Coyote]

I helped saadia, because of my....more base needs.

​

 

[Dagmar]

well that's where the problem begins first saadia claims they're assassins, then bounty hunters? someone's lying here. i thought that this who thread was about, how you handled this quest? i chose to hand her over because i strongly believe she's a traitor. i don't think that's going to change

She labels them as assassins but she characterizes them as bounty hunters. There's no deception in those statements as one almost immediately follows the other. You claimed to have a smoking gun spoiler that definitively proved that Kematu was truthful and Saadia was not when you had nothing of the sort. How you choose to handle the quest is one thing but mischaracterizing game content as objectively canonizing one NPC's words as truth and another's as lies when it does nothing of the sort is another thing entirely.

 

[Hinga_101]

I send Saadia to her dead in Hammerfell but i was curious about this quest and looking at this forum have not changed my 1st impressions about this quest...

The Alikr warriors fought the Aldmeri Dominion at Hammerfell during the great war so the racist Aldmeri hiring their redguard enemies to look for Saadia instead of sending their own forces who can openly arrest people in Skyrim makes no sense

The Alikr warriors are just that Alikr warriors NOT the Alikr assasins NOT the Alikr mercenaries...

The Alikr warriors dnt have permission to enter the city but that means nothing the Khajit traders cant enter and they are not assassins the 1st time the player try to enter it a guard stops him saying the city is closed due to the current events with the attacks of a dragon and the Alikr prisoner was caught trying to sneak into the city thats all

The Alikr warriors move openly in Rorikstead (land owned by veterans of the great war)

If Saadia is really a noble hiding because she spoke against the Aldmeri why is she hiding in Skyrim? The north of Hammerfell was a safest place even during the great war

To me the developers just messed up the date of the events in Hammerfell...

Perhaps we get the answer in Elder Scrolls VI: Hammerfell XD

Ps Yes my english sucks i know XD

 

[DovahCap]

I was level five or six, something like that, when I found Kematu in the cave. He had seven friends, and they had curved swords, so I decided to help him instead of tanking and dieing.

 

[Dagmar]

....The Alikr warriors are just that Alikr warriors NOT the Alikr assasins NOT the Alikr mercenaries...

Alik'r is simply an adjective to describe Redguards from the northern region of Hammerfell bearing the same name. The Alik'r in Skyrim are mercenaries. It's not a matter open to debate because Kematu openly tells you he's a mercenary and is after Saadia for the bounty on her head which he offers to share with you. As to who is paying the bounty there's nothing definitive to indicate whether it's the resistance or the Dominion.

Bounty hunters and mercenaries are motivated primarily by money and the fact that the Aldmeri Dominion would be an occupying force and oppressor of Redguards hardly eliminates the possiblity that Redgaurd mercenaries would be willing to take its bounty if the price is right. You're quick to assume a Redguard woman would sell out the entire city of Taneth but equally as quick to dismiss the possibility that a group of Redguard mercenaries would sell out one Redguard woman. That's not exactly logical or consistent.

If Saadia is really a noble hiding because she spoke against the Aldmeri why is she hiding in Skyrim? The north of Hammerfell was a safest place even during the great war

Maybe in an alternate reality the north of Hammerfell was the safest place even during the Great War, but in the lore, Skyrim and High Rock were the safest provinces as there were no Aldmeri Dominion forces in either province, and any place in Hammerfell or Cyrodiil would have been less safe as the war fronts were located in those two provinces. After the Great War this is no less true since the war between the resistance and the Aldmeri Dominion would go on for another 5 years while the Empire had a peace treaty with the Aldmeri Dominion which couldn't violate the soveriegnty of the Empire by unilaterally seizing Saadia inside of the borders of the Empire.