Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Epic Keith]

I am sorry you did. Now you have Talibans, both in Pakistan and in Afghanistan.
You were being opresed? How?
By being told that you cant eat beef and that your religious beliefs are wrong?
Weird, I was sure that is what hapens in Skyirim, except the beef part.

As I stated we couldn't pray because the majority was oppressing the minority. They never stated our beliefs wrong, they just didn't like Muslims. Some say it was probably revenge for the 300 years under Mughal rule

In Skyrim the Majority can't worship their religion because of a drastic war and the price for peace was the banning of a single God

In India the Majority oppressed the Minority because they were Muslims


Very different actually

 

[Mookie]

As I stated we couldn't pray because the majority was oppressing the minority. They never stated our beliefs wrong, they just didn't like Muslims. Some say it was probably revenge for the 300 years under Mughal rule

In Skyrim the Majority can't worship their religion because of a drastic war and the price for peace was the banning of a single God

In India the Majority oppressed the Minority because they were Muslims


Very different actually

More powerfull empire and thalmor decide that something is wrong and some belief is wrong, it same.
Why didnt you just stay in India, I am sure it would end after 50 or a 100 years. And then it would be no opression and India would be stronger.

 

[Epic Keith]

More powerfull empire and thalmor decide that something is wrong and some belief is wrong, it same.
Why didnt you just stay in India, I am sure it would end after 50 or a 100 years. And then it would be no opression and India would be stronger.

Apparently you haven't seen a Pakistan vs India Cricket match. The fighting in the match pretty much displays how bad it could be in real life

Spoiler

And the real world is not equal to Tamriel

 

[Mookie]

Apparently you haven't seen a Pakistan vs India Cricket match. The fighting in the match pretty much displays how bad it could be in real life

Spoiler

And the real world is not equal to Tamriel

Actualy your situation is almost the same

 

[Mookie]

And still you have one standard for Nords and one for yourself.
And you actualy had it better.
There were no indian special forces draging you or your family members/neighbours to torture them and kill them.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Empire did not enforce the ban, everyone still worshiped Talos. It was Ulfric's Sons of Skyrim which the Thalmor used to their advantage to be able to begin a Talos Inquisition, dragging those off in the middle of the night for even secret worship. It's one of the main causes of the war, when the Thalmor started dragging people away, little did they realize it was to aid Ulfric's rebellion.

"We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down. Dragging people off in the middle of the night... one of the main causes of this war, if you ask me." Alvor

The more they drag away, the more raise up arms against the Empire out of fear. Without Ulfric or the Rebellion the Thalmor would have no excuse for this extreme enforcement of the treaty terms, the longer Ulfric remains at large, the longer the Thalmor can pressure the Empire into allowing them to enforce the treaty. The Legions being busy with the rebellion can't enforce the treaty, the Thalmor however use that to go wild across Skyrim, unchecked and unchallenged.

Before under complete Imperium control, the Thalmor would have to have evidence to make an arrest and they would take longer to even arrest those who worshiped loudly, such as the Bard who would sing about Talos everyday in Markarth for a week, which is the Thalmor Justiciar base of operations. It is also seen while under the Empire's firm hand, the Justiciar leader needs evidence to make an arrest, he asks you to handle it.

The Thalmor are not allowed complete freedom while under the Imperials watchful eye, like many Stormcloak supporters would suggest, you would think the Thalmor own the Empire. They don't, they have to abide by the treaty while they're around the Imperials, if they don't they can be thrown into prison or even executed for breaching their agreement. Outside in the other Holds, Whiterun etc and along the roads, there is drastically less Imperial patrols. This is noted by many within Skyrim that since all of the Soldiers are out fighting, the roads are becoming more dangerous. So the Thalmor can stroll around all they want because the Empire is busy fighting a Civil War and Cyrodiil hasn't got many reinforcements to send Tullius.

If I might add, they are damn smart those Thalmor, they do indeed have good cunning. They're able to do all they want while the rebellion is raging since the Imperials aren't there to stop them, this would put it in the minds of the common citizens that the Empire is failing to protect them and they would join Ulfric's rebellion and thus cause more Legionnaires to be sent to the battle lines, allowing the Thalmor Agents to repeat the circle of of their plan, but the most devious of this plan is they wouldn't be able to do this without Ulfric, no wonder they want him alive and why he's considered a valuable asset. Allow men to fight each other, while the Elves remain untouched.

"The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion." - Tullius

 

[Epic Keith]

Actualy your situation is almost the same

I beg to differ

 

[Mookie]

The Empire did not enforce the ban, everyone still worshiped Talos. It was Ulfric's Sons of Skyrim which the Thalmor used to their advantage to be able to begin a Talos Inquisition, dragging those off in the middle of the night for even secret worship. It's one of the main causes of the war, when the Thalmor started dragging people away, little did they realize it was to aid Ulfric's rebellion.

"We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down. Dragging people off in the middle of the night... one of the main causes of this war, if you ask me." Alvor

The more they drag away, the more raise up arms against the Empire out of fear. Without Ulfric or the Rebellion the Thalmor would have no excuse for this extreme enforcement of the treaty terms, the longer Ulfric remains at large, the longer the Thalmor can pressure the Empire into allowing them to enforce the treaty. The Legions being busy with the rebellion can't enforce the treaty, the Thalmor however use that to go wild across Skyrim, unchecked and unchallenged.

Before under complete Imperium control, the Thalmor would have to have evidence to make an arrest and they would take longer to even arrest those who worshiped loudly, such as the Bard who would sing about Talos everyday in Markarth for a week, which is the Thalmor Justiciar base of operations. It is also seen while under the Empire's firm hand, the Justiciar leader needs evidence to make an arrest, he asks you to handle it.

The Thalmor are not allowed complete freedom while under the Imperials watchful eye, like many Stormcloak supporters would suggest, you would think the Thalmor own the Empire. They don't, they have to abide by the treaty while they're around the Imperials, if they don't they can be thrown into prison or even executed for breaching their agreement. Outside in the other Holds, Whiterun etc and along the roads, there is drastically less Imperial patrols. This is noted by many within Skyrim that since all of the Soldiers are out fighting, the roads are becoming more dangerous. So the Thalmor can stroll around all they want because the Empire is busy fighting a Civil War and Cyrodiil hasn't got many reinforcements to send Tullius.

If I might add, they are damn smart those Thalmor, they do indeed have good cunning. They're able to do all they want while the rebellion is raging since the Imperials aren't there to stop them, this would put it in the minds of the common citizens that the Empire is failing to protect them and they would join Ulfric's rebellion and thus cause more Legionnaires to be sent to the battle lines, allowing the Thalmor Agents to repeat the circle of of their plan, but the most devious of this plan is they wouldn't be able to do this without Ulfric, no wonder they want him alive and why he's considered a valuable asset. Allow men to fight each other, while the Elves remain untouched.

"The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion." - Tullius

Epic nord, worship of Islam is banned untill some threat is dealt with.
Mosques are closed and you can only worship in secret.
The thing will be dealth with in 50-100 years
Wanna stay in India now?

 

[Epic Keith]

Epic nord, worship of Islam is banned untill some threat is dealt with.
Mosques are closed and you can only worship in secret.
The thing will be dealth with in 50-100 years
Wanna stay in India now?

Your argument is largely invalid and irrelevant. Also fabricated

 

[Ivory]

Epic nord, worship of Islam is banned untill some threat is dealt with.
Mosques are closed and you can only worship in secret.
The thing will be dealth with in 50-100 years
Wanna stay in India now?

Dude. What is wrong with you? This is Stormcloak and Imperial. You can't find legitimate reasons to defend Ulfric so you go after a member like that? And further still you try to act like you know what it's like for him? Grow up man.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Your argument is largely invalid and irrelevant. Also fabricated

Also was nothing to do with my post.

 

[Mookie]

Your argument is largely invalid and irrelevant. Also fabricated

Answer it. Would you accept it?
Leave islam or at least worship it secretly for 50-100 years for greater good.

 

[Mookie]

Dude. What is wrong with you? This is Stormcloak and Imperial. You can't find legitimate reasons to defend Ulfric so you go after a member like that? And further still you try to act like you know what it's like for him? Grow up man.

I am a muslim too.
I dont go after him, I ask him, would he accept something that he wants nords to accept for greater good.

 

[Ivory]

I am a muslim too.
I dont go after him, I ask him, would he accept something that he wants nords to accept for greater good.

Again, you are referring to him in a rude, and frankly disgusting way in the way you are directing these questions, accusingly as if he personally did something. He's clearly stated his view point and frankly I agree that its irrelevant to discuss here when there is no real comparison at all, similarities, a few perhaps, but they are not the same. Just back off and get back on topic.

 

[Epic Keith]

I am a muslim too.
I dont go after him, I ask him, would he accept something that he wants nords to accept for greater good.

It is to note that Tamriel is fiction.
1) Nords started suffering after the rebellion started.
2) Islamic law states that if one is oppressed, He must fight for his right or migrate , I have no qualms with the Nord fighting back although some of my statements may seems so. My only problem is Ulfric as a leader and his followers who do not see the consequences of Stormcloak victory

 

[DrunkenMage]

This is a very different situation. Firstly, Stormcloaks are not all the Nords, nor do they represent what Nords want. They are only the eastern holds, Skyrim is generally split down the middle being a civil war. Ulfric himself while goes on about tradition, and many Stormcloaks who talk of Nordic tradition go against it. Unless it suits Ulfric, Nordic tradition can generally hit the road in his mind.

His misuse of the voice would be a very strong insult to tradition and to the Goddess Kyne, who is a Nordic God. So it's like saying "We value tradition and the old ways... when they don't conflict with our great leader."

Ulfric is called a murderer and a traitor by many Nords, you as the Stormcloak are forcing other Nords to accept his way or be killed. "With us or against us" Attacking a neutral Nordic City, forcing Balgruuf to accept Imperial assistance just to protect his own people.

If you believe Stormcloaks represent all Nords, please explain to me how killing your own kind, sacking two cities is what is best for Nords? Stormcloaks are backwards Nords, xenophobic and unwilling to buy anything from Non-Nords, that isn't what Nords are. Nords are great traders and love going to other provinces, many becoming merchant ship Captains. Skyrim lives from buying from Non-Nords, placing a Xenophobic Government as the authority is something that would harm the livelihood of many within Skyrim, a province with many races.

People say they like rebellions, fighting against the Imperial authority. How do you think the Thalmor gained power? They were a minority just like the Stormcloaks were, then they swept across gaining ultimate power. Not all changes are good ones, many Altmer thought allowing the Thalmor to gain power was the best thing, until a few years later when people turn up dead for questioning their doctrines, then when they start doing racial purges of the Bosmer, slaughtering them. No one saw that coming in the early days of the Thalmor. Taking a look at Ulfric's ideology and his policies as a ruler, I wouldn't be surprised after awhile if a few elves turn up dead in Skyrim, then more and more. It all starts small, this racial discrimination is already spreading through the ranks of the Stormcloaks. There is tension between the Nords and the other races of elves, quite high tension. Wouldn't take much for a bit of ethnic cleansing to occur within Skyrim.

 

[Mookie]

It is to note that Tamriel is fiction.
1) Nords started suffering after the rebellion started.
2) Islamic law states that if one is oppressed, He must fight for his right or migrate , I have no qualms with the Nord fighting back although some of my statements may seems so. My only problem is Ulfric as a leader and his followers who do not see the consequences of Stormcloak victory

The consequences of faillure of british empire is wars in middle east, pakistani-indian war and secesion, with constant simering hate, shia-sunni division and conflicts, seting up of opressive regimes.

It is fiction, that is OK, I simply asked what would you do if that is required of you.
Meaning that you would probably rebel and say F this I wont do that.
Freedom doesnt come without consequences, but given choice between rejecting your beliefs in order to keep the peace long enough for your empire to do something (50-100 years) or sticking with your beliefs and rebeling, the choice for me is clear.

 

[Mookie]

Again, you are referring to him in a rude, and frankly disgusting way in the way you are directing these questions, accusingly as if he personally did something. He's clearly stated his view point and frankly I agree that its irrelevant to discuss here when there is no real comparison at all, similarities, a few perhaps, but they are not the same. Just back off and get back on topic.

I am not refering in a rude manner. I dont know that much english so I cant sugar coat everything the way a native englishman could.
I didnt come at him, I said, now that his country has freedom it has problems and it would be more stable and economicaly powerfull if it stayed as part of India, something that imperials always dont miss to say.
I make comparison between real world and here, so that the issue can be completely understoon.
It sounds diferent to ask someone reject your God and in 50 years its all gonna be allright in real life and in game doesnt it?

 

[Mookie]

This is a very different situation. Firstly, Stormcloaks are not all the Nords, nor do they represent what Nords want. They are only the eastern holds, Skyrim is generally split down the middle being a civil war. Ulfric himself while goes on about tradition, and many Stormcloaks who talk of Nordic tradition go against it. Unless it suits Ulfric, Nordic tradition can generally hit the road in his mind.

His misuse of the voice would be a very strong insult to tradition and to the Goddess Kyne, who is a Nordic God. So it's like saying "We value tradition and the old ways... when they don't conflict with our great leader."

Ulfric is called a murderer and a traitor by many Nords, you as the Stormcloak are forcing other Nords to accept his way or be killed. "With us or against us" Attacking a neutral Nordic City, forcing Balgruuf to accept Imperial assistance just to protect his own people.

If you believe Stormcloaks represent all Nords, please explain to me how killing your own kind, sacking two cities is what is best for Nords? Stormcloaks are backwards Nords, xenophobic and unwilling to buy anything from Non-Nords, that isn't what Nords are. Nords are great traders and love going to other provinces, many becoming merchant ship Captains. Skyrim lives from buying from Non-Nords, placing a Xenophobic Government as the authority is something that would harm the livelihood of many within Skyrim, a province with many races.

People say they like rebellions, fighting against the Imperial authority. How do you think the Thalmor gained power? They were a minority just like the Stormcloaks were, then they swept across gaining ultimate power. Not all changes are good ones, many Altmer thought allowing the Thalmor to gain power was the best thing, until a few years later when people turn up dead for questioning their doctrines, then when they start doing racial purges of the Bosmer, slaughtering them. No one saw that coming in the early days of the Thalmor. Taking a look at Ulfric's ideology and his policies as a ruler, I wouldn't be surprised after awhile if a few elves turn up dead in Skyrim, then more and more. It all starts small, this racial discrimination is already spreading through the ranks of the Stormcloaks. There is tension between the Nords and the other races of elves, quite high tension. Wouldn't take much for a bit of ethnic cleansing to occur within Skyrim.

I am tired of detached and repeated discussions.
Instead of some far off place I brought that decision here to make.
To understand completely what it means, something everyone fails to understand, otherwise they wouldnt bring up issue of not all nords, and two cities.

 

[Ivory]

I am not refering in a rude manner. I dont know that much english so I cant sugar coat everything the way a native englishman could.
I didnt come at him, I said, now that his country has freedom it has problems and it would be more stable and economicaly powerfull if it stayed as part of India, something that imperials always dont miss to say.
I make comparison between real world and here, so that the issue can be completely understoon.
It sounds diferent to ask someone reject your God and in 50 years its all gonna be allright in real life and in game doesnt it?

You are ignoring the fact that both situations are not the same situation. The Empire is not oppressing Skyrim.