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Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

Discussion in 'General Skyrim Discussion' started by EvilCrazyCows, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. DarkBeckyhood

    DarkBeckyhood Member

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    There is no right choice between the Empire and the Stormcloaks, and I think that was deliberate on Bethesda's part.

    The Empire is an empire. That alone should be anathema to those of us with modern sensibilities. But they aren't racists. They're very metropolitan, and don't seem to make any legal distinctions between the races (even if in practice there's some cultural racism lingering in the Empire). They have presided over an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity, enabled free trade, safety, and kept Akaviri invasions at bay numerous times, and the Dragonborn emperors kept the forces of Oblivion out of Nirn for a very long time. It was an Imperial force that stopped the Oblivion crisis. The Empire has, by and large, been a good thing for Tamriel. And they are certainly the best hope Tamriel has for stemming the total dominance of Nirn's version of National Socialists - the Thalmor.

    But then the Aldmeri Dominion happened, and the Great War proved that when it is in trouble, the Empire will happily sacrifice its provinces and their rights in exchange for the security of Cyrodiil. They may be complying with the Thalmor's demands as a feint to build up their strength once again, but that didn't help the people of Hammerfell, and it hasn't helped people who worship Talos. But despite all that, as soon as the next war comes around, you can guarantee that the Empire will be demanding support from Skyrim and its people, should they remain a province!

    The Stormcloaks are a reaction to that. They ostensibly want Skyrim to be self-governed, so that distant Cyrodiilic interests can't trample all over their rights and traditions. I'm sure that to Americans in particular, this must ring true, and that might well have been the point (Bethesda being an American studio, after all). And there is something to be said for self-governance, even in the bizarre political climate of a place like Skyrim. Disparate cultures are rarely benefited by centralised leadership. Look at the Soviet Union. Heck, look at the European Union. The Stormcloaks want religious freedom, and in a world where gods are real and active, religious freedom seems like an even more important thing to fight for than it is here. They want the Thalmor to stop arresting, torturing, and killing innocent Skyrim citizens. Seems reasonable to me. And most of them don't hate the Empire, they just hate the Thalmor. If the Thalmor weren't wandering around Skyrim arresting people, I doubt Ulfric's rebellion would have gotten off the ground (and don't they know it).

    But they are colossal racists, to the point where I'm not sure that an independent Skyrim would benefit if they were in charge, and they're led by a self-serving narcissist who's firmly in the pocket of the Thalmor. Ulfric may well believe that Skyrim would be better off out of the Empire, but that's not why he's leading the rebellion, and I doubt it actually would be if he was leading it. And a crumbling Empire means a dominant Dominion, who are the other racists. Thalmor dominance categorically wouldn't be a benefit to Skyrim at all. Look at the way Ondolemar talks about Skyrim and the Nords. His type of thinking isn't unique in the Aldmeri Dominion.

    Hammerfell survived because they were fighting a weakened, war-weary Dominion; so weakened, in fact, that it is commonly accepted that the Empire could probably have foregone signing the White-Gold Concordat and pushed back into the Summerset Isles, defeating them completely. They're not weakened any more. Like the Empire, they've been building up their strength, ready for round two. Skyrim wouldn't stand a chance on their own. They can't even kick the Empire out without a Dragonborn helper! Heck, they'd nearly lost at the start of the game!



    So with all this considered, the 'right' choice is whatever your character thinks is the 'right' choice, really. You can't even base the choice on what race your character is - the game itself keeps throwing up curveballs in that regard. Imperials and Altmer who support the Stormcloaks, Bosmer who hate the Thalmor, Nords who are of course conflicted, Redguards who support the Empire... there's no lore reason for any race to be particularly keen on either side. So it has to be a personal choice on the part of your character, with their own motivations and loyalties tied into it. I've just started playing an Imperial woman who only resigned from 10 years' of Imperial Legion service and became a mercenary because a fellow soldier she was close with died on duty. She visited Skyrim to pay her respects to his grave in Falkreath before getting reluctantly dragged back into Imperial service, because she is still loyal to the Empire and didn't want to see it fall apart. I've also played a Nord thief who supported the Stormcloaks because she thought that law enforcement in Skyrim would take a turn for the worse if the Empire was kicked out!
     
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  2. napoleon336

    napoleon336 New Member

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    I was a Stormcloak my first playthrough. I bought into Ulfric's crap. Upon reading more I realized I'm on the Imperial side. Got the remaster on ps4 and now am an Imperial.
     
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  3. Nephor The Shadow Stalker

    Nephor The Shadow Stalker Strike swiftly and silently.

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    In the past I've always sided with the Empire. I mean they were the good guys right? Even with them attempting to lob off my head without a trial is simply a mistake. Point is I over lookes it. Now I'm learning more and more about the Storm Cloaks and Role Playing as a Breton Battlemage I decided to embrace being Dragonborn for an idea. Obviously since the story is so linear and you're given the 2 options. There's a 3rd to promote peace but I always ended up picking the Empire. Now I read a lot of books in Skyrim and they fill in subtle details. A Strom Cloak victory won't break Tamriel it'll just reform it and they will be a greater threat to the Thalmor in the end. If you played the main story the Thalmor's intentions are spelled out for you and though Skyrim will be a little viole t towards outsiders but the world itself will be safe the Thalmor plight a while longer.

    Sent from my LGMS428 using Tapatalk
     
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  4. Nephor The Shadow Stalker

    Nephor The Shadow Stalker Strike swiftly and silently.

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    Man I made a lot of errors.

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  5. fantasyjunkie

    fantasyjunkie New Member

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    Imperials because Romans are cool. I know they're nott Romans, but you know what I mean lol.
     
  6. Tuatara

    Tuatara New Member

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    I'm going to go with the Imperials this time after 2 times with the Stormcloaks and once I remained neutral.
     
  7. JRMoosePaul

    JRMoosePaul Stormcloak Warrior

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    I side with the Stormcloaks because my ideals seam to line up with theirs. The reason Nords are stereotypical is because of past events caused by those races (at least that's how I see it). I'm not saying I support these stereotypes but I understand their view point. I could say more but you can just ask me questions if you wanna know about specific things.
     
  8. Davimiir

    Davimiir Yol Toor Shul!!!

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    I'm a true Nord, but I fight for the Empire because Stormcloak is a traitor to the way of the voice. I'm new to ES but I've read many books and conclude Ulfrich is a gangster! :) Wish I could write more but my internet is being really slow!!!
     
  9. jack_woods

    jack_woods New Member

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    SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS!!!!
     
  10. Ancano

    Ancano High Justiciar

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    Ok Ok I'll drop the Thalmor thing for now, until the time when it proves necessary.

    Hmmm.

    In my time away, one thing I noticed between sites (even when I wasn't looking for it) was how some Skyrim websites so uncharacteristically demonize General Tullius.

    By now everyone knows General Tullius rather well and his Lt, Rikka. Most have even experienced the Imperial side of the Civil War Quest line. So it comes as no surprise then why Stormcloak supporters loathe him however what drives me up the wall is this 'passive aggressive' bias hidden in some sites that portray themselves as 'lore archives' (I like to call them) or experts on Skyrim subject matter, in particular the Civil War.

    In the middle of explaining the Skyrim Civil War they tend to put a negative light on the Imperial General and fail to critique Ulfric Stormcloak in same manner. Details are missing or casually passed over, such as an in depth look at the Markarth Incident and for example the apparent atrocities committed there by the Stormcloaks. First mentioned by Lt Rikka at the High Hrothgar Peace Negotiation(s) with the same neither proven false or successfully refuted by the Stormcloaks. This alone proves the Empire is capable of telling the truth and Stormcloaks are not entirely telling the truth.

    Lacking explanations and selective interpretations meant to spoil the minds of those not entirely familiar with the events and ppl that led up to the Skyrim Civil War, particularly in Skyrim itself ultimately does not help anyone's cause and leaves opportunities for public opinion to inflate one side's cause as being more favorable over another. What's probably most disturbing is if history is written by the Victors and neither side has thus far officially 'won' the Civil War then will Stormcloak sympathizers eventually decide the ultimate winner by distorting the presentation of facts for the benefit of hijacking Public Opinion, unrelated to the actual mechanics of the Civil War that would under normal circumstances determine it's outcome? And if so, they haven't really won anything because the cause itself has been over-written by another parties biased view of what they decide is 'the right outcome', outside the desire for either cause and the result thus being what is seen as being politically correct to themselves.
     
    #20970 Ancano, Aug 27, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  11. Noah LoLer

    Noah LoLer New Member

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  12. Eric_The_Generic

    Eric_The_Generic Hawquinel, Wood Elf, Level 62

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    I always follow Hadvar so I can get the extra loot faster without having to run back to the starting room, but over time I began to understand that Ulfric Stormcloak is just a power-hungry dude with no regard for other people's intentions. I understand that siding with the Stormcloaks is like saying, "We don't care about the Thalmor, we'll die protecting our land!" But, then again they won't HAVE any land to protect when the Elves come in, killing all Talos-worshipers in sight. The Empire is doing what they do, and that's protecting the people of Tamriel. No one said the Nords had to give up every other aspect of their life, just the worship of a man that is dead and gone.
     
    #20972 Eric_The_Generic, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
  13. Ancano

    Ancano High Justiciar

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    It bothered me when they kept talking about torching Whiterun over and over again. I mean, you know... this is not the Thalmor talking here this is just someone who learned to appreciate Whiterun. And Ulfric is asking for peace with the axe gesture and he's already got a forward camp setup - conducting ops - throughout Whiterun with his thuggers telling Mer such as myself to 'move' or 'leave' etc.

    If you take away Whiterun's freedom he can do the same everywhere else. It really offended me the thought of harming Jarl B (or anyone in Whiterun) without any form of sane, reasonable provocation. I mean, lol Jarl B is bit of a fruit cup but hey, you can have that or someone like Ulfric who condemns and removes everyone who won't bow down.
     
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    #20973 Ancano, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  14. Daelon DuLac

    Daelon DuLac How do you backstab a Dragon?

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    I keep trying to join the Stormies, but then I meet Ulfic and that's it... off to join jackhat Tulius. Every...single...time. Nord, non-Nord, male, female, warrior, mage, thief... it just doesn't matter. I simply can't justify joining the Stormcloaks. I cannot RP it. I just can't. The represent everything I find deplorable in this world and everything I find deplorable on Nirn.

    I just can't. I feel so dirty...
     

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  15. JRMoosePaul

    JRMoosePaul Stormcloak Warrior

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    I'm trying to be quiet about everything but it's hard when Imperial dogs don't know what they're talking about


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  16. DrunkenMage

    DrunkenMage Intoxicated Arch-Mage

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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. JRMoosePaul

    JRMoosePaul Stormcloak Warrior

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  18. Eric_The_Generic

    Eric_The_Generic Hawquinel, Wood Elf, Level 62

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    What I hate is that even if you beat the storyline for the civil war, the patrolling troops around Skyrim still treat you like you're a citizen. Like, wtf I just defeated a racist power-hungry group of rebels, who are you TALKING to like that...
     
  19. JRMoosePaul

    JRMoosePaul Stormcloak Warrior

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    At least Stormcloaks have honor


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  20. Daelon DuLac

    Daelon DuLac How do you backstab a Dragon?

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    Stormies don't even know how to spell "honor". Please, they can barely stand upright without their nuckles dragging.

    They're so braindead, even the zombies that invaded ignore them.
     

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