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Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

Discussion in 'General Skyrim Discussion' started by EvilCrazyCows, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. Ozan

    Ozan the Magnificent Bastard

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    They could look like the Imga, but that wouldn't make their cause any less wrong where as the Imperials very stench reeks of the Thalmor. Free apes over Elf puppets.
     
  2. Daelon DuLac

    Daelon DuLac How do you backstab a Dragon?

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    I like my puppets.
     
  3. Kohlar the Unkilled

    Kohlar the Unkilled Time for some ale

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    I've made a Nord who fought for the Empire, and a Khajiit who fought for the Stormcloaks. I've made many a character who fought for neither. I seem to be in the minority in leaving this decision up to the individual character that I create.
     
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  4. Ozan

    Ozan the Magnificent Bastard

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    My Khajiit fought for the Stormcloaks. After all, the cities who sided with the Empire ALSO won't let Khajiit in. At least the Stormcloaks never tried to decapitate anyone without probable cause first.
     
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  5. Asmund Fire-helm

    Asmund Fire-helm New Member

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    I almost never pick the empire, unless I'm creating a Lawful Evil character, or a Thalmor Puppet.
     
  6. lj0zh123

    lj0zh123 New Member

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    I will always pick the empire

    OOC: I remember when this thread always get a daily reply been too long..
     
  7. Ozan

    Ozan the Magnificent Bastard

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    Just gotta stoke the fires. I used to be on this thread daily.
     
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  8. The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass

    The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass Sahrot Vahlok Spaan. Bahnahgaar. Minion #88!
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    I don't see the Stormcloaks as a viable faction for the future of Skyrim in any regard except on an emotional level. They're too small, too weak, and are easily manipulated. They don't have the manpower or the funds to take on the Dominion alone. A united Empire stands the best chance. Period.
     
  9. Papoy

    Papoy DON'T EXPECT SPOILER WARNINGS FROM ME

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    And what does Empire have? They exist because Thalmor allows them to exist, and will continue to exist as long as Thalmor wants. Don't forget how decimated Empire got in the Great War, in a peak of its power. What can Empire do now, with more than half of its territory gone and Cyrodill swarming with Thalmor soliders? Nothing. Nor can the Stormcloacks.
    In the end, Thalmor will prevail, no matter what you choose. Period.

    Its not good to seek arguments in "who can stand up to Thalmor" when no1 can...
     
  10. The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass

    The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass Sahrot Vahlok Spaan. Bahnahgaar. Minion #88!
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    I don't think you understand the motivations of the Dominion if you think they'd let the Empire off the hook, and at any rate it's just our speculation. And the Empire was also nowhere near the peak of its power, it was the weakest it's been in a very long time and they still stalemated the Dominion.

    If the Dominion could have defeated the Empire but didn't, that doesn't make them grand geniuses, it makes them asinine fools. They took the Empire by surprise, but now the Empire is wary and is taking time to prepare and recover. You don't give an enemy time to recover if you can help it. They had the element of surprise against a weakened empire and still blew it.

    The only chance the Dominion really has is if the Empire further fractures itself.
     
  11. Papoy

    Papoy DON'T EXPECT SPOILER WARNINGS FROM ME

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    Indeed, mistake on my part. But now Empire is even weaker, with or without Skyrim..

    It is negotiable wether Dominion would win if war continued, but the odds were completly in their favor even after loss of Imperial City.

    By this, are you implying that Empire would actualy win(?) if they took Skyrim back under their wing? No. And its not me that says this but a map of Tamriel. Valenwood is with Thalmor even before the Great War, Elsweyr too. Black March still under impression of Oblivion Crysis. Morrowind still destroyed from eruption of the Red Mountain, and with most of its population gone, it likely wont go back on its feet. Hammerfell is now mostly Thalmor with petty remains of Al'kir who have cut their ties with Empire. And what remains? Cyrodill and Skyrim. As for Cyrodill, it is stated multiple times that that province id swarming with Thalmor soliders, especialy the Imperial City. In other words, Cyrodill is as good as dead. When Second Great War takes its place, Curodill will likely be gone within few days, week or two at most. And only one thats left is Skyrim.
    Again, it's not just me saying this, thalmor themselves stated this in their books. They don't want anyone to emerge victorious from this Civil War. Why? Because Skyrim is only province thats left of Tamriel to conquer.

    And finaly, don't underestimate Stormcloacks. They are just as capable as Imperials, but wearing different colours and name.
     
  12. The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass

    The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass Sahrot Vahlok Spaan. Bahnahgaar. Minion #88!
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    The Argonians are fine. The only place Red Mountain REALLY impacted was Vvardenfall, which is in the process of being rebuilt. Look up "The Red Year". What is your source on Hammerfell being occupied? Last I checked, they sent the Dominion packing. As far as Cyrodill, at most they might have a few agents and ambassadors to make sure the treaty is upheld, but not an occupation of any real scale. Also, the Imperials state multiple times that they're getting ready for war, and the conflict in Skyrim is just a prelude to the main event.

    The Stormcloaks are certainly tough, but they have nowhere near the manpower or the money of The Empire. Even at their absolute best, and assuming that they could present an actual threat to the Dominion, that threat still isn't as large as The Empire proper. If it wasn't for Alduin, Ulfric would have had his head removed.
     
  13. Papoy

    Papoy DON'T EXPECT SPOILER WARNINGS FROM ME

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    No notes on argonians taking side in the great war although Black March is part of Empire. Most likely because they also fought Daedra during OC. Many, many Dunmer fled from Morrowind, repairs started, but thats one thing. It's way more difficult to raise an army when your population is cut half. Thank you for correcting me about Hammerfell, though, their ties with Empire are too bitter now. Empire can't really count on them in the upcoming Great War. After all, redguards were annoyed with them after they accepted WGC, hence why they continued to fight. Some really hard negotiations would need to take place, it was long gained trust that was betrayed that day. Ironicly, I see better chances for Ulfric and Hammerfell to make an alliance, since Ulfric was also struck hard by WGC, rather than Empire and Hammerfell who are on bitter relations.
    Stormcloacks are getting ready for war too, right after you finish their quest-line. And if Hammerfell could hold their ground, why can't Skyrim?

    Aldmeri Dominion are organisation that never takes action unless it's completely, and only in their benefit. They started Great War, naming him First War with the Empire, most probably implying that they planned more wars to take place, from the start. Also, the solider's they planted in Cyrodill are completely enough to keep their hands tied. Emperor can't do anything without their knowledge.

    I still believe Thalmor will win next great war, and what they do will trigger the events of TES VI. "Mortals who dare play God must pay steep price". I expect Divine retrobution to Thalmor in next TES games, but that remains to be seen.
     
    #20953 Papoy, May 7, 2017
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  14. Ozan

    Ozan the Magnificent Bastard

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    Hammerfell is able to hold back the entirety of the Aldmeri Dominion back by themselves. If they can do it, so could a Stormcloak Skyrim. The Empire consists of what... High Rock, Orsinium, and Cyrodiil. Morrowind belongs to the Argonians, Hammerfell is supposed to belong to the Dominion and Elsweyr, Valenwood, and the Summerset Isles definitely belong to the Dominion.

    If the Empire allowed MORROWIND to be overtaken by Argonians, then they're not a good fit. The Argonians were a guerrilla race back in Morrowind (admittedly 200 years). Here's a quote.

    "They are known as the foremost experts in guerrilla warfare throughout the Starry Heart, a reputation brought upon them by defending their borders from enemies for countless centuries."

    Now, I don't know about you, but if your society focuses on guerrilla warfare, you're focusing on defending rather than conquest. So, that means the Empire either failed to defend Morrowind or made Morrowind defend itself. Thus, the Empire is either unable to properly defend the territories or the territories must defend themselves, so why bother at all? If the Dominion invaded Skyrim and Cyrodiil at the same time, you can bet the legion won't be defending Skyrim.
     
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  15. Yingvar war wolf

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    The STORMCLOAKS don't tend to like any race other than nords. They also don't like mages. I personally favor the cloaks. They are the good guys in my opinion. But in the end it's up to preference. I personally think ulfric is awesome.
     
  16. The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass

    The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass Sahrot Vahlok Spaan. Bahnahgaar. Minion #88!
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    Hammerfell held their ground because 1: They still had trapped legionnaires that were cut off from returning to the Empire and 2: They were only fighting a part of the Dominion while the Empire took on the majority. Regardless of anyone's emotions on the topic, the *fact* is that no single province, not Hammerfell not Skyrim, can *possibly* rival the amount of money, manpower, and general resources of the Empire proper. Maybe they can put up a better fight than Cyrodill itself, but *not* an Empire composed of multiple provinces. A united force is *always* stronger than an individual force.
     
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  17. Papoy

    Papoy DON'T EXPECT SPOILER WARNINGS FROM ME

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    Then, all the more reason to support "choice you make doesn't matter faction" faction. Conquering an independent country is infinitely more difficult than counquering an already subjugated one. If that what you said is true, and Hammerfell cannot stand alone, then there is no need to rush, right? It will be conquered sooner or later. Thalmor's job went from "Conquer the Tamriel" to "Conquer 3 weak provinces, 1 is already dead (Cyrodill)".
     
  18. korutsuru

    korutsuru New Member

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    It enterily depends on the character you are roleplaying, for example, you can be a High Elf whose grandsons were killed by the stormclocks, then he decided to take the revenge in his own hands... but the emotional scars will be with him forever.

    Again, this is roleplay...

     
  19. Ozan

    Ozan the Magnificent Bastard

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    Hammerfell was let go after the White-Gold Concordat. Despite being let go, they continued the fight against the Aldmeri Dominion. You'd think the primary focus of the Aldmeri Dominion would be sent there to subjugate them... however, that's hardly the case as their primary army was destroyed at the Battle of Red Ring, where their Xbox's wouldn't turn on. For now, Hammerfell has literally been on their own since, fighting the High Elves on their own.

    Er... sure, I guess it is Roleplay, but not to judge or anything but...

    http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Arivanya

    http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ulundil

    http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Niranye

    http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Nurelion

    Admittedly, only four people in Windhelm's population of like 50-60, but their population matches the Argonians who are supposed to be oppressed or whatever. Despite being xenophobic asshats it would appear that the Stormcloaks, at least within their Stormcloak capital where their people seem to be overtly more racist more than any other place for the sole reason that it gives them giggles and jollies, don't really have anything against Altmer. I mean, Argonians and Dunmer are often given a lot of plops, but Altmer aren't barred from living outside the Gray Quarter. They don't seem to consistently harass Altmer on the street. Unless those grandsons were Altmer Justicars, I doubt the Stormcloaks would go out of their way there.
     
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  20. Rimfaxe96

    Rimfaxe96 Well-Known Member

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    New lore, new fuel for this discussion. Haven't played Elder Scrolls Legends myself but just yesterday stumbled across one of its story mode contents on UESP.

    The storyline is called "The Forgotten Hero", you can read all dialogue here chapter by chapter + a nice looking picture for each part: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Legends:The_Forgotten_Hero

    I began reading with eagerness to see what details about the Imperial City's occupation might be revealed, but was quickly disappointed.

    - Naarifin is reduced to a minor Mannimarco (hell, he even looks like Mannimarco). Lore books (I think Rising Threat? Not sure though...) already hinted that daedra worship grew more popular in Alinor, but sacrificing the entire population of the Imperial City - with the Dominion's main army inside?! - is way too rash for a shady group of people whose "plan is laid out in decades", as stated in Lords of Souls.
    - The Orb of Vaermina is a much more interesting detail and of course a great advantage for the Dominion (= being able to track the Imperial Legion); yet without it the Dominion army immediately fell apart in their first battle without it like a house of cards (the Battle of the Red Ring). This makes the Dominion seem weak as hell.
    - The story also makes the Emperor look weaker since he never participated in the Battle of the Red Ring due to being injured by assassins.

    Meh. If anything, all 3 main political parties (ignore the Forsworn) of Skyrim seem pretty bland now. Judging from the way the Aldmeri Dominion is pictured in Elder Scrolls Legends the Empire will just waltz all the way to Alinor's shores like a landslide.
     
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