How much damage can a brawler-type character do?

[ActualFox]

A few videos and forum posts that I have come across have raised questions regarding the maximum damage that a Khajiit with a focus on melee combat can dish out.

Here’s what I know up to this point:

- Khajiit deal 22 points in unarmed damage (10 points base damage, 12 more with their Claw ability).
- The Fists of Steel perk adds the base armor of Heavy Armor gauntlets to base unarmed damage.
- The enchantment on the Gloves of the Pugilist deals 10 more points of damage in unarmed combat.

As far as I understand, the Gloves of the Pugilist can be disenchanted and the enchantment can be placed on a set of gauntlets and a ring of the player’s choice. This adds up to a total of 60 points of unarmed damage (assuming that the player is a Khajiit, wearing a set of Daedric gauntlets, and has two Fortify Unarmed Damage items).

One video I watched recommended pursuing the Dual Flurry and Dual Savagery perks from the One-Handed tree to increase overall damage output through power attacks. That said, I am wondering if it is possible to increase the overall amount of damage that could be dealt with this sort of character.

Let’s say that this character were to have 100 Enchanting, all five of the Enchanter perks, as powerful a Fortify Enchanting potion that can be made, and the best possible set of Fortify Enchanting gear. Assuming that there isn’t a cap to this enchantment or to the strength of potions and enchanted gear, my math says that this enchantment would theoretically increase to a level far above 10 points of damage, even without taking advantage of glitches. Are there factors that I am not aware of? Just how powerful can the Fortify Unarmed Damage enchantment be made?

Additionally, Lycanthropy increases unarmed damage but (as far as I understand) this bonus only applies when in Beast Form. There is a bit of uncertainty regarding Vampirism, however, as there is some information that I have come across that makes the insinuation that the condition increases unarmed damage in general. I am also unsure whether the Poison Talons perk from the Vampire skill tree applies outside of Vampire Lord form. The Ring of the Beast also is reported to increase health by 100 points and unarmed damage by 20 points. Do the effects of this ring apply outside of Vampire Lord form? Will the Poison Talons perk increase unarmed damage in all situations or only as a Vampire Lord? Does Vampirism raise a Khajiit’s unarmed damage beyond 22 points?

If any of you guys can answer these questions for me, I’d appreciate it!

 

[Lady Redpool the Unlifer]

I've actually played a character like this, and you are correct in your math and a few of your questions have positive answers!!

From what I remember, the highest unarmed damage bonus that was achieved through enchanting was +13. Applied to a ring and gloves that added to +26. This was however done before the release of the Dragonborn DLC which added black book benefits and Ahzidal's Armor. These combined with 100 enchanting and the enchanting-alchemy loop may now uield higher results.

That being said, the ring of the beast from the Dawnguard DLC DOES add 20 points to your unarmed damage, both in vampire lord form AND out. Other perks within the vampire lord tree and the vampire lord unarmed boost only count while in vampire lord form.

The highest bonus is likely to be achieved through being a Khajiit wearing daedric gauntlets, enchanted with fortify unarmed, and wearing a ring of the beast. You'll need the Fists of Steel perk, 100 enchanting, 5/5 enchanter, Insightful Enchanter(this one is questionable. The fortify enchantment functions much like a skill enchantment, but no noticeable results were found. I'd grab it to be safe), 100 Alchemy, 5/5 Alchemist, Physician(to reach benefactor), Benefactor, Azhidal's armor to achieve the Azhidal's genius benefit to your enchantments, and access to the black book: Sallow regent to switch between the seeker of sorcery effect to boost enchanting and seeker of shadows to boost alchemy.

All of the enchanting boosts and alchemy boosts would be used to enchant a strong set of fortify alchemy gear, which is then used along with alchemy bonuses to create strong fortify enchanting potions, which are then used again with all of you fortify enchanting bonuses to make more alchemy gear. This process repeats until you hit the "cap", or the point at which you no longer increase the effects. This process can be furthered by abusing the necromage perk while being a vampire, as your active effects will be stronger due to you being undead.

Most of that is likely unnecessary, as this will only increase the damage from the enchantment on your gauntlets, which is likely to remain your lowest increase to damage. It's still something however, so if you want to maximise it, maximise your enchanting/alchemy bonuses!!

A few side things to help you with your brawler:
Sneak attacking doubles your unarmed damage.
The dual wielding perks in the one handed tree DO affect unarmed fighting, but not the actual damage.
You will be in close combat quite often, with no ability to block, so heavy armor is your friend, as are cloak spells.
While it takes away a bit of the "brawler" feel you can use a shield while fighting unarmed with one hand, giving you access to bashing and blocking, though the one handed tree's dual-wield bonuses will be of no help with this style.
Torches count as shields! Shields that can set people on fire!

Good luck with your brawler, and have fun!

 

[ActualFox]

Lady Redpool, thank you so much for responding! You've given me a great deal of fantastic information. This answered a lot of questions for me.

Out of curiosity, do you know if Fortify Unarmed Damage can be placed on both gauntlets and a ring? Or can the enchantment only be placed on gauntlets?

 

[Lady Redpool the Unlifer]

I believe it can be put on both gauntlets and a ring. I never actually enchanted a ring, as I opted to get the ring of the beast. From what I remember on the wiki and from the enchanting menu it should be possible on both.

 

[ActualFox]

Wonderful! Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I wish that I could give you more than just one reputation point.

 

[Nighthiker77]

There was a lot of discussion about unarmed damage if you search for the "Batman build" on here

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Lady Redpool the Unlifer]

There was a lot of discussion about unarmed damage if you search for the "Batman build" on here

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Actually, other than the video linked in one of the responses, that thread consists of misinformation and the answer "just install mods." and of course, the suggestion of batman looking gear. There is very little discussion about unarmed damage and what is there isn't the full information because the thread leaves out all of the DLC related information.