And that question was legitimately answered over and over again. Yet you continue to argue against it. For a guy that isn't a proponent of incest you sure seem eager to jump in the ring to defend it, and for days on end. I'm not saying that you have a proclivity towards incest. What I am saying is that your telling us that you are just asking an innocent question without agenda is hogwash.
Homosexuals
- Thread starter Lifts-Her-Tail
- Start date
And that question was legitimately answered over and over again. Yet you continue to argue against it. For a guy that isn't a proponent of incest you sure seem eager to jump in the ring to defend it, and for days on end. I'm not saying that you have a proclivity towards incest. What I am saying is that your telling us that you are just asking an innocent question without agenda is hogwash.
Brizzle Kicks
Welcome To The Underground
Neither am I but I know the difference between being gay and being a wrong un and shagging a family member.
Mookie
Active Member
Please go back to http://skyrimforum.com/threads/once...cussion-about-incest.22604/page-5#post-327473 and read my respones and stands on incest instead of calling my name for suporting it when I am clearly doing the oposite.
I don't need to. All I need to do is go back to post No. 161 of this thread.
Mookie said:
Now, I have been trying to be nice about things, but if you can't be bothered to keep up with your own argument, you can't expect anyone else to listen to what you have to say.
Mookie
Active Member
If you are going to go on personal attacks then we have nothing to talk about. I asked a fu... question, I didnt rape anyone so stop acting like I did.
Holy strawman, Batman. So I am now personally attacking you and accusing you of rape to boot?
Mookie
Active Member
You are acusing me of suporting incest troughout my time on this forum while I was doing the oposite, and yet you refuse to look that up. Instead you are calling me out for suporting it on other threads. Now if that isnt personal I dont know what is
Mookie
Active Member
Its legal in germany, france, not sure about UK, russia, most of europe basicaly
No, you told me that you had no interest in this subject and was not tyring to argue a point. I showed you that you were. I argued the point, not the person. No names were called. Not once did I infer that you were personally interested in incest. From post No. 184:
Two Bears said:
I can't make it more clear than that.
Because it is true. Are you not arguing the pro-incest rights chair in this virtual debate? If not, then what in holy hell are we discussing?
Mookie
Active Member
No, I am not arguin pro incest rights. I am not arguing anything. I am interested in how do people decide what is normal and what is not. What is diference between homosexuality and bestiality for example since incest is so problematic
Sigh. And we're back to this again. Thank you for wasting an hour of my night Mookie. Have fun with........whatever it is you're doing in here.
Medea
The Shadow Queen
I can see what everyone is trying to say here. I just think that the differences are apparent. Pedophiles and zoophiles might very well be born that way. It's just like the argument that gays "choose to be gay". No. Heterosexuals are born hetero, so why would anyone think gays "choose to be gay", especially in societies where they are abused, killed or even "raped straight"?
My view is that the difference lies in whether TRUE consent is given, and not instilled into, or forced on to someone. No one can tell me a daughter really consents to sexual relations with her father. her father is sick and seduced her, telling her her whole life that is was "perfectly natural" for a parent to have sex with his child. It could be the other way around. The daughter could seduce the father in a moment of weakness or loneliness after he divorced his wife. But one thing is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR: This is a mental illness, not a sexual preference. They aren't forming meaningful relationships. They are just getting off on how wrong it is. It is a FETISH.
Pedophiles rape little kids.
Zoophiles rape animals.
LGBT people have consensual sex and meaningful relationships (and by that I mean TRUE CONSENT, not something that tells them it's consent because they are screwed in the head).
My view is that the difference lies in whether TRUE consent is given, and not instilled into, or forced on to someone. No one can tell me a daughter really consents to sexual relations with her father. her father is sick and seduced her, telling her her whole life that is was "perfectly natural" for a parent to have sex with his child. It could be the other way around. The daughter could seduce the father in a moment of weakness or loneliness after he divorced his wife. But one thing is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR: This is a mental illness, not a sexual preference. They aren't forming meaningful relationships. They are just getting off on how wrong it is. It is a FETISH.
Pedophiles rape little kids.
Zoophiles rape animals.
LGBT people have consensual sex and meaningful relationships (and by that I mean TRUE CONSENT, not something that tells them it's consent because they are screwed in the head).
Mookie
Active Member
Now this is an answer. Couldnt I get it the first time
Hell you even deserve a big smiley face for that
Daryl Dixon
Absentee
I'm not making it unequal by hitting or throwing a girl to the ground for forcing two gays to do bad things that they don't want to. The fact that she's a girl in irrelevant, if two guys forced the two girls to do bad things and a girl came over and whooped their asses you wouldn't be saying "unequal rights, guys rights taken this girls bad blah blah"
I'm not taking her rights. Don't gimme your feminism XD
However I wouldn't actually hit a girl unless she was trying to take mine or someone else's life, but if she's assaulting someone else it's perfectly okay to restrain her and throw her to the ground.
Our genders don't matter in this situation.
I'm not taking her rights. Don't gimme your feminism XD
However I wouldn't actually hit a girl unless she was trying to take mine or someone else's life, but if she's assaulting someone else it's perfectly okay to restrain her and throw her to the ground.
Our genders don't matter in this situation.
Ponder
International Man of Mystery
I know I'm a bit late to the party, but I figured I'd throw my two cents in.
First off, I'll start by saying that I'm bisexual. I'm not closeted, nor am I struggling with my sexuality. I'm one-hundred percent openly bisexual. And, although I hesitate to reintroduce politics, I tend to vote more conservative than liberal.
That being said, hate is a multifaceted entity and, as I believe someone already stated, can stem from an individual regardless of sex, orientation, racial heritage or political affiliation. As an openly bisexual individual I've received hate from those who disapprove of my sexual preferences, but by far the most insulting and hurtful hate I've experienced was from members of the LGBTQ community.
I tend to express myself in way more akin to, for lack of a better term, the stereotypical heterosexual male (insofar as a stereotypical anything really exists). I'm not flamboyant. I have no interest in fashion, although I like a suit as much as the next guy. My interests include video games, math, astronomy and, to put it politely, actively pursuing sex. However, I do feel that my sexuality is a large part of my identity, and that I express it in a way suited to my personality and desires. Despite that, I've been accused by certain members of the LGBTQ community of--again, keeping things polite--repressing myself, my identity, my desires and, by extent, my happiness and my potential worth as an individual. While it's hard to hear hateful things from those who oppose your lifestyle, I feel it's much harder to have such a core part of your identity called into question by those who you'd expect to support and understand you.
The point being that hate, even on an issue like homosexuality, isn't relegated to a specific group.
Moving on, I think Mookie brings up an excellent point about bestiality (I'm choosing to avoid incest in this discussion for a variety of reasons which I'll not delve into). To be clear, he's not advocating bestiality, nor is he claiming bestiality is on the same level as homosexuality. Furthermore, he's not in any way claiming that the legalization of gay marriage will lead to the legalization of bestiality/pedophilia/incest.
The question "Why is bestiality wrong?" is a question geared specifically towards supporters of gay marriage. The intent is to bring forth and examine our immediate emotional response. When asked that question, many of us (myself included) immediately feel an emotional rush of disgust or repulsion. And while there are many rational arguments and counterarguments for and against bestiality, that feeling of disgust sticks with us.
These arguments/counterarguments can include (respectively):
Opposition to homosexuality doesn't often stem from repressed sexuality. Despite what many may claim, homosexual partners being unable to naturally produce children doesn't drive people into homophobia. Most of these arguments against homosexuality are simply attempts at rationalizing that perfectly legitimate feeling of immediate disgust. Does this make homophobia or opposition to equal rights for homosexuals okay? Certainly not. But it does make it understandable.
When looking at the question of bestiality, we're now put in a position where we, as supporters of equality, can understand the opposition. Bestiality and homosexuality are very different things, but those immediate feelings that arise are not. Rather than call those who oppose homosexuality bigots or ignoramuses and attempting to argue with the symptoms of those initial feelings, we are now in a position to use our understanding to help them overcome those feelings.
That, I believe, is the ultimate goal we should be working towards.
First off, I'll start by saying that I'm bisexual. I'm not closeted, nor am I struggling with my sexuality. I'm one-hundred percent openly bisexual. And, although I hesitate to reintroduce politics, I tend to vote more conservative than liberal.
That being said, hate is a multifaceted entity and, as I believe someone already stated, can stem from an individual regardless of sex, orientation, racial heritage or political affiliation. As an openly bisexual individual I've received hate from those who disapprove of my sexual preferences, but by far the most insulting and hurtful hate I've experienced was from members of the LGBTQ community.
I tend to express myself in way more akin to, for lack of a better term, the stereotypical heterosexual male (insofar as a stereotypical anything really exists). I'm not flamboyant. I have no interest in fashion, although I like a suit as much as the next guy. My interests include video games, math, astronomy and, to put it politely, actively pursuing sex. However, I do feel that my sexuality is a large part of my identity, and that I express it in a way suited to my personality and desires. Despite that, I've been accused by certain members of the LGBTQ community of--again, keeping things polite--repressing myself, my identity, my desires and, by extent, my happiness and my potential worth as an individual. While it's hard to hear hateful things from those who oppose your lifestyle, I feel it's much harder to have such a core part of your identity called into question by those who you'd expect to support and understand you.
The point being that hate, even on an issue like homosexuality, isn't relegated to a specific group.
Moving on, I think Mookie brings up an excellent point about bestiality (I'm choosing to avoid incest in this discussion for a variety of reasons which I'll not delve into). To be clear, he's not advocating bestiality, nor is he claiming bestiality is on the same level as homosexuality. Furthermore, he's not in any way claiming that the legalization of gay marriage will lead to the legalization of bestiality/pedophilia/incest.
The question "Why is bestiality wrong?" is a question geared specifically towards supporters of gay marriage. The intent is to bring forth and examine our immediate emotional response. When asked that question, many of us (myself included) immediately feel an emotional rush of disgust or repulsion. And while there are many rational arguments and counterarguments for and against bestiality, that feeling of disgust sticks with us.
These arguments/counterarguments can include (respectively):
- No children can be produced in interspecies sex/No children can be produced in homosexual sex
- Sex should always be consensual/What if the animal initiates?
- Mating between separate species is just wrong/How different would you feel about Mass Effect if Liara was a dog?
- Etc.
Opposition to homosexuality doesn't often stem from repressed sexuality. Despite what many may claim, homosexual partners being unable to naturally produce children doesn't drive people into homophobia. Most of these arguments against homosexuality are simply attempts at rationalizing that perfectly legitimate feeling of immediate disgust. Does this make homophobia or opposition to equal rights for homosexuals okay? Certainly not. But it does make it understandable.
When looking at the question of bestiality, we're now put in a position where we, as supporters of equality, can understand the opposition. Bestiality and homosexuality are very different things, but those immediate feelings that arise are not. Rather than call those who oppose homosexuality bigots or ignoramuses and attempting to argue with the symptoms of those initial feelings, we are now in a position to use our understanding to help them overcome those feelings.
That, I believe, is the ultimate goal we should be working towards.
Mookie
Active Member
Okay, you stand in the streets and someone hits you in the face with a belt.
What would you do if:
a) person is a male?
b) person is a female?
Medea
The Shadow Queen
It's hard to change one's religious beliefs. That is the main reason, imo, that people are so hard-set against same-sex marriage. Not the initial reaction to any sexual acts between same sex couples. Plenty of guys get off on lesbians doing each other, but because of their religious beliefs, they may not agree with them getting married.
This is one reason bestiality isn't mentioned much, if at all, in the Bible or other religious texts. Everyone already knows it's wrong. It goes without saying.
But when it comes to something like homosexuality, you have to somehow plant the idea that it is wrong in order for people to be disgusted by it. Enter Sodom.
Back when the Bible was written, Rome was the superpower of the world. One good way to attack the Roman empire was to attack their preferences on sexuality. It was no big secret that Romans were accepting of the gay lifestyle. But because they persecuted Christians, anything the roman empire did was considered sinful.
My main point is, the reason so many people are against same-sex marriage is because they think it's a sin, not because it turns them off. It's because of religion. Bottom line. Anal sex turns people off too, but their isn't a large percentage of the populace demanding that we make laws against it.
