Do you eat meat?

[FullmetalHeart20]

I know I can be a bit hard headed. I get a point of view, and things just make sense from there. I think, 'the facts are out there. Why doesn't everyone else see this the way I do?' I suppose that's opinions for you. May not think they're the best, but they're still valid.
As for Dr. Cowboy? Say what you will about me, but that was a dick move. I never said so many people agree with me. At least not here, it seems. And what it says about my reaction is that you understand my views on hunting enough to throw it in my face and piss me off. I can admit I was stubborn, but that was a bad response to a bad argument.

 

[Anouck]

Come at me bro. Sorry, you are trying to force your eating habits down any people's throats. So for everytime you make a post in this thread, I shall post a picture of glorious delicious meat. I could care less what you shove in your self righteous mouth, don't tell me what I can NOM on.

Are those... Spareribs? (0_0)
*packs suitcases* Prepare America! I'm on my way!

 

[Anouck]

Why would it be a problem? There are plenty of omnivores and carnivores that would feast if livestock was freed, and then the populations would stabilize.

Not completely true.
Here in the Netherlands we have a very big wildlife probem. Our forests are overcrowded with deers and bunnies. Our governemet actually hires foreign hunters to get rid of the overpopulation. Since I live close to the German border I meet a lot of the German hunters. They always tell me they never 'saw so much deers in their entire life'.

 

[kyleekay]

I know I can be a bit hard headed. I get a point of view, and things just make sense from there. I think, 'the facts are out there. Why doesn't everyone else see this the way I do?'

I thought you actually agreed with us at one point, at least for the most part. See your previous quote below:

It appears people misunderstand my position. I love meat. I was raised for nearly 21 years with it as part of my diet.

This is partially why I'm a tad irritated with you hating on us meat lovers. You said very early in the discussion that you love meat. That you've been eating it for basically your whole life. So why are you being so judgmental now?

I suppose that's opinions for you. May not think they're the best, but they're still valid.

^^^ That is the point I've been trying to make, dear. Opinions are opinions. No one should feel judged for what they write here.

 

[Anouck]

You're joking, right? Plenty of herbivores have teeth or tusks...something they can fight with. If they didn't, than they'd quickly be hunted to extinction. Our cainines aren't for ripping flesh and tearing arteries. They're for fighting. As for being made as omnivores? What exactly do you know about our physiology? Do you even know our stomach acids PH level?

At this point of the evolution our body isn't really good for anything. We don't have cainines or claws, which are the typical 'weapons' of a predator. But our body doesn't support the herbivore way of life either. We are too slow and our vision and hearing isn't good enough. But everything is balanced in nature: that's why evolution made us intelligent. In Holland we have a saying: 'wie niet sterk is, moet slim zijn'. It you're physically weak you have to be cleaver.

I think we can stop using the human body as an argument...

 

[Mighty Pecan Pie]

At this point of the evolution our body isn't really good for anything. We don't have cainines or claws, which are the typical 'weapons' of a predator. But our body doesn't support the herbivore way of life either. We are too slow and our vision and hearing isn't good enough. But everything is balanced in nature: that's why evolution made us intelligent. In Holland we have a saying: 'wie niet sterk is, moet slim zijn'. It you're physically weak you have to be cleaver.

I think we can stop using the human body as an argument...

That saying is true tho.

But we humans have "weapons" your hands are basicly weapons! granted, we don't have claws. but we have canines! they may be small, but we still have them. our mouth is the example of being a omnivor. the front teeth are carnivor teeth, while more at the back we have herbivor teeth.. We stopped using them as weapons, but we still have them.

 

[nordicowboy]

for r. Cowboy? Say what you will about me, but that was a dick move. I never said so many people agree with me. At least not here, it seems. And what it says about my reaction is that you understand my views on hunting enough to throw it in my face and piss me off. I can admit I was stubborn, but that was a bad response to a bad argument.

Funny, nobody here has talked down on YOUR decision not to eat meat, but you have not shown anyone else the same courtesy.Bashing everyone else's choices and refusing to acknowledge any valid points that don't favor your side of the topic has been the biggest "dick move" so far. My 1 post made you throw a temper tantrum, yet you've been going for 8 pages now.

 

[Benthos]

Not completely true.
Here in the Netherlands we have a very big wildlife probem. Our forests are overcrowded with deers and bunnies. Our governemet actually hires foreign hunters to get rid of the overpopulation. Since I live close to the German border I meet a lot of the German hunters. They always tell me they never 'saw so much deers in their entire life'.

We also have a deer, rabbit, and other herbivore problem in our woods, this is why we have hunting seasons so it helps regulate the population. Without predators (carnivores/omnivores alike), the prey over populates and then the entire population gets to suffer due to lacking resources to survive on. I've seen documentaries where Orcas/Killer Whales would kill dolphins, seals, penguins, or even whales and sharks, and the folk there are flipping out because they can't stand watching predators take out other animals. What really bothers me is when they attack the predator in order to save the prey. The predator is always the bad guy in some folks' eyes.

4) So is the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle.

I realize that you are fighting for this for a very good reason. I believe in animal rights too. I don't like how they are treated, and raised in captivity for slaughter either. There are free-range farms where the animals are taken care of and I support those types of farms and the organic markets that sell that type of food. But I have to admit I buy my meat from Shop 'N Save, because it's cheaper and I don't have an organic store where I live. Do I feel guilty about it? Sometimes. But I just don't see myself changing my diet because of it.

Ranches are free range, they make sure the animals get their exercise and stay in shape so that their meat is more delicious and ready for my gullet.
4) YES! That is VERY expensive life style, I went to a veggie burger place, the burgers were 3x the price of a whopper, my usual meal of burgers, fries, and a drink (pretty standard) was around 25-30 bucks when even at sit down restaurants like Red Robin, Texas Roadhouse, etc. with the same meal or perhaps a steak with fries instead of a burger wouldn't even hit 20 bucks. It's ridiculous.

I never said that. No matter what I think about the practice of eating meat, it doesn't define someone's morals. It's just the society one was raised in. I'd also like to point out that there are few who are acknowledging the valid points of not eating meat. Instead it's come to posting pictures of burgers and describing killing and cooking a bird in detail. Is there a point to that besides pissing me off?

It's how we eat our prey these days, we used to eat them raw way back then until we discovered fire was so awesome when used on food that we stuck to it. A great source for warmth, light, and a great disease-ridding way to prepare our food. When things are undercooked, what happens, salmonella, food poisoning, not only because of our weakened immune system from way back when but because that's what is normally within that stuff. I agree 100% on the society bit, when I first read it I didn't agree but giving it some thought I know exactly what you're implying, with whoever raises us as well what is normally acceptable will be what we find acceptable growing up as well and pass it on. That's how social animals live and behave, not just humans but every kind, they grow up observing to what is subjected to them and they normally correspond and adapt with it, passing on the successful bits to the next generation. A means of survival. If my family grew up chomping down caramel scorpions, you will find it gross but I wouldn't, I would most likely enjoy them as well unless my appetite changes.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

I'm going to take a hint and stop being so judgmental. Now I have a few thungs to say about the last few posts.
Why do people talk about the good old days when people were animal hunting predators as if there was recorded history? No one really knows what went on there besides the fact that we harnessed fire and made some basic tools.
I would like to point out that there are charts comparing the traits of omnivores, carnivores, herbivores and humans. Some may think it's misinformed or biased, but I believe it's worth looking at before jumping to conclusions. We may have canines, but we have quite the set of molars.
It seems a meatless diet isn't very mainstream. Could it be that the demand for veggie burgers and the like simply drives the prices up?
We are the only species that cooks and disinfects our meat, aren't we? Even campers bother with a fire most of the time.
I'm sorry about how I've acted. I just thought there'd be at least a few here who might agree.

 

[Anouck]

I'm sorry about how I've acted. I just thought there'd be at least a few here who might agree.

I bet there are people here who agree with you. But it's the way you 'attack' every other opinion that scares them off. There is never a clear answer or conclusion in a discussion like this one. There is no 'yes' or 'no' or 'right' or 'wrong'. Still I have the feeling that's what we are looking for in this thread: to determine whose opinion is correct.
Maybe if we stop that more people will agree with you. Just allow everyone to think whatever he/she thinks and accept the many different thougts people have.

 

[Benthos]

I don't know how we went from widely known and accepted prehistorical discoveries of man to blatantly ignoring them and arguing that we were herbivores. The classic stereotype of cavemen were and still are: brute with club, fur clothing, sitting in a cave and around a fire. Which has slightly been modified from just simple brutes to family tribes and instead of strictly in a cave, we're in various environments. We learned this in Elementary school or at the very latest in Middle/Junior high.
Did we eat meat prior to fire? Yes, our earliest ancestors did.

We still do eat raw meat: sashimi and sushi, herring, and many other fish products all over the world, beef carpaccio and beef tartare, and so forth. But now we have the choice or raw or cooked.
http://www.naturalnews.com/037526_prehistoric_skulls_meat_consumption_human_diet.html
http://www.h-ed.com.au/think/16-vegetarianism/27-history-of-meat-eating.html
http://library.thinkquest.org/C005446/Food/English/prehistoric.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/prehistoric_life/human/human_evolution/food_for_thought1.shtml

I'm going to take a hint and stop being so judgmental. Now I have a few thungs to say about the last few posts.
Why do people talk about the good old days when people were animal hunting predators as if there was recorded history? No one really knows what went on there besides the fact that we harnessed fire and made some basic tools.
I would like to point out that there are charts comparing the traits of omnivores, carnivores, herbivores and humans. Some may think it's misinformed or biased, but I believe it's worth looking at before jumping to conclusions. We may have canines, but we have quite the set of molars.
It seems a meatless diet isn't very mainstream. Could it be that the demand for veggie burgers and the like simply drives the prices up?
We are the only species that cooks and disinfects our meat, aren't we? Even campers bother with a fire most of the time.
I'm sorry about how I've acted. I just thought there'd be at least a few here who might agree.

Archeologists, Paleo-Anthropologists, and Paleontologists would argue with that first statement.
Molars are for grinding and crushing but that's just added for our omnivorous diet so that we can crush vegetation for digestion. That doesn't mean we would be herbivores but that we CAN digest vegetation properly. That is the exact reason why I brought up incisors and canines in my first post, molars are just in the back of the jaw for crunching and grinding. They are also used to grind already chomped and torn meat as well since the molars are designed for rough vegetation as well as soft and meat can be broken down to similar structure as well. Even our ancestors' relatives - chimps and other primates are omnivores. An omnivore eats both animal and plant foods. This can include eggs, insects, fish or meat but unlike carnivores, they also eat plant foods. This is what makes an omnivore. Bears have molars as well, we can't go around pointing fingers and saying they're herbivores.
From wikipedia:
Though it belongs to the order Carnivora, the panda's diet is 99% bamboo. Pandas in the wild will occasionally eat other grasses, wild tubers, or even meat in the form of birds, rodents or carrion. In captivity, they may receive honey, eggs, fish, yams, shrub leaves, oranges, or bananas along with specially prepared food.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

No one's throwing anything out the widow. People never just figure everything out all at once and leave it. A popular theory is that we lived on plants and legumes, with the occasional treat of meat or insects. There's even evidence to back it up. It probably isn't worth writing it all here, but suffice to say, it depends on a thorough analysis of our guts, and comparison of similar relatives.
As for examples of primates eating meat, I'd like to point out how rare this is. About 1 or 2 percent. It could even be argued that these figures are applicable to the individuals, not the species.

 

[Benthos]

No one's throwing anything out the widow. People never just figure everything out all at once and leave it. A popular theory is that we lived on plants and legumes, with the occasional treat of meat or insects. There's even evidence to back it up. It probably isn't worth writing it all here, but suffice to say, it depends on a thorough analysis of our guts, and comparison of similar relatives.
As for examples of primates eating meat, I'd like to point out how rare this is. About 1 or 2 percent. It could even be argued that these figures are applicable to the individuals, not the species.

If you're not willing to write more about it at least post relevant and reputable references.

 

[Medea]

This thread is going nowhere fast with all the insults, assumptions and accusations. I have plenty of respect for people who decide to be vegans/vegetarians. They disagree with the way many farm animals are treated before they are sent to slaughter, and one has to respect the fact that they are actually trying to do something themselves, to stop what they see as wrong. Too many people accept the fact that farm animals are mistreated. I agree with Fullmetalheart in that regard.

I just think that unless most of the population woke up tomorrow and decided that they wanted to live that way, it won't lead to a societal change. We depend on our farm industry too much now. We couldn't provide enough food to everyone if we suddenly decided to go vegetarian.

I think that if everyone bought food that they knew came from a ranch where they actually took care of the animals before sending them to be killed for their meat (and used whatever else they could from the body in order to not be wasteful), it would be enough.


But in regard to whether or not we should eat meat or not.....it should ALWAYS be an individual's choice. You don't want to eat meat? Fine. You like your steak rare? Also, fine. We shouldn't force our views on others, only make valid arguments for our causes. If the arguments are persuasive enough, they might actually get someone to change their mind. I have to admit that this thread made me think about the meat I'm consuming, and that I should be more aware of where it comes from.

 

[Dagmar]

I rarely ever eat meat and I never eat meat that comes from a concentrated animal feeding operation (CAFO) which is where well over 90% of the meat in the United States originates. Supporting the CAFO industry is bad on multiple levels.

If you want to educate yourself more about the problems caused by the CAFO industry I recommend you read the books The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Polan and Eating Animals by Jonathan Safran Foer. It's not the entire focus of either book and both are good reads as well. They aren't particularly preachy but they will inform you on the realities of where the meat you consume comes from and at what cost. If you read them hopefully they'll open you up to thinking about your decisions about whether, where, and how often you purchase the meat that you consume.

 

[Panthera]

*clicking unwatched thread*

 

[Brizzle Kicks]

Yeah I eat meat always have always will if people didn't want us eating it why did they make it taste so good.

I buy all my meat from a farm shop 2 minutes down the road they butcher all their own animals on the premises. If you want you can walk round the farm and see all the cows, sheep, pigs, ducks, chickens etc... they are very open about it all. Which is fine by me yes it's more expensive than a supermarket but at least I know where my food is coming from and I know it's good quality meat.

 

[sticky runes]

Also, when people become zombies, they crave flesh, so that means we're not meant to be herbivores. Otherwise, zombies would just end up eating leaves off trees.

 

[Hargood]

So here's some Question's from a Non-Vegatarian:

If you don't eat, like, or want meat what-so-ever..... then What is the point of a Vegi-Burger?

Isn't that just like someone eating a Broccoli sprout made and sculpted out of bacon?

 

[Brizzle Kicks]

So here's some Question's from a Non-Vegatarian:

If you don't eat, like, or want meat what-so-ever..... then What is the point of a Vegi-Burger?

Isn't that just like someone eating a Broccoli sprout made and sculpted out of bacon?

I knew someone years ago who was a veggie she said whenever she could smell bacon being cooked it nearly made her give into tempation more than once she loved the smell but couldn't do it. Another person I still see from time to time was in Peru a few years ago his choice for food for 3 days was nothing or steak by the end of day 2 he gave up and ate half of one and puked his ring up for a good half hour afterwards he had never eaten meat in his life before and his body rejected it.