did you pirate skyrim?

[moley25]

i dont do pirate games,they lessen the lifespan of you're console.

 

[Dagmar]

What you possibly don't understand and respect is that the law is wrong....

I understand your opinion, which is all it really is regardless of your couching it as something objectively true. I also clearly stated that what Static misrepresented as the actual law might be meaningful in a dialogue regarding your position. My point was that he was wrong about pretty much everything he was stating about actual intellectual property laws.

The only reasonable application of criminal law to unauthorized duplication of code would be to prevent people from actually profiting from code they did not write.

In that proposed scenario people wouldn't have the right to have control over what they create. If people can't license out their IP or sell their skills to someone with the resources to develop it further so that both parties and society as a whole can't benefit from it, they're being denied their personal liberty not only to do with their property as they wish, but their very right to work as well.

Further if people can't expect society to protect them from those that would simply take what they create, what incentive do they have to create and innovate things? Society's ability to develop and innovate technology at the pace it does is dependent on the ability for people to create these relationships. Maybe you'd prefer to live in the Big Brother Luddite society that would have resulted if that's the way the law actually worked, but I doubt the majority would feel the same way, especially those that pirate IP since they wouldn't have even had the means to do so or the product to pirate.

If anyone actually believes in a system like that then they should throw out their computer, their gaming console, their television and just about every other modern appliance in their possession, because none of it would exist in a world like that and that's the kind of world they'd be advocating.

 

[Baldr]

An amazing game like Skyrim deserves to be purchased, I have pirated in the past but bought the stuff the deserves to be bought.


It's not how we fall which defines us but how we rise after falling

 

[mellojoe]

It's not theft. You're taking a copy of the game, not taking the original.
((snip))
All prices are going up, but not everyone's wages. People are helping the economy by pirating moderately.

That's the worst excuse for pirating that I've read on here.

You don't have enough money, but you want something, so you just steal it. And by stealing it you are bringing down prices for everyone else?

And it is STILL stealing! That copy you made ... you got it for nothing. If you wanted it legally you would have had to pay for it. You obtained a copy without paying for it.

 

[BSE]

First, its stealing. No matter what you (arbitrary "you") say to convince yourself otherwise, its stealing and its illegal. Theres really no gray area in that sense. Its the exact same as stealing the physical copy of it in the store, except that its easier to get away with it.

And now, Im gonna make a really stupid argument. Lets say we took this new 3D printer technology to the next level, walked into a store and "scanned" a Coach purse (first thing that came to mind). You then "printed" an exact replica, so much so that even the maker of the purse would think its real. So, now you have a purse that is worth God knows how much and prevented Coach a sale of said purse. So, is that stealing, or is it ok because you didnt actually steal it, you just made a copy using modern technology?

 

[Elgrif]

Nope, I support Bethesda in making good games.

 

[MushroomGenius]

Skyrim on Sale for those of you that chose to plunder and pilfer:

http://www.bethblog.com/2012/03/06/skyrim-savings/

 

[skyrimaddict1323]

OK, so you go spend the time and effort to code over a billion lines of code to create a game that you think people will like, then put it on the internet (for sale) where any Joe Schmoo can download it and not pay for it. Now, you have spent several years, and numerous amounts of money to do this (I am sure you don't work for free), but wait, it's ok if someone pirates your intellectual content, after all you did it for everyone right?
Who cares that you put your hard work, sweat, and total budget into creating this, it should be free.....

but I guess when you sit at home in your mommy and daddy's basement living off their dime it really doesn't matter does it, after all, it doesn't hurt anyone's livelihood does it?

If I make something, put it up for sale (regardless of whether it is digital or physical) and you STEAL it to use without paying for it, you are taking money out of MY pocket, and homey don't play that.

And who do you think the stock holders are? Only people in suits and ties sitting in some office somewhere? NOT, the majority of stock holders are your average joe, working a full time job(or retired) who put their hard earned money in the market, hoping to make a little money to retire (or live on if already retired), mainly people like your parents, and grandparents who are trying to make their lives (and yours) better in the long run, but that's ok, you don't mind stealing from them right?

You make good points, but this statement just makes you look like an asshole.

That said, everyone who is pro pirating makes good points.

i bought the game for 360, and im going to buy the game for PC when i get mine, but with as low as the percentage of people that pirate is, its like taking a couple $100 dollar bills from bill gates.

To the people that want to pirate the game, i say go ahead. To the people that buy all their games, dont worry about the people that pirate, they arent hurting you

 

[skyrimaddict1323]

You make a product. You sell that product to the public. If someone takes your product without paying for it, that is stealing, an ancient and well-known crime. There are no shades of gray in this matter. Theft is what it is, no matter how convenient it is to do.

It's not that black and white when it comes to piracy. When you pirate something, you copy the data from a server to your storage device, thus making 2 individual copies of the data, the original owner does not lose anything.

However, when you steal an apple, now you have an apple and the original owner of that apple does not. You cant copy apples, now matter how hard you might try...

 

[skyrimaddict1323]

First, its stealing. No matter what you (arbitrary "you") say to convince yourself otherwise, its stealing and its illegal. Theres really no gray area in that sense. Its the exact same as stealing the physical copy of it in the store, except that its easier to get away with it.

And now, Im gonna make a really stupid argument. Lets say we took this new 3D printer technology to the next level, walked into a store and "scanned" a Coach purse (first thing that came to mind). You then "printed" an exact replica, so much so that even the maker of the purse would think its real. So, now you have a purse that is worth God knows how much and prevented Coach a sale of said purse. So, is that stealing, or is it ok because you didnt actually steal it, you just made a copy using modern technology?

If you are trying to argue AGIANST piracy, then you are right about that being a stupid argument.

By doing this, you wouldnt be "preventing" Coach from selling a purse. The store could still sell that purse just the same. All you're doing is finding a way to get a purse of the same quality for yourself without forfeiting any of your hard earned money. And to that, i say congratulations.

 

[plopster]

Note: this post is not true

I pirated it for xbox, purchased it for pc.

 

[Dagmar]

To the people that buy all their games, dont worry about the people that pirate, they arent hurting you

Yes they are. Businesses pass on the cost of product loss from piracy to the law abiding consumers. They also pass on the cost of market loss by laying off workers.

It's not that black and white when it comes to piracy. When you pirate something, you copy the data from a server to your storage device, thus making 2 individual copies of the data, the original owner does not lose anything...

These are meaningless semantics. When you pirate something you're doing something illegal. You're taking something which you're not legally entitled to. You have no right to use it. You were supposed to pay for it just like you were supposed to pay for the apple. What makes arguments to the contrary all the more petty is that stealing an apple if you are starving and have no means to procure the money to buy it is far more understandable and justifiable than the purely selfish motivations of pirating a luxury item such as a PC game. No one ever died from being denied the ability to play COD. Plenty of people die every day from lack of food, water and shelter.

The owner does lose something, he loses the money that people would have otherwise paid for a legal copy if they had not pirated, and all the talk about people who pirate not buying it if there was not an illegal free option simply is not supported by empirical data. Even if an owner suffers no monetary damages the concept that taking something that doesn't belong to you is wrong is something most of us learned as adolescents.

 

[SuperAxilla]

Too much to lose by pirating. I have a few friends who work for software companies here and abroad. To me, pirating would riddle me with guilt as though I were stealing from them.

 

[skyrimaddict1323]

Yes they are. Businesses pass on the cost of product loss from piracy to the law abiding consumers. They also pass on the cost of market loss by laying off workers.

These are meaningless semantics. When you pirate something you're doing something illegal. You're taking something which you're not legally entitled to. You have no right to use it. You were supposed to pay for it just like you were supposed to pay for the apple. What makes arguments to the contrary all the more petty is that stealing an apple if you are starving and have no means to procure the money to buy it is far more understandable and justifiable than the purely selfish motivations of pirating a luxury item such as a PC game. No one ever died from being denied the ability to play COD. Plenty of people die every day from lack of food, water and shelter.

The owner does lose something, he loses the money that people would have otherwise paid for a legal copy if they had not pirated, and all the talk about people who pirate not buying it if there was not an illegal free option simply is not supported by empirical data. Even if an owner suffers no monetary damages the concept that taking something that doesn't belong to you is wrong is something most of us learned as adolescents.[/quote]

1.Almost everyone does things that are illegal, most people, including myself, break the law several times a day. It's not a big deal

2.NOTHING in this thread has been supported by data.

3."with as low as the percentage of people that pirate is, its like taking a couple $100 dollar bills from bill gates." No mention of this eh?

 

[Straumgald]

I find it quite funny people are openly admitting stealing it, and even defending their actions.

Stealing intellectual property is still stealing people. As has been said, if you pirate Skyrim, you are taking that $60 that would have been spent. Not only does Bethesda not make as much money, think of all the companies down the line that get that product to your console or PC. Truckers that make the deliveries, GameStop or where ever you buy the product, all the way down to the companies that make the blank discs and cases.
If you think Pirating doesn't have any effect on a company, look at Rosetta Stone the language software. At $400 for a complete language, they can barely keep afloat due to heavy pirating. It is one of their #1 concerns. As an investor its the #1 thing that kept me from purchasing their stock also.

 

[Dagmar]

(I don't know how to use the quote function)

Most people don't commit crimes several times a day. Don't get me wrong. In the big scheme of things it's not as if someone is akin to being a serial baby killer, rapist or bank robber if they pirate product, but it's also not as if they're just going 10-20 mph over the speed limit on a highway either. It may seem that way in your mind but that doesn't make it so, and the way the law views it clearly puts it in a different category than a non-criminal infraction like speeding or spitting on a sidewalk. Unless your talking about minor stuff like that, I would say you live in a very different world than most people because most people don't violate criminal statutes 2-3 times a day.

The fact that losses to piracy reflect losses in sales and the costs are passed on to consumers and the labor market are supported by data.

I didn't mention your last statement because it's meaningless, irrelevant and an incredibly weak analogy. If you can't extrapolate why from everything that's been posted throughout this thread that's your own issue.

 

[skyrimaddict1323]

Most people don't commit crimes several times a day. Don't get me wrong. In the big scheme of things it's not as if someone is akin to being a serial baby killer, rapist or bank robber if they pirate product, but it's also not as if they're just going 10-20 mph over the speed limit on a highway either. It may seem that way in your mind but that doesn't make it so, and the way the law views it clearly puts it in a different category than a non-criminal infraction like speeding or spitting on a sidewalk. Unless your talking about minor stuff like that, I would say you live in a very different world than most people because most people don't violate criminal statutes 2-3 times a day.

The fact that losses to piracy reflect losses in sales and the costs are passed on to consumers and the labor market are supported by data.

I didn't mention your last statement because it's meaningless, irrelevant and an incredibly weak analogy. If you can't extrapolate why from everything that's been posted throughout this thread that's your own issue.

Perhaps you live in a very different world where everyone is naive to the world around them, but in some places, VERY high percentages of people commit FELONIES more than 2-3 times a day just so they can survive.

But that's irrelevant.

I did not pirate my 360 copy, and i'm not going to pirate my PC copy. I am simply trying to make two points.

1: I don't know the exact numbers, put i'm POSITIVE that the... probably 5% of people playing skyrim that pirated are not going to put Beth out of business.

2: It is entirely impossible to Steal something that does not physically exist. Games are made up of codes written on a computer screen. These codes are displayed on the computer screen via pixels. I don't know if you've ever tried to pick up some pixels and put them in your pocket, but you can't.

 

[MrSparkle]

Yes they are. Businesses pass on the cost of product loss from piracy to the law abiding consumers. They also pass on the cost of market loss by laying off workers.

These are meaningless semantics. When you pirate something you're doing something illegal. You're taking something which you're not legally entitled to. You have no right to use it. You were supposed to pay for it just like you were supposed to pay for the apple. What makes arguments to the contrary all the more petty is that stealing an apple if you are starving and have no means to procure the money to buy it is far more understandable and justifiable than the purely selfish motivations of pirating a luxury item such as a PC game. No one ever died from being denied the ability to play COD. Plenty of people die every day from lack of food, water and shelter.

The owner does lose something, he loses the money that people would have otherwise paid for a legal copy if they had not pirated, and all the talk about people who pirate not buying it if there was not an illegal free option simply is not supported by empirical data. Even if an owner suffers no monetary damages the concept that taking something that doesn't belong to you is wrong is something most of us learned as adolescents.

While I am unsure if you are playing devils advocate or not, your reasoning seems absurdly one sided. You argue against piracy and for the big publishers, but who is looking out for the consumer? Has anyone noticed the trend of $60 PC games lately? Why, in the past, was the norm $60 console games and $50 PC games? The licensing cost afforded to console manufactures averages around $10 and thus the games for consoles cost more. Now it's my (and many others) hypothesis that the publishers, trying to squeeze every last penny out of their consumers, thought it would be a good idea to raise the price of PC games to the level of their console counterparts, even though there is no licensing fee for PC's. Now if you want to argue that production costs are higher with these truly amazing and realistic games nowadays, fine, but then why arn't the console games $70? The simple fact of it all is that PC gamers are being had, and the publishers are simply taking advantage of us to increase their profit margin. While I admit, I have been guilty of pirating a game or two in my time, I do not make a habit of it, nor do I advocate it, but I do understand how more and more people are being driven torwards it. The PC consumer gets used and abused with higher costs and oppressive DRM (see anything Ubisoft) and while there has been an increase in piracy, the publishers are partly to blame for that very increase with their greedy business practices.

 

[Panthera]

I just slit a guys neck because it was a pain to do favor for him to let me pass inside of the targets house so I can steal certain item in Skyrim... The same way I click download coldblooded on Skyrim file. Elder scrolls? ...bad influence I say!

Before I played Morrowind I was buying games... now, I'm downloading it for free.

I will say 2 things... This examples it's not valid:

Yes it does, it steals intellectual property. Just because it's not a physical object does not make it any less than theft. If you come up with an amazing idea for an invention, one that could earn you millions, and I overhear this and copyright it first, I have stolen your idea, your potential income and indeed your reputation for coming up with that idea in the first place. But hey, that's okay right because, i'm not 'stealing' your idea, I'm just 'copying' it right? Please stop trying to justify theft, you obviously are a pirate and therefor a thief. You seem to have no problem with that, ok, just stop trying to justify it. You aren't stealing to live, you are stealing to play a computer game. I think that's pretty sad.

True that is stealing, but it's a different thing. When I downloaded Skyrim, installed and when I started at beginning it says Betsheda Softworks.

Which means it's registered trademark and I can't claim that's my work so I don't have any rights to sell it as my own. In case I would download the game and make many copies of it and than sell it that would be much closer to your example. So selling the game you don't own and download the game it's a big difference.

Another thing, true I downloaded the game but I do say a good word about it... in other words I'm like advertising the game!

 

[Dagmar]

...But that's irrelevant.

And yet you felt the need to mention it.

....i'm POSITIVE that the... probably 5% of people playing skyrim that pirated are not going to put Beth out of business.....

1. You continue to ignore the fact that it's not about putting a company out of business. Piracy hurts people. It hurts the businesses and they pass the hurt on to their consumers and their employees. It's not the victimless crime that people who pirate pretend it to be.
2. Piracy may not put Bethesda out of business, but it can put smaller companies out of business.

It is entirely impossible to Steal something that does not physically exist.

This irrelevant and morally and intellectually barren argument was already addressed and dismissed in several other posts. If you can't grasp the concept that using something that doesn't belong to you is wrong then repeating it again is pointless.