Spoiler Daedric Princes and the afterlife

[Sparky04]

I'm pretty new to TES, so I apologize if this is a stupid question. I know there are things in game that promise your character's soul for a Daedric prince in the afterlife. However what if your character's soul is promised to multiple Daedric princes, what do they do, fight over it? I was thinking about this because my Khajiit is a werewolf, so her soul is promised to Hiricine, but I'm thinking about having her join the thief's guild and I know at the end of the Thief guild questline, you become a nightingale. Also the Nords go to Sovngarde, where do Khajiits go if they are good?

 

[BigBad]

This is an old favorite topic for Elder Scrolls fans. The short answer is: nobody knows, and most people either poke fun at it (imagining the ensuing conversation between confused and irritating gods) or use a personal rationalization for their headcanon.

 

[Gigapact]

Yeah, no one really knows. It is one of life's biggest mysteries, and it's not a stupid question

Personally, and I don't know if this makes sense to you, but it does to me, I think parts of your souls will go to different areas of Oblivion with those specific Daedric Princes that you pledged to. I mean I guess they could all battle it out... (definitely Molag Bal and Boethiah with all that hatred), but to me, the splitting of the soul made more sense because:

In various parts of the games you do a few quests where you are 'partially soul trapped', meaning they take a part of your soul. So obviously your soul can be split. But really this is all just speculation, you have no idea what's gonna happen. Although, I think this is just a game thing that Bethesda didn't really think about. Because if you notice all of the other characters in the game, they are typically devoted to one Daedric Prince, like Boethiah's followers, the Nightingales, etc.

Also, since the Daedric Princes know many things, I would think they would know if you pledged your soul to another Daedric Prince, and be pissed and kill you (or at least that's what I would do if I was a Daedric Prince). Especially since I committed to BOTH Molag Bal and Boethiah. I'm surprised I was not struck down by Mr. Bal himself.

 

[Lucid]

I was sired by Akatosh, and he lays claim to my immortal soul. My promises to Daedric Princes are empty and made with a wink and a smirk.

 

[Gigapact]

To Lucid: (reply button not working)

Make sure to cross your fingers behind your back too. Those damned Daedric Princes will never notice. Hehe.

 

[BigBad]

It's not entirely clear that Akatosh claims souls at all. Presumably, souls without a specific claim go to an realm of Aetherius like the Nord-specific Sovngarde, but no other planes are known or elaborated upon. Souls that are soul-trapped go to the Soul Cairn. Daedric Princes with a claim on a given soul can intercede and send the soul to their plane of Oblivion, as Hircine does to lycanthropes.

This may mean that a Daedric Prince's personal claim takes precedence over Akatosh's general claim to souls as the head of the Nine Divines pantheon. But how the Daedra resolve competing claims to a given soul is completely unknown. Except in the case of defecting worshippers, where the new patron takes precedence and can protect the worshipper from the old patron, though he is still vulnerable to mortal agents of the old patron.

 

[Sweetroll Thief]

It's not entirely clear that Akatosh claims souls at all. Presumably, souls without a specific claim go to an realm of Aetherius like the Nord-specific Sovngarde, but no other planes are known or elaborated upon. Souls that are soul-trapped go to the Soul Cairn. Daedric Princes with a claim on a given soul can intercede and send the soul to their plane of Oblivion, as Hircine does to lycanthropes.

This may mean that a Daedric Prince's personal claim takes precedence over Akatosh's general claim to souls as the head of the Nine Divines pantheon. But how the Daedra resolve competing claims to a given soul is completely unknown. Except in the case of defecting worshippers, where the new patron takes precedence and can protect the worshipper from the old patron, though he is still vulnerable to mortal agents of the old patron.

It's funny, I assumed the exact opposite, that the *first* patron takes precedence, not the last. Oaths tend to have quite a bit of meaning, as they did for RL Nords, so I've played on the assumption that the first oath taken is binding unless something is done to break that oath and atone for its breaking with the one with whom it was made. So Hermaeus Mora can think my Nightingale will be his champion from now until the sun burns out, but she took oath with Nocturnal and it is to Nocturnal that she will go.

 

[BigBad]

If switching patrons couldn't protect you from your pissed-off former patron and instead leave you, after death, potentially trapped forever at the mercy of the capricious god you boldly rejected, there'd be a lot less defectors among Daedra worshippers. And probably a lot less Daedra worshippers period, since the Daedra are basically all irredeemable asshats.

 

[Sweetroll Thief]

If switching patrons couldn't protect you from your pissed-off former patron and instead leave you, after death, potentially trapped forever at the mercy of the capricious god you boldly rejected, there'd be a lot less defectors among Daedra worshippers. And probably a lot less Daedra worshippers period, since the Daedra are basically all irredeemable asshats.

Well, there definitely seem to be Daedra for whom "oathbreaker" is a selling point. Although I'd think in that case your new patron is the one stuck with any fallout from your broken oath, so if you're going to betray one to serve another, you'd better have something pretty good to offer. That said, there are some for whom "chronic backstabbing disorder" might also be an enticement, but I don't get the sense that it's all of them. I also felt, as I was playing, distinctly differently about my werewolf going to Hircine because she was cursed to and my Nightingale going to Nocturnal because she took oath to. They're both choices since you don't *have* to join the Circle and take the beast blood, but it didn't feel so much like she was pledging herself to Hircine. I also didn't say yes to Mora, I just imagine that any assumptions he's making about her belonging to him is nulled because she's already packaged and labeled for someone else.

I'd love to hear thoughts on this from a character perspective-- for those of you with characters who have competing claims by Daedra, did one feel more binding than another? Did playing through Sovngarde feel different with a character who was already claimed by a Daedra?

 

[BigBad]

My main character was an Orc, who as a race are nominally under the patronage of Malacath. Since he was raised as an Imperial citizen in Cyrodiil and not in a tiny wilderness stronghold, however, he doesn't feel any connection to Malacath and doesn't care to enter his service. As a member of the Companions' Circle, he became a werewolf and chose not to cure himself, but feels no loyalty to Hircine and in fact did not cooperate with Hircine during that Daedra's quest. He carries Dawnbreaker, because it's just a good sword to use when most of your opponents are draugr or vampires, but told Meridia to her face (sort of) that he wasn't gonna be spreading her gospel or anything. He's promised a place in Sovngarde after going there to kill Alduin, but Hircine and Malacath still have the strongest claims on him and he'll probably end up in the Hunting Grounds when he dies.

 

[Lord of Blood]

I love this topic of where the Dragonborn's soul could potentially end up after death. My Nord is a werewolf who wants nothing more than to spend his afterlife in Hircine's hunting grounds with his beloved wife Aela.

 

[AnjaRoslyakova]

I'm pretty new to TES, so I apologize if this is a stupid question. I know there are things in game that promise your character's soul for a Daedric prince in the afterlife. However what if your character's soul is promised to multiple Daedric princes, what do they do, fight over it? I was thinking about this because my Khajiit is a werewolf, so her soul is promised to Hiricine, but I'm thinking about having her join the thief's guild and I know at the end of the Thief guild questline, you become a nightingale. Also the Nords go to Sovngarde, where do Khajiits go if they are good?

I like to think that mine will go to Sovngarde. The rest can fight over her all they want, she's headed for the Hall of Valor/Shor's Hall.

Also, if you've done the Companions quest, Kodlak talks about a battle in the afterlife to free the other Harbinger's from Hircine. That's what I think would happen (with my Nord, at least) and she'd have all the great warriors there helping her, like Hakon, Ulfric (who should be dead by then since he's way older than her), Kodlak, etc.

Seems like it'd be a pretty epic battle to me.

Wicka waaah!!

 

[Sparky04]

Yeah, no one really knows. It is one of life's biggest mysteries, and it's not a stupid question

Personally, and I don't know if this makes sense to you, but it does to me, I think parts of your souls will go to different areas of Oblivion with those specific Daedric Princes that you pledged to. I mean I guess they could all battle it out... (definitely Molag Bal and Boethiah with all that hatred), but to me, the splitting of the soul made more sense because:

In various parts of the games you do a few quests where you are 'partially soul trapped', meaning they take a part of your soul. So obviously your soul can be split. But really this is all just speculation, you have no idea what's gonna happen. Although, I think this is just a game thing that Bethesda didn't really think about. Because if you notice all of the other characters in the game, they are typically devoted to one Daedric Prince, like Boethiah's followers, the Nightingales, etc.

Also, since the Daedric Princes know many things, I would think they would know if you pledged your soul to another Daedric Prince, and be pissed and kill you (or at least that's what I would do if I was a Daedricg
Prince). Especially since I committed to BOTH Molag Bal and Boethiah. I'm surprised I was not struck down by Mr. Bal himself.

I find the idea of the soul split very interesting. Especially since I just recently completed the main quest and it got me thinking. The Nords of Sovngarde talked of preparing for the final battle, which could simply just be what they believe. But what if when the world does end, the souls of famous warriors join the fight. One big battle involving both the living and the dead. And what if your soul was split but when the end came, it'd come back together. The different pieces bringing different knowledge and experience from the afterlife (some worst then others obviously). And the Dragonborn's reconstructed soul was part of the final battle for Nirn?

 

[Hildolfr]

One of the rarely seen ideas I see suggested when discussing this topic is whether or not the Dragonborn has a say in where he/she ends up. I mean, I think your average person has to really be concerned because they're not strong enough to tackle a Daedric Prince. I feel like the Dragonborn, by the time their life ends, will be exceedingly powerful. I would imagine my character will decide where he ends up. At the same time, there are certain rules. Like, I don't think Sovngarde will accept a werewolf. In fact, as a werewolf, Hircine may be the only one that is willing to take you.

But yeah, I say that the Dragonborn is powerful enough that he gets to choose, for the most part.

 

[Gigapact]

One of the rarely seen ideas I see suggested when discussing this topic is whether or not the Dragonborn has a say in where he/she ends up. I mean, I think your average person has to really be concerned because they're not strong enough to tackle a Daedric Prince. I feel like the Dragonborn, by the time their life ends, will be exceedingly powerful. I would imagine my character will decide where he ends up. At the same time, there are certain rules. Like, I don't think Sovngarde will accept a werewolf. In fact, as a werewolf, Hircine may be the only one that is willing to take you.

But yeah, I say that the Dragonborn is powerful enough that he gets to choose, for the most part.

I definitely see what you're saying. But in relation to the Daedric Princes, I don't think it will be that easy. I just can't see the dragonborn shouting Molag Bal away or being a match for any of them, especially depending on which area of Oblivion. Some areas have nothing to do with physical power, but the power you have over your mind, especially when facing Sheogorath or the realms of Vaermina (sp) which are constantly showing you images of the most horrifying things and more that you can't even fathom.

To be honest though, I really don't think many of those warriors in Sovngarde were running around pledging allegiance to Daedric Princes. Fighting with an evil and powerful Daedric artifact doesn't seem the most honorable IMO.

 

[Hildolfr]

I definitely see what you're saying. But in relation to the Daedric Princes, I don't think it will be that easy. I just can't see the dragonborn shouting Molag Bal away or being a match for any of them, especially depending on which area of Oblivion. Some areas have nothing to do with physical power, but the power you have over your mind, especially when facing Sheogorath or the realms of Vaermina (sp) which are constantly showing you images of the most horrifying things and more that you can't even fathom.

To be honest though, I really don't think many of those warriors in Sovngarde were running around pledging allegiance to Daedric Princes. Fighting with an evil and powerful Daedric artifact doesn't seem the most honorable IMO.

Yes, but I think it's less of a physical battle as much as a power of one's spirit. You have to think, we're talking metaphysical here. So, I don't mean that the Dragonborn is going to beat Nocturnal in an arm wrestling contest and get to go where he wants. I mean more like his spirit will be too strong for the princes to contain or control. Plus, you have to think he'll have the support of whatever realm he/she decides to go to. So, his power coupled with his choice's power... it would prove a test for any individual.

 

[tx12001]

what are you people talking about though? you never go up to azura or clavicus vile and ask them to take your soul your just doing a small quest for them a favour and they give you an artifact of theirs in return for you service like a mercenary gets payed that does not mean you are suddenly bound to them only few daedra are an exception and they could simply be avoided by becoming immortal

 

[Gigapact]

I definitely see what you're saying. But in relation to the Daedric Princes, I don't think it will be that easy. I just can't see the dragonborn shouting Molag Bal away or being a match for any of them, especially depending on which area of Oblivion. Some areas have nothing to do with physical power, but the power you have over your mind, especially when facing Sheogorath or the realms of Vaermina (sp) which are constantly showing you images of the most horrifying things and more that you can't even fathom.

To be honest though, I really don't think many of those warriors in Sovngarde were running around pledging allegiance to Daedric Princes. Fighting with an evil and powerful Daedric artifact doesn't seem the most honorable IMO.

Yes, but I think it's less of a physical battle as much as a power of one's spirit. You have to think, we're talking metaphysical here. So, I don't mean that the Dragonborn is going to beat Nocturnal in an arm wrestling contest and get to go where he wants. I mean more like his spirit will be too strong for the princes to contain or control. Plus, you have to think he'll have the support of whatever realm he/she decides to go to. So, his power coupled with his choice's power... it would prove a test for any individual.

When you put it like that, you have a good point. I didn't think about it that way. Fair enough although, I do find it interesting (spoilers)* that at the end of the Dragonborn DLC, Hermaeus Mora decided in an instant to take Miraak's life with no problem, and he was a very powerful dragonborn. From the looks of that, it just seemed that Hermaeus Mora instantly claimed him and sent Miraak to his own realm of Oblivion and that was that. But, then again, not sure how it works if you pledge to multiple princes.

I guess we shall never know I just don't see it working out in the Dragonborn's favor because everything has consequences, which is why all npc's either follow one Daedric Prince or none at all. I don't think it would be an intelligent decision to pledge to more than one. If Skyrim was real life, I'd pick none, or stick to one. I also would think that for example if you first pledge to Molag Bal. Then, you decide to go pledge to his enemy Boethiah. I highly doubt there wouldn't be consequences, and Molag Bal would strike you down in an instant for betrayal and send you into his realm, and that would be the end of that. The game just didn't go that in depth.

 

[Gigapact]

what are you people talking about though? you never go up to azura or clavicus vile and ask them to take your soul your just doing a small quest for them a favour and they give you an artifact of theirs in return for you service like a mercenary gets payed that does not mean you are suddenly bound to them only few daedra are an exception and they could simply be avoided by becoming immortal

Yes, but you can pledge your soul to more than one either way, including Dagon, Molag Bal, Nocturnal, etc.

Also, being "immortal" in Skyrim doesn't seem to work out so well considering you can be easily killed and kill other vampires. Although if you die a vamp I'd assume you'd go to Molag Bal, but what if you pledged to Nocturnal and Dagon? Who knows. I'll never know.

 

[tx12001]

only 1 of my characters is a vampire and killing a true vampire aint ezy to do and the other is a lich (very Difficult to kill) and when do you pledge yourself to mehrunes dagon? did I miss something and just because you become a vampire don't mean you belong to molag bal he really don't care about his creation and most vampires don't worship him anyway more probably worship clavicus vile