Are the Thalmor really that bad?

[XIIGenocide]

A thought just crossed my mind earlier, and well here we are.

Are the Thalmor and Aldmeri really that bad? I was thinking about it and aren't they just making a bid for power? Not unlike the one that Tiber Septim made when he was conquering Tamriel? How is that different to what the Aldmeri Dominion is doing or are trying to do?

Just a thought.

Opinions?

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

I personally think it is just a scare. The Thalmor need Skyrim in a state of war, so...

 

[AS88]

It's all about perspective.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

It's all about perspective.

and there is no real evidence that the Thalmor are more than hot air right now.

 

[LotusEater]

Hmmmm...

They have a prison camp in operation
One tries to destroy the College
Another kidnaps a Skaal and tortures him for Stalhrim information
Every one you come in contact with is a total a-hole
Even the high elf student at the College is a piece of work

Off the top of my head...

I say ya... they that bad...

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Hmmmm...

They have a prison camp in operation
One tries to destroy the College
Another kidnaps a Skaal and tortures him for Stalhrim information
Every one you come in contact with is a total a-hole
Even the high elf student at the College is a piece of work

Off the top of my head...

I say ya... they that bad...

and they all go down easily, plus two soldiers dis their higher-ups. kind of less than bad to me.

 

[LotusEater]

Hmmmm...

They have a prison camp in operation
One tries to destroy the College
Another kidnaps a Skaal and tortures him for Stalhrim information
Every one you come in contact with is a total a-hole
Even the high elf student at the College is a piece of work

Off the top of my head...

I say ya... they that bad...

and they all go down easily, plus two soldiers dis their higher-ups. kind of less than bad to me.

So because they are easily dispatched that makes them somehow less evil and corrupt? Interesting concept.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Hmmmm...

They have a prison camp in operation
One tries to destroy the College
Another kidnaps a Skaal and tortures him for Stalhrim information
Every one you come in contact with is a total a-hole
Even the high elf student at the College is a piece of work

Off the top of my head...

I say ya... they that bad...

and they all go down easily, plus two soldiers dis their higher-ups. kind of less than bad to me.

So because they are easily dispatched that makes them somehow less evil and corrupt? Interesting concept.

was talking about bad, not evil. difference there is that bad is just action, and evil is a morality.

 

[Dabiene Caristiana]

I didn't think much of it until Diplomatic Immunity. After I saw that I was immediately taken aback by it. They lost all my respect for it. Tiber Septim did use diplomatic skills to lesson the cost of lives (amongst other obviously reasons). I'm not into politics and probably will get some heat for this.

NOTE: Skyrim was my first game and therefore I am not a lore master, nor do I claim to be.

The Thalmor as Delphine said are the worst enemy to mankind. The Dominion isn't the exact same thing. The thalmor in my eyes are extremists. However due to my upbringing and the quote:

"Don't judge a person until you walked in his shoes."

That quote makes me question everything in society. In my eyes the Thalmor believe even though they are superior to man, they have made the actions of what a man can do. They wish to conquer and make it clear they are the dominant race, ignorant to the fact that their actions can be just as lowly as all other races can be.

I base my fact on judging people in my ways through different philosophies. The Thalmor SEEMINGLY, key word here based on their actions, don't care about the future, and care about the now. We do NOT know however individual members of the Thalmor or Dominion on how they feel about it. Were some of them forced to join the radical group? Were they threatened? Did they join willingly but do not approve of their actions? Same with the Stormcloaks and Imperials. Labels are put on and the individuals are no accounted for.

This song basically outlines the fact we are all one, we all make mistakes, we all do something for a cause, or even make a claim on 'he said, she said'. If Races that think they are better than one another as a WHOLE, then they are ignorant. And as I was taught, "Ignorance leads to arrogance".

So to cap it off, I'm not siding with anyone on this. This is through MY EYES. And truth be told if I'm judged for that, so be it. I hope I haven't stepped on anyone's toes with this. I surely didn't mean to offend anyone if I did. I wouldn't apologize ahead if I didn't care.

 

[LotusEater]

and they all go down easily, plus two soldiers dis their higher-ups. kind of less than bad to me.

So because they are easily dispatched that makes them somehow less evil and corrupt? Interesting concept.

was talking about bad, not evil. difference there is that bad is just action, and evil is a morality.

So prison camps, kidnapping, torture, destruction of property while taking innocent lives is just... bad? What does one have to do to achieve evil in your view? Kick a puppy?

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

So because they are easily dispatched that makes them somehow less evil and corrupt? Interesting concept.

was talking about bad, not evil. difference there is that bad is just action, and evil is a morality.

So prison camps, kidnapping, torture, destruction of property while taking innocent lives is just... bad? What does one have to do to achieve evil in your view? Kick a puppy?

bad=action, evil=morality. Ask the Red Lanterns of DC if they are evil for doing bad actions. morality is more than action, it is also motive.

 

[Pete]

May not be the Thalmor per se, but that fact that the elves are constantly attacking the humans through-out history. The oldest weapons in Skyrim are especially designed to kill them; like Wuuthrad. Those familiar with the mage quest line will understand.

 

[LotusEater]

was talking about bad, not evil. difference there is that bad is just action, and evil is a morality.

So prison camps, kidnapping, torture, destruction of property while taking innocent lives is just... bad? What does one have to do to achieve evil in your view? Kick a puppy?

bad=action, evil=morality. Ask the Red Lanterns of DC if they are evil for doing bad actions. morality is more than action, it is also motive.

Huh? Bad is an adjective. It describes something. Bad smell, bad manners, bad intentions, bad taste, bad hair, bad breath, etc, etc... bad people... Thalmor... see?

From the dictionary:

2. Having a wicked or EVIL character; MORALLY reprehensible.

If that doesn't describe the Thalmor in Skyrim then I don't know what does. Enlighten me.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

So prison camps, kidnapping, torture, destruction of property while taking innocent lives is just... bad? What does one have to do to achieve evil in your view? Kick a puppy?

bad=action, evil=morality. Ask the Red Lanterns of DC if they are evil for doing bad actions. morality is more than action, it is also motive.

Huh? Bad is an adjective. It describes something. Bad smell, bad manners, bad intentions, bad taste, bad hair, bad breath, etc, etc... bad people... Thalmor... see?

From the dictionary:

2. Having a wicked or EVIL character; MORALLY reprehensible.

If that doesn't describe the Thalmor in Skyrim then I don't know what does. Enlighten me.

but you can do bad things without being "bad people". like Anti-heroes. They often do extreme/bad things, but are actually heroes. they would be "Bad people" but are actually good in their motives, but their actions are morally reprehensible.

 

[LotusEater]

bad=action, evil=morality. Ask the Red Lanterns of DC if they are evil for doing bad actions. morality is more than action, it is also motive.

Huh? Bad is an adjective. It describes something. Bad smell, bad manners, bad intentions, bad taste, bad hair, bad breath, etc, etc... bad people... Thalmor... see?

From the dictionary:

2. Having a wicked or EVIL character; MORALLY reprehensible.

If that doesn't describe the Thalmor in Skyrim then I don't know what does. Enlighten me.

but you can do bad things without being "bad people". like Anti-heroes. They often do extreme/bad things, but are actually heroes. they would be "Bad people" but are actually good in their motives, but their actions are morally reprehensible.

Alright, so picking your nose and flinging the booger at someione is bad, agreed. The Thalmor, I'm afraid, are guilty of quite a bit more than booger flinging, with nothing good to balance it out that I can think of. Can you give me an instance in Skyrim where a Thalmor saves the day... or even helps to save the day? I can't, but that don't mean there isn't one.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Huh? Bad is an adjective. It describes something. Bad smell, bad manners, bad intentions, bad taste, bad hair, bad breath, etc, etc... bad people... Thalmor... see?

From the dictionary:

2. Having a wicked or EVIL character; MORALLY reprehensible.

If that doesn't describe the Thalmor in Skyrim then I don't know what does. Enlighten me.

but you can do bad things without being "bad people". like Anti-heroes. They often do extreme/bad things, but are actually heroes. they would be "Bad people" but are actually good in their motives, but their actions are morally reprehensible.

Alright, so picking your nose and flinging the booger at someione is bad, agreed. The Thalmor, I'm afraid, are guilty of quite a bit more than booger flinging, with nothing good to balance it out that I can think of. Can you give me an instance in Skyrim where a Thalmor saves the day... or even helps to save the day? I can't, but that don't mean there isn't one.

like I said, evil fits their morality, while bad fits their actions. for the good guys with bad actions/attitude, look for the trope "Knight Templar."

 

[LotusEater]

but you can do bad things without being "bad people". like Anti-heroes. They often do extreme/bad things, but are actually heroes. they would be "Bad people" but are actually good in their motives, but their actions are morally reprehensible.

Alright, so picking your nose and flinging the booger at someione is bad, agreed. The Thalmor, I'm afraid, are guilty of quite a bit more than booger flinging, with nothing good to balance it out that I can think of. Can you give me an instance in Skyrim where a Thalmor saves the day... or even helps to save the day? I can't, but that don't mean there isn't one.

like I said, evil fits their morality, while bad fits their actions. for the good guys with bad actions/attitude, look for the trope "Knight Templar."

You are still holding on to this bad/evil argument? Evil and bad can be used in the same context, get over it already. You seem to be implying that the Thalmor are anti-heroes, which would be fine if you could provide me with a few examples of goodness they exhibit to balance the bad. And I'm not talking about a high-elf NPC, I'm talking about the Thalmor. What positive influence are they bringing to the table that I'm not seeing? Because all I see are them treating humans like crap.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Alright, so picking your nose and flinging the booger at someione is bad, agreed. The Thalmor, I'm afraid, are guilty of quite a bit more than booger flinging, with nothing good to balance it out that I can think of. Can you give me an instance in Skyrim where a Thalmor saves the day... or even helps to save the day? I can't, but that don't mean there isn't one.

like I said, evil fits their morality, while bad fits their actions. for the good guys with bad actions/attitude, look for the trope "Knight Templar."

You are still holding on to this bad/evil argument? Evil and bad can be used in the same context, get over it already. You seem to be implying that the Thalmor are anti-heroes, which would be fine if you could provide me with a few examples of goodness they exhibit to balance the bad. And I'm not talking about a high-elf NPC, I'm talking about the Thalmor. What positive influence are they bringing to the table that I'm not seeing? Because all I see are them treating humans like crap.

I was never implying that. I was implying that people make the Thalmor out to be threats they fail to be, is all.

my view of bad is a bully, or a shoplifter. I use evil to describe the Thalmor for obvious villainy ideas

 

[LotusEater]

like I said, evil fits their morality, while bad fits their actions. for the good guys with bad actions/attitude, look for the trope "Knight Templar."

You are still holding on to this bad/evil argument? Evil and bad can be used in the same context, get over it already. You seem to be implying that the Thalmor are anti-heroes, which would be fine if you could provide me with a few examples of goodness they exhibit to balance the bad. And I'm not talking about a high-elf NPC, I'm talking about the Thalmor. What positive influence are they bringing to the table that I'm not seeing? Because all I see are them treating humans like crap.

I was never implying that. I was implying that people make the Thalmor out to be threats they fail to be, is all.

my view of bad is a bully, or a shoplifter. I use evil to describe the Thalmor for obvious villainy ideas

Now I'm getting confused. Sorry. First you said they are less than bad... now you describe them as evil. Is evil not bad?

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

You are still holding on to this bad/evil argument? Evil and bad can be used in the same context, get over it already. You seem to be implying that the Thalmor are anti-heroes, which would be fine if you could provide me with a few examples of goodness they exhibit to balance the bad. And I'm not talking about a high-elf NPC, I'm talking about the Thalmor. What positive influence are they bringing to the table that I'm not seeing? Because all I see are them treating humans like crap.

I was never implying that. I was implying that people make the Thalmor out to be threats they fail to be, is all.

my view of bad is a bully, or a shoplifter. I use evil to describe the Thalmor for obvious villainy ideas

Now I'm getting confused. Sorry. First you said they are less than bad... now you describe them as evil. Is evil not bad?

Evil is more severe, like "I wanna unmake the world" bad. Bad is more of a "I want to bully you for fun."