Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

thatwudbryan · Jun 25, 2013

DrunkenMage said:
Tullius' "boys" are Auxiliaries who are locally recruited from Skyrim's local population, they aren't highly trained, so they're basically on par with the Stormcloaks. He isn't getting much outside reinforcements and resources, he also had Ulfric in a cart on the way to lose his head. The reason the Imperials are having trouble dealing with the Civil War is because the Thalmor themselves are providing indirect aid and keeping Ulfric Stormcloak alive. If anything since Ulfric is having trouble dealing with poorly trained and low equipped Auxiliary Legions, how would he defeat the highly trained armies of the Aldmeri Dominion? They are one of the only forces on Nirn that have been able to wipe out entire Legions.

I also wouldn't say they're having too much trouble, I see Stormcloak prisoners along the roads quite often.

The true Legionnaires are all within Cyrodiil's borders, the Civil War in Skyrim is but a little side show before the main event against the Thalmor resumes. The Empire didn't get a beat down last time, they won but were unable to keep fighting. They wiped out every single Aldmeri within Cyrodiil, the Thalmor General was kept hanging alive for thirty three days off the White-Gold Tower.

During the Great War the Empire was doing quite well, they had lost the Imperial City and were offered peace but rejected it and won the battle. It was just the Empire couldn't take the war beyond it's own borders, their intelligence force had been wiped out and they were effectively blind to all outside Cyrodiil. To defeat the Aldmeri Dominion you need to cut off it's head, which is Summerset Isles.

I wouldn't want Ulfric leading a charge against anything, he cares for songs and personal glory, not how many die to obtain it. The more Nords that die in the 'charge' the better the song no doubt.

Damn, seems the defense of the Empire has gotten stronger in this thread

... However, the Empire had their shot at taking down the Thalmor and failed. Not only failed but played into their hands perfectly by signing the WGC, which, I would assume, was a clever plot to enrage some of the devout Talos worshippers (natives of Skyrim/Nords/SC's) hopefully causing waves amongst the people and it did exactly that. All the problems brought to Skyrim were due to the affairs of the A.D. and the Empire. I for one can't argue against the people of which the land that these two 'respected' parties have come in and basically tried to regulate and control, are standing up for whats theirs and bringing the fight to both the A.D. and the mighty Empire. Do I agree thats the best option to taking down the Thalmor? No. Do I think its a more just cause than the Imperials and their grand city and fat bellies? Yes. Maybe in Oblivion the Empire was where its at but not in Skyrim.

Dagmar · Jun 25, 2013

Gigawatts said:
In the Great War between the High Elves and Imperials, the nords were losing big time.

The Nords were not losing big time. The war fronts were in Cyrodiil and Hammerfell. High Rock and Skyrim were unscathed during The Great War. This and the passage of time are reasons why some people in Skyrim don't appreciate the value of the tradeoff of cessation of hostilites by the Aldmeri Dominion in exchange for outlawing the worship of Talos.

Gigawatts said:
...So, instead of demolishing them..

It's highly improbable that the Aldmeri Dominion could have demolished the Empire. This can be inferred because of the massive size of the existing Aldmeri Dominion army in Cyrodiil, the fact that it was entirely annihilated by the Imperial Legions by the end of the Battle of the Red Ring, and the fact that the Aldmeri Dominion provided no reinforcements for its army in it's war with the Redguard Resistance resulting in the loss of all the territory it had taken in Hammerfell during the Great War under the terms of the Second Treaty of Stros M'kai.

Many players that advocate for the Stormcloaks rely on this to support the premise that the Empire's agreement to the terms of the White-Gold Concordat was premature. However, without a formal cessation of hostilities, the Aldmeri Dominion would have been free to harass the Empire with small border raids as it did during much of the late Second Era. Coupled with the actual bandit, mercenary and corsair raids that actually occured afterwards due to a diminished Imperial Legion, failure to secure a peace treaty would have resulted in the prolonged suffering of the people in Cyrodiil and setback the recovery process by years if not over a decade.

Gigawatts said:
...the High Elves (Thalmor embassy as they are known now)...

Not all High Elves are part of the Aldmeri Dominion, and only a smaller group of those within the Aldmeri Dominion are Thalmor (they're simply known as the Thalmor not the Thalmor embassy). The Thalmor are the ruling class of the Aldmeri Dominion.

Dagmar · Jun 25, 2013

thatwudbryan said:
...was a clever plot to enrage some of the devout Talos worshippers (natives of Skyrim/Nords/SC's) hopefully causing waves amongst the people and it did exactly that...

It didn't create any problems for 25 years. The only difference between the present time and the prior 25 years is the existence of Ulfric and the Stormcloaks. They literally created the agitation which is one of the reasons why the Thalmor refer to him as an asset in their dossier on him.

thatwudbryan said:
... All the problems brought to Skyrim were due to the affairs of the A.D. and the Empire....

The affairs of the Empire are the affairs of Skyrim and every other province within the Empire. Trying to distinguish this as if it's meaningful is like saying all the problems brought to New York are due to the affairs of the United States and China.

thatwudbryan said:
... I for one can't argue against the people of which the land...

Then you have no standing to argue at all. Roughly half of those people willingly support and fight for the Empire and consider that standing up for what's theirs.

thatwudbryan said:
... that these two 'respected' parties have come in and basically tried to regulate and control

The Empire didn't come in and try to regulate Skyrim. It was welcomed and invited to Skyrim over nine centuries ago. This is akin to saying that the United States army came into Texas to try to regulate and control it. The Imperial Legion's purpose in Skyrim is to protect the province and maintain order. The Thalmor Justiciars are the ones charged with primary enforcement of the ban on Talos worship.

thatwudbryan said:
...are standing up for whats theirs and bringing the fight to both the A.D. and the mighty Empire. Do I agree thats the best option to taking down the Thalmor?

They're not really bringing the fight to either. With regards to the Thalmor, the most they can accomplish is the expulsion of the Thalmor Justiciars from Skyrim and the Justiciars are only a small part of the Aldmeri Dominion. The only part of the Empire that they are combatting is composed, for the most part, out of their fellow Nords.

thatwudbryan said:
... No. Do I think its a more just cause than the Imperials and their grand city and fat bellies?...

Now you're being silly. No one in Skyrim is fat. It reminds me of a winterland version of Venice Beach.

Tyer032392 · Jun 26, 2013

ShangTsung said:
you're right, i suppose it is pointless to list facts considering he will just continue to make stuff up to falsely back up his claim.. it just drives me nuts how you imperial guys try to make out how the stormcloaks are such horrible guys just cause they don't appreciate being slaves to another race, stevie wonder could see the stormcloaks are the "good guys" in this story, yall make no freakin sense! i could say more but i won't..

It's not about who is good or bad, both sides have their skeletons so to say. The Empire is more open to other races than the Stormcloaks are, but only to a certain extent. The Stormcloaks as I have gathered are fighting to protect their way of life and their traditions through Ulfric and his uprising and fighting an Empire that has changed severely from when the last Septim died a heroic death worthy of any Nord. The Empire on the other hand and the Nords who support it are trying to protect what Tiber Septim founded and are hoping for a revival of the Empire and it being restored to its former glory, possible with the Dragonborn at the helm. However, to claim that one side or the other is more racist than the other is mostly an general consensus amongst both Stormcloak and Imperial supporters alike. In the end, they have about the same amount of racism involved, but are fighting for very different things.

P.S: I support the Empire

Ozan · Jun 26, 2013

Tyer032392 said:
P.S: I support the Empire

Pity.

ragnar silver-blade · Jun 26, 2013

If I might ask politely what the fluff did I just take 3 hours reading in an argument about a game I thought fans of fallout were bad at arguing whether their faction is better

Delusional · Jun 26, 2013

Ozan said:
Pity.

I've heard from several places that Khajiit furs look quite nice on walls. Is this true? And can I find some that would match Imperial red?

Ozan · Jun 26, 2013

Delusional said:
I've heard from several places that Khajiit furs look quite nice on walls. Is this true? And can I find some that would match Imperial red?

Meh. Argonian is better.

Dark Assassin · Jun 27, 2013

ragnar silver-blade said:
If I might ask politely what the fluff did I just take 3 hours reading in an argument about a game I thought fans of fallout were bad at arguing whether their faction is better

Welcome to the forums!

Ozan · Jun 27, 2013

((ROMANES EUNT DOMUS!!!))

Pendalyn · Jun 29, 2013

ragnar silver-blade said:
If I might ask politely what the fluff did I just take 3 hours reading in an argument about a game I thought fans of fallout were bad at arguing whether their faction is better

Didn't you expect this from Skyrim players? Or did you join these forums for some other purpose?

I just read a book (in game), whose title I cannot remember and whose author remains unknown. It described the Nords as a people not interested in sharing other cultures, or even being fond of other races. I'll wait till I get home to find the name of it (hopefully someone knows off hand what I speak of), and then bring it up again, but it really had me questioning if I wanted to support the stormcloaks. I've always leaned towards a hatred of the bigger picture (the A.D.), so perhaps I'll stick with that backstory.
EDIT:** I believe the books name is Children of the Sky.

What good is a Skyrim inhabited soley by a people who have no desire to share or interact with the rest of the world? The Imperials may not have it right either, but the books I've read (limited in number as they are) would indicate to me that a Nord run Skyrim would be dull, at best.

Lifts-Her-Tail · Jun 29, 2013

ragnar silver-blade said:
If I might ask politely what the fluff did I just take 3 hours reading in an argument about a game I thought fans of fallout were bad at arguing whether their faction is better

This is Skyrim

Raijin · Jun 29, 2013

ragnar silver-blade said:
If I might ask politely what the fluff did I just take 3 hours reading in an argument about a game I thought fans of fallout were bad at arguing whether their faction is better

I can't believe you've spent 3 hours reading this thread. Congratulations on that my friend

So let me ask you this kind question.......... Are you #Team Stormcloaks or #Team Empire? Which one do you choose and why?

Raijin · Jun 29, 2013

Dagmar said:
Ain't nothing wrong with being a milk drinker

Hubba hubba!

Uh I won't bother commenting on that photo. It looks like something else is on his face, not just milk.

Pendalyn · Jun 29, 2013

Raijin said:
Uh I won't bother commenting on that photo. It looks like something else is on his face, not just milk.

"something else" doesn't look like that on a face.....

Just sayin.

Raijin · Jun 29, 2013

Pendalyn said:
"something else" doesn't look like that on a face.....

Just sayin.

You never know

DrunkenMage · Jun 29, 2013

Long live the Empire.

Jader · Jun 30, 2013

Imperials.Ulfric is a racist turd

High King of Skyrim · Jun 30, 2013

Pendalyn said:
Didn't you expect this from Skyrim players? Or did you join these forums for some other purpose?

I just read a book (in game), whose title I cannot remember and whose author remains unknown. It described the Nords as a people not interested in sharing other cultures, or even being fond of other races. I'll wait till I get home to find the name of it (hopefully someone knows off hand what I speak of), and then bring it up again, but it really had me questioning if I wanted to support the stormcloaks. I've always leaned towards a hatred of the bigger picture (the A.D.), so perhaps I'll stick with that backstory.
EDIT:** I believe the books name is Children of the Sky.

What good is a Skyrim inhabited soley by a people who have no desire to share or interact with the rest of the world? The Imperials may not have it right either, but the books I've read (limited in number as they are) would indicate to me that a Nord run Skyrim would be dull, at best.

Nords do run Skyrim, what do you think the Jarls are doing?

Pendalyn · Jun 30, 2013

tduz said:
Nords do run Skyrim, what do you think the Jarls are doing?

They do, but I still see them as puppets, some more independent than others. My mind is far from made up, I'm never a fan of oppression of a peoples, but if allowing those people to govern themselves would prove to be more unstable and potentially volatile, I'm ok with the current system me thinks.

Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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