SprSynJn
Member
You keep using that argument I see. Do you use similar arguments when discussing homosexuals and them being physically impossible to breed? Or do you just dismiss that as "bigotry"?
Once, just once, let's have a rational discussion about incest.
- Thread starter FullmetalHeart20
- Start date
You keep using that argument I see. Do you use similar arguments when discussing homosexuals and them being physically impossible to breed? Or do you just dismiss that as "bigotry"?
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
I've been listening to what you people are saying. Yes, people can be irresponsible, and yes, I didn't know there were laws applying to couples that aren't related. I hear the things I got wrong, and I'm acknowledging them.
My argument doesn't revolve around birth control or how responsible and fair I think people act, despite what you think. It's about how incest doesn't creat any problems that don't exist anyway. Babies are born wrong, relationships have bad power dynamics, and some people are too careless for safe sex. This isn't caused by incest, and it won't go away anytime soon. So I say let people be together. It won't make things any worse.
Doctor Langstrom
I want to be FEARED!
Well, homosexuality is observed in various animal species. Quite a lot actually. Homosexuality is possibly a form of population control.
Don't really see where you are going with this. There's no positive outcome when it comes to an incestous pairing.
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
But why is that? If there is only a negative outcome, than who creates it? The couple, society. Where does the pain come from?
SprSynJn
Member
And you're saying incest is not seen in any species on this planet? You know exactly where I'm going with this by the way. You are trying to justify one abnormal act but put down another when they are both very similar, and until recently, were both seen as taboo. Society has really shaped your way of thinking it seems.
Doctor Langstrom
I want to be FEARED!
I don't see homosexuality as being abnormal. And how the hell is homosexuality and incest similar? One is a sexual orientation and the other is not. And both are still seen as taboo by a lot of people, but with more educational materials out there, people are starting to realize that homosexuality is quite common.
As I've said, my disapproval for two family member banging one another isn't going to stop them from doing so. In fact I could care less, my concern is the kind of offspring they could be bringing into this world. It's unfair to the child. Not just because of the possible medical issues, but also because of the negative stigma and very likely bullying the child will receive because his brother and father are the same person.
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
But people already have to put up with that stuff. Don't you care about them?
As for being abnormal, normal isn't a very strong reason to do something. If people can live a quiet, peaceful life without harming anyone and still get plops from society, I know who has the problem.
Irish
Thane of Solitude
I don't see anything that can be considered "good" coming out of incest, especially involving immediate family members. Not only is it highly probable that they'd pass on defective recessive genes to their offspring should they procreate, but I'm very sure it would be mentally, emotionally, and physically devastating to all family members involved - directly and indirectly - ESPECIALLY if things go sour.
This discussion has been nothing but a massive circle jerk, to be honest. We're beating a dead horse, so to speak.
This discussion has been nothing but a massive circle jerk, to be honest. We're beating a dead horse, so to speak.
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
I have an older brother that I really hate. And I mean really. Time is doing nothing to fix things, and it just keeps getting worse. I can't imagine a breakup worse than this. If things don't go sour, than the problem is society telling them how horrible they are.
Eh? This thread escalated quickly. The main post of this thread has been answered, and you keep changing your challenge. Are you saying that society is imperfect and takes some things too far? That's not just with incest, though I personally disapprove of it, and is more of a constant variable than something that is debateable. Just what are you trying to say so it can be more easily addressed?
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
That did escalate. What I'm trying to say what my first post here says. Incest get's too much hate. Once we think about it rationally, everything wrong with it can be found in other relationships.
So you're shocked that society has a mean streak? It is a genetic fact that everyone is subject to genetic mutations, and really it's a miracle any of us come out healthy. However, it is also a fact that in cases of incest the chances of a genetic mutation are much higher. There's your answer. As for society and all it's flaws... go climb a mountain, find some monks, learn some special fighting skills, and meditate on it for awhile. When you find your answer, your welcome to come back and share it with us.
Dagmar
Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
You're assuming that they didn't. One of the most comprehensive studies was performed in the Czech Republic because of the high tolerance/indifference to consensual incest there, a country where birth control is available and abortion is legal. The abortion laws there are very permissive when it comes to pregnancies from incest because of the high complication rate, and the society is exceptionally accepting of the notion of abortion in such cases. That doesn't exactly support the notion that the over 160 subjects of study were the results of unwanted pregnancy.
Balerion Blackdread
Eater of Worlds and Pie
There's nothing pretend about it. It's a matter of undeniable fact that the stated purpose of crimes against incest in either the legislative notes or the statutes themselves is because of the increased risk of congenital birth defects, which is why the same statutes don't criminalize forms of incest where the such risk isn't significant, i.e. cousins. There's still plenty of stigma attached to that kind of relationship but it's specifically carved out from most criminal incest laws.
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
What about when there isn't a child, or if they're the same gender? What if a couple of siblings are just fooling around, and their parents react in the worst way possible. It's grown to the point where the stigma can exist without worrying about little mutant babies.
Balerion Blackdread
Eater of Worlds and Pie
And...? You implied that it's not all about genetics and congenital birth defects and I pointed out that the law doesn't reflect that. Whether it's a legitimate concern or not doesn't change the fact that it is the only concern.
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
That may be the case with the law, but society is a different matter. Social conditioning makes the very subject something unpleasant. In this day and age, it's not a deformed baby that dooms incest. It's how the people in one's life react when they find out about it.
And for the record, I didn't imply anything. The revulsion people have towards this is about more than just offspring.
The Phoenician
Shiney, let's be bad guys.
You can not take having a child out of the equation. Even in this day and age other than a total hysterectomy there are no 100% effective forms of birth control.
There is no rational defense of incest / inbreeding. The whole argument that since disease, mental illness, and abuse exist without incest. So we should just green light a culture that would be a breeding ground for all three is devoid of any logic.
There is no rational defense of incest / inbreeding. The whole argument that since disease, mental illness, and abuse exist without incest. So we should just green light a culture that would be a breeding ground for all three is devoid of any logic.
SprSynJn
Member
And what is the rational defense for homosexuality? That it's more common than people think?
sticky runes
Well-Known Member
Obviously, shagging your cousin, aunt or uncle is not as bad as shagging your sibling, and shagging your sibling is not as bad as shagging your parent. Kind of like how breaking your leg is not as bad as losing your arm, which is not as bad as being shot in the head. One thing may not be as extreme as the other, but it's still something I would not pursue or encourage. It's still "keeping it in the family", and is bordering on that type of incest, and should be steered away from.
As for what you mentioned about protecting and nurturing in a non-incestuous relationship - that is something that comes from building a new family. People developing from strangers, to lovers, to starting a new family of their own. It's not the same as taking an existing family member and reshaping the bond you already have with them into something else.
