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Kory Stukenborg

Proud Member of the Mercer County Facial Hair Club
Why not get a higher enchanting level, go to the workbench and grindstone, improve your weapons/armor, and go enchant them for a bit more damage? You could also try dual-wielding. I do that for max damage.
 

Jaeger

Active Member
^^

That's why you get a soul trap weapon. Or go to ironbound barrow for fiery soul trap. Use your regular weapon against humans, mer and beasts (since they require black soul gems) and use your soul trap weapon vs critters.
 

Jaeger

Active Member
so if i get my armor rating over 1000 is it gonna make a difference if the cap is 567-667?

If you have bought any Armor perks like Juggernault, I would either respec with the black book (or once Armor skill gets to 100, make it Legendary) then see if you need any Armor perks to still hit the cap.
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
...[colossal wall of text]....
...[yet another colossal wall of text]....
1.jpg


From a statistical analysis point of view your test methodology is flawed at its inception. No intelligent testing and analysis to detect a difference of ~3% (the difference between physical damage resistance with actual armor rating of 642 instead of 667) using a scale of 100 is going to dismiss a variance of 3% as insubstantial which is exactly what you did as soon as you started your test. :rolleyes:

I and others have used more reliable and easily reproducible testing methodology in the actual game which is why the article reads as stated and why it won't be changing barring something actually changing regarding the game mechanics of armor rating. You can set your characters armor rating to 567 with four, three, two, and one piece of armor, and spawn a creature which does a higher amount of damage than 100 and read out the damage to two decimal points all by using the console. This is more accurate than your needlessly convoluted and unnecessary methodology of throwing in things like wards and mixing light and heavy armors. The results are consistent with physical damage resistance yielded by actual armor ratings of 667, 642, 617 and 592 or ~80%, ~77%, ~74% and ~71%. This was tested on 25 data points for each armor configuration (you never stated how many data points you used to test each time which is relevant) by me and lord knows how many by others.

My reading comprehension is fine. Your testing methodology is not and neither are your reading comprehension skills which completely ignore what the article as a whole conveys about armor rating, hidden armor rating and the damage cap as you attempt to reinvent rules of syntax and sentence structure to support a position refuted by the facts. As you've been informed previously my edits and contributions are under my UESP username DagmarH.
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
If you have bought any Armor perks like Juggernault, I would either respec with the black book (or once Armor skill gets to 100, make it Legendary) then see if you need any Armor perks to still hit the cap.
For clarification, this is a feature only available through content from the DLC Dragonborn.
 

Agentoringe

Active Member
From your word usage and clear irritation, the problem your having here deary is that the methodology used is too simple for you to understand. I run across this problem alot with students that have a hard time comprehending the simple things in life and therefore overcomplicate nearly everything else to compensate for thier shortcoming. And your "I know you are but what am I" type of response screams complicated. lol

To avoid another "short story" lol I'm gonna try n keep this simple as I can so you can keep up, because explaining what is common sense to most (not complicated sense) is wasted on you.

Basing my testing on a scale around 100 is the EASIEST way to test the mathematics involved on a percentile scale. 0% being none of the total, and 100% being all of the total. which is what's in question. What armor rating is necessary to obtain the 80% damage mitigation cap. Using basic fractions and percentile values you can obtain all the information you need to draw a conclusion on the matter using damage bases of 1-100, because then the percentile relates about as close as you can to a 1/1 ratio with the damage dealt. Which is where your "convolution" comes into play. You want to make this out to be some expert analysis done by someone who clearly thinks too highly of themselves. When a more simple explanation is all that's needed.

The article, as infallible as you may complicate it to be, aside from a jumbled mess of numbers to detail the formula used, is quite simple. It's very straightforward and directly to the point. When you add all those numbers and formulas and "ninja armor ratings" it over complicates the information the people want. You could cut the entire article down to JUST the "armor cap" section and it explains everything you need to know about armor/defenses/and physical damage mitigation on your character.

As I stated, in the "armor cap" section, the first line of it states that physical damage mitigation is capped at 80%, that's the first question anyone wearing armor would ask. What is my mitigation cap? 80% simple question, simple answer...ok, next question, is how do I achieve that? Again, simple answer in the second sentence. This occurs...meaning it happens, meaning your 80% physical damage mitigation is obtained...when? When you reach a displayed armor rating of 567 when wearing 4 pieces of armor...again, simple question, simple answer...if your displayed armor rating is 567...you have acquired the 80% mitigation. That's VERY simple, and apparently too simple for you to comprehend. Even if they want to ask slightly more complicated, but still simple mind you, questions about specifics. Like, do I have to wear all light armor? Or all heavy armor? Or can I mix and match? The same section clearly states that you can obtain the 567 displayed armor rating using ANY type of armor. Doesn't say set...it says any armor type that can be upgraded using the smithing skill. Careful, here's the real brain teaser for you, what if I wear a light armor with only 2 pieces of heavy armor and a shield in one hand? Il simplify that for you, that means that any combination of armor you wear, as long as your displayed armor rating is 567, you have the physical damage mitigation cap of 80%...

567 displayed armor rating, no matter the armor worn, equals the 80% mitigation cap....anyone other than dagmar have a problem understanding that?

Deary, the thing is...the first 2 sentences of the armor cap section conflicts with the formula given earlier in the article, not to mention the entire section of "armor cap" never mentioning a hidden armor value needed to reach the armor cap. The article as a whole is flawed, product of people such as yourself trying to complicate a simple situation to look more intelligent. It's not necessary to understand the mechanics of the game, neither is it necessary to acquire the desired knowledge of armor rating and physical damage mitigation. If the section "armor cap" is right, your formula posted was 10 minutes of wasted life. If its wrong, then your article is flawed. But the armor cap section and the statements made in it conflict with the formula given. The formula says it takes displayed+ hidden to achieve the 80% mitigation and the armor cap section says very simply that 80% mitigation occurs at 567 displayed armor rating when wearing all four pieces of armor or 667 when not wearing any armor (which, still lacking an explanation of how you achieve a hidden armor rating if your not wearing armor..so which one is the truth? And which one isn't?
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
....because explaining what is common sense....
You can pat yourself on the back as hard as you like but saying it's common sense doesn't make it so. You appear to have substantial deficits in that aspect.
....Basing my testing on a scale around 100 is the EASIEST way to test the mathematics involved on a percentile scale....
It may me easiest for the extremely mathematically challenged but if you actually had the common sense you attribute to your imaginary crowd of supporters you would easily comprehend why it's a completely flawed approach given the variance you are allowing of 3 points to detect a 3% difference. If you're too obtuse to understand why then you're truly incapable of even testing the mechanics of armor rating, and statements like this only reniforce that conclusion:
.... 0% being none of the total, and 100% being all of the total. which is what's in question...

________________________________________________________________________________

....When a more simple explanation is all that's needed...
There was nothing simple about your wall of text. Simple = concise, not simple minded, which is what your flawed methodology embraces. I explained a far more understandable, reliable and reproducable methodology with a fraction of the amount of text your ramblings required. The results of that methodology refute your findings, are peer reviewed, and are consistent with the formula for damage resistance in the article.
....aside from a jumbled mess of numbers to detail the formula used...
It's only jumbled for someone who lacks basic secondary school skills in arithmetic. It utilizes simple multiplication and addition.
....You could cut the entire article down to JUST the "armor cap" section and it explains everything you need to know about armor/defenses/and physical damage mitigation on your character...
You're a poster boy for why this isn't true as your misinterpretation of what it is saying supports the opposite notion.
....When you reach a displayed armor rating of 567 when wearing 4 pieces of armor...again, simple question, simple answer...if your displayed armor rating is 567...you have acquired the 80% mitigation. That's VERY simple, and apparently too simple for you to comprehend...
It's apparently too complicated for you to comprehend. It clearly qualifies the statement by stating it's 567 when wearing 4 pieces of armor. The logical corollary is that it is not 567 if you are not wearing 4 pieces of armor with the additonal corollary that the number of armor pieces you're wearing will affect the required displayed armor rating. Otherwise it would not even mention wearing armor nor would it specify 4 pieces of armor. The formula explains why it is 567 with 4 pieces of armor. It doesn't conflict with it.

Your testing methodology is flawed and refuted by reliable testing methodology. Your reading comprehension is lacking and therefore your interpretation of the article is flawed. There is no contradiction between the formula and the armor cap section in the article. You simply don't understand what the article is saying and therefore don't understand the mechanics of armor rating. At this point that's your own personal issue. It does nothing to affect the veracity of the article or the true mechanics of armor rating.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
so basically there's not a "best" armor in the game
From all of this, that's what I'm gathering. It's all up to you and what you like. I like ebony at the moment, but that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with plate, glass, leather or anything else. With the right perks, I think they all pretty much can come out the same.
 

Joker

Cook, Wine Taster, Scotch Taster, Adventure Seeker
From all of this, that's what I'm gathering. It's all up to you and what you like. I like ebony at the moment, but that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with plate, glass, leather or anything else. With the right perks, I think they all pretty much can come out the same.

Yeah, 567, 667, what ever you end up at, you still can get hit, just not one-shot killed........:D
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
Yeah, 567, 667, what ever you end up at, you still can get hit, just not one-shot killed........:D
Exactly! There was nothing more depressing than that in the beginning.
 

Agentoringe

Active Member
Oye! I just read this string and now my head hurts I feel like I'm back doing word problems on the SAT.

Amen sir...(assuming you are a sir, lol) Her ostentatiousness isn't essential to convey the intendment of the article excogitated. Her pedantic nature clearly radiates when she endeavors to circumvent the mass of my inquiries and reverts to obloquies rather than be amicable.

See girly? Your not the only person who knows big words lol being of a simple nature does not mean that someone is simple minded, it means that person uses the easiest means with the greatest efficiency to acquire what they seek. Only an arrogant person lacking humility jumps immediately to that conclusion. Especially saying that just because it's common sense to me doesn't mean it's common sense, well, you claim that your statements offer common sense, but what complicated mess your making out of this isn't "common" at all. If it was, would you and I be the only people involved in this discussion?

You have strayed nearly completely from the subject at hand, avoided most of what I said because it didn't make sense to you when you attempted to over complicate it, and have resorted almost entirely to insults with little actual basis.

I personally feel a genuine empathy for someone like you that has to resort to a slightly expanded vocabulary and a titular profile photo to achieve the attention and recognition you apparently crave. As far as I'm concerned, your borderline belligerent comments are doing more damage to the understanding of the subject at hand than they are helping and this conversation is over, if I want to suffer any more attempts at insulting my intelligence il be sure to send you a PM.

Have fun deary, I hope your vain and self promoting attitude gets you everything you want in life and I have only sympathy for those who deal with you on a daily basis.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
Dagmar: I disavow any involvement with @Agentoringe's last post. I luv ya both:D . "You've been a good friend to me"... to paraphrase the big blond battleborn in Whiterun. By the way, nice braid dude! Just can't keep up with all that deep thinkin'! Me none too bright, ya know. I am staying well away from this. Math makes my teeth itch. :confused:
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
...she endeavors to circumvent the mass of my inquiries and reverts to obloquies rather than be amicable...
I circumvented nothing. I addressed all your points and your only response was to ignore them and engage in condescension with terms like deary and girly while failing to address any of my counterpoints other than to repeat the same empty arguments.

Let me spell it out for you since you're still not getting it. If you're testing for a damage difference of 77% (642 x .12) versus 80% (667 x .12) by removing one piece of armor based on delivery of 100 points of damage and you disregard a result of 23 points as irrelevant, your methodology is invalid on its face as that is in fact 77% physical damage resistance which can be interpreted as a data point that supports the notion that you just lost 25 points in actual armor rating necessary for the damage cap even though your displayed armor rating is 567.

Again in terms simple enough for you to understand, if you set the damage to 400 with the same 10 point variance your only dealing with a 1.3% variance in either direction for difference of damage of 3 points which will then actually provide meaningful results. It's the very definition of simple-minded, i.e. unsophisticated, to choose 100 points because you don't want to use larger numbers to yield more accurate and meaningful results simply to avoid having to do the math to figure out the percentage of damage blocked, with total disregard to the fact that relying on such a small amount of damage with such a relatively large variance won't produce meaningful results in most cases. I didn't jump to any conclusions. I simply made an observation about your approach to analyzing the situation.
...but what complicated mess your making out of this isn't "common" at all. If it was, would you and I be the only people involved in this discussion?
This is a complete failure in logic. The number of people involved in a discussion is completely irrelevant to what is or isn't a common sense understanding. That too is a matter of common sense. The fact that you find extremely basic arithmetic to be an anathema doesn't make it's use, which is integral to understanding the mechanics of armor rating, a "complcated mess". You are the first person on these forums who has ever taken that position. Doing basic arithmetic doesn't confuse most players, particularly when they're led through the steps as you've been.

The bottom line is that if you want to get an accurate in depth understanding of how the game mechanics work you can't ignore the mathematical expression of those mechanics. Some players don't want to or can't do the math so they simply accept what's ultimately conveyed at face value but you're the first I've encountered that is so intellectually dishonest that you would attempt to claim it's not necessary when confronted with the actual mechanics of an aspect of the game.

I've provided you with all you need to confirm what the article actually says but you apparently prefer to wallow in ignorance to coddle your ego. Even so I'll break it out into baby steps for you since you're not getting it. If you can get over your ego and ever decide to return from your journey of self-denial you can go into the game and verify the facts in the article:

1. Set your health to 2000 by targeting yourself and using the "set av health 2000" command
2. Wear any four pieces of armor and use "setav damageresist 567";
3. Set the game difficulty to Master to double incoming damage;
4. Quicksave your game;
5. Spawn a Giant using the "player.placeatme 00023aae 1";
6. Read the damage from each left handed attack with the "getavinfo health" command (since you don't like doing math you can also add Potions of Ultimate Healing into your inventory to take in between hits so you don't have to subtract the damage reading from the prior one to get a data point by using "player.addinventory 39be5 [# of potions you want here]";
7. Reload as many times as you need to get a few dozen data points for a meaningful average;
8. Repeat steps 1-7 but with one less piece of armor and repeat that 2 more times so you have reliable average damage for 4, 3, 2, and 1 piece of armor.

You'll find more damage is getting through each time. This is how we crunched the numbers long before the CK was released and it's easy enough for any player with the PC version to do this. I don't really care if you do it or not but you've been wrong about the mechanics of armor rating from your very first post on the subject matter and the people who rely on this forum for accurate information deserve to know that even if it wounds your ego to be called out on it.
 

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