In My Time of Need: Kematu or Saadia? (possible spoilers)

Kematu. If the Thalmor really wanted Saadia gone, they would have sent one of their agents (like they did with Ancano in Winterhold).

The Thalmor may be fascist pricks, but they aren't stupid. From the sound of both accounts, Saadia was a major player in Hammerfell politics. The Thalmor wouldn't rely on Alik'r mercenaries to get rid of her, no sir.

Wezmond said:

When I've helped Kematu I've been attacked by a Thalmor execution squad - WITHOUT ANY OTHER PROVOCATION.

Click to expand...

The Thalmor execution squad is a World Interaction random encounter. Like all World Interaction encounters it has absolutely nothing to do with any decisions you make in any quest. Game code doesn't lie. I and many other players have gotten that World Interaction random encounter regardless of who we decided to help and even without doing the quest at all. Citing what's arguably among the worst wiki sites for Elder Scrolls games on the internet doesn't lend any support to the notion.

It's kind of mind boggling that the administrative staff of that site are so ignorant or so lazy or some combination of both that they can't even bother to take a few minutes to look at the events in the Creation Kit to realize how bogus that assertion is and delete it from the article. Sadly that's very consistent with what one can find throughout that website.

Three Dog said:

Kematu. If the Thalmor really wanted Saadia gone, they would have sent one of their agents (like they did with Ancano in Winterhold).

Click to expand...

Ancano wasn't sent to kill anyone. He was sent to spy on the College. For unexplained reasons his status as a Thalmor has allowed him to become "advisor" to the Arch-Mage.

I really really wanted to believe her. I did. But something in my gut felt wrong after speaking to Kematu. I think she was chased out of Hammerfell for the reasons he said, because why would she need to feel afraid in a place that had completely freed itself from Thalmor? Wouldn't she be safer there than fleeing to Skyrim where Elenwen's patrols move freely and do as they please? And if she pissed of the Thalmor, then why aren't the Thalmor after her? They don't need Reguards to do their dirty work in Skyrim. They sure wasted no time coming after the Dragonborn when she/he was searching for Esbern.

On the other hand, if you want to make an argument for helping her: one of their guys is in prison, they are hiding out in a den of thieves and they are harassing every Redguard woman they meet. The Jarls of Skyrim have every right not to tolerate that bullplops.

Still, almost every crooked person in Skyrim has tried to off me after doing their dirty work: Mercer,Jaree-Ra,Astrid,Ancano,Chief Yamarz....Kematu didn't. He paid me and went along his merry way. And if Saadia did what they claim she did, then she needs to be brought to justice. I cannot fault the Alikir for that. A person commits treason of that magnitude, they can expect to pay. Pretty or not.

It's really up to your moral code and your perceptions, but my opinion in that Saadia's pulling your chain.

wolferine said:

How come none of you remember that the prisoner in the dungeon who knows Kematu warns us that he is a killer? COMON NOW! That swayed me to help the girl...if they are on official business from Hammerfell why would they ruthlessly kill outsiders like me? RUTHLESS THUG/MERCENARY/ASSASSIN ALERT.

"if you are looking for Kematu, it means you are going to die"

Click to expand...

Or he's bitter, because he's been dishonored and kicked out and wouldn't mind mucking up their plans. I'm, not saying you're wrong. You could be right. But what these NPCs say should be taken with a grain of salt. Either could be fabricating things.

That's why I love Skyrim.

Also he did not just ruthlessly attack. He gave you the option of walking away.

Dagmar said:

Citing what's arguably among the worst wiki sites for Elder Scrolls games on the internet doesn't lend any support to the notion.

Click to expand...

What's so horrible about it? Obviously there was a flaw in that article but after (sorta obsessively) browsing that and other wikis I've found lots of cool information on Wikia that UESP doesn't even begin to cover. I think this one is better for info about storylines and stuff, and UESP is good for more specific info and stats and stuff, but I don't think this is the worst wiki ever. They all have merits and can be used in different situations.

-Mir- said:

What's so horrible about it? Obviously there was a flaw in that article but after (sorta obsessively) browsing that and other wikis I've found lots of cool information on Wikia that UESP doesn't even begin to cover.

Click to expand...

It's not one article. It's dozens of articles that contain misinformation. The site in general doesn't adhere to basic wiki standards and contains articles with huge chunks of text and narrative that cite to no source or worse, cite to a source that clearly doesn't support what's in the article and in some cases actually refutes what's asserted in the article.

Because the site's standards are what they are it ends up hosting more fabricated, biased and subjective statements in its articles (which often remain even after it's been brought to the attention of the admins) than many wiki sites. It's especially problematic in the lore articles and, almost without fail, whenever I see someone confidently assert misinformation about the game it's citing to that website. As a result a lot of that "cool" information you're finding may not even be true which is why you may not find it at the UESP site. UESP has higher standards, is a better patrolled site and has more knowledgeable admins both from a lore perspective and technical perspective regarding the games. The only time I go to the wikia site is to see if it has bugs reported on it that aren't reported on any of the other sites or to get certain actor ID numbers when I don't have access to the Creation Kit. It's otherwise pretty useless to me and I would never rely on it for lore information.

Dagmar said:

Ancano wasn't sent to kill anyone. He was sent to spy on the College. For unexplained reasons his status as a Thalmor has allowed him to become "advisor" to the Arch-Mage.

Click to expand...

Not my point. Ancano proves that when the Thalmor want something done, they send one of their own to do it.

I agree with deadhand(I think the name is). Don't ruin it for yourself, decide this on your own & when you'be played the hell outa it & are ready for a new character do the other option.


"Hope for everything, expect nothing."

Dagmar said:

It's not one article. It's dozens of articles that contain misinformation. The site in general doesn't adhere to basic wiki standards and contains articles with huge chunks of text and narrative that cite to no source or worse, cite to a source that clearly doesn't support what's in the article and in some cases actually refutes what's asserted in the article.

Because the site's standards are what they are it ends up hosting more fabricated, biased and subjective statements in its articles (which often remain even after it's been brought to the attention of the admins) than many wiki sites. It's especially problematic in the lore articles and, almost without fail, whenever I see someone confidently assert misinformation about the game it's citing to that website. As a result a lot of that "cool" information you're finding may not even be true which is why you may not find it at the UESP site. UESP has higher standards, is a better patrolled site and has more knowledgeable admins both from a lore perspective and technical perspective regarding the games. The only time I go to the wikia site is to see if it has bugs reported on it that aren't reported on any of the other sites or to get certain actor ID numbers when I don't have access to the Creation Kit. It's otherwise pretty useless to me and I would never rely on it for lore information.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree UESP has higher standards and Wikia is a bit more subjective and less professionally written, but I've still found a few things that are more extensive and sourced properly. I do always check with multiple different sources about stuff I'm not sure of though. I also think things on Wikia are organized better, but maybe that's just me.

At least it's not close to as bad as this one: http://skyrim.neoseeker.com/wiki/Nord

Three Dog said:

Not my point. Ancano proves that when the Thalmor want something done, they send one of their own to do it.

Click to expand...

No. Ancano proves that the Thalmor have influence with the College for unknown reasons so in that limited context it makes sense to openly send a Thalmor to pose in a role on their behalf. It wouldn't make sense to send anyone else but ranking Thalmor official to fulfull that role.

With the exception of enforcing the ban on Talos worship under the authority of the White-Gold Concordat, the lore indicates that the Thalmor prefer to operate under the radar outside of their home as they did in setting up both Valenwood and Elsweyr for coups to bring them into the Dominion and the (probable) assassination of Potentate Ocato and Lathenil of Sunhold.

Sending Thalmor to openly interrogate and harass citizens of a province of the Empire in a province of the Empire simply to locate and kidnap a particular citizen for something that has nothing to do with violation of the ban on Talos worship is contrary to the way they've conducted themselves for centuries. Considering that it would also be deemed an arbitrary violation of the Empire's sovereignty it would also be considered a violation of the peace treaty.

Gissur, a Nord, and Shavari, a Khajiit, are outside assets used by the Thalmor so there's nothing inconsistent with using Redguard mercenaries as assets as well.

I mistakenly helped Saadia. Those guys were tough, I just backed up in one of the narrow corridors and killed them all, one by one.

Ok, ok. So... if the guards are clearly not letting the Alik'r into the city, and indeed arresting those who sneak in... why wouldn't Saadia trust them with the information? And saying "Jarls can be bought" - can you honestly see Jarl Balgruuf being paid off by mercenaries? Her story just rings too untrue to me, irrespective of lore. And when you question her on it, she talks to you in an aggressive, patronising way, rather than pleading for her life as a scared person would.

Grob said:

I mistakenly helped Saadia. Those guys were tough, I just backed up in one of the narrow corridors and killed them all, one by one.

Click to expand...

Heheh, I did the same thing. Except I only killed Kematu with my arrow and then hid in the corner and let Lydia and Barbas take care of the rest. Then I looted all their curved swords and left.

tiiBBz said:

The walkthrough is wrong, the best way to complete the quest is to be a devious little s*** =P

agree to help the Alik'r (so you don't have to waste time slaying 8 guys), lead Saadia to the stable then quickly run behind Kematu and go sneak, once Kematu stuns Saadia sneak attack him with your one hander (x6 dam) and finish him, after doing so the quest pops up "Speak to Saadia" tell her "The Alik'r won't bother you anymore, blah blah blah" she thanks you and is happy so gives you 500G then loot Kematu for a further 150G and two nice swords.

All and all, least trouble for max profit, plus you get to see the whole quest!

Click to expand...

I like you. I like you a lot.

Done it both ways. Doesn't really matter. It's up to you and how you want to RP your character and who you believe in game. I think we all know which way my Argo Ba'Meht will go (hint: a pretty face doesn't really work when you're the wrong species and threatening a guy with a REALLY big ax and a loathing of whiny humans isn't the way to go either).

I picked Kematu. His story just sounds more believeable to me.

As a true son of Skyrim who despises the foreign infestation, I basically handed Saadia to the Mercs. You don't have to do that, though. Go with your own moral standards. What do you think your charcater would do?

I really did'nt like The leader of this group . You inguire as to why this woman should be captured and he cops an attitude , and tells you it's none of your business . If im gonna kidnap some one then I feel intitled to know all the details . He died an Quick and clean death .

Remington721 said:

I really did'nt like The leader of this group . You inguire as to why this woman should be captured and he cops an attitude , and tells you it's none of your business . If im gonna kidnap some one then I feel intitled to know all the details . He died an Quick and clean death .

Click to expand...

That wasn't the leader. That was one of his lackies. Who's to say that man too was unsure who to trust? The leader fully and confidently explains himself.

Granted who's telling the truth is hard to say, but personally i believe the warriors over Saadia. Something about her doesn't sit well with me. Though Kematu is kinda snarky, but it's not as unsettling.