Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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OckhamsFolly

Active Member
That sounds good. But know 20 years after the Markarth Incident i think they are very angry at the nords so they cannot live together,

But that means that my character has to leave Markarth. Well i guess i could move to Riften.

Nah. It's not like they were treated much better in the last couple millenia than they allegedly were at the Markarth Incident. I imagine it's just more of the same, and they would still rule as customarily seems right to them.
 

Gunnbjorn

Formerly known as Arillious
Nonsense. The Nedes, ancestors of the Reachmen, were still there first.

Right about the Snow Elves, but you were illegal immigrants, and everyone knows they're bad news.

You sir, are wrong about the Nedes. They are Nord by race, but may not be by custom or religion.

Lore:Nede - UESPWiki

And the Elves killed us before we could get our Green Cards.
 

OckhamsFolly

Active Member
You sir, are wrong about the Nedes. They are Nord by race, but may not be by custom or religion.

Lore:Nede - UESPWiki

And the Elves killed us before we could get our Green Cards.

No no, Nords are NEDES by ancestry, not the other way around. So are Bretons (and Reachmen) and Imperials. It's a proto-race that has since split, and as such cultural and national division comes into consideration. The conflation of Nord with Nede was an error made in an incomplete text, Before the Ages of Man.
 

Gunnbjorn

Formerly known as Arillious
No no, Nords are NEDES by ancestry, not the other way around. So are Bretons (and Reachmen) and Imperials. It's a proto-race that has since split, and as such cultural and national division comes into consideration. The conflation of Nord with Nede was an error made in an incomplete text, Before the Ages of Man.

I was hoping you would stop reading after you saw that bit, carry on.

BUT EITHER WAY - Skyrim belongs to the Nords :)
 

OckhamsFolly

Active Member
I was hoping you would stop reading after you saw that bit, carry on.

BUT EITHER WAY - Skyrim belongs to the Nords :)

Ha! Joke's on you! I already knew that bit because of earlier discussion in this very thread (at least I think it was this thread, it goes all over the place in here)! You can blame Dagmar.

But yeah, I'm sure even the Empire would agree with you on that regarding the Reachmen, too. :D
 

feliciano182

Well-Known Member
I'm sure the Atmorans wouldn't have minded the Snow Elves if they didn't attack us in the first place.

If the "Eye Of Magnus Theory" is correct, and Ysgramor was tampering with a force that was not meant to be handled by mortals, then the snow elves probably attacked with good reason.

Nords are good at many things, except justifying their wars.
 

feliciano182

Well-Known Member
There are a lot of Nords that are good at that, I am just not one of them.

Oh I wasn't talking about you, but about Ulfric, and the Stormcloaks, and the Silver-Bloods, and Ysgramor's companions, and Kodlak's companions.............yeah, pretty much every nord that wages war.
 

Gunnbjorn

Formerly known as Arillious
Oh I wasn't talking about you, but about Ulfric, and the Stormcloaks, and the Silver-Bloods, and Ysgramor's companions, and Kodlak's companions.............yeah, pretty much every nord that wages war.

Well, Ysgramor didn't wage war, he was technically attacked first. He left Atmora for the simple reason of not dealing with war. He did come back and fight after the Elves massacred the migrated Atmorans.
 

feliciano182

Well-Known Member

Yeah, excuse the hyperbole.

But it just seems to me that the wars nords fight are always............dubious at best.

Well, Ysgramor didn't wage war, he was technically attacked first. He left Atmora for the simple reason of not dealing with war. He did come back and fight after the Elves massacred the migrated Atmorans.

While the atmorans were attacked first indeed, there's the likelihood that it happened because they were screwing around with The Eye Of Magnus, so it wasn't completely without reason.

As for Ysgramor and the original companions, they went back to Tamriel precisely to get payback, which they achieved by committing genocide on the entire race.
 

Gunnbjorn

Formerly known as Arillious
Yeah, excuse the hyperbole.

But it just seems to me that the wars nords fight are always............dubious at best.



While the atmorans were attacked first indeed, there's the likelihood that it happened because they were screwing around with The Eye Of Magnus, so it wasn't completely without reason.

As for Ysgramor and the original companions, they went back to Tamriel precisely to get payback, which they achieved by committing genocide on the entire race.

Lore:Eye of Magnus - UESPWiki

Yes, the Nords discovered the Eye of Magnus during the construction of the city Sarthal, and they intended to keep it buried. The Elves found out about the Eye's existence and wanted it themselves. This is why the Elves attacked first, and why the Night of Tears happened. The Nords were able to keep the Eye away from the Elves and it was buried deep below the ground as a result. They weren't "screwing around" with it, they were trying to keep the Elves from coveting it for themselves, they believed nobody deserved it's knowledge.

So the Elves attacked the Nords out of greed, Ysgramor fled, and returned and slaughtered many of the Elves. Revenge may only be half the reason he returned, he may have just been trying to protect the knowledge of the Eye from anyone.

By the way, it wasn't the Nords who committed genocide on the entire race, they killed most of them, but the rest took refuge underground with the Dwemer, and then they began killing them.

To be completely technical, there are still 2 Snow Elves left, I know that the Dragonborn kills one, I forget if the other one survives or not.
 

Ilrita

The Imperial Storm
What are we discussing now? The Nord ancestry, or something bigger than that?
 

OckhamsFolly

Active Member
I think my joke about "Skyrim for the Reachmen" was parlayed by Feliciano as a stepping stone to "Nords fight for the wrong reasons."

While this is probably by and large true, I think it would be accurate to say BOTH sides are fighting for the wrong reasons (usually war is indeed being waged for the wrong reasons). After all, a smarter move by the Empire and Tullius would have been to negotiate with Ulfric on the way to Helgen to arrange for his escape and wage a losing fake war, allowing the Empire to withdraw from Skyrim without arousing suspicion from the Dominion. As a condition of this essential surrender would be the Nords' alliance when the time to face the Dominion.

After all, with Skyrim surrounded by non-Dominion territories, it would be difficult for the Dominion to launch an attack (as I'm sure has been covered to death), and it would allow Skyrim a measure of security while it built its strength. I am sure the Nords would want to engage in a war with the Dominion, and it would certainly work best in an alliance. This way, Skyrim has time to rebuild its strength, doesn't hold as much enmity for the Empire, the Empire doesn't overextend its own resources, and they still work together later.

You'd think the Empire would think of something sneaky like this, too. I'm disappointed, Mede/Tullius. Uriel Septim VII would've known what's up.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Oh so Nords come to Skyrim and slaughter nearly an entire population but the Imperials nearly cut your head off and kill only three other people, you complain... :p
 

Ilrita

The Imperial Storm
It would have been for such a great and cunning war had Tullius secretively joined up with Ulfric and his rebel fraction to take down the Dominion and restore the Empire.

They could have always been attacking each other with insults while they worked together. Would have been funny, at least to me. :D
 

OckhamsFolly

Active Member
It would have been for such a great and cunning war had Tullius secretively joined up with Ulfric and his rebel fraction to take down the Dominion and restore the Empire.

They could have always been attacking each other with insults while they worked together. Would have been funny, at least to me. :D

Everybody in the Empire says ideologically they agree with the rebellion's talking points, but that it's not a practical standpoint right now, the empire needs to conserve it's strength, etc. etc. But there was a way to make it happen, if only they were lateral thinking enough to see it. Lose a little now for the big gain later.

It would've been fun and interesting, and sadly we didn't get it. I suppose it would take away one of the few choices Bethesda presents in the game.
 

Docta Corvina

Well-Known Member
That kind of threat doesn't scare me ;) So go for it. Show us all the screenshots that you have :) I double dog dare you :D

Oooooh, poor, dear, sweet Raijin...I hope you'll remember that you are the one who asked for it when the photos go live. You asked for the scandalous'ness. :p

This weekend should prove interesting. :D
 

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