Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

Rimfaxe96 said:

A question for you, Mage: What could be the reason behind the Thalmor expanding their shipping? Yes they have lots of funds, but why invest them in shipping, especially now that they're about to enter the next war?

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Probably to try and be able to expand the amount of resources they can get their hands on, keeping within only Valenwood, Elsweyr & Summerset might not be enough to fully recover the expenses of preparing for war/recovering from the heavy investment in the Great War. Always could use another industry providing them with the means to field more in battle or keep the economy flowing.

DrunkenMage said:

Rimfaxe96 said:

A question for you, Mage: What could be the reason behind the Thalmor expanding their shipping? Yes they have lots of funds, but why invest them in shipping, especially now that they're about to enter the next war?

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Probably to try and be able to expand the amount of resources they can get their hands on, keeping within only Valenwood, Elsweyr & Summerset might not be enough to fully recover the expenses of preparing for war/recovering from the heavy investment in the Great War. Always could use another industry providing them with the means to field more in battle or keep the economy flowing.

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Hmpf. They're too smart for the Empire's good.

I'll throw my two cents in, let me just read through the discussion so far.

I have to admit, I feel like the game gives you a pro-Stormcloak opening because it needs to balance the board. Maybe just because people may be biased in favour of the Empire because they're in past games?

I did my first Skyrim playthrough without any past TES knowledge, and went with the Empire, but at the start I took the Stormcloaks to be the good-guy freedom fighters fighting a tyrannical government.

I'm glad that the two factions are more developed than that and both promote different social values; diversity and equality with the Empire and freedom of religion and culture with the Stormcloaks.

This thread is old af... I can't belive it's still active hahah

But.. I'm about to drop a fire of a statement to end the discussion thread of all discussion threads..


Are you ready for this?

It's finally decided, the Empire is officially the winner.



This right there is official Elder Scrolls Legends artwork of General Tullius. Needless to say, this man's bada$$ery cannot be defeated by a filthy peasant like Ulfric and his clowns.

The discussion has finally come to an end. Better luck next time Stormcloaks, you tried.

edit; Oh, nearly forgot - no, I do not recommend Elder Scrolls Legends because it's painfully obvious that besides single characters they didn't have a clue what they were drawing (PALE DUNMER. WHY IN OBLIVION WOULD YOU DRAW PALE DUNMER?!!!).

For example this is supposedly a dunmeri "Redoran Enforcer":



Looks more like a bosmer than a dunmer, and to top things off he's wearing Thalmor robes.
I'm desperately hoping that the people who will work on Elder Scrolls VI have more knowledge of TES lore than the people behind this card game, otherwise it'll be a total disaster.

Rimfaxe96 said:

It's finally decided, the Empire is officially the winner.

This right there is official Elder Scrolls Legends artwork of General Tullius. Needless to say, this man's bada$$ery cannot be defeated by a filthy peasant like Ulfric and his clowns.

The discussion has finally come to an end. Better luck next time Stormcloaks, you tried.

edit; Oh, nearly forgot - no, I do not recommend Elder Scrolls Legends because it's painfully obvious that besides single characters they didn't have a clue what they were drawing (PALE DUNMER. WHY IN OBLIVION WOULD YOU DRAW PALE DUNMER?!!!).

For example this is supposedly a dunmeri "Redoran Enforcer":

Looks more like a bosmer than a dunmer, and to top things off he's wearing Thalmor robes.
I'm desperately hoping that the people who will work on Elder Scrolls VI have more knowledge of TES lore than the people behind this card game, otherwise it'll be a total disaster.

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Did you use my method of deciding?

Deadpool. said:

Did you use my method of deciding?

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No, I let epicness guide me.

Rimfaxe96 said:

Deadpool. said:

Did you use my method of deciding?

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No, I let epicness guide me.

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Seems to be your usual deciding method

The way I see it, the stormcloaks probably wouldn't take non-Nords lore-wise, they are fighting to be able to freely worship Talos again, and it's their fault the Thalmor are in skyrim anyway. The empire don't discriminate, and at the end of their questline Tullius says that a war with the thalmor might be next. Personally, my heart belongs with the stormcloaks, but my brain tells me to go imperial.

Posted something on here the other day about trying to prove the epicness thing logically, however ran out of time and let's face it, most people would never understand it anyways.

There is nothing epic about the Empire of Cyrodiil anymore than a mead hall full of drunken-angry Nords, mad at the world. Oh sure, the Stormcloaks are your friends today, until you do something that is against their values. And to be fair, that is what this war is all about for them, while the Imperials being more open-minded have a society that is not properly guarded against the ills of corruption.

And so, you have two different sides, two 'people' with opposite values. No one other than the Dominon has any right to lord over the kingdoms of man and to 'administer' their so called 'rights'.

Therefore, I vote Dominion. The Imperials and Stormcloaks are so polarized that it will just never work again. For me to choose either side in this conflict, would not be same as choosing a 'winner', nay, as they are both losers in the beginning, middle and the end.

While one side in this vain conflict may prevail for whatever reason, I'm afraid it won't be for the right reason and the fighting will continue on like an out of control interstate forest fire until ashes is all that remains of them. But don't worry, don't be sad. The Dominion will be there to pickup the ashes, put an end to the wasteful violence and spending, so hopefully the mistakes of the past won't have to be repeated.

However, if I were to judge each side based on 'epicness', personally I feel that the Empire's stellar treatment of Whiterun was very epic indeed. Make no mistake, this is something that cannot be ignored and I appreciate the Empire conducting itself in a suitable business like manner as opposed to hiding an army in someone else's country and then pretending overtures of peace.

Hmmph. Even the Dominion gave the Empire a chance, even the Thalmor were honest enough to state their intention(s) clearly, openly and giving the former Emperor and his 'Empire' an opportunity to deal with us rationally. This is the mark of a great leader and Gen Tully certainly qualifies as such.

Imperials are open minded so long as it is within their interests. Empire are not the "good" guys by any means. You don't piss them off, not even Ulfric is willing to go that far. He'll fight his rebellion, but he'll stop in his tracks when it could mean drawing Cyrodiil's attention. Their tactics would change from aiding/playing politics with Jarls to burning a Hold to the ground. At the moment they're being quite disinterested, all the Civil War has done to upset the grand scheme of the Empire is just that the Emperor canceled his trip to the province. Wait until it upsets their wallet, or even starts to make nobles talk about it. The Stormcloaks are considered like thugs or bandits to them currently, not a political power yet.

You nudge them enough in a certain direction and they go all out, hell, they're setting up a staging ground into Morrowind "just in case".

DrunkenMage said:

hell, they're setting up a staging ground into Morrowind "just in case".

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Yup - just in case the folks who were massacred by the Baar Dau meteorite smashing into their land, causing earthquakes, floods and Red Mountain to erupt, followed by a great Argonian force wiping out what was left of 'em in the southern half of Morrowind, who can't even send out a single soldier to distanced settlements, would try to intrude on Imperial territory.

DrunkenMage said:

Imperials are open minded so long as it is within their interests. Empire are not the "good" guys by any means. You don't piss them off, not even Ulfric is willing to go that far. He'll fight his rebellion, but he'll stop in his tracks when it could mean drawing Cyrodiil's attention. Their tactics would change from aiding/playing politics with Jarls to burning a Hold to the ground. At the moment they're being quite disinterested, all the Civil War has done to upset the grand scheme of the Empire is just that the Emperor canceled his trip to the province. Wait until it upsets their wallet, or even starts to make nobles talk about it. The Stormcloaks are considered like thugs or bandits to them currently, not a political power yet.

You nudge them enough in a certain direction and they go all out, hell, they're setting up a staging ground into Morrowind "just in case".

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Finished the DC quest line and the main quest line the other day in ESO and the Tharn Empire was everywhere, even in the midst of such chaos the Empire still had a pretty strong reach, even with the loss of so many cities.

I was very impressed at how much trouble they was able to cause, although they had their 'allies' to help back them up of course.

That's a great point about Ulfric and the Emperor too, although you can't blame him for wanting to just focus on Skyrim. That's the one time Ulfric was clearly acting responsibly or was it the fact he knew he couldn't get away with outing the Emperor?

It kinda makes one wonder about something else too, with the way Emperor Mede was assassinated, if you look at the DB Missions leading up to it and pay attn it seems to point directly to the Stormcloaks cause, even though they didn't have anything to do with placing the hit. It makes one wonder about how the fallout from that act will affect Ulfric's kingdom should he become High King.

Cyrodiil would never forgive them and so, a far greater wedge might be driven between Skyrim and Cyrodiil over the DB's actions in fulfilling those contracts.

Skyrim would never see peace and the Thalmor would drop Ulfric and leave him to the Empire as they couldn't be seen supporting someone who everyone 'believes' setup the Emperor's murder, among others in his administration.

Something to think about. I don't see a Stormcloak outcome as being very postive although I do agree with their cause - to a point. Should have stayed on their side of Skyrim, I would have supported them having their own kingdom and any hold who wants to join them. But Whiterun already has freedom of religion and even the Stormcloak supporters say Jarl B has done a great job.

Ulfric screwed up somewhere and all those followers fighting for their conscience are SOL no matter what. *Shakes head in sadness and disgust* Even more so since Gen Tully had said Whiterun could stand outside the Empire if it wanted too and the later on the General allowed Jarl Balgruuf to make his own demands on behalf of the people of Whiterun and so Jarl Ulfric could have dealt in same manner with the Empire to obtain his goals. Ahhh what a twisted web we weave.

I have done both sides and find I like siding with the Empire better.

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Mwhals said:

I have done both sides and find I like siding with the Empire better.

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Can't argue with that.

I chose the Stormcloaks but soon enough regretted it.. They are barbaric and racist without honor.

Decimus said:

The Stormcloaks, with their resolve, dedication and ruthlessness are starting to win me over.

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I don't think the Stormcloaks can win. No matter how dedicated , ruthless, or resolved you are, wars are typically won by numbers. Of course, morale and other factors have to be considered ,but the Empire, numerically speaking, could, and should have crushed the Stormcloaks underfoot. If they dedicated their full strength.

Madrar said:

Decimus said:

The Stormcloaks, with their resolve, dedication and ruthlessness are starting to win me over.

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I don't think the Stormcloaks can win. No matter how dedicated , ruthless, or resolved you are, wars are typically won by numbers. Of course, morale and other factors have to be considered ,but the Empire, numerically speaking, could, and should have crushed the Stormcloaks underfoot. If they dedicated their full strength.

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No doubt.

I just meant that they appeal to some of my personal sensibilities in certain ways... so far.

I'm still in the early phase of dreading picking locks.

Madrar said:

Decimus said:

The Stormcloaks, with their resolve, dedication and ruthlessness are starting to win me over.

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I don't think the Stormcloaks can win. No matter how dedicated , ruthless, or resolved you are, wars are typically won by numbers. Of course, morale and other factors have to be considered ,but the Empire, numerically speaking, could, and should have crushed the Stormcloaks underfoot. If they dedicated their full strength.

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The Empire could reconquer all of Tamriel if they dedicated their full strength with that purpose in mind, problem is just nudging them to do it. Though it wouldn't take much to set them on that path soon if dialogue is anything to go on.