does illusion eat sneak perk tree?

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ronal1

Member
Rules
1-legitimate/normal leveling
2-being practical and functional

Ok so apart from the multipliers, because lets face it, assassin blade is awesome, i see no point in the other side of perk tree.
Perks are kind of cool but not enough to waste a perk point. Shadow warrior is very good for random weak enemies, but in the biggest and strongest i rarely can "sneak attack them" (especially dragons). Also, ITS VERY PAINFUL going all the way to sneak lvl 100 without backstabbing non aggro npc (which is kind lame). Till then, one mistake, whole dungeons hunts you, guess what, no exit option (unless potions which are expsensive to use every single time).

Illusion on the other time, i just have to throw some perks till expert spells and put some magicka points up to 200-220. Everytime i come in town i can courage every damn npc for fast leveling, without misusing the game weaknesses. I had invisibility in about 45min (without gear) of training (and it was not so much boring as backstabbing greybeards to infinity neither a cheat). Now all i have to do, is muffle and invi and boom backstab. TO be fair i have not used it in dragons yet.

I think with illusion you have way more control of your presence. Also free backstabs are available any time-not just at lvl 100. I could easily get invisibility before my first real fights. But getting shadow warrior is very dull and slow before same time, and result of exploit. Then again if you have the perks to spend you can always, use invisibility, till you get access to shadow warrior and use both.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
You could just stop backstabbing everybody, leave them alone and move on with your life. What are you? Psycho????!!!!!

I use them both. Depends on the situation. And both are very useful.
 
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Jurgarik Greycloak

Techno master of Tamriel.
I would say they work well together. Quiet Casting frenzy spells on enemies from stealth and watching the battle unfold then keep that up until there is only one, then finish that person off.

Throw in bound weapons from Conjuration, and you have the best assassin ever.
 

Lady Redpool the Unlifer

Pyro, Spirits Connoisseur, and Soulless Anarchist
I almost completely agree with you. The multipliers side of the tree is excellent, and the first level of the first perk is pretty great. Blowing any more perks on it is wasteful though, and the rest of that side of the tree is pretty worthless. Shadow warrior IS just invisibility that's less versatile.

On the other hand: I love the light step perk, so I don't set off traps that I miss and with the muffled movement perk, any muffled light armor you find will actually provide 100% muffle.

There is a reason to invest in it early on if you feel like it, but going all the way down it(or levelling sneak to ridiculous levels) isn't really worth it.
 

ronal1

Member
Honestly i have tried leveling illusion as a means of stealth for first time, while i have made 10-15 stealth characters. Going just stealth is boring as hell in begin. You are discovered all the time and you have to run 5 damn minutes to be in stealth again.
Other option is to do cheat stuff to go shadow warrior (like backstabbing greybeards)

With illusion, i went in 30 minutes level 75 illusion, got perks and invi spell and i knew, i had at least 2 backstab at each fight (i put some points in magicka). And now my sneak skill is at lvl 85 going soon to 100 without me being paranoid about it.
 

Lady Redpool the Unlifer

Pyro, Spirits Connoisseur, and Soulless Anarchist
Yepp, and what's better, if you do screw up somehow, illusion comes with it's own built in panic button: The Calm Spell.

You got found out because you forgot invisibility ends when you interact with someone? Calm. You Kill someone and their friend finds you? Calm. You ran out of magicka? Well.....run, seriously, just run for your life.
 

Morgan

Well-Known Member
I have to disagree that Sneak is hard to level. This probably has to do with playstyles, but I find that Sneak is almost always my highest-leveled skill, even on characters where it's not the focus (this could simply be because I find the upright bow graphic blocks my view of the target so I always hide to shoot). The fastest way to learn it is to shoot at enemies that are too far away to find you. You'll learn sneak the whole time they're searching. The best place for this is the giant altar at Guldun Rock (it's far enough from the giant camp that you don't have to fight them). Hide up there and lob arrows at the bandits at Valtheim Towers. Even if they see you, they have to run all the way up the road to path to you, and when they are out of sight for a few seconds they forget about you and trudge back.
 

ronal1

Member
See? " Also, ITS VERY PAINFUL going all the way to sneak lvl 100 without backstabbing non aggro npc (which is kind lame). Till then, one mistake, whole dungeons hunts you, guess what, no exit option (unless potions which are expsensive to use every single time)."

With bows its relatively easy. But what if i am not an archer. I have no "o plops button" i have to run all the way and wait 5 mins for it to make me sneaky again.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
See? " Also, ITS VERY PAINFUL going all the way to sneak lvl 100 without backstabbing non aggro npc (which is kind lame). Till then, one mistake, whole dungeons hunts you, guess what, no exit option (unless potions which are expsensive to use every single time)."

With bows its relatively easy. But what if i am not an archer. I have no "o pl*** button" i have to run all the way and wait 5 mins for it to make me sneaky again.
I have to disagree. It's not hard at all to get to 100 in sneak w/out killing innocents. I've done it many times.

Sure it's easier to do with archery, but, sneaking up on drauger, bandits and wildlife isn't hard at all (generally - Trolls are my favorite although they've got amazing senses).

I'll admit that I generally carry around a bunch of invisibility potions (they're easy to make if you know how with readily available ingredients) until I get the spell and muffle and just go to work.

I'm surprised you have so much trouble. Of all things in Skyrim sneak has got to be the easiest thing to do and to level (okay, outside of lockpicking).

I have never played a character who kills innocents, ever. I also do not steal, except during the TG questlines and even then I never pick-pocket, ever. And yet, I sneak all the time. Hmm...
 

Papoy

DON'T EXPECT SPOILER WARNINGS FROM ME
All this talk about boosting sneak, why dont you just level it..... gradualy? It becomes easier with muffle ench for which you can get right away from DB.

Pickpocketing is the easiest to level, hands down. I tried it once and no need to try it again. To lvl 100 in about 2h of gameplay. Just rob whole Riverwood and Whiterun.

I find myself ALLWAYS going for EVERY perk in sneak tree. There are many reasons:
1) JUST sneak works, JUST illusion works, BOTH are master of disaster!
2) silent roll speeds up that slow-paced playstyle.
3) i dont have to worry about triggering traps.
4) can run as long as im not in their view.
These mostly serve to speed up your advancing through dungs.

Shadow Worrior is one of my favorite perks. NO, its NOT JUST short duration invisibility. All enemies close to you will lose sight of you when you crouch, meaning crouch-sneak attack combo. One devastates almost everyone, even higher lvl enemies (plunderers, falmer shadowmasters etc). Altough i actualy find this one to be "supportive" perk. With both illusion and sneak you likely wont get detected and youve got buffs and asspuls to get you out of truble.

(Dragons ofc are exception. Theybare not meant to be manipulated or backstabbed. They are assassins ultimate enemy.)

So, basicly this is how i go about assassins. All perks in Sneak and Illusion, 9 in one-handed, (never menaged to get archery to 80 but i invest some perks if i can) and rest by choice. 200 stamina, 200-250 magica, rest in HP.
 

ronal1

Member
Ok, i will explain myself. I had a paranoia to play at legendary from level 1 and a bandit leader would need like 100 sneaky arrows to die. Therefore in such scenario, shadow warrior is a must, (else u get one shotted), but in normal difficulty which i start to think is the most fun, you can level up stealth more comfortable, since even if u get detected, u dont get slaughtered.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
While the challenge of Legendary is a great experience (kind of like Survival in Fallout 4), personally, I rarely play on the outrageous difficulties any longer. It's just not worth it.

I've truly come to loathe how Beth does this. You do x times less damage, they do x times more damage, etc...

For me, it makes it very difficult to actually RP. Why would a wolf be able to one-shot me? Sure, maybe a Deathlord Archer, but a skeever?

And talk about damage sponges.

I've killed a few animals (and that's all I'll admit to) in my day and, with the right preparation, you can take most out with a couple of uses of your weapon, not 200 slashes with your dagger while avoiding their teeth.

Sheesh.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
Exactly, it doesnt add fun when tigers one shot you out of nowhere.
Not that sabre cats don't do that on novice mode anyhow when you're low level. I can't tell you how many times... :)
 

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