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Balomew

Active Member
I don't think you're quite understanding what I'm explaining, Gidian. To the character, the character and his or her motives are not good nor evil: they just are, and they are often justified to said character. I am not saying that a psychotic killer of children is not evil to others; I am saying that a psychotic killer does not realize that s/he is a psychotic killer and that what s/he does is wrong. Does a child think that throwing a tantrum is wrong? Does a revenge killer believe that his act of vengeance was evil? No. It doesn't matter what others think they it comes to a character's motives and actions in the eyes of the character: to the character, it only matters what the character thinks of what the character does. Thus, whatever the character does is justified in the eyes of the character. Other's thoughts don't directly change the feelings of the character in question. I think you're taking our reasoning and examples far too literally.

As for hershangames's character, other characters don't need to like his or her character in order for his or her character to exist. However, you have a very good point. Many characters reproach "evil" acts, and as you've said, actions speak louder than words. Characters care about their personal opinions and reasoning above all other's input. I think that what hershangames is trying to say is that, yes, the acts are evil, but the character doesn't perceive them as so because perspective changes everything
 

The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass

Sahrot Vahlok Spaan. Bahnahgaar. Minion #88!
Staff member
I don't think you're quite understanding what I'm explaining, Gidian. To the character, the character and his or her motives are not good nor evil: they just are, and they are often justified to said character. I am not saying that a psychotic killer of children is not evil to others; I am saying that a psychotic killer does not realize that s/he is a psychotic killer and that what s/he does is wrong. Does a child think that throwing a tantrum is wrong? Does a revenge killer believe that his act of vengeance was evil? No. It doesn't matter what others think they it comes to a character's motives and actions in the eyes of the character: to the character, it only matters what the character thinks of what the character does. Thus, whatever the character does is justified in the eyes of the character. Other's thoughts don't directly change the feelings of the character in question. I think you're taking our reasoning and examples far too literally.

As for hershangames's character, other characters don't need to like his or her character in order for his or her character to exist. However, you have a very good point. Many characters reproach "evil" acts, and as you've said, actions speak louder than words. Characters care about their personal opinions and reasoning above all other's input. I think that what hershangames is trying to say is that, yes, the acts are evil, but the character doesn't perceive them as so because perspective changes everything
Firstly, I would like to say that I appreciate that you are willing to take the time to try and explain things to me. I would also like to apologize in advance if the following seems abrasive or aggressive, as I tend to come off as extremely condescending even when I'm not trying to be...

That being said, one of my biggest pet peeves is redundancy. I HATE redundant things. And your comment was redundant to me (although I don't hate it), as I already understand what you were explaining, and that's why I didn't direct a comment at you. I'm a literal person, granted. But I'm not taking them seriously as much as I am nitpicking out of boredom.

Many psychopaths and such do in fact understand what they are doing is wrong. The biggest example is referring to the Nazi Regime, where despite their strength in their beliefs and convictions, they still tried to cover up their acts and keep them secret for as long as possible. So there are points on both sides, depending on the specific case in question.

I perfectly understand the reasoning and logic behind "moral greys" and different perspectives. I acknowledge them and concede them. However there are quite a few blanket assumptions in your point there. One being that a child thinks through a tantrum at all. I know that when I was a kid I didn't think of the consequences, I just did things. And not everyone thinks their revenge killing is "good", another example which depends on the context of who exactly is being examined.

And a huge driving force behind many people's actions is what other people think of them. MANY people's justifications are based on others. This is societal fact.

Perspective changes everything for the individual. It changes nothing for everyone else.

For the most part the point in what I'm trying to say is that I spotted some generalizations and I just so happened to be bored enough to start a debate over them.
 

The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass

Sahrot Vahlok Spaan. Bahnahgaar. Minion #88!
Staff member
This is massively off topic, I apologize. If you would like to continue this (I don't advice indulging my bad habits), please continue it with me in an appropriate thread or a PM.

Thank you :D
 

The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass

Sahrot Vahlok Spaan. Bahnahgaar. Minion #88!
Staff member
You can tag me by putting the @ sign in front of my username if you go to another thread.
 

hershangames

Well-Known Member
Well, actually, this seems like a pretty interesting debate. Although it dies seem to be running out of debate.

Oh, and by the way @Balomew, I not only meant that my character doesn't find it evil, I too don't find it evil. When you are aiming so high , you'll have to be ready for anything, whether you like it or not

Oh man, I went off topic inside an off topic, way to go.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 

The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass

Sahrot Vahlok Spaan. Bahnahgaar. Minion #88!
Staff member
Well, actually, this seems like a pretty interesting debate. Although it dies seem to be running out of debate.

Oh, and by the way @Balomew, I not only meant that my character doesn't find it evil, I too don't find it evil. When you are aiming so high , you'll have to be ready for anything, whether you like it or not

Oh man, I went off topic inside an off topic, way to go.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
By this point, just embrace it:p

I prefer a hybrid between the two. Someone who can sneak, but when it comes down to it can hold their own due to superior skill and planning.
 

Seanu Reaves

The Shogun of Gaming
But in theory most assassins can fight directly. And prefer to sneak. Planning is defiantly the assassin's domain in the interpersonal level.

The smart warrior is often the leader type. So the strategy falls to a greater scale. Though the labels only describe tactics but even then can seem inaccurate. As assassin has been used as a term beyond its original meaning.
 

hershangames

Well-Known Member
True. An assassin can now mean a person who kills important people, someone who stealth kills people or someone who kills for money.

And though it is true that there can be leading warriors who are really smart and plan good tactics, little can they do about rogues, since rogues speciality is to attack when no one expects an attack to be performed.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 

Balomew

Active Member
That being said, hershangames, the term "rogue" is also (so I've been told) controversial. I've been told that a rogue is someone that avoids violence and seeks wealth. Terms like these are so open to discussion that I doubt that there's a consensual definition.
 

Seanu Reaves

The Shogun of Gaming
Personally I associate rogue with a sneaky person. The avoiding violence and wanting wealth is the Thief. A subset of rogue. Rogues to me are more of the seedy underground type. Ranging from the lowest of thugs to the most skilled gentleman thieves.
 

Dabiene Caristiana

Your friendly neighborhood weirdo
Fighter how is this even an argument

Sent from my NX785QC8G using Tapatalk

... It's not even an argument. It's a discussion. Which is explained thoroughly throughout the thread:

-playstyle
-situation
-various subclasses such as Paladin, Berserker, Illusion Assassin, etc.

As for my input, ^ that's pretty much it. Depends on playstyle and situation. And a tad bit of roleplay ;)
 

Balomew

Active Member
What Dabiene said. This is an open discussion, not a quarry of disagreements. The "answer" to the OP's question is defined by each member's personal preference. Member A might like assassins for one reason, and Member B might like fights for their own reason. Their reasoning and musings are what helps the OP decide on which class to go with. State your reasons and, if you don't want to step out before the water gets rough, prepare to defend your opinion. It's not arguing, it's having a polite, intelligent, and driven conversation. It mostly depends on the member - and the character.
 

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