Solitude vs all holds, clear differences

Let's face it, Solitude and the other holds are just a metaphor if the 1st and 3rd world.

Let's pick for example dawnstar, a city so small it can be hard to find without the map. Their economy is based on minery, and they just sell the ore to richer places. Plus, the city is constantly attacked by dragons and it's so dangerous you will never see a kid in the "street" (more like piece if snow between the houses).

Now let's pick Solitude, a city so big you can get lost at times. Their economy is based on services, and snob ones at it(fine clothes, perfumes...) Inns are so big I had a hard time finding my room the first time, and a room is big enough for an family if giants to live in it, not to mention the closets, shelfs and other furniture you'd lose your salary for in IKEA. The streets are all clean, full of fruit bushes and cult people, with NO snow (that really is Important to me).

How can people withstand such class differences?

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That sort of illustrates the differences between the Empire and Stormcloak supporters. Some jarls support the Empire. They want to form better relations with other nations and progress beyond the muck and establish a better quality of life for their people so that, essentially, they can all have their own little piece of Solitude.

Others see supporting the Empire as giving up your long standing traditions in exchange for gold and fancy mansions and inviting foreigners who don't understand your culture to come and live alongside you.

It's not really about class issues. Skyrim is a harsh, unforgiving landscape and it takes a lot of strength and character to survive and scrape up an existence in the cold and dirt, that's why I think a lot of Nords are proud of to call it their home, and are reluctant to make sacrifices to a foreign Empire for the sake of living in luxury.

sticky runes said:

That sort of illustrates the differences between the Empire and Stormcloak supporters.

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This. One of Ulfric's major issues is that Skyrim's leaders have been seduced by Imperial gold for too long, making them the Empire's puppets instead of true leaders. Solitude's affluency in comparison to the relative poverty of the rest of Skyrim is evidence of this.

Seduced by imperial civilization would be more accurate. It's not so much as money, but civilization.
For example, there's a lot of money in whiterun and still everybidy's armed and there are beggars around.
In solitude only soldiers carry weapons, and the only beggar there is is actually nice.

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Solitude isn't simply "rich" due to the Empire, it is one of the largest ports in Skyrim. The docks are given natural shelter from the Sea of Ghosts and the climate isn't too bad. It has also been the seat of the High King for hundreds of years, and the Jarls would pay tribute

Winterhold once rivaled Solitude in terms of size, power and wealth.

Solitude didn't become the strongest and wealthiest over night. The rulers of Haafingar did plenty of political things to expand their influence and wealth, even beating the Imperial City and Septim Dynasty in several politicial instances when they annexed fiefdoms that directly belonged to the Emperor or when King Thian married Queen Macalla of Dawnstar to expand Haafingar.

You have to take into account the political changes that have happened over the years.

Riften was extremely wealthy, being a major hub of trade into Cyrodiil and Morrowind. Until Morrowind suffered great disaster and Riften was burned to the ground in an uprising against the Jarl.

The Empire did make all of the Holds wealthy over the Eras due to free trade, and resources that were given. Though how each Hold rose or fall depended on the Jarl.

Solitude is wealthy and powerful because they had skilled rulers, who sought to make their holdings better, used their money on updating their city to compete and expand what created money for them.

The Old Holds are fairly poor either due to issues that arose in the last two hundred years, or due to the fact many of the cities never really had great leaders.

It isn't "Empire gives us gold" it is "How we use the Empire's gold".

Hadn't thought it that way, but I guess it's true. With some proper management all cities could be like Solitude. Except winterhold, they were just unlucky.
Although, If you think about it, if most nords didn't hate magic that much, winterhold could grow again.
People could go there to ask for help in matters that involved magic, and local commerce and inns could benefit a lot from all those travelers. With that money increment, they could rebuild the city and expand it, which in turn would make more people want to go there.

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hershangames said:

Hadn't thought it that way, but I guess it's true. With some proper management all cities could be like Solitude. Except winterhold, they were just unlucky.
Although, If you think about it, if most nords didn't hate magic that much, winterhold could grow again.
People could go there to ask for help in matters that involved magic, and local commerce and inns could benefit a lot from all those travelers. With that money increment, they could rebuild the city and expand it, which in turn would make more people want to go there.

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Winterhold has plans to rebuild if the Empire take over. The new Jarl hopes to repair relations with the Mages and rebuild the city with the help of the Empire.

All of that wealth and not a single smelter

DrunkenMage said:

Winterhold has plans to rebuild if the Empire take over. The new Jarl hopes to repair relations with the Mages and rebuild the city with the help of the Empire.

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Does that mean that if you join the empire and finish the questline, winterhold changes?

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hershangames said:

Does that mean that if you join the empire and finish the questline, winterhold changes?

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No. Nothing changes besides soldiers/Jarls.

Skyrim doesn't advance beyond 4E 201.

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hershangames said:

Solitude, a city so big you can get lost at times.

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I....think you might want to go easy on the skooma, friend

Yeah I think the wabajack's geting to me

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Of all the other holds, it seems that Windhelm is the only one that can even compete with the level of urbanization that solitude has and even then Solitude is far more advanced. Perhaps this is to illustrate the split nature of Skyrim and the leaders of the civil war.


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Absolutely, I mean, Solitude is like a whole new world. It's like you're miles/kilometers away from Skyrim.

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Windhelm reflects its inhabitants - stone cold and imposing. It's guarded by a force of soldiers who practically worship Ulfric Stormcloak, and the first thing you see when you enter Windhelm is a pair of Nords bullying a dark elf who they accuse of being an imperial spy.

Solitude is a very pretty city, with its fancy stained glass windows. It's also in a warmer part of skyrim so you see lots of plants and flowers growing in the streets. Yet the first thing you see when you enter Solitude is a man being executed for honoring a Nord tradition by letting Ulfric Stormcloak walk free after killing the high king. This city hasn't clung to the old nord traditions the way Windhelm has. Roggvir's sister says you're a true nord if you sympathize for her loss instead of condemning Roggvir as a traitor. Even Elisif asks you to make an offering to Talos on the sly, as his worship has been outlawed in Solitude. It may be a city of art and high culture and fashion, but there is a darkness to it, like the priest says.