Thrall Thread : Living with the dead

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JayW

Active Member
My Volkihar Cathedral stable did get a bit out of hand but they all have their uses.

The boss thralls are the most useful and fun to have around but it's a pain collecting them before they pass level 40. In order to capture Vythur or General Falx Carius or Kematu you need to manage what skills you level up and when. Getting conjuration to 100 is easy though. Just head to College of Winterhold early on and use the forge to make soul trap.Enchanting is probably next most important so that you have enough spell reduction to cast dead thrall (though Elseweyr Fondue can be helpful as well). The Duping Glitch (requires a follower) and or the Dawnstar Invisible Chest are best for raising this one. After that you should be level 25 or less still. With super enchanting you can keep capped thralls long after they pass the cap though it makes fights one sided.

All of my thralls are either bosses, named mini bosses or interesting NPCs (those that take spectral form / throw spiders / use shouts / have unique summons ….). The only generic Thralls I keep are the Dremora. You can't thrall them after they pass Markynaz but they're fun to fight when they respawn (alongside Volkihar cathedral's Gargoyles that respawn in the presence of hostiles).

My favourite thrall is the Werebear though. He is supposed to be a once a day summon but with Resto Loop Alchemy you can make him permanent. Don't want him around for a while and you can just dispel him. He tears through bandit camps and does't aggro other thralls (like mages do). The Dragon Priest summon from kohnarik is cool but he's so slow that I usually ditch him.

At the moment I'm running with 4 pet dogs - the Lord of the Hunt. The two dogs from Castle Volkihar can be anchored like any NPC and raised with the Staff of Dread Zombie (permanently with Resto Loop Conjuration potions). Meeko or one of the Huskies from the Dawnguard and Barbus roundoff the pack. When the Volkihar Dogs get killed (which happens all the time because they're so low level though potions can help) then I summon the werebear and go Beast Form to exact my vengeance. The dogs are pretty useful though - Barbas is essential so if he becomes the target's main enemy then the other dogs are free to tear the prey apart.

After some messing around with the Staff of Dread Zombie it became quickly apparent that it doesn't work with most monsters but it does work with dogs. For some reason the staff does not use the same spell as Dread Zombie which can raise creatures like gargoyles and werewolves. Resto Loop boosted Conjuration Spells can be used to make these creatures permanent thralls but they still turn to ash after they die (which creatures raised by the staff do not).

I hope the next elder scrolls has an endgame perk that lifts the level cap on thralls entirely - something that can only be activated when you go legendary with your skills or the level cap and which isn't restricted to human NPCs (like Dead Thrall).

Good news about Bethesda taking a stall at E3 - it should mean a new Fallout game to move onto after Skyrim (which I still find fun even if I take extended breaks every now and again).
 

JayW

Active Member
I was wondering whether anyone had any tips for custom thralls… followers that can be equipped in whatever armour I choose before sacrificing them to the Ebony Blade and thralling them.

I generally don't like spell casting thralls because they aggravate other thralls / followers / pets with their explosions.

I thought Janessa and Stenvar would be good because they hit the level cap of 40 and they specialise in skills that can be exploited. I want to put Stenvar (2H / Heavy Armour) in Ancient Nord Armour and give him a giants club (my very own draugr). Jannessa is a specialist archer and being a Dark Elf I though some Morag Tong / Chitin Plate / Improved Bonemold Armour might suit her.

Does anyone have any ideas for themed thralls / followers? I was thinking of duping Cicero's outfit and creating a travelling circus.
 

The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass

Sahrot Vahlok Spaan. Bahnahgaar. Minion #88!
Staff member
Followers will revert to their default gear after a loading screen.
 

Adam Warlock

Well-Known Member
Followers will revert to their default gear after a loading screen.

Yeah , you need to use the Mind Control Spiders if you want to customize a dead follower or npc thrall.
I currently have Sven in a full set of heavy Stalhrim .
Sapphire has been converted from thieves gear to Nightingale.
Stenvar was given a Giant`s Club before he died and it remains with him.

My best results have been to SAVE(return if unsuccessful)

a.Remove all items which appear in corpse inventory (except for anchor item in case of non-permanent body)

b. throw a mind spider(i have better results using two spiders) on the corpse

c. raise corpse with Dead Thrall.

d. test to see if thrall enters in/out sneak or combat mode when you do.
If so , they will now wear different armor and even rings and necklaces.
If not , return to save.
There may be any number of npc who can`t be "controlled" as a thrall. I can`t get Telrav or Illia to respond despite numerous efforts.
Helps if you dupe some spiders since the supply so limited

Dress Jenassa in either Morag Tong or Dark Brotherhood.
Dress Vampire victims as vampires.
Disguise vampires as Dawnguard or Vigilants of Stendarr.
Daedric Armor for Velekh Sain?
 
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T. Rakinson

A Brute among Beasts
I'm new to thralling. Tell me, does dead thrall work on the following (assuming they are within level boundaries):

-Dremora
-Draugr
-Spriggans
-Falmer (betrayed and Vythur)

Thralling sounds like real fun! I always loved the Ritual Stone and Soul Tear shout, but perma-zombies are something Iv'e yet to explore.
 

Adam Warlock

Well-Known Member
I'm new to thralling. Tell me, does dead thrall work on the following (assuming they are within level boundaries):

-Dremora
-Draugr
-Spriggans
-Falmer (betrayed and Vythur)

Thralling sounds like real fun! I always loved the Ritual Stone and Soul Tear shout, but perma-zombies are something Iv'e yet to explore.
Dead Thrall works on dremora except for those that are Valkynaz level. For this purpose Dremora are considered people .
Dead Thrall does not work on spriggans , draugr , or Falmer which are considered creatures.
Dead Thrall will work on the Snow Elf , Vyrthur , IF you do so before he exceeds level 40 cap for the spell .
 

T. Rakinson

A Brute among Beasts
Thank you for this, Adam. I'll keep you updated.
I'm new to thralling. Tell me, does dead thrall work on the following (assuming they are within level boundaries):

-Dremora
-Draugr
-Spriggans
-Falmer (betrayed and Vythur)

Thralling sounds like real fun! I always loved the Ritual Stone and Soul Tear shout, but perma-zombies are something Iv'e yet to explore.
Dead Thrall works on dremora except for those that are Valkynaz level. For this purpose Dremora are considered people .
Dead Thrall does not work on spriggans , draugr , or Falmer which are considered creatures.
Dead Thrall will work on the Snow Elf , Vyrthur , IF you do so before he exceeds level 40 cap for the spell .
Shame. No Deathlord bodyguards for Mogrog...:sadface:
 

JayW

Active Member
A couple of points are worth noting on the potential thrall categories.

Dead Thralls can only be human and can only be made thralls when they are below level 40 (or 50 if they are Vampires and you have Necromage).

Dread Zombies can expand the list of possible thralls to certain creatures. For some reason the Staff of Dread Zombie and the spell are not the same. The spell works on more creatures (gargoyles and werewolves for instance) but the spell ends in the creature turning into ash when it wears off. The staff can be used again and again without the creature turning into ash. Both the spell and the staff can be made to work indefinitely with the resto loop boosted potions of fortify conjuration.

On the Dremora front, there are a couple of different types of Dremora that can be made into thralls. There are the melee ones that you can pick up from the Mehrunes Razor Quest or the attronach forge and there are spell casting ones that can be obtained on the Azura's Star quest. These can be made into dead thralls up to level 46 at which point they become too powerful to thrall - Markynaz are level 36 and can be thralled, Valkynaz are level 46 and cannot be but Valkynaz only start to appear when you are level 46. While you cannot dead thrall dremora after level 46, you can still summon Dremora Valkynaz using the Sanguine Rose. The Sanguine Rose summons levelled Dremora including Valkynaz but they cannot be used as dead thralls (no storage lockers). If you have Dead Thralls and know the duping trick then so long as your character is over 46 and has several copies of the Sanguine Rose then you, your thralls and any followers you have can all summon Dremora Valkynaz (it's a bit overkill but fun for certain situations - I did this with all my followers, my thralls and the Blades just to see how many Dremora I could get at one time - the closest thing to a console dremora army).

Spriggans can be turned into permanent thralls using the Staff of Dread Zombie and some Resto Loop Fortify Conjuration potions. The Resto Loop increases the power of potions and the fortify conjuration effect governs the length of time a thrall is resurrected for. The Staff of Dread Zombie 60 seconds can be extended to months using the Reso Loop. Dread Zombie affects all creatures up to level 30. I'm not sure if it includes level 30 or not (an I recently deleted all my characters and started again so I can't test it) but that means that it should affect all Spriggans up to and maybe including Earth Mothers.

Draugr Deathlords are minimum level 30 and scale beyond this. They are not human anymore which means dead thrall does not work on them. I'm not sure if you were to thrall one (maybe with the staff) and then level up whether it would level up alongside you but it might be possible to get a permanent one with some great effort. I doubt it would be worth the bother though. Mind Control Spirders and the Ritual Stone can turn Draugr into temporary allies and these are much more easy to exploit. Resto Loop Illusion Spells can also work on Draugr of all levels with the right perks. The Resto Loop Fortify Illusion spells increase the level of enemies affected by your illusion spells and there is a perk that allows Draugr to be affected by illusion. While most Illusion spells are too weak to affect say Dragon Priests the Resto Loop raises the bar and lets you affect pretty much any creature. You can essentially get Dwarven Centurions to do your bidding if you so choose (these are not affected by any conjuration spells or mind control spiders).

Vyrthur is available up to level 34 normally - his level is 1.2x your level so he hits 40 when you are 34. He can level up to 75. so if you thrall him early and keep on levelling without him dying then he becomes powerful enough to look after himself. He will die if you thrall or summon more than one other creature - which is irritating. If you are a Necreomage Vampire (a vampire with the Necromage Perk from the Restoration school - this makes your dead thrall spell affect vampires 25% more powerful than usual and Vyrthur is a vampire) then you can dead thrall him up to level 42. With Resto Loop Enchantments on his armour (fortify health) he becomes unkillable by any creature other than yourself.

I would split thralls into 4 categories - Dead Thralls (level 40 / dead human NPCs), Reanimations (level 30 humans or creatures - turn to ash when timer runs out), Dread Zombie Staff Creatures (some Creatures but not monsters - no gargoyles / werewolves …do not turn into ash) and finally Summons (Atronachs, Seekers, Ash Spawn, Wrathmen, Dremora Lords, the Werebear, the Konahrik Dragon Priest…) - these can all be made permanent with the Resto Loop. The Ritual Stone and Mind Control Spiders are the next rung and affect much more powerful creatures. Finally Illusion can be used to make enemies do you bidding. Depending on the situation you can get most creatures to do what you want in one way or another but different creatures require different techniques and not all techniques are as useful as others (Dead Thrall is by far the best). I'm also partial to having a were bear follower (resto loop enhanced) but more for fun than any practical reason (he's tough but there are tougher Dead thralls).
 
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Manmangler

Well-Known Member
Jeez this game magic make me sick. Its just useless when you get levels high enough. I try death trall and harmony yesterday when I played No one escape from Cidna mine. everyone is just too powerfull, my PC is 183 level :) Is there any mod that allow MAGIC users to play high levels.
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
Currently trying to troubleshoot new ways of relieving thralls from Broken Oar. It is my determination to find a way without needing shouts. All attempts with the spell Paralyze have proven unsuccessful, and next I'll be trying out a Staff of Paralysis. I realize shouts are easy enough to acquire, especially Unrelenting Force, however, it would be very nice to drive to the root of this inconsistency. Currently my working theory is that Unrelenting Force is not a spell, and so knocking one over brings about a different recovery script or sequence... Hopefully I'll be uncovering something nice soon.
 

Dr.Madness

Overlord of the Void
Hello! It's been awhile been I really want to share this fantastic new mod (for fellow PC players). It adds a new branch to the Conjuration Tree. The perks do all sorts of new things such as:


- Increase Summon/Thrall count up to 100.

- Access to Blood, Plague, and Death magic which are like Restoration/Alteration, Damage over Time, and Destruction respectively.

- Increase the health, magicka, stamina, as well as the Speed and Skills of your thralls/zombies.

- Grant access to the myriad of new summons.

- Steal the souls of enemies to power up certain spells

- Access to your own Necromancer themed lair, once you kill the undead inhabitants that is.

Additional Summons Include:

I. Lich: A reskinned Dragon Priest that drains health and paralyzes its enemies as well as summoning its own permanent skeleton minions. (Expert Level)

II. Death Knight: A powerful Draugr melee combatant. (Expert Level)

III. Ice Mage: Essentially your own Draugr Scourge (A melee combatant that casts frostbite, ice spike, and conjure frost atronach.) (Adept Level)


There are more summons, but I just listed my favorite ones. There is a spell merchant in the Riften Graveyard that sells the spells (The Graveyard is the place with the secret entrance to the Thieves Guild HQ). I'm really happy I discovered this Mod, playing on the PC is so much more fun than on Consoles (Mods are the only reason I play Skyrim on my PC much more than on my Xbox).

Here is the link to it:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=54165035&searchtext=Ultimate Necromancy
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
Update on my trials:

There seems to be no way to propel a live body on to the ledge without Unrelenting Force. I'm open to suggestions, but I'm quite certain I've exhausted all possibilities... Really wishing Telekinesis could be tricked into working on NPCs. All well. I suppose I should happy. After all, there is at least one way to do it, opposed to no way at all.

edit:

In other news, I've found Illia! I've found her finally! Despite having parted with her in Whiterun, I discovered her walking the NW road to Markarth. Unfortunately it is true you cannot recruit her again, it is in my best interest to enthrall her. My body collection for my level 40 Dunmer Vampiric Necromage is slowly gaining size. Right now I am in the process of revisiting my testing with Alcantar. To recall my disappointment last with Alcantar, I'd set out to eventually try to have him enthralled, finish Speaking with Silence, and then find out if he may remain permanent. It's a long shot, I know.

Honestly I just can't get over how happy I am to have finally found Illia... Hopefully Ardwen will show up now. I finished Blessings of Nature ages ago, and still no sign of her...
 
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Kohlar the Unkilled

Time for some ale
I intend to thrall Falx Carius, but what level must I be to accomplish that? This is my first foray into necromancy as a serious art. At this point, I really have no idea what I'm doing. My first actual quest is the Markarth Foresworn quest. A Breton, who made her way to Markarth, finds herself caught up in the conspiracy. Any advice?? I'm about to get Molag Bal's mace if I can survive the mission. :beermug: I would've stared a new thread, but by the looks of things that would've been redundant.
 

Hala

Member
I intend to thrall Falx Carius, but what level must I be to accomplish that? This is my first foray into necromancy as a serious art. At this point, I really have no idea what I'm doing. My first actual quest is the Markarth Foresworn quest. A Breton, who made her way to Markarth, finds herself caught up in the conspiracy. Any advice?? I'm about to get Molag Bal's mace if I can survive the mission. :beermug: I would've stared a new thread, but by the looks of things that would've been redundant.
Sweet zone is any level BEFORE Level 33 as most bosses are PlayerLevelx1.2. Then he'd just be under the Level 40 cap. Beyond Level 33 you won't be able to thrall him anymore, save for a Ritual Stone effect.

Vampire necromages can thrall boss vampires (ie. Vyrthur) til Level 42. Despite that, I regret passing Level 33 almost everyday :D
 

Adam Warlock

Well-Known Member
I intend to thrall Falx Carius, but what level must I be to accomplish that? This is my first foray into necromancy as a serious art. At this point, I really have no idea what I'm doing. My first actual quest is the Markarth Foresworn quest. A Breton, who made her way to Markarth, finds herself caught up in the conspiracy. Any advice?? I'm about to get Molag Bal's mace if I can survive the mission. :beermug: I would've stared a new thread, but by the looks of things that would've been redundant.
Falx scales at a whopping rate of 1.5 x the Dragonborn.
At your level of 26 , he would be level 39 and under the cap.
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
Falx scales at a whopping rate of 1.5 x the Dragonborn.
At your level of 26 , he would be level 39 and under the cap.

The only other I know of at 1.5 is Erandur... I was wondering If he was the only one.

In my opinion, Kohlar, the most important levels for Dead Thrall (as far as stunted builds are concerned) are 34, 37, and 40. One might argue in favor of a 26 and 32 build too, but honestly, like 1.5s, 1.25s are also quite rare. Erandur's two buddies in Nightcaller are 1.25s, and so is Savos. On the other hand, 1.2s include Ulfric and Tullius. For this reason, I'd value a level 34 build over a 32. Savos is really a pain. You only have one chance to equip him (because you can't open his inventory,) and while his Dremora is pretty sexy... Ah, what am I saying? His Demora is really sexy! I'm not 100% sure when named vampires turn Master, but I know for certain 34 s a fantastic level to acquire guys like Piquine, and Vighar. Unfortunately level 40 is too late to nab these guys. (I don't know if 37 is too.)

Now 1.1s are quite common. They include most all the Race-Named generic NPCs and Fjola. 'Course, 37 is probably even better than a 40 build for this reason; however, I haven't made one to these specs yet. All around, a level 40 is the juiciest, in my experience.

You may not get to make full use of your skill trees with these stunted builds, but they're definitely a rip-roaring time.
 

Adam Warlock

Well-Known Member
Falx scales at a whopping rate of 1.5 x the Dragonborn.
At your level of 26 , he would be level 39 and under the cap.

The only other I know of at 1.5 is Erandur... I was wondering If he was the only one.

In my opinion, Kohlar, the most important levels for Dead Thrall (as far as stunted builds are concerned) are 34, 37, and 40. One might argue in favor of a 26 and 32 build too, but honestly, like 1.5s, 1.25s are also quite rare. Erandur's two buddies in Nightcaller are 1.25s, and so is Savos. On the other hand, 1.2s include Ulfric and Tullius. For this reason, I'd value a level 34 build over a 32. Savos is really a pain. You only have one chance to equip him (because you can't open his inventory,) and while his Dremora is pretty sexy... Ah, what am I saying? His Demora is really sexy! I'm not 100% sure when named vampires turn Master, but I know for certain 34 s a fantastic level to acquire guys like Piquine, and Vighar. Unfortunately level 40 is too late to nab these guys. (I don't know if 37 is too.)

Now 1.1s are quite common. They include most all the Race-Named generic NPCs and Fjola. 'Course, 37 is probably even better than a 40 build for this reason; however, I haven't made one to these specs yet. All around, a level 40 is the juiciest, in my experience.

You may not get to make full use of your skill trees with these stunted builds, but they're definitely a rip-roaring time.

Unless that particular Thrall is an absolute must for the entire game that you have planned for a particular character, I`ve discovered that the "frozen" level approach eventually gets boring.
Having mind control spiders does greatly improve a few NPC, notably mages and unarmored types like Kematu.
Even without significant changes , the NPC in this category are extremely powerful and there are very few low-level foes who will give them pause.
Since the game world stops scaling when you do, the quality of enemies/loot suffers greatly.
So I pause in leveling for a little while and then say goodbye to Vyrthur , etc so I can fight against Nightmasters and Legendary Dragons.

when i finally level up , the generic NPC that I miss most using as thralls are the Briarhearts(both types) and the named one would be Ralys Sedarus.

Experiment note:
Once a thrall is subject to mind control , they will be able to wear Ahzidahl`s Ring of Arcana and cast Ignite or Freeze. Only requirement appears to be a min lvl 25 destruction skill.
Ralys is so much fun with dualwield and ignite , no moan , and dunmer battle taunts he may just be my alltime fav thrall(def top3) and it`s only the fact that he scales past the cap that prevents a clear win.
 
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Adam Warlock

Well-Known Member
I intend to thrall Falx Carius, but what level must I be to accomplish that? This is my first foray into necromancy as a serious art. At this point, I really have no idea what I'm doing. My first actual quest is the Markarth Foresworn quest. A Breton, who made her way to Markarth, finds herself caught up in the conspiracy. Any advice?? I'm about to get Molag Bal's mace if I can survive the mission. :beermug: I would've stared a new thread, but by the looks of things that would've been redundant.
As far as advice re: Markarth.
Drop anchors on Eola , Cosnach , Vorstag if/when they die.
 

Kohlar the Unkilled

Time for some ale
I intend to thrall Falx Carius, but what level must I be to accomplish that? This is my first foray into necromancy as a serious art. At this point, I really have no idea what I'm doing. My first actual quest is the Markarth Foresworn quest. A Breton, who made her way to Markarth, finds herself caught up in the conspiracy. Any advice?? I'm about to get Molag Bal's mace if I can survive the mission. :beermug: I would've stared a new thread, but by the looks of things that would've been redundant.
As far as advice re: Markarth.
Drop anchors on Eola , Cosnach , Vorstag if/when they die.
Forgive me but, drop anchors? This refers to something specific, the likes of which I'm still unclear about.
 

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