Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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Ancano

High Justiciar
"With me, you kill Skyrim's last hope. Mark my words. You'll all be serving elven masters soon. And know then, that I would have stopped them." - Ulfric Stormcloak

Such vanity... He believes he's Skyrim's last hope and that only he can stop the Thalmor.

His ego will be the death of you all.

"But you're willing to sacrifice thousands for your own selfish ambitions." - General Tullius to Ulfric Stormcloak.
He is Skyrim's last hope, in a nationalistic sense. With the Empire, Skyrim may very well survive, but it won't be "skyrim" if the Nords have turned into weak, submissive servants.


What about being oppressed by Ulfric and his 'cause'? Why should I trade one Tyrant a thousand miles away for a thousand tyrants one mile away?

Reachmen and Whiterun had their own nationalism which was forceably 'removed' by the Stormcloaks. If Ulfric is already forceably removing people's identity, what's the difference?
 

Orien Terrik

"Arik tree'ac te kek."
What about being oppressed by Ulfric and his 'cause'? Why should I trade one Tyrant a thousand miles away for a thousand tyrants one mile away?

Reachmen and Whiterun had their own nationalism which was forceably 'removed' by the Stormcloaks. If Ulfric is already forceably removing people's identity, what's the difference?

Ahaha, The Patriot!! I love that movie!
 

General Charles Xander

General of the 11th Imperial Legion
"With me, you kill Skyrim's last hope. Mark my words. You'll all be serving elven masters soon. And know then, that I would have stopped them." - Ulfric Stormcloak

Such vanity... He believes he's Skyrim's last hope and that only he can stop the Thalmor.

His ego will be the death of you all.

"But you're willing to sacrifice thousands for your own selfish ambitions." - General Tullius to Ulfric Stormcloak.
He is Skyrim's last hope, in a nationalistic sense. With the Empire, Skyrim may very well survive, but it won't be "skyrim" if the Nords have turned into weak, submissive servants.
So I'm assuming the Nords were "weak submissive servants" when they were the first to immediately join Tiber Septim and support his rule? When they charged into the Battle of Red Ring, decimating the Thalmor? Nords are not weak with the Empire. In fact, they've been stronger than ever before.
 

Orien Terrik

"Arik tree'ac te kek."
I just want to throw this out there... If the Stormcloaks win, the Nords that support the Empire will most likely leave or start another rebellion. Skyrim's population, if I remember correctly, was almost legit split in half on who to support. So if the Stormcloaks lose even more people who would normally be producing crops, hunting, fishing, and producing the nations economy, that means more and more of the militia that Ulfric had built up would have to return home to help out the economy, if that would even do any good. Now, while the same could be said that if the Empire wins the Stormcloak supporters would leave, that is not near as big of a deal because, well, heck, they are an Empire. They live off the Empire's economy. People that lived in other parts of the Empire could move to Skyrim, help stimulate the economy even more.
 

Ancano

High Justiciar
I just want to throw this out there... If the Stormcloaks win, the Nords that support the Empire will most likely leave or start another rebellion. Skyrim's population, if I remember correctly, was almost legit split in half on who to support. So if the Stormcloaks lose even more people who would normally be producing crops, hunting, fishing, and producing the nations economy, that means more and more of the militia that Ulfric had built up would have to return home to help out the economy, if that would even do any good. Now, while the same could be said that if the Empire wins the Stormcloak supporters would leave, that is not near as big of a deal because, well, heck, they are an Empire. They live off the Empire's economy. People that lived in other parts of the Empire could move to Skyrim, help stimulate the economy even more.


Exactly. Ulfric abandoned the 'process' for safely effecting political change so anything goes now. Stormified Skyrim will be pacified on one end and occupied on the Solitude end. It'll be same way with the Empire however, Ulfric's cause has wrecked "Old Hold" local economies. And there are several npcs in game who talk about this, various situations, but the Imperial Jarls want to rebuild the Stormcloak half of Skyrim and THAT is something we can conclude many citizens would welcome with arms wide open. So the Empire's 'occupation' would seem more like a rehabilitation.

As for the Stormcloaks themselves, there is something to be admired, what with them fighting for their Freedom against an Empire who won't fight for them. However, problem is whatever the Stormcloaks is fighting for Ulfric isn't necessarily fighting for them either. Cart ride dialogue and Riften Jarl Family testimony for example. That's the elephant in the room which many 'cloaks have written off as being 'a bad Jarl' who means well and is doing what needs to be done. Which is fine but then every Stormcloak is thinking they're doing what needs to be done but they can't all agree on what needs to be done. Some are more biased than others. Galmar vs Ulfric vs the Silverblood Jarl for example.

Some are more extreme than others, Galmar pushes Ulfric who has his own ambitions for the Crown mixed with bad feelings towards... everyone else and then Mr Silverblood wants revenge on the Forsworn although Ulfric wants to punish the Empire and Galmar wants an army who wants a fleet to sail to Summerset who wants vengeance against us who wants Dark Elves out of the country who wants to persecute anyone who speaks out against Ulfric who wants to kill anyone wearing an Imperial uniform who wants to be High King yet doesn't follow Nord tradition who wants another temple erected to Talos in Whiterun even though they already have a heavily trafficed Talos shrine even though they originally said the city walls were falling down but then Galmar and Ulfric said the walls weren't actually falling down so instead of repairing "Shrodinger's Walls" we'll throw away money on another Temple in a hold that was already had freedom of Speech and Religion... It's crazy...

The whole Stormcloak cause is irresponsible and leaves one to ponder who is actually in charge? Bandits and Raiders, Thugs scaly wags all muttering incoherent slogans about Freedom while they're trying to take away yours and Skyrim belongs to the Nords, they're not Stormcloaks yet they feel same as Ulfric's people and they're all fighting for Freedom :/

Hopefully, once Ulfric is gone the Stormcloaks will stop fighting and realize what is best for Tamriel.
 

Lewsean

Member
"With me, you kill Skyrim's last hope. Mark my words. You'll all be serving elven masters soon. And know then, that I would have stopped them." - Ulfric Stormcloak

Such vanity... He believes he's Skyrim's last hope and that only he can stop the Thalmor.

His ego will be the death of you all.

"But you're willing to sacrifice thousands for your own selfish ambitions." - General Tullius to Ulfric Stormcloak.
He is Skyrim's last hope, in a nationalistic sense. With the Empire, Skyrim may very well survive, but it won't be "skyrim" if the Nords have turned into weak, submissive servants.
So I'm assuming the Nords were "weak submissive servants" when they were the first to immediately join Tiber Septim and support his rule? When they charged into the Battle of Red Ring, decimating the Thalmor? Nords are not weak with the Empire. In fact, they've been stronger than ever before.
Not at all, because the Empire was strong and worthy of being part of. Now they're just a group acting for their own interests without much concern for civilians.
 

General Charles Xander

General of the 11th Imperial Legion
He is Skyrim's last hope, in a nationalistic sense. With the Empire, Skyrim may very well survive, but it won't be "skyrim" if the Nords have turned into weak, submissive servants.
So I'm assuming the Nords were "weak submissive servants" when they were the first to immediately join Tiber Septim and support his rule? When they charged into the Battle of Red Ring, decimating the Thalmor? Nords are not weak with the Empire. In fact, they've been stronger than ever before.
Not at all, because the Empire was strong and worthy of being part of. Now they're just a group acting for their own interests without much concern for civilians.
How are they a group acting for their own interests? Because they're trying to rebuild and regrow everything that was lost in the Oblivion Crisis, SI and the Great War? You seem to be generalizing the Empire aside from Nords. How do they not have much concern for civilians? Isn't that why they are there? To stop a rebellion that is killing anyone who doesn't agree with them? I'd say that is caring for their civilians. If that wasn't enough, they patrol the roads that you travel on to prevent harmful creatures and people from killing you.

Who sounds like they care more about civilians?

1. A General who even in a time of crisis and under threat of a dragon attack disregards the capture of the leader of a Rebellion in exchange for getting the civilians, soldiers and even prisoners to safety.

2. A fanatic who instead of taking extra precautions to secure a direct confrontation with the enemy, fires flaming catapult rounds into the city not knowing or caring where or who it hits.
 

Ahrolkah

Dovah Do Brom
The only reason I sided with ulfric was because I hated the thalmor tbh
 

TheQahnaarin

Son of Skyrim

So, what's wrong with that? Nords enjoy drinking, it's their lives, they can do what they want with it. Skyrim's their home, they can do what they want with it. There is nothing to suggest Nords aren't responsible enough to run a kingdom or sustain themselves independently, if that's what you're getting at. And even if they can't, who are you to decide your going to swoop in and look after them?
 

TheQahnaarin

Son of Skyrim
"With me, you kill Skyrim's last hope. Mark my words. You'll all be serving elven masters soon. And know then, that I would have stopped them." - Ulfric Stormcloak

Such vanity... He believes he's Skyrim's last hope and that only he can stop the Thalmor.

His ego will be the death of you all.

"But you're willing to sacrifice thousands for your own selfish ambitions." - General Tullius to Ulfric Stormcloak.
He is Skyrim's last hope, in a nationalistic sense. With the Empire, Skyrim may very well survive, but it won't be "skyrim" if the Nords have turned into weak, submissive servants.

This is true. An Imperial victory means the death of Nordic identity.
 

TheQahnaarin

Son of Skyrim
So I'm assuming the Nords were "weak submissive servants" when they were the first to immediately join Tiber Septim and support his rule? When they charged into the Battle of Red Ring, decimating the Thalmor? Nords are not weak with the Empire. In fact, they've been stronger than ever before.
Not at all, because the Empire was strong and worthy of being part of. Now they're just a group acting for their own interests without much concern for civilians.
How are they a group acting for their own interests? Because they're trying to rebuild and regrow everything that was lost in the Oblivion Crisis, SI and the Great War? You seem to be generalizing the Empire aside from Nords. How do they not have much concern for civilians? Isn't that why they are there? To stop a rebellion that is killing anyone who doesn't agree with them? I'd say that is caring for their civilians. If that wasn't enough, they patrol the roads that you travel on to prevent harmful creatures and people from killing you.

Who sounds like they care more about civilians?

1. A General who even in a time of crisis and under threat of a dragon attack disregards the capture of the leader of a Rebellion in exchange for getting the civilians, soldiers and even prisoners to safety.

2. A fanatic who instead of taking extra precautions to secure a direct confrontation with the enemy, fires flaming catapult rounds into the city not knowing or caring where or who it hits.

It's a well known fact the Empire's officials (Elder Council mostly) are usually in it for themselves. Don't try to dress that up.

Where are you getting the Stormcloaks kill anyone who disagrees with them from? If they were that extreme, Dunmer and Argonians would be conscripted, imprisoned, or exiled. The Battle-Borns would not continue the comfortable lives they do. You have a guy walking around in Legion armor in Dawnstar, for crying out loud. Stormcloaks don't have public executions or keep torture rooms at least.

I know the Stormcloaks aren't perfect, but to say they kill anyone who disagrees with them, to make them out to be extremists who have NO regard for others is just so flat out false.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
I have been gone for a while, so I am going to say this:

I have a Bosmer ex-princess who will be friendly with the nords because she like her women tall and muscular, but will stay out of the fighting as she does not care for politics much. I also have a Nord warrior/Mercenary who will just stay out of it for no reason other than killing the people he wants to help (the innocent common folk) is not a good battle.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
He is Skyrim's last hope, in a nationalistic sense. With the Empire, Skyrim may very well survive, but it won't be "skyrim" if the Nords have turned into weak, submissive servants.

They're far from submissive servants under the Empire. The Talos Priests all speak about how they will continue to defy the Thalmor in their hearts. With war just around the corner, are the Nords going to sit there sulking about things that no longer matter once the White-Gold Concordat is torn up and Tamriel decends into war?

Ulfric is far from Skyrim's last hope. You follow a politician who claims that he, and he alone is the last hope? You speak of nationalism, yet not one true High King of Skyrim would ever put themselves above their men. It would have been "We are Skyrim's last hope", you Stormcloaks fight with mismatched equipment, sometimes poor grade of weapons while the Jarl of Windhelm gets a fancy ancient royal looking blade made? Not even the Imperial Emperor Titus Mede used better weapons than his men.

The only weak submissive servants are the Stormcloaks, so wrapped up by Ulfric's words they don't even think about the lies he fills them with. According to the Stormcloak Officers, High King Torygg and the Jarls who supported him were to blame for the treaty in Skyrim (Which is odd since no one was against Torygg until Ulfric challenged him) and the Emperor surrendered when the Imperial City was threatened.

Even Galmar grows tired of Ulfric near the end of the war, so obsessed with his image. http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000d1e0e
 
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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage

So, what's wrong with that? Nords enjoy drinking, it's their lives, they can do what they want with it. Skyrim's their home, they can do what they want with it. There is nothing to suggest Nords aren't responsible enough to run a kingdom or sustain themselves independently, if that's what you're getting at. And even if they can't, who are you to decide your going to swoop in and look after them?

She didn't say that. You did.
 

Kittyworker

New Member
I honestly didn't feel too strongly for either of them. I played as both on different characters and they were about the same fun wise. If I had to pick either I would have to go with the Stormcloaks simply because I like the song 'Age of Oppression' more than 'Age of Aggression'.
 

Ancano

High Justiciar
"With me, you kill Skyrim's last hope. Mark my words. You'll all be serving elven masters soon. And know then, that I would have stopped them." - Ulfric Stormcloak

Such vanity... He believes he's Skyrim's last hope and that only he can stop the Thalmor.

His ego will be the death of you all.

"But you're willing to sacrifice thousands for your own selfish ambitions." - General Tullius to Ulfric Stormcloak.
He is Skyrim's last hope, in a nationalistic sense. With the Empire, Skyrim may very well survive, but it won't be "skyrim" if the Nords have turned into weak, submissive servants.

This is true. An Imperial victory means the death of Nordic identity.


Aww you poor thing. Funny how Whiterun *had* Freedom to Worship Talos and *had* Freedom of Speech before the Stormcloaks liberated them.
 

Ancano

High Justiciar
I honestly didn't feel too strongly for either of them. I played as both on different characters and they were about the same fun wise. If I had to pick either I would have to go with the Stormcloaks simply because I like the song 'Age of Oppression' more than 'Age of Aggression'.


Ohhh yes... let us all gather around and sing praises to the Lord of his Mightiness. I'd rather be shoved off High Hrothgar in a wheelbarrow.

Don't you see? Stormcloaks are leading themselves off the cliff for putting all of their faith into this 'man' whose incompetence at being Jarl is well proven and yet, somehow he's your only hope?

When you sing his praises, try to remember ALL of the people Ulfric and his Stormcloaks has murdered and oppressed. ALL of them, including the Reachmen and citizens of Whiterun who died defending their homes and freedom(s) from your savior.

Eh oh well. You won't listen. They never do. That's ok, one by one the Thalmor will teach you.
 
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Ancano

High Justiciar
He is Skyrim's last hope, in a nationalistic sense. With the Empire, Skyrim may very well survive, but it won't be "skyrim" if the Nords have turned into weak, submissive servants.

They're far from submissive servants under the Empire. The Talos Priests all speak about how they will continue to defy the Thalmor in their hearts. With war just around the corner, are the Nords going to sit there sulking about things that no longer matter once the White-Gold Concordat is torn up and Tamriel decends into war?

Ulfric is far from Skyrim's last hope. You follow a politician who claims that he, and he alone is the last hope? You speak of nationalism, yet not one true High King of Skyrim would ever put themselves above their men. It would have been "We are Skyrim's last hope", you Stormcloaks fight with mismatched equipment, sometimes poor grade of weapons while the Jarl of Windhelm gets a fancy ancient royal looking blade made? Not even the Imperial Emperor Titus Mede used better weapons than his men.

The only weak submissive servants are the Stormcloaks, so wrapped up by Ulfric's words they don't even think about the lies he fills them with. According to the Stormcloak Officers, High King Torygg and the Jarls who supported him were to blame for the treaty in Skyrim (Which is odd since no one was against Torygg until Ulfric challenged him) and the Emperor surrendered when the Imperial City was threatened.

Even Galmar grows tired of Ulfric near the end of the war, so obsessed with his image. http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000d1e0e


Galmar is in control the entire time. Would make for an interesting discussion. The children are praising Ulfric and glorifying his name from the rooftops when it was really Galmar's doing all along. God I love it when... nevermind... nevermind... ;)

Hehehe
 
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Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Well, I'm not defending their excuses however... you do understand the Emperor and majority of Imperial Brass had no other choice than to sign the WGC? Therefore, it doesn't matter what they know, politics dictates they uphold the treaty. All the Imperials have is their word. Something to be said about that actually.

The Emperor was winning. He not only recaptured his city, but also captured the Thalmor's general. Now explain to me why the Empire had to sign this ridiculous WGC?
 

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