LegateFasendil
Imperial Legate
Hmmm. Interesting.
Hehehe. Talk about building your house upon a rock.
Why don't we just make the Archmage High King of Skyrim and call it even?
Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?
- Thread starter EvilCrazyCows
- Start date
Hmmm. Interesting.
Hehehe. Talk about building your house upon a rock.
Why don't we just make the Archmage High King of Skyrim and call it even?
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Are you taking into account the various magical focal points? The ones that are in locations around the College and under it? I have no doubt that the College and it's foundation (the ice and rock) are magically infused to withstand the elements and attack. A magical ward also surrounds something, so think of it like a bubble.
Shalidor built the College, selected it's location. He was very powerful, but also quite arrogant I believe. He would have intended this monument of study and magic to last throughout the ages. You wouldn't just stick a building on top of it and hope for the best, there are tunnels under the College that go all the way to the bottom. It would need supports to stop it from caving in or the wind wearing it down.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Learn something new every day. Well, that destroys another Stormcloak argument. Have we won the war yet?
Ivory
Let's Player
We won a long time ago.
"There's bound to be resistance. There are many Stormcloak camps tucked away in the hills. They'll no doubt strike whenever and wherever they can. But without Ulfric to inflame their passions, they'll settle down and return to their homes eventually."
LegateFasendil
Imperial Legate
Technically, Empire won that war long before the game even began hehehe. Win or lose Ulfric will always be used by someone. If he had only just been happy with what he had, if he had only spent his days in the meade hall of Windhelm drinking and feasting on the throne of Ysgramor, who knows what could have happened in time? Instead, he couldn't stay out of everyone else's business, got a bunch of people killed over reckless ambition and couldn't even handle his own affairs properly. City administration wasn't a juvenile attempt, there was none at all. It would have been laughable if it wasn't so serious. Yet *somehow* he deserved to be high king.
Some mfers are always trying to ice skate uphill.
Still, the Empire will have to win against the Thalmor now. Though I don't blame the Empire for signing the WGC, sometimes you should have sympathy for the devil, the best of us make mistakes. I can't say the Thalmor will show the same, not for Talos in the least... not after what he done.
See you around.
Some mfers are always trying to ice skate uphill.
Still, the Empire will have to win against the Thalmor now. Though I don't blame the Empire for signing the WGC, sometimes you should have sympathy for the devil, the best of us make mistakes. I can't say the Thalmor will show the same, not for Talos in the least... not after what he done.
See you around.
Last edited:
TheQahnaarin
Son of Skyrim
Looks like we're all as stubborn as the commanders we fought under.
You will never convince me of the Empire's capability, I'll never convince you of the potential an independent Skyrim has.
You'll never convince me Ulfric is a manipulated villain, I'll never convince you he's a revolutionary hero.
You won't convince me of Skyrim's need of the empire, I won't convince you of Skyrim's need to free itself.
You won't convince me of the importance of Imperial traditions, I won't convince you of the importance of Nordic traditions.
Maybe there are some exceptions here and there but I think you'll get the idea of what I'm saying here, we're pretty set in our ways.
Apparantly the Thalmor's plan to turn mankind against each other has spread right over the fourth wall.
You will never convince me of the Empire's capability, I'll never convince you of the potential an independent Skyrim has.
You'll never convince me Ulfric is a manipulated villain, I'll never convince you he's a revolutionary hero.
You won't convince me of Skyrim's need of the empire, I won't convince you of Skyrim's need to free itself.
You won't convince me of the importance of Imperial traditions, I won't convince you of the importance of Nordic traditions.
Maybe there are some exceptions here and there but I think you'll get the idea of what I'm saying here, we're pretty set in our ways.
Apparantly the Thalmor's plan to turn mankind against each other has spread right over the fourth wall.
General Charles Xander
General of the 11th Imperial Legion
Which is why we must be better ourselves. True we are all biased in our own opinions, but look at the facts and sincerely answer. Who is going to last longer in the long-run?
A famous person once said:
"Do you know what the will and wish of man is? Not the desire for independence, not the desire to be fair, but rather the desire to be ruled. We fight for our own agendas and for our own wishes, but on the end we want someone to lead us. Someone to love, someone to hate, someone to blame. Because humanity cannot accept these sins themselves, we fault others for our mistakes. Humanity is arrogant and when we finally dawn that sin upon ourselves in that time of need, that is when we will truly cease to exist..."
Ivory
Let's Player
I am aware of Skyrim's potential. Now is not the time to do it. Crippling your fellow man because you don't want to prepare for the next fight against the elves is stubborn and childish.
He's our enemy, and your leader. History will write who he ends up being.
Because the need to protect all of mankind extends the ways of one people. The Stormcloaks are concerned about themselves and themselves alone.
Every races' traditions are important. However sometimes sacrifices must be made. The Empire learned that during the war, losing the Imperial city for a time. The Redguards learned that too.
"Oh, no no no! No mistake at all. What you made was a choice. Granted, not a very wise choice, but these things happen. Ah, the folly of youth..."
Harkin
Necromatic Mastermind
Hahahahaha!, I so want that bridge to collapse, it would honestly be the funniest thing ever.
Tolfdir would be like: "Oh my goodness! Simply Fascinating! I've never seen the world move so fast towards the sky before, oh wait.. am I falling? This strange feeling...gravity perhaps? What just Happened?!"
Rimfaxe96
Well-Known Member
Well, in the end our discussions don't really matter. Those Imperials waiting for Pale Pass to melt down a little will end the CW, or perhaps Bethesda spits out a nice story about Ulfric being torn to pieces by dragons or the rebellion dying when he tripped and broke his neck.
I just want TES6 already. At the very least give us some rumors or the location or the top government of Tamriel.
Mikulas Black-Blade
The Cave Bear
The Arrogance of the Empire never ceases to amaze me. Was it not your own blind ambition that conquered Skyrim in the first place? and was it not your own blind ambition that lead to the formation of the Third Dominion that plagues us Nords now? Oh no that was good blind ambition, wasn't it? That led to the betterment of Tamriel, for a little, until Civil War broke out across the land and Brothers began killing each other! I only wish Ysgramor was still alive, so that he and Ulfric would wipe out the petty Domininon and set Skyrim, and perhaps Tamriel, on the right path. The man deserved High Kingship by Tradition! But the Damned Imperials named him a murderer for doing Skyrim a favor, and ending that petty boy's reign. They only need to kill that girl and get it over with, I'll never understand why Ulfric let that idiot live. Only to satiate the people's love for her, I suppose. And Ysmir's beard, how you lick the Thalmor's boots! What's the matter? Afraid of a few Elven Swords in Cyrodiil? Skyrim will never be afraid, not while Ulfric is on the Throne! Ruth enook laat gein do hi pahlokaal Lokolteiren firok! Ysmir dur hi!Technically, Empire won that war long before the game even began hehehe. Win or lose Ulfric will always be used by someone. If he had only just been happy with what he had, if he had only spent his days in the meade hall of Windhelm drinking and feasting on the throne of Ysgramor, who knows what could have happened in time? Instead, he couldn't stay out of everyone else's business, got a bunch of people killed over reckless ambition and couldn't even handle his own affairs properly. City administration wasn't a juvenile attempt, there was none at all. It would have been laughable if it wasn't so serious. Yet *somehow* he deserved to be high king.
Some mfers are always trying to ice skate uphill.
Still, the Empire will have to win against the Thalmor now. Though I don't blame the Empire for signing the WGC, sometimes you should have sympathy for the devil, the best of us make mistakes. I can't say the Thalmor will show the same, not for Talos in the least... not after what he done.
See you around.
TheQahnaarin
Son of Skyrim
Well, in the end our discussions don't really matter. Those Imperials waiting for Pale Pass to melt down a little will end the CW, or perhaps Bethesda spits out a nice story about Ulfric being torn to pieces by dragons or the rebellion dying when he tripped and broke his neck.
I just want TES6 already. At the very least give us some rumors or the location or the top government of Tamriel.
Khajiit does not know this internet you speak of. This one has been hitting the sugar, khajiit thinks.
I trust Beth. has a plan, they must. I seriously doubt they were just releasing the game and someones like "wait, so what are we gonna say about the civil war for ES 6?"
TheQahnaarin
Son of Skyrim
And paying for your treaty with your subjects (who just scarred a generation for their empire) is cowardly and traitorous. Trust me, they want to and are preparing for the next fight against the elves.
Yep, history is written by the victor.
Because it's high time they do. They've gone and died for the empire, took on multitudes of refugees of a race they've been ancient enemies with, and their reward was the concordat.
So the Redguards have abandoned their traditions by renouncing the Empire and declaring themselves independent from the Dominion and Empire? If anything they've gone back to the good ol' days.
Change won't come from sitting around and being content with mediocritiy.
TheQahnaarin
Son of Skyrim
I don't know, the upstart, fierce and determined kingdom, inspired by the methods that lead to the original rise of mankind, or the empire that has been slowly crumbling for 200 years?
Imperial victory:
You now have to look after and fund a battered province, whose traditions have just been driven into the ground and spat on. Morale is not high, and the leader (even if she has capable advisors) is not a charmer and will not inspire. Ulfric is a martyr, and there's many others who will continue to resent the empire. Another rebellion may begin. You will have to overly police this province now. Your Emporer is dead, and even if he has a heir, the Elder Council is trying to seize power. Very divided leadership problems. The Thalmor are legally allowed to wander your lands, and can watch your every move, and deter your people and quench their spirit. Who knows who else they've assassinated or swayed to their side, or what war plans theyve had a peek at? The Legions have had a problem rebuilding for quite some time now, and they have never in their history been more depleted than after the War. The divided council and lack of an Emporer won't speed this up either.
In my opinion, the Empire may be better off if the Stormcloaks win.
As crazy as it sounds, it may be better to just start over with an undisputed ruler, and a people eager to prove themselves. Not to mention the possibilities of Hammerfell and High Rock aligning with them. May just be crazy enough to work.
Ivory
Let's Player
It was everyone's choice. Including Skyrim's. You cannot side with the Empire and then turn your back when it's convenient. That's called being a traitor.
As has every other race have died for the Empire, including High elves. Ulfric and the stormcloaks didn't take in the dunmer, they came long before the stormcloaks (The army) were even a thing. It's not our fault that Skyrim decided to attack morrowind during/after the Oblivion Crisis. If anything, they should take responsibility just as the Dunmer did for what they did to the Argonians.
Redguards and Nords are nothing alike. Not to mention the whole Crowns and Forebears is literally that exact issue that's plagued them for over a thousand years. There are no "good ol' days" for the Nords. Just War.
No one was sitting around. The Empire and Thalmor are building their armies. Just because they don't flash it around, doesn't mean it isn't happening. Hell, they barely even hide it, from both sides. Yet stormcloaks are so far up their own asses to see what's going to happen, they are blind, by choice to it all.
TheQahnaarin
Son of Skyrim
Not going for Cyrodiil would mean the majority of the Legions able to go on the offensive and everything is open to a counter attack.
By definition, Battlemages don't use shields.
The people will want someone to look to, dragons and war will probably leave a bit of an impact on a generation already scarred from the Great War. Even if the Legion is in fantastic shape (which it almost certainly isn't or the war would've begun already) you'll want to recruit from Skyrim so
a) You can have lots of talented warriors for the upcoming war
b) You can stop policing Skyrim and get back to the matter at hand
I have a feeling Stormcloak survivors would be more of a problem than Imperial ones. Legionaires thrive on structure. Living out in the woods with no real leader, if they care that much it would make more sense to go to Cyrodiil, considering half of them are Imperials.
Missing the Legion life has more to do with it being the only option at the time, not cause they loved upholding the Empire's ideals I'm guessing. I'm sure joining the army Ulfric is building will be just as much fun.
At that point it's just them and High Rock, and trade with them just got a hundred times more difficult. Skyrim meets all those as well, except the climate and crossroads one. EETC still operates in Skyrim.
But their natural abilities will make training less time consuming. A large number of them are already experienced warriors. Former Legionaires are also the ones training them.
But they can go wherever they want, and they have bases of operations in every province. Espionage inside the Dominion will be harder than ever, and in Alinor impossible, while Imperial generals are playing host to Justiciars. The next war is obvious, but if a Thalmor operative were to find information about when or where (which could be across the street from one of their embassies), that could jeopardize everything.
Think about how effective Thalmor espionage was before, and now the Empire has open doors.
Still, Skyrim could get by without importing everything. Whiterun on its own supplies food for the whole province.
That would be High Rock's local forces guarding Wayrest anyway, not the legions.
Well didn't Ivory say there are severe spiritual consequences if they use too much of the forest?
Whiterun had plenty of warning, and I'd imagine the fireballs were aimed at specific, military targets. Still not as bad as encouraging mercanaries to do what they wish with civilians.
I'd imagine very costly.
Destroying the Empire is a means to an end. Lorkhan is the most unholy thing imaginable to them, and therefore mankind isn't far behind.
Reckless stuff:
Breylna's experiment
J'zargo's experiment
Arniel's experiment
The decision to remove the Eye from Saarthal
Going to Saarthal in the first place
Letting Ancano in under no obligation to do so
Aren's actions at the Librythian
I would say telling the Nords to suck it up is a bit unfair, it's their lives and homes on the line.
Ivory
Let's Player
No. I said there are severe spiritual consequences for Bosmer. It would probably take the Death of the Silvenar, King of Valenwood, Wilderkin and the Green Lady to completely unbind the pacts made by the Bosmer and Y'ffre.
After that, the Valenwood would be wild again, free to do as it pleased.
There was no warning if you're on the Imperial side. You take Ulfric the axe, he tells you to go back, refusing it and as a result, by the time you get there and deliver the message, the city is already under attack. Also, Many of those fireballs hit homes, ironically destroying Heimskr's home, and if we wanted to talk realistically, would have destroyed breezehome, the blacksmith's home, and probably part of the companions home as well simple due to the debris and rubble from Heimskr's home. MANY civilians would (and should) have died.
1. Inside the college, optional.
2. Away from Winterhold. Usually in an undead area. Optional.
3. Inside the College.
4. Leaving it INSIDE Saarthal would have been a mistake after it was uncovered. No doubt the Thalmor would have been at it if they'd left it there.
5. Because people wanting to study the ancient magics of a people who ironically hate magic now, and uncover the history of Tamriel is such an evil thing to do right?
6. We don't know the details to Ancano's purpose in the college beyond being an advisor and going crazy mad with power (which annoys me, he should have been fleshed out more)
7. He was young, and it wasn't his idea to go to begin with. All of them made the choice to go inside. If he didn't do what he did, Morokei would have been free and caused terrible destruction in his wake.
It's ironic that you call them reckless and blame them for everything, but when they fix it or use preventative measures to stop something from getting too out of hand, it's still their fault if they had to do something drastic to PROTECT people.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Not going for all of Cyrodiil. They should have kept with their plan of pinning down the Legions in Cyrodiil. Keeping a defensive war, close to reinforcements of Valenwood/Elsweyr. Pushing too far ahead too soon, simply left them spread out.
They fight alongside formations, there is no rule that Battlemages don't use shields. By definition they're a mix of warrior/scholar. Legionaries fight in formation, Mages attached to Legions fight also in formation.
People look to different things. Chances are they will look to the legend of the Dragonborn, than anyone else. The Empire not rushing to war isn't a sign of Legions being in poor shape, in fact they have enough manpower to fortify the southern border, escort trade shipments across Cyrodiil and form up to march into Skyrim once Pale Pass is clear.
Tullius and Rikke don't even make mention of recruiting in Skyrim after the Civil War is finished. Unlike the Stormcloaks, they're not planning on building up any army, they have one in Cyrodiil. If large forces were required, Tullius and Rikke would have recruiting/training as a high priority. The only thing they're concerned with is bringing order back to Skyrim, and keeping the region stable.
Joining the Legion is basically tradition among many Nord families. You hear Legionaries mention they joined because of their father, and father's father. Missing the Legion is an attachment, thinking back to your friends and brothers in arms. I don't see how to a rich powerful family it was "the only option" .
Don't see how trade gets difficult, trade vessels travel from Cyrodiil to Skyrim and High Rock is closer. Climate is very important, it is mentioned that only Rorikstead is the only reliable farm in all of Skyrim. Yes the EETC still operates, but we don't know for how long. Ulfric intends to wipe out all "Imperial influences", EETC could be considered as one.
It doesn't make training less time consuming, not every Nord is a natural warrior. The Stormcloaks do some experienced people among their ranks, and former Legionaries will train them. But, what happens if the Great War were to break out right after the death of Titus Mede II or soon after the Cviil War ends? Are the Stormcloaks going to abandon Skyrim to join the war? Your standing army is made up of your Hold Guards and farmers/other tradesmen. You sacrificed your economy and Hold security to push out the Empire, that is a temporary solution.
You Stormcloaks are mostly Eastern Hold citizens. You killed majority of the Hold Guards/citizens who joined the Legion in the Western Holds. You had to replace those guards with your own, sacrificing the security of the East to secure the West. Windhelm doesn't have enough guards, Dawnstar is lacking, Riften etc. Now this also effects the Western Holds under your control, Markarth alone is demanding extra Stormcloaks to enslave and suppress the Forsworn, Falkreath is pleading for forces to defend Skyrim from Cyrodiil Counter-attack (Although the Legionary Veterans hidden in the Hills might stop that letter from even reaching Ulfric).
Now comes economy concerns, you're made up of large numbers of farmers and other tradesmen. Who replaces them? They joined to push out the Legion, I doubt many of them thought through what consequences would happen without them farming/repairing/selling things. You also see this in Eastmarch where the Mill lost all it's workers to the war, without anyone thinking about the arrows that are made from the wood supplied. You no longer get the free resources and food from the Empire, so things like this will have major consequences.
So if the war was to break out right after the Civil War. Ulfric's plan is to take the entire army to the Dominion. You're either f*ucking over all of Skyrim majorly to fight this war Ulfric plans to lead you towards or you're sitting it out while iron out the "minor details".
They can't go wherever they want. Thalmor Justiciars only have the power to ensure the White-Gold Concordat is followed, and are only allowed increased presence if there is a large open violation (Them using the Civil War as an excuse to launch a large inquisition in Skyrim).
Tullius has to deal with the Thalmor because he is in Skyrim under a political fashion, as well as a Military function. He's the Military Govenor of Skyrim, acting head of state.
Where the next war will be? Where the armies are.
Just lets us round them up, cut off their heads and mail Alinor with an Ultimatum of our own.
No Whiterun doesn't. The area surprisingly is considered poor for farming, hence why Rorikstead is rumored to use magic. Those who do succeed end up quite rich, hence how the Battle-Borns came into wealth. There are farms all over Skyrim that provide what little they can.
You don't know that, Markarth wasn't guarded by Skyrim's local forces apparently but had Legions. There is conscription at times, or when Legionaries are loaned to counties and local rulers.
Only Valenwood Bosmer who do it. Altmer, other races are fine. With Elsweyr as a client state, gathering workers won't be too hard. Both Elsweyr and Alinor practice slavery.
They didn't have plenty of warning, the catapults were a surprise but the Legion had prepared water carriers just in case. Aimed at Military targets? What my house and Belethor's shop? They're catapults, not smart missiles. There were Civilians running around screaming, with guards/soldiers yelling at them to get inside.
The Empire doesn't encourage mercenaries to do as they please, that was just me saying they could. In fact there were some mercenaries in Cyrodiil who were punished for raiding a civilian trade caravan. Probably put to death or sent to prison/contract torn up.
That is why you send the mercenaries in first. Weakens the enemy and means less people to pay after the war ends.
The Thalmor seek to recreate a new Merethic Era, Elven domination. That requires the Imperial Empire to be gone, because the Thalmor view themselves as the true rulers of Tamriel. Mankind is more something to be enslaved.
So they shouldn't do research? If you remark that dangerous research must be a problem, he will explain: "Not often, no. Some risks must be taken, to be sure. I am simply trying to avoid untimely deaths. We also must make an effort to avoid worsening what Skyrim thinks of us."
They removed the Eye from Saarthal, because it was the best option. To study, but also to safeguard from others. They went to Saarthal to simply study, gather little artifacts, study ancient wards, check out some pots. Didn't intend to look for the Eye.
Aren's actions at the ruin? You mean freezing the Dragon Priest in time? Going there wasn't his idea, it was that female Mage in the party. Also I'd hardly blame the College, they were left in the dark.
I'll give you the Thalmor fellow, but they did not know what he would try do.
They should suck it up. For thousands of years it was their pride and joy having the College. Then the Oblivion Crisis happened, and instead of thanking the College Mages for defending Skyrim against Oblivion Gates and the Mythic Dawn Cult, they were shunned. Then the Great Collapse happened, but of course it had to be the College's fault.
Last edited:
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Not sure I'm following? They have structure, and a chain of command that is still very much alive. Them thriving on structure and organization would make them more of a problem than less of one. It means they can still operate as an effective cohort, or link up with the other various camps. They also have a reinforcement army coming from Pale Pass at some point.
Structure and Military discipline will make them survive much longer out in the woods. It would be you Stormcloaks out in the woods with no real leader, Ulfric was key to your plans and objectives. Tullius is a General who can be replaced.
Just because you're Imperial or Breton, or even Redguard, it doesn't make Cyrodiil, High Rock or Hammerfell your home. Skyrim could very well be their home, and in fact for most of them it is. They have lived there for many generations.
Last edited:
LegateFasendil
Imperial Legate
The Arrogance of the Empire never ceases to amaze me. Was it not your own blind ambition that conquered Skyrim in the first place? and was it not your own blind ambition that lead to the formation of the Third Dominion that plagues us Nords now? Oh no that was good blind ambition, wasn't it? That led to the betterment of Tamriel, for a little, until Civil War broke out across the land and Brothers began killing each other! I only wish Ysgramor was still alive, so that he and Ulfric would wipe out the petty Domininon and set Skyrim, and perhaps Tamriel, on the right path. The man deserved High Kingship by Tradition! But the Damned Imperials named him a murderer for doing Skyrim a favor, and ending that petty boy's reign. They only need to kill that girl and get it over with, I'll never understand why Ulfric let that idiot live. Only to satiate the people's love for her, I suppose. And Ysmir's beard, how you lick the Thalmor's boots! What's the matter? Afraid of a few Elven Swords in Cyrodiil? Skyrim will never be afraid, not while Ulfric is on the Throne! Ruth enook laat gein do hi pahlokaal Lokolteiren firok! Ysmir dur hi!Technically, Empire won that war long before the game even began hehehe. Win or lose Ulfric will always be used by someone. If he had only just been happy with what he had, if he had only spent his days in the meade hall of Windhelm drinking and feasting on the throne of Ysgramor, who knows what could have happened in time? Instead, he couldn't stay out of everyone else's business, got a bunch of people killed over reckless ambition and couldn't even handle his own affairs properly. City administration wasn't a juvenile attempt, there was none at all. It would have been laughable if it wasn't so serious. Yet *somehow* he deserved to be high king.
Some mfers are always trying to ice skate uphill.
Still, the Empire will have to win against the Thalmor now. Though I don't blame the Empire for signing the WGC, sometimes you should have sympathy for the devil, the best of us make mistakes. I can't say the Thalmor will show the same, not for Talos in the least... not after what he done.
See you around.
We can't go back to Constantinople friend, not you or I. All we have, all we will ever have is now.
