Thrall Thread : Living with the dead

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HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
Edit: ...Well, after even more experimenting, I am quite convinced there is another element playing at Ancano's removal. In a controlled environment I can get Ancano to stick around for a time, but as soon as I go off doing stuff, he takes off. I get the feeling the game checks for Ancano's body after a transition after reloading a save file... I don't know. It's hard to pinpoint what it could be-- and considering the amount of work it takes to keep him around in the first place, it seems far less feasible with each prerequisite/requirement-- the whole schmeal... I'm moving on. Ancano has left the building.

Old post: I'm going to apologize for getting everyone's hopes up. After further testing with Ancano-- running around, this, that, and the other, I've reached some rather unfortunate results following this exploit. It seems Ancano's inventory cycles... So, basically even in death he is a big bloody pain in the ass... But, fro those of you who are so willing, I can lay out some rules you'll need to follow to keep him around-- without causing as much heartache as he is capable of:

1. Whenever you enthrall him you will want to remove your anchor.

2. Whenever he is in use you will need to follow it by the exploit described earlier before storing him away. (And remember to replace the anchor before two days time...)

3. He will need to be checked on short of every 10 days, so that he doesn't refresh his inventory while you're away, thus, allowing the removal of his body.

Additionally, I learned you don't have to travel to a second walled city for the bug to take place. Once you reload the auto-save, he'll be safe for storage.

...Why would anyone bother to keep Ancano? Good question!

As a keepsake: He is one of the few memorable questline antagonists in the game... Mainly because he's just so arrogant.

As a thrall: He does know Lightning Cloak and will cast flesh spells. He knows also Grand Healing and Frost Atronach. (Edit: Sadlly his Frost Atronach may succumb to the same AI fault as with Peratus because of his knowledge of both cloak and summon.) He has knowledge of an assortment of offensive Destruction spells, and dual casts.

He seems to never use a weapon. May use staves, though, I have not tested this.

He retains his original voice. Will make various comments and statements during battle. Silent outside combat.

I don't know... I think I'll keep him for a while. Most likely until the nostalgia wears off, and I just don't care anymore. Haha.
 
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Harkin

Necromatic Mastermind
Oh, I see. You're one of those persons-who-haven't-played-Borderlands-before persons... At first I was overcome by pity. But, now since that has subsided, I implore you to game your face off.

@HouseHosted
Nope you are mistaken, I'm one of those persons who is playing through Borderlands right now as a first playthrough but doesn't remember names of guns like yourself - I was actually waiting for a response as to see whether you would answer whether Red Destroyer is some sort of rifle?

But why does it seem like you've responded with an attitude?

Since you even told me the magazine size, etc I guess its one to look out for.

Why do people gotta be jumpy when responding to posts, was I coming across in a certain offensive way?
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
Oh, I see. You're one of those persons-who-haven't-played-Borderlands-before persons... At first I was overcome by pity. But, now since that has subsided, I implore you to game your face off.

@HouseHosted
Nope you are mistaken, I'm one of those persons who is playing through Borderlands right now as a first playthrough but doesn't remember names of guns like yourself - I was actually waiting for a response as to see whether you would answer whether Red Destroyer is some sort of rifle?

But why does it seem like you've responded with an attitude?

Since you even told me the magazine size, etc I guess its one to look out for.

Why do people gotta be jumpy when responding to posts, was I coming across in a certain offensive way?
Probably - we all know what a a**h***s you Necromancers are! :)

In any case, I think the reference was to Crimson Destroyer. Here's some good info. :)
http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Destroyer_(rifle)

I do indeed believe it's a rifle.
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
@HouseHosted
Nope you are mistaken, I'm one of those persons who is playing through Borderlands right now as a first playthrough but doesn't remember names of guns like yourself - I was actually waiting for a response as to see whether you would answer whether Red Destroyer is some sort of rifle?

But why does it seem like you've responded with an attitude?

Since you even told me the magazine size, etc I guess its one to look out for.

Why do people gotta be jumpy when responding to posts, was I coming across in a certain offensive way?

I'm rather surprised you thought my reply came across as anything but playful. I'm sorry for the ambiguity. I meant no harm by my comment. It was merely a silly cynical jab, though, I'll try not to sound instigative next time.

I'd like to congratulate you on your return to Pandora. But, yes, the Red Destroyer is a legendary Hyperion burst-fire/combat rifle. I emphasized in italics that it was a dream because it is a dream of mine... To one day acquire such a crazy rare gun.... that will most likely never ever spawn in a thousand hours of looting... Haha...
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
In any case, I think the reference was to Crimson Destroyer

Close. A "Red" Hyperion weapon is a material grade two. Material grade three is designated Crimson. You can easily tell (provided the prefixes don't suggest) material grades in Hyperion by the letter following the body model, i.e. TCH.W, ZPR.G. The latter is a Crimson grade three material. When the letter is missing, it means it is a material grade one. Additionally, grade three always has the prefix Crimson, so, this is hard to miss.

The reason a Red Destroyer is in my wishlist is because the material two of Hyperion grants a bonus of fire rate; something like 30%... I don't remember the exact value.

Edit: ...Looking back, i just realized I made an amateur mistake... The gun I specifically outlined would replace "Red" with "Lightning" to agree with the tech pool of the weapon... And though I don't remember the exact workings of stocks in combat rifles, I do know the added magazine size alters the associated stock number preceding the body model. I don't remember at all what a 300 stock's equivalent to an extended magazine is.

Edit 2: I think it's like 580, or something like that.
 
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HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
....hmmm.. Well, more thrall talk?

There have been some neat developments of late. Despite the sucker punch Ancano gave me, I actually feel quite a bit better today.

Though I'd neglected to mention it before, I did grab The Caller from Fellglow. She is possibly the most entertaining thrall to fight with as her grunts and that while being attacked are hilarious. Overall, as a thrall, her capabilities are lacking. She'll cast a ward, flesh spell, and Sparks. Her one redeeming quality is that she'll heal herself-- and eventually use a weapon once depleted of mana.

Another addition is the Ritual Master from Wolfskull. She is terribly aggressive, as much as J'darr. This really startled me. You give her a dagger (she doesn't know any destruction magic) and she'll just go berzerk. She does know a ward, a flesh spell-- and I think she heals herself too. Her most curious quality is: She knows of Turn Undead. Which level of this I am uncertain of, however, she's cast it on Wights and a couple Scourges so far... Oh, and it is such an annoying spell... Luckily she'll dash right after them with ferocity and determination.

Both Anska and Arondil have been great thralls as well. I'm very impressed by Arondil especially. His Ice Storms are truly remarkable.

My last addition belongs to she, who is named: Jordis Sword-Maiden. With as much desire to defeat our foes as the Ritual master; no less. And her battle cries are absolutely crazy! I would be supremely horrified if she came running at me the way she does to her enemy. Her only fault is the Letter of Inheritance I receive upon her death. It seems only the first is an anchor. The ones following stack and do not share the same quality. There may be exceptions. I'm new to this kind of behavior.

--------

Not entirely related to thralls, I stumbled on a way to prevent the stages of Vampirism from advancing. There is a window of 10-15ms or so during the reddening of the screen to fast travel and interrupt stage pregression. Press "B" (or whatever button you use to access the rose) right about when the screen is totally red. It may be a notifier it has worked if upon arrival the red screen does a quick flash. It's odd-- and not very convenient or reliable... This discovery is to my thralls' credit. If it were not for their faulty AI, I would never have seen this.

I had been having an issue with summoning Dremora Lords for quite a while. I would cast, but no lord would spawn from Oblivion. If you access your magic panel, and then open Active Effects, it remedies the issue. I now don't have to do this, but it did persist for some time.

...Can't think of anything else... I'm sure there's more...

Edit: Yes, there is...

I observed an odd behavior in thralls when wielding daggers. I'm going to do a bit of testing later on, but I just wanted to make a few comments.

There initially appeared to be a correlation between the base damage of a weapon and either the base damage or total health of a foe with respect to a thrall displaying fear. Here is something that I don't think fits the bill: Despite wielding Borvir's Dagger, which is of Elven quality, a thrall will display fear. The only other time I've noticed fear in a thrall is when I'd given it an Iron dagger. This sparks my thinking cap. I am now wondering if the correlation is to the base value of the weapon and not base damage...
 
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HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
We're back for a fourth installment!

While I did not do an exhaustive test across several characters, (only two) I believe I can paint a decent picture as to explain my wonderings described in the last post. I am not 100% positive to the exact nature of Fear in thralls, but it most certainly can be narrowed down to a handful of variables: Percentage of health vs. percentage of enemy health or damage, range of weapon vs. enemy health or damage, and AI adopted when wielding a dagger vs. enemy health or damage. A formula may consider a combination of all these values as well; shan't forget.

As my aim of this experiment was to determine the relative nature of Fear in thralls, I did go about to try to work around its presentation. A rather odd solution revealed itself. You may, in fact, give a thrall any school of destruction staff to prevent your thrall from displaying Fear. This staff may have little or no charge. The result does not vary. I can only assume thralls adapt the left-hand designation of staves, therefore, adding it to their overall DPS. One word of caution: While a charged staff will have more "bang for its buck", the thrall AI will use it as a mage would, keeping distance and safely away from harm. For this reason, I advocate expending the entirety of its charge before giving one away.

So, if I may summarize: To prevent a thrall from exhibiting Fear when equipping it with a dagger of your choosing, Iron through Daedric, give it a staff as well. Your thralls will act like wild animals, regardless of the hunk of scrap in their hand.

------

Other stuff...

To my surprise, following a return home while roaming Falkreath for some time, Anise' inventory had refreshed-- and was no longer wearing any clothes. I recalled passing through Anise's Cabin during the venture, and it's hard not to draw a conclusion. Seeing as how she has been around, unchanged for several months-- and it isn't until I'd ran through her old cabin does she show any sign of life, I have the itching some bodies may behave as though they're still alive if you visit their old home after an extended period of time. Maybe the game thought that she had spawned anew, as though meeting her the first time... ...And it seems Anise's Cabin does not reset. Despite everything being flagged, it may be a grand place to take up residence with its Arcane Enchanter, Alchemy Lab, and other niceties. Her bed is even usable.

Grabbed Arvel the Swift from Bleak Falls in the same trip. He is most definitely weak. Even after tooling his armour into shape, he is hopeless. Luckily I have a Hide Shield of Major Blocking I can give him-- and then hopefully, he'll show more potential.

I made several attempts to save him from himself, and that's saying something. I managed to keep him alive until the swinging blades. After so many attempts, I gave into accepting, even though I can pull the lever in time, the Draugr awaken; and I, an all powerful necromancer, would rather just enslave his dead body.

The Ritual Master has some tricks up her sleeve. With some extended use, I have learned that she knows Banish. I do not know what level she has, but she will banish Storm Atronachs. And it was about this time that I noticed she has health regeneration... Yes, you heard me right! On top of this, she will heal herself with Fast Healing. Wearing no armour she is a tad squishy, but has some great staying power.

My last two additions include Butcher and Barkeep. Both of fantastic Dunmeri decent, and equally promising contributors to my morbid career. Huzzah!
 
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Harkin

Necromatic Mastermind
Theres an interesting spell high end necromancers and perhaps conjurors use - not sure if its banish but I was testing lu'ah lv 40 a.i when she cast some white orb like spell that applies fear on undead - worked on one of my thralls. Funny to see a guy claiming to be the master of the arcane - flee in terror!

Later noticed Movarth was using it vs Draugr when I lvl up. Sweet.
Also to Lu'ahs dissapointment it doesn't work on Ulfric - she was blown to death...then he laughed and walked back to his master!
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
^ That's definitely Turn Undead. I've never found any practical use for it, but maybe for a pure resto-mage(?) it could be handy.

I've been doing a lot of things for the first time on this playthrough. Just completed "In my time of need". Quite disheartened Kematu is not enthrallable at level 40. He may cap at 33 or 34-- or 37 as your traditional mercs and that do. Disheartened... I really wanted a dual-wielding Redguard warrior!

...hmmm... I don't want to play right now. It's going to take me a little while to get over this.

Edit:

Updated that list I compiled earlier.

Again, if anyone is able to confirm, correct or update the data presented, please do. Thank you.

Thrall Thread : Page 91 of Living with the dead
 
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HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
So, it seems you can get two anchors from friendlies' deaths. They don't always arrive on the first courier, but I'm quite sure they'll always be delivered separately... Just be careful not to place your several letters into a single container. They'll all morph into a single format of letters, respective to the first received letter of inheritance.

Neat stuff!

In other news...

I'm quite fed up with Arvel. He's totally hopeless. Bethesda obviously didn't want to him live for very long, in any scenario. Even with his armour improved to the maximum of my ability (Hide Armour = ~50 @ 27 Light Armour), he'll be blown out of the water. All well. Not a big loss, I suppose. Given his name, I just thought he'd be real swift... you know? Obviously he's swift in other areas, living not being one of them.

Naris the Wisked is neat. I picked him up on A Night to Remember. (Another quest I've never done.) I now understand why people like the Sanguine Rose.... It summons a bloody Dremora! ... Naris doesn't have a ton of mana, but he is fairly decent. He is, sadly, a pure mage. Has no inclination to staves or daggers...He does cast Flame Cloak. That's notable.

To aid me through Morvunskar, I picked up Aranea. Now this is a mage I am quite satisfied with. She is pure, but boy, does she have a punch! Icy Spear, Incinerate-- and I'm assuming Thunderbolt, as well; dual-cast. She'll change out for Ice Storm often times too (so far). Also, she summons Flame Atronachs. Awesome!

My favourite part about her is: Her unique gasps and such. They're quite amusing.

... I believe one of my next endeavors will be to see who's gasps and moans work well with eachother. Get a decent harmony going on.
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
While reading through some of Kohlar's blog I remembered of an unfortunate conclusion with Ahtar and Roggvir. After enthralling both and running around, neither will enter a city via fast travel. You need to go to stables or exit the city, and then re-enter to have them tow in. Also found that neither could be anchored. Rather unfortunate, but I kept the Headsman's Axe, even though it cannot be improved. I never tried waiting until after the execution to kill and enthrall Ahtar. He may have assumed a different behavior if I had. Who knows?
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
hmmm... Well, went and GR'd Aicantar. Unfortunately even after successfully doing so, you no longer have access to Understone Keep. Even a quick visit will result in an immediate removal of his body... I wonder how many others, if not all, residing in the main halls of walled cities abide by this rule. Quite lame. The guy summons Flame Atronach too! All well...

Noticed a peculiar trait in some newly acquired thralls. It seems for a short while some (may be a connection to some sort of civilian status), thralls keep a level of health regeneration. From my experiences, they'll lose it upon either their first death, or perhaps it may occur after a lengthy travel (over 6-8 hours). I don't have enough data to really make any conclusive statement. It's all just very odd.

The two who've exhibited this so far are: Captain Valmir and Knjakr. I'm actually in the process of seeing if Knjakr will lose his health regeneration in the next little while as Valmir had. Ritual Master, however, still benefits from health regeneration. I was saddened when the formerly affected Captain lost his.
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
Ok, I've put everything aside for my most desired ambition. With the new outline for a level 33 conjurer, I have also set out-- to make the central focal point of this build's/playthrough's purpose-- the very reason for my existence-- beyond all other relative goals I wish to carry out: Enthrall Faldrus. What I've learned thus far:

Faldrus will appear once every time you level up, but only if you reload the save prior to meeting him. I have not successfully been able to "spawn" him a second time in any instance, except with this workaround. I am aware Faldrus will disappear from the game even when left anchored, however, the big difference now is that I have access to Dead Thrall, and can potentially discover a means to keep him. The latter half of this idea is what has me so hesitant to begin experimenting. After all, what purpose in life would I have if Faldrus is not potential for permanency?

I've decided to try him at level 23, and hopefully learn something notable. Provided things go well, I will try again at 28, 29, and 40. I'm assuming he'll still be enthrallable at 40, though, a trial at 28 and 29 is, surely, appropriate.

....hmmm.... It's going to take me a while to gather the courage to get this on... Boy, oh, boy... Have you ever met a conjurer afraid of casting Dead Thrall with his eyes open? ..Well, now you have.
 

Harkin

Necromatic Mastermind
Where does he appear and what are the requirements? Certain Quest completion? Gonna look this guy up.
 

Adam Warlock

Well-Known Member
Where does he appear and what are the requirements? Certain Quest completion? Gonna look this guy up.
Faldrus is a random encounter.
he has radiant level up to 46 so u must meet him when he is lvl 40 or lower.
he is scripted to disappear once the cell he is in is purged from memory.
an anchor MIGHT keep him with u if he is continuously thralled or remains in your cell but i doubt you can leave him behind and expect permanent corpse.
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
Sadly it's all a no-go. Bastard disappears as soon as you leave his cell no matter what. I mean, I knew he was scripted to, but I was crossing my fingers it might change if he were to remain enthralled... All well... Strangely enough, I'm no where near as heartbroken as I thought I would be. Perhaps all this time all I really needed was closure.

I'll be adding him to the list of NPCs who are removed unconditionally, alongside that chick (of whom I'll need to look for a name) that travels with that other guy and the Imperial guard on their way to the wedding.
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
Where does he appear and what are the requirements? Certain Quest completion? Gonna look this guy up.

No requirements. You can run into him as quickly as the third random. I say third because Balbus usually spawns first and then the Imperials south of Whiterun. You might be able to trigger him earlier if you go a different way. I don't know.

Edit:

he has radiant level up to 46 so u must meet him when he is lvl 40 or lower.

Is there a way you can tell if a radiant 1-46 needs to be enthralled/killed at 28? Both Bashnag and Drelas are radiant 1-46 and require you to kill them earlier than 40... Like, what's the deal with that?
 
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Harkin

Necromatic Mastermind
Ahh today was a great day, mildly saddened by the dissapearance of Chief Ymarz, who unfortunately vanished between my few hundred saves which is alot of progress.

Looking at it from a not so bad perspective, he was just a hp pool, no real combat specialties, though I did have fun giving him Volendrung and watch him solo dragons. Luckily I nabbed that back!

Glad I didn't lose a mage...

Got alot done on my Orc today, who is now Full Clad in Ancient Nord armour with the Helm of Yngol, looks so beastly!

Worked out all my enchantments, with decent limitations to prevent Overpowering, also no attribute bonuses from gear, making every point in attribute evermore important - No hp stam mag pool boosts, only school reductions.

Also had to test regens because of aiming for vamp, wanted to counter stage weaknesses but again not OP. Still dying on adept and Legendary still a thrill. Chuffed on my progress.

Currently trying to start Purity Quest so I can Un-Wolf and contract Sanguinaris from my very own thrall Movarth Piquine!

Though both Vilkas and Farkas being a pain not giving the quest, Uesp says witch heads help, attempting retrials.

So awesome having a plan of action (Now using my profile as a place to jot my plans)
 
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HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
That's like the most fun thing about loading up: Deciding on a material and then enchanting to the point where it just helps. I don't get any enjoyment out of running through everything either.

Couple things I decided to look up today: Necromancer Amulet and Ebony Blade. Though neither are entirely related to thralls, the Necromancer amulet made my jaw drop. Like, I never realized you were actually supposed to get something from that "Strange Amulet". In all my playthroughs, it's either been stuck in my inventory or flagged as stolen... Looking at the guide for the quest, it seems I've done it every way except the right way. Then the Ebony Blade is an artifact I'd heard about, but always figured it was DLC. Never has the Bannered Mare bartender relayed that dialogue to me! ...Hopefully this time around I'll successfully initiate that quest...

In other news, I'm proud to say I've enthralled Fjola. She will be forever at my command. *"Never Gonna Let you Go" playing in background*

I was surprised she spawned with an Ebony Shield at level 32, but that's all in the cards now, isn't it? It was with that behavior I observed thralls will equip Iron Shields when passive, and then equip a higher grade in combat; odd.

I don't have high priority to collect as many notable bodies this time through. My main ambition is just to collect those affected by <1.0 level multipliers. Savos Aren is next on my list. There's much of a dilemma journeying that path, but I'm willing to bear it provided other prerequisites are met. Another biggie for me is a decision to refrain from purchasing a house. Maybe it doesn't sound important to you other necros surfing the webs, but this one loves Vlindrel Hall. The three book cases make me whirl, zip, and dance all through the day!

edit: Oh, yes, and I was saddened Fjola doesn't do the same thing as Iron-Hand. Iron-Hand, when stripped, will spawn with gauntlets (if you take his Iron-Hand gauntlets) which, in turn, allows you to give his helm back. Fjola doesn't spawn a pair. All well... One of the Mistwatch Bandits spawned in Steel Plate Armour & Gauntlets, and Iron Boots & Helm, so I'm satisfied.
 

Harkin

Necromatic Mastermind
Necromancer Amulet isn't all that great, looks nice but reduces hp and stamina regen by 75% while gives conjuration school a 25% reduction.

Still worth value and better than Strange Amulet.

Vlindrell hall is my home aswell, just so spacious and a nice atmosphere in general.

Can anyone confirm the thrall cap for ulfric WITH Necromage?

Stuck at lvl 33 for now which is fine whilst I'm still rounding up quests, done Purity now so I am ready for Vamp. Not sure on how the Necromage increase works.

Pretty sure Adam will know, if not I'll run my own tests.

Lately been improving vilkas equipment because he is an exploitable follower, so I was bouting him vs Movarth, but he gets his hide whooped so hard because of vampire aggressiveness! Vilkas was blocking with 2H taking hits because there's no time to counter lol.

I managed to improve his equips, looks awesome in Ebony Mail, also gonna give him 'That Club'
 

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