Thrall Thread : Living with the dead

I'm developing a list of papers in the game that do not anchor. I have three to list so far:

Mara Smiles Upon You!
Anise's Letter
Beware the Butcher!

I was very sad to see "Mara Smiles Upon You!" didn't work. I wanted to put it on Yamarz' body. The fact "Anise's Letter" doesn't work suggests notes with the same design might not as well. I'm unsure why "Beware the Butcher!" notes work for some and not others. I wonder if only a number of them are tagged. I'll be keeping them to test at a later date.

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So, I ran by Lucky's to find he was gone. I was very disturbed by this. I didn't realize there were corpses that would despawn after having discovered them. I'll run by his dilapidated love shack in a couple weeks, crossing my fingers he'll reappear. *sigh*

A-Ha!! Success! ...Well, actually this is more of a development. For the first time ever I've witnessed, with my very own eyes, a mage Dremora using his weapon. It comes down to when facing one foe: The Flame Atronach. Obviously it's because he realizes he can't use firebolt against a fire elemental-- but, hey, this is the first I've ever seen this happen. Exciting!

Judging by the basis of this post, you may presume I am beginning some more thorough investigations towards the nature of Dremora spawn types. I'm going to focus exclusively on the Shalidor's Maze dremoras for this, as all three kinds of dremora, mage, conjuring, and melee type, spawn here. I have kept a hard save of my current playthrough before I'd advanced and did all that gross leveling stuff. You can expect, from this, I will be running through Shalidor's Maze more times than I care to think of right now, to observe and-- perhaps even predict which types you'll encounter at any given level.

Before we begin, I would like to note: These dremora types most likely have everything to do with their radiant dremora class, i.e. Kynreeve, Churl, etc., and so, this study will be limited to dremora classes 1 - 36. Provided I feel ambitious to analyze beyond this is quite low.... Sorry, my determination only goes so far.

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In other news, lots of interesting things have transpired over the last couple days with my vampiric necromage. We headed up to Shroud Hearth and enthralled Wyndelius. Voice clips intact! I'm sure I'd read about this in early pages, but it's still a thrill to hear it for yourself.

"Hmm... Does someone live among the dead?" ...

Besides having a very hard time with cliffs, stairs, corners, and walkways as every other mage does, I am very much impressed by this faux-apparition. He'll use any second tier spell. This includes Lightning Bolt, Firebolt, and Ice Spike. Sadly, he does not interchange between them in one sitting. So, if he's decided to use Ice Spike against a Frost Troll and Ice Wraith, that's going to be your problem. Also, I have yet to witness him cast any healing spells. This is also a downside, especially for a mage, but as with most AI shortfalls, there are workarounds.

Nest on the list: I am unsure if anyone has uncovered the secret of where thralls go when you enter Dark Brotherhood sanctuary. Wyndelius goes back to Shroud Hearth Barrow. I'll assume with this, most thralls will run back "home" when left unattended. I have no idea where an Old Orc would go were he to be trapped outside DBS. Maybe he'd run back to where you killed him...

I encountered "Bouncer". Rather odd name, but his AI is fitting. Everytime you travel through a 'long' loading screen or fast travel, he will bounce over... Anyways, mine was allegedly torn down by a thief in glass armour; although, given his performance thus far, I'm guessing he just fell over.

Last note: While picking up Azura's Star from Ilinata's Deep, I learned Arch Necromancers are out of reach for enthralling at level 40. My guess is, they resist at level 37 as [I believe] the mercenaries do. Master Necromancers are all right however.

...Oh, yes... just a remembrance: That necromancer near Ivaarstad has to be one of the saddest necromancers I've ever known. I almost feel bad for killing him... Then again, releasing the dead birds from his spell must be considered a good deed, right? Even if they don't have souls...

Here are the results:

Entering Shalidor's Maze from 1 - 11 spawns a Dremora Churl, 12 - 18 spawns a Dremora Caitiff, 19 - 26 spawns a Dremora Kynval, 27 - 35 spawns a Dremora Kynreeve, 36 - 45 spawns a Dremora Markynaz, and, finally, 46 - ? spawns a Dremora Valkynaz.

None of these dremora have knowledge of healing or flesh spells. Churls and Caitiffs of Shalidor's Maze do not know any spells at all. It isn't until Kynval, at level 19, that the spell, Flame Atronach, appears. Kynval know nothing else, and neither do Kynreeves. It isn't until Markynaz begin spawning at level 36, do we see these dremora cast Flame Wall. Valkynaz don't know anything more, but are, as we all know, unenthrallable... (I like that made-up word...)

I would like to point out, you can definitely level to 45 and continue to see Dremora Markynaz spawn for enthralling.

Small thing regarding the dremora from Azura's Star: It's kind of neat these Dremora Markynaz "level up" once they've been enthralled. Malyn may have been a skilled conjurer, but it is clear the Dragonborn is more so. When fighting these Markynaz, they'll cast Fireball and Firebolt. When they're under your control, they know of Incinerate. Really cool!

I am curious if anyone has figured out how to keep Salma? Everywhere I go claims she disappears after leaving Iron Bind. It is painfully true too. I did eventually read in this thread someone noticed a dragon claw can act like an anchor and more. Perhaps this has been proven false by now, but I'd still like to hear about it.

Thanks

Edit: Made it to page 60... Whoo! This thread is a bloody marathon...

Adam, I'm going to have to play with Expel Daedra a lot more. I almost always cast it around Wights & Scourges, but there is also an event when cast on Dremora? ...Very interesting...

HouseHosted said:

I am curious if anyone has figured out how to keep Salma? Everywhere I go claims she disappears after leaving Iron Bind. It is painfully true too. I did eventually read in this thread someone noticed a dragon claw can act like an anchor and more. Perhaps this has been proven false by now, but I'd still like to hear about it.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Tried any number of ways to prevent Salma`s erasure but whether living or dead she departs the game after her quest concludes.
Her companion Beem-Ja makes a fine thrall however if he is anchored.

Adam Warlock said:

HouseHosted said:

I am curious if anyone has figured out how to keep Salma? Everywhere I go claims she disappears after leaving Iron Bind. It is painfully true too. I did eventually read in this thread someone noticed a dragon claw can act like an anchor and more. Perhaps this has been proven false by now, but I'd still like to hear about it.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Tried any number of ways to prevent Salma`s erasure but whether living or dead she departs the game after her quest concludes.
Her companion Beem-Ja makes a fine thrall however if he is anchored.

Click to expand...

Some dragon claws are permanent , some are not.
Sell to merchant or recycle claws through a respawning NPC you can return to to separate the good ones from the bad ones.

Earlier i would use the Draugr at Hamvir`s Rest to recycle/check items . Nowadays i just sell everything i acquire to my dremora merchant, permanent items by nature will always remain in his inventory and i can summons him to retrieve them any time/place i want.

It should be remembered that certain items may lose permanency if mishandled by dropping into the world.

Adam Warlock said:

Tried any number of ways to prevent Salma`s erasure but whether living or dead she departs the game after her quest concludes.

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I was afraid of this. I just learned this occurs with Eisa as well. I know she'll head out to Morthal or Dawnstar Inn-- I don't remember which, and stay there until you complete the quest. Too bad that she also leaves Skyrim unconditionally.

Some dragon claws are permanent , some are not.
Sell to merchant or recycle claws through a respawning NPC you can return to to separate the good ones from the bad ones.

Earlier i would use the Draugr at Hamvir`s Rest to recycle/check items . Nowadays i just sell everything i acquire to my dremora merchant, permanent items by nature will always remain in his inventory and i can summons him to retrieve them any time/place i want.

It should be remembered that certain items may lose permanency if mishandled by dropping into the world.

Click to expand...

Yea, after making it to page 60 there was talk about items losing their permanency. Since reading about that, I've been painting a pretty clear picture of a behavior in notes, which anchor and which don't. Seems like every note that is wihtin a container will anchor, and every one that is out in the open does not. There are a couple exceptions I've found so far. Letter to (or from/?) Beem-Ja and Letter to (or from/?) Salma do not anchor. It's a decent rule, I think.

This is all besides the point however. What I was wondering is: In your experience, do claws, or possibly other items, act as super anchors? What I mean is, they may anchor a body that may not gain permanency from a note,

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Not truly related to enthralling, but.... I've fallen in love with the Ritual Stone. It has opened my eyes to a new horizon of possibilities and ideas... I just grabbed the two giant Frostbite spiders from Harmugstahl-- and they will cast their cloaks when aggro'ed. WOW! It is so exciting! I mean, I wish I had enough anchors to keep all the spiders, but that's okay...

I believe my first task upon the adoption of this power is: To amass an army of giant Frostbite spiders at Whiterun and send them in to attack the giant at the nearby farm. It will be wonderful!

Oh, yes, and Fjola, as mentioned in earlier pages, resists at 40. It appears the poster was not joking when he stated she is unenthrallable by level 34... Like, that's even lower than Ulfric or Tullius! That's just not fair!

On the plus side, the list of thrall level caps across NPCs is working itself up. As much as I'm hoping there aren't too many others that fall into this category, it is very neat at the same time. I really do appreciate the diversity amidst NPCs when studying to be a necromancer. Bethesda have shown quite a lot of care in making it a valuable-- and rewarding play style.

..Haha... but, I bet you miss your undead skirmishes, Adam!

Well, I guess the spider army can't really be done. I'm assuming it could have been done a long time ago without the patches... Okay, if I were crazy determined I could pull it off, but that would involve a lot of wasted time and... determination... On the plus side, the Hormurgstahl spiders respawn there. Now I reallly wish I'd anchored them all...

Anyway, has anyone figured out if Call to Arms works on thralls/living dead? Unlike Rally or Courage, Call to Arms doesn't give off the glowy effect (with bubbly things). I guess I should try testing it out for myself, but I'm not actually sure how to... If I took a weak thrall and attacked him with a weak weapon, that would work, wouldn't it? I'm just worried thrall DR or attack damage is not constant.

Anyone else experimenting with the mind control spider thrall combo? (pg 86) It seems to be a major game changer, as it makes almost any thrall (with decent combat AI) viable with custom equipment. Only downside is it can take forever to get it to work.

You can also combine it with Adam's ahzidal ring glitch to give any thrall ignite and freeze.

I currently have Kesh the Clean, Volk (dawngaurd), Rulindil, Stalleo, and Safia all spider thralled. I plan on adding Commander Maro, Captain Avidius, and Lieutenant Salvarus (all Hail Sithis!) to that group if they prove perma with anchoring.

^ I think it's a neat glitch, but I don't much care to exploit it. Each to his own.

Well, folks, I've decided to try the 30 day wait to see what happens to my current lineup of bodies... And, I'll admit, the results are... strange. I realize there have been many tests done with this step, but there is an underlining to my reason. The exact nature was actually brought about by a side-effect of enthralling Ondolemar. It appears, you may have, in your entourage, two additional Thalmor Soldiers at your disposal after enthralling Ondolemar. Here is what I've learned:

These two Thalmor will follow you to the end of the Reach region and no farther if fast traveling. So, if you went and fast traveled to Bruca's Leap, along these soldiers would follow. Joy! Just think of all the possibilities... There are a few issues that these NPCs exhibit:

1. They will not attack anything that is not directly a threat to them. This means, unless the aggressor is within shouting range-- and is hostile to them specifically, they will do absolutely nothing!

2. They are both ridiculously weak. On Legendary difficulty they are quickly cut down. Obviously they can be healed, but honestly, who has the time? Forsworn Ravagers pick them apart like meat off a drumstick.

3. When killed they will respawn in 30 days, (now you know
what I was curious about) as long as you are out of Markarth (Understone Keep, I'm sure, may be the root area).

4. It is very easy to break their "follower" script. If you ever reload an auto after entering a dungeon-- basically, they follow the same traits as thralls, except that they'll completely disappear. To reacquire them, you'll need to fast travel back to Markarth. When this doesn't work, have no fear! Simply kill Ondolemar and re-enthrall. Then fast travel back to Markarth (even if you're already there) and they should be back.

5. ...Oh, and if you're a vampire, beware! They will become hostile on sight (stage 4). 'Course, there is no real threat. Ondolemar will slaughter them for you.

This is all very exciting, right? Oh, I'm sure! Every necromancer from here to Hammerfell will want a piece o' this action!

Other insights from my 30 day wait were realized after checking up on my collection. Here are the results:

Of Alain Dufont, Frofnir Trollsbane, Vigilant Tyranus, Weylin, Anise, Susanna the Wicked, naked Highwayman, Sebastien Lort, Sild the Warlock, Lu'ah Al-Skaven, Kornalus, Beem-Ja, Madanach, two Azura's Star Markynaz, Shalidor's Maze Markynaz, Drelas, Vals Veran, Wyndelius Gatharian, Bashnag, J'darr, Borkul the Beast, Hajvarr Iron-Hand, Umana, Adventurer (from Hormurgstahl), Chief Yamarz, Atar, Old Orc, Sulla Trebatius, and Ghunzul only a few changes occured.

Despite being anchored by Trollsbane, Trollsbane disappeared, the naked Highwayman disappeared, and lastly, the two Azura's Star Markynaz disappeared. Personally, the most puzzling has to be that the two Markynaz from Azura's Star disappeared, yet, the one from Shalidor's Maze did not. I suspect, though, it is not possible to re-enter Azura's Star, this area does, in fact, reset. Who knows?

Anyways, just some neat stuff... I've enjoyed this test, especially in uncovering the workings behind the Thalmor Soldiers. That's really so cool!

HouseHosted said:

Other insights from my 30 day wait were realized after checking up on my collection. Here are the results:

Of Alain Dufont, Frofnir Trollsbane, Vigilant Tyranus, Weylin, Anise, Susanna the Wicked, naked Highwayman, Sebastien Lort, Sild the Warlock, Lu'ah Al-Skaven, Kornalus, Beem-Ja, Madanach, two Azura's Star Markynaz, Shalidor's Maze Markynaz, Drelas, Vals Veran, Wyndelius Gatharian, Bashnag, J'darr, Borkul the Beast, Hajvarr Iron-Hand, Umana, Adventurer (from Hormurgstahl), Chief Yamarz, Atar, Old Orc, Sulla Trebatius, and Ghunzul only a few changes occured.

Click to expand...

Man, you are missing out on some great thralls. You need to go out hunting. Really wish a couple of those on your list didn't level past the cap... I'd still be rocking Borkul the Beast regularly.

Also mildly surprised Ghunzul didn't disappear after a 30 day. Usually him, Krev, and Rigel respawn after long waits.

Imrah said:

Man, you are missing out on some great thralls. You need to go out hunting. Really wish a couple of those on your list didn't level past the cap... I'd still be rocking Borkul the Beast regularly.

Also mildly surprised Ghunzul didn't disappear after a 30 day. Usually him, Krev, and Rigel respawn after long waits.

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There are a few on my list still. I need to go pick up Haldyn. I've just been too scared to do it yet. Those Blood Horkers are a stress inducing bunch, I tell you! Rigel is on my list, but I've been putting her off because I want to approach Pinewatch as a tourist. (I'm still in HA warrior mode for now.) ...hmmm... Actually I can't think of any others right now. I know there are though. Who'd you recommend? ...Besides Fjola, Ulfric, and Tullius since I've gone beyond level 33; 40 now.

Late last night I grabbed Malkoran with the help of the Champ. Malkoran is, by far, the scariest thrall in the game... Not only does it look like he always wants to fight me, I don't know if his action skill/ultimate attack wild card will aid me or slaughter me. I'm putting him away for safe keeping, until I can best his life after death without cowering in a corner.

I'm quite impressed with the Champ. The Dunmer thrall clips are amusing. Several of the battle cries and being assaulted utterations make me smile... This reminds me Faldrus is on my list. Sadly he showed up for me early (like he's scripted to) and hasn't reappeared. I've read he'll make his way to Azura's, but he isn't there. I fear I may have lost my chance at enthralling him-- again.

Oh, I've also decided to collect all the housecarls. After buying Vlindrel (best house ever!), I mercilessly executed Argis. When I can afford it, (I'm a broke bastard) I'll be purchasing Honeyside.

Edit: Sorry, to answer your surprised remark: I haven't gone through with Pieces of the Past yet. This goes the same for Atar. I've purposely left that quest open for now. Eventually I'll complete them. I'm just not ready to yet. I like having all my ducks in a row, you know?

Not encountered Faldrus, seems interesting but i've already done Azura stuff, been waay too busy with Borderlands 1 lately - Got B1 and B2 double game for a Fiver(£5) so Skyrims gonna have 2 wait a long time hahaha.

^ Yea, I did a bit more digging. It seems once he;s spawned, he'll disappear from the game as soon as you leave the cell. There is a possibility that he'll be involved in a later encounter dead, but good luck on that one. I'm crossing my fingers I'll see him again regardless.

...By 'Borderlands 1' do you mean: Borderlands a.k.a. The one & only true Borderlands?

Let me know if you come across a TCH.W Red Destroyer. 18mag, 300 stock, shock accessory, w/ 2.9x scope-- and preferably level 55-58... ...It's a dream! ...

So, eventually I'll update that list I made earlier, and give it a hyperlink... But, for now, I'm just going to write a few things I've learned.

Those who resist Dead Thrall:

Logrulf the Willful
Brother Verulus
All of Boethiah's Cultists, including the sacrifice
Gavras Pinius

Those who are removed from the game unconditionally:

Salma of Ironbind Barrow
Eisa of Frostmere Crypt
Agna of Hillgrund's Tomb
Orthorn of Fellglow Keep

NPCs that are too powerful for Dead Thrall at level 40 (excluding those listed earlier):

Fjola of Mistwatch
Forsworn Briarhearts
Volkihar Master Vampires
Arch Necromancers
Mercenaries
Savos Aren
hostile race-named NPCs, e.g. Wood Elf
race-named NPCs that can be taunted

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Now I actually wonder if the "pushers" cannot be enthralled at 40 also. They are technically race-named, i.e. Khajiit. So, I think I'll have to try that out.

HouseHosted said:

^ Yea, I did a bit more digging. It seems once he;s spawned, he'll disappear from the game as soon as you leave the cell. There is a possibility that he'll be involved in a later encounter dead, but good luck on that one. I'm crossing my fingers I'll see him again regardless.

...By 'Borderlands 1' do you mean: Borderlands a.k.a. The one & only true Borderlands?

Let me know if you come across a TCH.W Red Destroyer. 18mag, 300 stock, shock accessory, w/ 2.9x scope-- and preferably level 55-58... ...It's a dream! ...

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Haha, well yeah the original Borderlands, but i'll be playing 2 aswell once I get through 1 - theres not really a story at the moment, good shooter obviously but I need some sort of motivation to continue, hopefully it will pick up.

Lmao@ Red Destroyer - is that some sort of Combat Rifle?

Really funny how items respawn every Save & Quit, so I was Opening about 6 weapon chests every Load, theres 1 area where you can farm weps real easy, ace.

HouseHosted said:

Edit: Sorry, to answer your surprised remark: I haven't gone through with Pieces of the Past yet. This goes the same for Atar. I've purposely left that quest open for now. Eventually I'll complete them. I'm just not ready to yet. I like having all my ducks in a row, you know?

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Ah, that might be it then. Atar definitely disappeared on me after that quest ended, and i tried ending it both ways to keep him.

There are a few on my list still. I need to go pick up Haldyn. I've just been too scared to do it yet. Those Blood Horkers are a stress inducing bunch, I tell you! Rigel is on my list, but I've been putting her off because I want to approach Pinewatch as a tourist. (I'm still in HA warrior mode for now.) ...hmmm... Actually I can't think of any others right now. I know there are though. Who'd you recommend? ...Besides Fjola, Ulfric, and Tullius since I've gone beyond level 33; 40 now.

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I just checked all of my thrall drops and did a head count last night. I've got 50 bodies floating around between my two necromancers. Yikes. I only have thralls, for the most part, who are permanent (they will anchor indefinitely and they are under the level cap) and are of fighting quality (lvl 15-40, reasonable combat AI). I'll make a short list and if you'd like more I can certainly elaborate.

Melee:
Commander Maro + Safia from DB questline
Sarthis Idren and Orini Dral from "The Raid"
Galmar Stone-Fist from Civil War
Golldir- With Golldir, him tomb home base is out of the way and he is one of the few followers with any perks. Such a waste. So I induct him into the Blades and then kill and thrall him. Members of the blades who die become permanent corpses AND the full set of Blades armor becomes their default armor set upon death. Give him a war axe and let him loose.

Mage:
Definitely get Haldyn, he rules.
Hamelyn, Skeever King, from Thieves Guild quest
Anska- Similar to Golldir, but not a potential follower. After completing her quest anchor her down and she is a fireball machine. Think she casts flame atronach too, but im hazy.

Archer:
Telrav from Nilheim. Also recommend you pick up a generic "Guard" named bandit from there, they are solid fighters.
J'datharr - But he disappears if you ever complete the quest. Hardly necessary to do so, though.
Uraccen and Odvan- These guys are more hybrids, as they will use bow sword and defensive magic. You did the escape from cidhna mine already, but these two are the most useful of the lot as they don't scale past the level cap. Their bodies are permanent without anchoring in certain situations. Fun to play with as a team.

If you choose to join the Vampys then when you cull the dawnguard Sorine Jurard, Florentius Baenius, Beleval, and Agmaer all become anchorable and stay under cap.

Harkin said:

Lmao@ Red Destroyer - is that some sort of Combat Rifle?

Really funny how items respawn every Save & Quit, so I was Opening about 6 weapon chests every Load, theres 1 area where you can farm weps real easy, ace.

Click to expand...

Oh, I see. You're one of those persons-who-haven't-played-Borderlands-before persons... At first I was overcome by pity. But, now since that has subsided, I implore you to game your face off.

Imrah said:

Ah, that might be it then. Atar definitely disappeared on me after that quest ended, and i tried ending it both ways to keep him.

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Scripted removals are the bane of a necromancer... Honestly, why do I go on if I can't keep my favourites?

Speaking of which, I am having trouble anchoring Ancano. I just finished up the College. Along the way, I've picked up Peratus, whom is actually quite favourable. His only shortcoming thus far is that he'll cast his Flame Atronach and then immediately cast his Storm Cloak... I grieve for her loss every time.

Melee:
Commander Maro + Safia from DB questline
Sarthis Idren and Orini Dral from "The Raid"
Galmar Stone-Fist from Civil War
Golldir- With Golldir, him tomb home base is out of the way and he is one of the few followers with any perks. Such a waste. So I induct him into the Blades and then kill and thrall him. Members of the blades who die become permanent corpses AND the full set of Blades armor becomes their default armor set upon death. Give him a war axe and let him loose.

Click to expand...

I haven't quite made up my mind with the Dark Brotherhood timeline yet. Well, I've decided to side with them, only I mean, I don't know who I'll be keeping around. Commander Maro seems like a decent choice and so does his son. I'm not planning on making his son kill his father, I swear...

I have progressed to speaking to Mortierre. I decided to keep Hern around for giggles... also, he has a voice actor I haven't come across in a thrall yet; same as Lod's.

I don't recall who Sarthis is. I'll have to look that up.

The Civil War is another timeline I'm no where near actualizing. The various bugs along the way-- and all the disappearing bodies makes it hard for me to go through with...

I've actually decided to keep Golldir around as a follower. I didn't realize he had Hack & Slash(?) for war axes. Good tip!

Mage:
Definitely get Haldyn, he rules.
Hamelyn, Skeever King, from Thieves Guild quest
Anska- Similar to Golldir, but not a potential follower. After completing her quest anchor her down and she is a fireball machine. Think she casts flame atronach too, but im hazy

Click to expand...

Literally picking up Haldyn as soon as I can anchor Ancano... GAH! What is the matter with this Altmer? At first, I thought it was tied into starting Aftershocks, but he still disappears. I don't know what to do about him.

Hamelyn & Anska? Good idea. I haven't started the Thieves Guild yet, however, will remember to grab him. I'd thought about keeping Anska around on my last necromancer, but had entirely forgotten about her. Thanks.

Archer:
Telrav from Nilheim. Also recommend you pick up a generic "Guard" named bandit from there, they are solid fighters.
J'datharr - But he disappears if you ever complete the quest. Hardly necessary to do so, though.
Uraccen and Odvan- These guys are more hybrids, as they will use bow sword and defensive magic. You did the escape from cidhna mine already, but these two are the most useful of the lot as they don't scale past the level cap. Their bodies are permanent without anchoring in certain situations. Fun to play with as a team

Click to expand...

All of these are possibilities. I'm not sure at this point. A return to Cidhna Mine sounds agreeable though. I had actually thought about keeping Dryston around, though, along with some side-tracking and save overwriting, he left Skyrim indefinitely.

If you choose to join the Vampys then when you cull the dawnguard Sorine Jurard, Florentius Baenius, Beleval, and Agmaer all become anchorable and stay under cap.

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I don't have any of the DLC installed. I don't have much interest in them whatsoever. Good info for someone else.

Okay... Ancano is quite the tricky bastard. Just as sly in death as he is in life. Circumstances to keep Ancano indefinitely w/ anchoR: Please read additional notes in next post for Ancano.

1. Enthrall
2. Start Aftershock
3. Fast travel to walled city and enter a building
4. Reload auto after entering building
5. Fast travel to another walled city

He will most likely not be visible in this entire process as thrall AIs have issues with walled cities and reloading. This isn't any issue. Once you find him, remember to place an anchor on his person and he'll remain permanent.

If it doesn't work for you, try traveling to the farthest walled city from your location. I believe there is some validity to having an amount of time spent "in the air" for these kinds of bugs to come about.

Tough cookie; that Ancano. I tried dumping my entire stash of items: Misc, armour, weapons, unique, Balbus' fork... and anchors alike all disappeared with his body after two days time. The saving grace, I believe, is that he will travel with you, and not simply vanish like some generic NPCs. This allows for some removal scripts to be "voided", for lack of a better word. Excellent!