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Twiffle

Well-Known Member
Well hi there you all again, but to cut to the chase I need a build with a new outlook.
I've done nearly all builds and a few I have experimented with myself,
So, what I'm looking for is this, a pure mage without destruction or any combat skills to play on either master or expert, is it possible to do?
So your ideas and input would be so appreciated.
 

ambiiientz

Member
Would a Necromancer/Conjurer, non combat, controller of the battlefield qualify as a Pure Mage in your opinion?
 

Twiffle

Well-Known Member
Yep, have to say conjuration and necromancy is an area I have tried, but never mastered, enlighten me further
 

Nocte Aeterna

Sir Not-Appearing-in-This-Film
Conjuration can be used in conjunction with Illusion in place of Destruction if you wish. Leave killing up to your conjured minion, and Fury or Calm an enemy if they get too close to you. As for the other skill trees, I'd recommend Restoration and Alteration on any mage.
 

ColleenG

When in doubt, follow the fox.
I'd like to know if any of these things actually work. I always get, "Bandit is too powerful for calm" messages. "Mudcrab is too powerful for calm". No matter how hard I try, mage powers just never seem to equal good ol sword and board or archery. I use mage powers for amusement and leveling.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
I'd like to know if any of these things actually work. I always get, "Bandit is too powerful for calm" messages. "Mudcrab is too powerful for calm". No matter how hard I try, mage powers just never seem to equal good ol sword and board or archery. I use mage powers for amusement and leveling.
Yeah. Calm pretty much sucks. I wait until I get pacify before i even try to use it. Calm does work on the citizens of Whiterun though. I use it when I'm ripping off the Battleborns.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
I'd like to know if any of these things actually work. I always get, "Bandit is too powerful for calm" messages. "Mudcrab is too powerful for calm". No matter how hard I try, mage powers just never seem to equal good ol sword and board or archery. I use mage powers for amusement and leveling.
BTW - a mudcrab is too powerful? That's some mudcrab!
 

Pete

Well-Known Member
Calm works well once I've got enough points and work up the tree. Muffle is a great way to start building it up. Once I take the perk 'Calm works on animals', I'm set. I can really make good use of it in the field and move quickly up the perks to where calm works even on dawnguard patrol leaders.

As for the pure mage build, why not consider using staffs. You will need someway to defend yourself - if your not using destruction. Is a mage who conjures up a bow or sword a real pure mage? Not if you have to take 1H or Bow perks. If you go off the game model, your act of desperation is using a dagger. No reason to 1H perk up that.

The next question is, are you going to chug-alog potions during a battle to keep your magika up? I use the rule of if I am being physically attacked I can't take a potion. My mages get into trouble when i'm surprised in close quarters and can't find an exit route fast enough. So early game I use followers as much as possible. 1 follower, 1 undead and me seems to work pretty well on expert (early game).

My schools would be: alteration, illusion, conjuration, restoration (esp for wards against dragons)
Weapons: staffs and dagger
Only mage clothes

Have fun!
 

Nocte Aeterna

Sir Not-Appearing-in-This-Film
I'd like to know if any of these things actually work. I always get, "Bandit is too powerful for calm" messages. "Mudcrab is too powerful for calm". No matter how hard I try, mage powers just never seem to equal good ol sword and board or archery. I use mage powers for amusement and leveling.

Dualcasting is your friend. That perk allows your spells to affect higher level enemies.

But yeah, offensive Illusion is garbage unless you perk it. That's why it's more suitable for assassins (Muffle and Invisibility).
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
Calm works well once I've got enough points and work up the tree. Muffle is a great way to start building it up. Once I take the perk 'Calm works on animals', I'm set. I can really make good use of it in the field and move quickly up the perks to where calm works even on dawnguard patrol leaders.

As for the pure mage build, why not consider using staffs. You will need someway to defend yourself - if your not using destruction. Is a mage who conjures up a bow or sword a real pure mage? Not if you have to take 1H or Bow perks. If you go off the game model, your act of desperation is using a dagger. No reason to 1H perk up that.

The next question is, are you going to chug-alog potions during a battle to keep your magika up? I use the rule of if I am being physically attacked I can't take a potion. My mages get into trouble when i'm surprised in close quarters and can't find an exit route fast enough. So early game I use followers as much as possible. 1 follower, 1 undead and me seems to work pretty well on expert (early game).

My schools would be: alteration, illusion, conjuration, restoration (esp for wards against dragons)
Weapons: staffs and dagger
Only mage clothes

Have fun!
Absolutely agree with re the staffs. My mage always keeps a few on hand - usually chain lightning, fireball and ice storm. In a pinch, they come in handy, especially if you're low on magicka while it rebuilds.

As to your potions notion - you are completely right. I almost never use potions for magicka. If you're judicious and use your magicka right, you really don't need them. I don't use followers, but the occassional shambling corpse does come in handy as does the ability to run like heck away from a situation and then lay in wait for them so you can finish them off. You'd be surprised how effective a raised giant frostbite spider can be against your foes, as can wolves and trolls. I like to get the ritual stone when I get over towards Whiterun, expecially at lower levels since it's saved my butt quite a few times.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
I'd like to know if any of these things actually work. I always get, "Bandit is too powerful for calm" messages. "Mudcrab is too powerful for calm". No matter how hard I try, mage powers just never seem to equal good ol sword and board or archery. I use mage powers for amusement and leveling.

Dualcasting is your friend. That perk allows your spells to affect higher level enemies.

But yeah, offensive Illusion is garbage unless you perk it. That's why it's more suitable for assassins (Muffle and Invisibility).
Agreed. On everything except destruction. With Destruction, unless you're going to take the stagger perk, it just eats up magicka without really giving you the impact of simply casting 2 spells. If you double cast and it was 2x+ @ 1-1.5x you'd be good to go, but it doesn't work that way.

I agree that muffle and invisibility aren't really useful to a non-sneaky mage, but they certainly do up your illusion quickly with very little effort.
 

Nocte Aeterna

Sir Not-Appearing-in-This-Film
Which brings me to another issue: The leveling speed in the magic schools are effed the eff up.

Use Muffle twice? Level Illusion once.

Use Soul Trap, conjure an Atronach four times, use another soul trap, sacrifice a goat to a dragon atop Mt. Anthor? Level Conjuration once.

Basically, in nearly every playthrough I've done that had me using conjuration, it took ages to level said skill.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
Which brings me to another issue: The leveling speed in the magic schools are effed the eff up.

Use Muffle twice? Level Illusion once.

Use Soul Trap, conjure an Atronach four times, use another soul trap, sacrifice a goat to a dragon atop Mt. Anthor? Level Conjuration once.

Basically, in nearly every playthrough I've done that had me using conjuration, it took ages to level said skill.
I agree with you on Conjuration, however, there are a few tricks in that school. Use raise dead constantly! especially early game. I realize that the bound sword doesn't really work for a pure mage, but it does level up conjuration quickly. I also find that just casting soul trap on everything as you go (including dead bodies) will level you up as well in conjuration. Still - it's the raise undead spells that really up the conjuration - just be sure to destroy your conjurations as soon as they're finished standing up, otherwise you have to wait for them to go to ash first and, by that time you could have raised 1/2 a dozen other ones. I can usually get my conjuration up to about 50 by level 10, easy.

BTW - it's a Child on Mount Anthor, not a goat. I know the spell says "Kid", but that's what was really meant. :)
 

Twiffle

Well-Known Member
Some great ideas guys,
Love the staff idea, I like staffs a lot and it just never occurred to me, have to fit them in as and when I come across them.

I have started it now though and only level 6 so plenty of time,
Conjuration, illusion, alteration, back up with some resto and a little sneak and maybe a little enchanting, but not until about level 30 ish

I haven't made my mind up about stone blessing yet, so haven't bothered as yet.
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
a pure mage without destruction or any combat skills to play on either master or expert, is it possible to do?

Absolutely! It takes a little bit of doing-- and restraint, but the bottom line is still the same. (Honestly, playing on Master or Expert would be quite drastically easier as well...)

So your ideas and input would be so appreciated.

As mentioned above: Staves are incredibly useful/vital/mandatory... But, you already knew that. Use a staff instead of the spell, Destruction stays the same. Excellent way to stay pure and be less than defenseless.

Alteration and Restoration should be diligently indulged upon. Running away, healing, taking advantage of flesh spells-- and PARALYZE! All of these will help incredibly in turning the aggro on whomever you run with, or to your conjurations. Which brings up Conjuration...

There have already been some good tips on Conjuration, but one I haven't seen to date is: That you can turn around and cast on your follower three times before they will attack. Of course, they'll have to like you first (or else they leave your service instantly); but, regardless, it's a wonderful way to level it "on the fly"... ...Just make sure you wait some seconds before restarting the process. Casting it a fourth time will make them hostile, leave your service, and make it inconvenient to win their trust again.

I haven't made my mind up about stone blessing yet, so haven't bothered as yet.

The Atronach is great for leveling Alteration and Conjuration as well. Conjuring a Familiar will 50% of the time (though, not actually 50% of the time) be absorbed back into your magicka pool. Cast some Familiars, absorb some mana, cast a flesh spell; to infinite...
...and if you're looking to grind your socks off, do this near an enemy that cannot reach you, and you'll be set for life.

The last bit I can add to Illusion is... Well, nothing... Unless, as already said, you keep up on perks and buying the next tier spells when available. Illusion loses its effectiveness very fast if not kept up-to-date. That said, it is great for crowd control when you have sufficient school reductions, mana pool, and meet the level requirement. It is a very fun school, but I would never use it as a primary school of magic.
 

Bonespike

New Member
Love, love, love Conjuration. Favorite summoned "friends" include: Seeker, Dremora Lord, Mistman, Wrathman, and Flame Atronach. Seekers absorb health, magicka and stamina from their target, and don't really cost a lot of magicka. Highly recommend you get the tome from the Apocrypha and play with it a little. He will support your pure Mage well.
 

Nocte Aeterna

Sir Not-Appearing-in-This-Film
Mages are fun as hell to play once you master a certain playstyle.

I agree that Conjuration is one of the best support skills for any mage, although another great field to utilize is Alteration. Flesh spells are your friend, and Paralysis is incredibly fun to use.

Staves are often overlooked as well. But yeah, I would say that the core skills of any good mage sans Destruction are Alteration, Illusion, Restoration, Conjuration, and Alchemy. Enchanting is optional if you want to enchant robes for free.

I like the idea of an indirect-damaging build!
 

Twiffle

Well-Known Member
Well what a lot of informative and useful information.

So, just an update to this build of mine, went with high elf (Frecsa) using just illusion, conjuration and alteration as main atributes and great fun was had, however illusion with conjuration just seemed so powerful so I decided to change tack as I missed getting stuck in a little.

So, currently she's level 42, with conjuration at 87, alteration 76, enchanting maxed and destruction 58, my illusion I made legendary and used the points in a bit of smithing, destruction , as she's a glass cannon, health is only 120, but haven't gone for zero manna cost, decided to go for regeneration and fortyfy magick instead front he challenge.

Now stated the main quest but nothing else yet was just experimenting for a while.
 

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