Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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J

Jeremius

Guest
One thing I can say about the armies: I think the Stormcloak armor makes more sense than the Imperial one. Skirt looks emasculating.
 

LegateFasendil

Imperial Legate
Well there is and isn't anything logical about this. It's war. It's hell.

Now, I've heard it from somewhere before that only High Elves belong on the high ground, so you are Thalmor, because, in essence, you are taking the high ground by not choosing a side. Only the Thalmor can do that. Everyone else, has to choose. And so, it is time to choose.

So, please, choose. Otherwise, you're in the boat with the Thalmor whose primary interest is for the war to drag on until they're ready to make their move. By not choosing, you're in essence doing the same thing.


Well, come on. If Texas decided to declare war against the U.S. because some law was passed that restricted some Texas specific religion, would you cheer for the side that is noble (Texas) (Stormcloaks), or the side that would win (U.S.) (Empire)? It's a cruel choice. Either be a good man or be a winning man, in this case.


You know, I have considered that before.

I think the answer for me is to let them fight their own battles. Have enough to deal with on this end, taking care of my state.

The problem you'll find though, is wars seldom have bounds, even if you're on the other side of the world.

Any war with Texas would surely spread and then... sooner or later you still have to make a choice. I dunno though... staying neutral sounds real good on paper but when the shooting starts, I'd rather have already gotten so momentum with either faction.
 

LegateFasendil

Imperial Legate
One thing I can say about the armies: I think the Stormcloak armor makes more sense than the Imperial one. Skirt looks emasculating.


It's not really a skirt. Looks like one, but it's designed for maximum mobility.

Stormcloaks don't care about that because they're not wearing Heavy Armor.

Then again, I'd rather wear a metal skirt and live as opposed to wearing what essentially amounts to a cloth and leather garment, which would result in me getting cut in half. ;)
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
One thing I can say about the armies: I think the Stormcloak armor makes more sense than the Imperial one. Skirt looks emasculating.


It's not really a skirt. Looks like one, but it's designed for maximum mobility.

Stormcloaks don't care about that because they're not wearing Heavy Armor.

Then again, I'd rather wear a metal skirt and live as opposed to wearing what essentially amounts to a cloth and leather garment, which would result in me getting cut in half. ;)

And I would rather wear pants on my heavy armor characters, than what clearly looks like a skirt that is not protecting against the climate of the province that is not suited for that look.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Well, come on. If Texas decided to declare war against the U.S. because some law was passed that restricted some Texas specific religion, would you cheer for the side that is noble (Texas) (Stormcloaks), or the side that would win (U.S.) (Empire)? It's a cruel choice. Either be a good man or be a winning man, in this case.

What about if you were invaded, countless dead. Over half or even up to two thirds of your Military dead or too injured to serve. Towns and cities destroyed, thousands of civilians fleeing, men, women and children being slaughtered all over. These invaders still holding parts of your lands, after you had thrown everything you could muster at them. (Cyrodiil still had a secondary Aldmeri force and perhaps several cities still under occupation after Red Ring)

The Stormcloaks aren't noble, sure the cause sounds good. "Freeom of religion!" just with the small print down the bottom of isolation, slavery and at times segregation of races. Empire isn't noble either.

For a plopsty questline, it offers you some complex moral choices.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
And I would rather wear pants on my heavy armor characters, than what clearly looks like a skirt that is not protecting against the climate of the province that is not suited for that look.

It is suited for many climates, the cloth material you wear would change. You think the Romans never fought in the snow? It isn't like you're freezing cold, you're marching with gear. That creates it's own heat from your body. While at camp you have fires to keep warm when you're not moving about.

In the Military when you say "I'm cold" they don't hand you a blanky or extra warm clothing. They say "Well we have the perfect solution! Drop down and do fifty push ups." Why? Because moving and exercise makes you warmer.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
And I would rather wear pants on my heavy armor characters, than what clearly looks like a skirt that is not protecting against the climate of the province that is not suited for that look.

It is suited for many climates, the cloth material you wear would change. You think the Romans never fought in the snow? It isn't like you're freezing cold, you're marching with gear. That creates it's own heat from your body. While at camp you have fires to keep warm when you're not moving about.

In the Military when you say "I'm cold" they don't hand you a blanky or extra warm clothing. They say "Well we have the perfect solution! Drop down and do fifty push ups." Why? Because moving and exercise makes you warmer.

It is not just the climate, however. IT is also impractical in combat situations. At least add of metal pants, sleeves and elbow guards.

Just personal preference, but I find the imperial armor as it is, to be girly, and would rather not heavy armor characters (of all races and both genders) not looking intimidating.
 
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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
It is not just the climate, however. IT is also impractical in combat situations. At least add of metal pants, sleeves and elbow guards.

Just personal preference, but I find the imperial armor as it is, to be girly, and would rather not heavy armor characters (of all races and both genders) not looking intimidating.

No, it is practical, allowing large degree of leg movement, which is very important in melee combat. What would be impractical is metal pants, sleeves and elbow guards. That would greatly restrict your movement in combat, thus requiring thicker armor to take more blows. How long before you tire out in this metal can? While the enemy simply dances around you, until you have nothing left, then easy slice off the head. Heavy plate armor like you're thinking would be better suited for shock troops, than your normal soldiers.

Stick to your personal preference of thinking anything "skirt" like, is "girly". Arguing climate and combat doesn't work when the Romans managed just fine wearing their "girly" skirts that can't apparently handle snow or combat.
 
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Mudeye

New Member
Ulfric's too much of a racist, so I join the Imperials. That's probably based on having played Oblivion though, where races aren't discriminated against like they are in Skyrim. That's not to say the Imperials are exactly perfect. They've got plenty of faults too.

I usually start of following the Stormcloak out of Helgen though, and fight the Captain that arbitrarily sent me to the block.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
It is not just the climate, however. IT is also impractical in combat situations. At least add of metal pants, sleeves and elbow guards.

Just personal preference, but I find the imperial armor as it is, to be girly, and would rather not heavy armor characters (of all races and both genders) not looking intimidating.

No, it is practical, allowing large degree of leg movement, which is very important in melee combat. What would be impractical is metal pants, sleeves and elbow guards. That would greatly restrict your movement in combat, thus requiring thicker armor to take more blows. How long before you tire out in this metal can? While the enemy simply dances around you, until you have nothing left, then easy slice off the head. Heavy plate armor like you're thinking would be better suited for shock troops, than your normal soldiers.

Stick to your personal preference of thinking anything "skirt" like, is "girly". Arguing climate and combat doesn't work when the Romans managed just fine wearing their "girly" skirts that can't apparently handle snow or combat.

Here is the thing:
  • Light armor is meant for mobility. Light armor is light for a reason. The reason most people wore light armors is they had no choice, and in this game, allows for more freedom of movement.
  • Heavy armor is meant to be protective. Imperial armor makes no sense in this category because of that. if you choose to wear imperial heavy armor because of mobility, why not wear armor meant for that in the first place.
My issue with the Imperial heavy armor is that it is heavy armor, yet behaves more like light armor (mobile, not as protective), yet has the weight/stamina issue of heavy.
 
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LegateFasendil

Imperial Legate
And I would rather wear pants on my heavy armor characters, than what clearly looks like a skirt that is not protecting against the climate of the province that is not suited for that look.

It is suited for many climates, the cloth material you wear would change. You think the Romans never fought in the snow? It isn't like you're freezing cold, you're marching with gear. That creates it's own heat from your body. While at camp you have fires to keep warm when you're not moving about.

In the Military when you say "I'm cold" they don't hand you a blanky or extra warm clothing. They say "Well we have the perfect solution! Drop down and do fifty push ups." Why? Because moving and exercise makes you warmer.

It is not just the climate, however. IT is also impractical in combat situations. At least add of metal pants, sleeves and elbow guards.

Just personal preference, but I find the imperial armor as it is, to be girly, and would rather not heavy armor characters (of all races and both genders) not looking intimidating.


Has absolutely nothing to do with the climate. No reason why the Imperials can't wear pants.

Look at Oblivion. The Legions there had Greaves and boots which covered from Torso to feet.

Skyrim's Legion is based on the Roman flavor that the design team chose. Also, Skyrim left out the Greaves armor space.

It's just a game. If you look closer at actual history, the Romans actually wore fur quite a bit. Over time, the Roman uniform incorporated more and more metal pieces. Better Weapons too.

Your arguments in essence, is against Heavy Armor, has little to do with the Legion. Skyrim Legion armor, too me, isn't really heavy armor anyways. Yeah I know what it says but to me it looks like a heavier form of medium armor, nothing more.
 
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LegateFasendil

Imperial Legate
It is not just the climate, however. IT is also impractical in combat situations. At least add of metal pants, sleeves and elbow guards.

Just personal preference, but I find the imperial armor as it is, to be girly, and would rather not heavy armor characters (of all races and both genders) not looking intimidating.

No, it is practical, allowing large degree of leg movement, which is very important in melee combat. What would be impractical is metal pants, sleeves and elbow guards. That would greatly restrict your movement in combat, thus requiring thicker armor to take more blows. How long before you tire out in this metal can? While the enemy simply dances around you, until you have nothing left, then easy slice off the head. Heavy plate armor like you're thinking would be better suited for shock troops, than your normal soldiers.

Stick to your personal preference of thinking anything "skirt" like, is "girly". Arguing climate and combat doesn't work when the Romans managed just fine wearing their "girly" skirts that can't apparently handle snow or combat.

Here is the thing:
  • Light armor is meant for mobility. Light armor is light for a reason. The reason most people wore light armors is they had no choice, and in this game, allows for more freedom of movement.
  • Heavy armor is meant to be protective. Imperial armor makes no sense in this category because of that. if you choose to wear imperial heavy armor because of mobility, why not wear armor meant for that in the first place.
My issue with the Imperial heavy armor is that it is heavy armor, yet behaves more like light armor (mobile, not as protective), yet has the weight/stamina issue of heavy.


Not impractical at all - The "skirt" was a type of armor to protect the upper legs, made of leather with metal plates on it, which also allowed rapid movement. It was another piece of armor.
 
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LegateFasendil

Imperial Legate
It is not just the climate, however. IT is also impractical in combat situations. At least add of metal pants, sleeves and elbow guards.

Just personal preference, but I find the imperial armor as it is, to be girly, and would rather not heavy armor characters (of all races and both genders) not looking intimidating.

No, it is practical, allowing large degree of leg movement, which is very important in melee combat. What would be impractical is metal pants, sleeves and elbow guards. That would greatly restrict your movement in combat, thus requiring thicker armor to take more blows. How long before you tire out in this metal can? While the enemy simply dances around you, until you have nothing left, then easy slice off the head. Heavy plate armor like you're thinking would be better suited for shock troops, than your normal soldiers.

Stick to your personal preference of thinking anything "skirt" like, is "girly". Arguing climate and combat doesn't work when the Romans managed just fine wearing their "girly" skirts that can't apparently handle snow or combat.


Exactly. The Legion has to stay in formation, yet be highly mobile at same time. And, Legion fighting would eventually move into close quarters, so the 'skirt' was an extra layer of armor. An extension of the 'armor' to protect the legs.

Also, I just looked up the Imperial Char for ESO and the race bonuses are actually very good. So is the Armor / Weapon set. If you're into ESO, def something worth getting. ;)
 
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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Here is the thing:
  • Light armor is meant for mobility. Light armor is light for a reason. The reason most people wore light armors is they had no choice, and in this game, allows for more freedom of movement.
  • Heavy armor is meant to be protective. Imperial armor makes no sense in this category because of that. if you choose to wear imperial heavy armor because of mobility, why not wear armor meant for that in the first place.
My issue with the Imperial heavy armor is that it is heavy armor, yet behaves more like light armor (mobile, not as protective), yet has the weight/stamina issue of heavy.

As the blacksmith in Solitude says "Light armor for scouting detail". Light armor is suited for skirmishes, being able to cover more ground due to less weight. It allows more freedom of movement because it also has the skirt.

Imperial heavy armor is protective. Besides the plate, you have leather and chainmail present also. It is well designed for protection, the skirt offers protection to your legs without sacrificing your leg mobility in combat. Your logic here is flawed "Well they should just wear light armor!"

Heavy armor that gives you a good amount of mobility for your legs, allowing you to walk more freely isn't a bad thing. It is designed for heavy combat, where you're being hit with swords, axes, hammers and arrows.

Your issue with Imperial heavy armor is you think it is "girly" as stated before.

Imperial armor is indeed protective. It does the job, giving you ample protection and added freedom of movement. Added with a shield as meant to, it is highly protective. Throw in 3000 other Legionaries in formation... The enemy is greeted by a wall of shields, short swords flickering out of the gaps, arrows raining down and spears being thrown.

268x268.resizedimage
 
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J

Jeremius

Guest
Here is the thing:
  • Light armor is meant for mobility. Light armor is light for a reason. The reason most people wore light armors is they had no choice, and in this game, allows for more freedom of movement.
  • Heavy armor is meant to be protective. Imperial armor makes no sense in this category because of that. if you choose to wear imperial heavy armor because of mobility, why not wear armor meant for that in the first place.
My issue with the Imperial heavy armor is that it is heavy armor, yet behaves more like light armor (mobile, not as protective), yet has the weight/stamina issue of heavy.

As the blacksmith in Solitude says "Light armor for scouting detail". Light armor is suited for skirmishes, being able to cover more ground due to less weight. It allows more freedom of movement because it also has the skirt.

Imperial heavy armor is protective. Besides the plate, you have leather and chainmail present also. It is well designed for protection, the skirt offers protection to your legs without sacrificing your leg mobility in combat. Your logic here is flawed "Well they should just wear light armor!"

Heavy armor that gives you a good amount of mobility for your legs, allowing you to walk more freely isn't a bad thing. It is designed for heavy combat, where you're being hit with swords, axes, hammers and arrows.

Your issue with Imperial heavy armor is you think it is "girly" as stated before.

Imperial armor is indeed protective. It does the job, giving you ample protection and added freedom of movement. Added with a shield as meant to, it is highly protective. Throw in 3000 other Legionaries in formation... The enemy is greeted by a wall of shields, short swords flickering out of the gaps, arrows raining down and spears being thrown.

268x268.resizedimage

If I wanted heavy armor, I am looking for an armor that protects me from blows when I am hit, as I would not be wanting to be mobile. If I wanted mobility, imperial heavy armor is not the armor I want. It is a weird hybrid of the two that does not really mash the two perfectly. It is made out of steel, but it is only as protective as the player can move.

Oblivion Imperial armor:

http://hudsonesc.org/wp-content/uploads/imperial-legion-armor-oblivion-640.png

That looks like something I would wear if forced to wear plate (as in I am a heavy armored fighter).

Skyrim imperial armor:


http://hudsonesc.org/wp-content/uploads/imperial-legion-armor-skyrim-643.jpg

Are you trying to make me laugh? Because that is the only way you will be able to kill me if I am just as good a fighter as you.
 
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J

Jeremius

Guest
Overall for the imperial heavy armor, I find that it may be practical in optimum situations, rarely would you run into a situation where the enemy is an idiot charging in by himself/herself. If you dodge the wrong way, the enemy may have a buddy to take advantage, and that imperial heavy gear would not be able to save your swordarm if they know what they are doing.

For me, Imperial heavy armor is not heavy armor, because heavy armor is designed with protection in mind more than mobility.

but my opinion, nothing more.
 
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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
If I wanted heavy armor, I am looking for an armor that protects me from blows when I am hit, as I would not be wanting to be mobile. If I wanted mobility, imperial heavy armor is not the armor I want. It is a weird hybrid of the two that does not really mash the two perfectly. It is made out of steel, but it is only as protective as the player can move.

Imperial armor does protect you. It isn't simply the armor, but skill and training that also comes into play. If you have easier foot work, being able to maintain balance which is very important in sword fighting, you will win against someone in thick plate armor with limited mobility.

The armor you're thinking, is better suited for horse back. You can't march long distances in it, the added weight would tire you out before you even came into contact with the enemy. You're sweating and being cooked in this tin can.

Good luck getting up if you're knocked down in this full metal suit.

It isn't simply about mobility, you need the extra freedom in melee combat. It isn't a weird hybrid, it is made out of steel and leather. IYou're protected, but you're also able to actually reach the enemy on foot without falling down cause you're tired half way.

I don't know why you keep trying to come up with an argument about how it can't handle climate, it is poor for combat or it is just weird. If you stuck with your "I think it is girly" there wouldn't be this silly debate.


Are you trying to make me laugh? Because that is the only way you will be able to kill me if I am just as good a fighter as you.

Are you trying to make everyone else laugh? Oblivion armor isn't practical for foot soldiers, that game was very medieval/knightly. The only reason they can run around in it is because it is a game. Otherwise you would need a horse to get you around, cause you aren't running far.

Imperial armor is fine, nothing wrong with it. For the purpose of this armor, it does exactly what is required. Provides protection and you're able to do long marches in it.
 
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J

Jeremius

Guest
I am thinking of making a character based loosely off of the new LOTRO Beorning class/race (it is both). I wonder what faction they would "favor" out of the two.
 

LegateFasendil

Imperial Legate
I am thinking of making a character based loosely off of the new LOTRO Beorning class/race (it is both). I wonder what faction they would "favor" out of the two.


I've read about them. Honestly, I really doubt they would side with anyone except themselves. If push came to shove, I can see them not siding with the Empire because of their issues with Orcs.

They would not fit in well with the Empire because the Empire tolerates and supports Orc tribes. Empire has even allotted the Orcs land. However, I don't think they'd follow the Stormcloaks in their petty political power struggle because they're basically pacifists w/ a mean right hook. ;) Although, within the Empire itself you have races who have hated each other for years, so I think there is a grey area where the Beorning could fight for the Empire because the Empire is not the aggressor. It would depend on who is the greater threat to their land and livelihood.

Chances are they would tell both sides to goto hell and tell everyone to stay off their land. I can see them however, getting along well with Nords in general... as long as they don't push them around, which in case the Nords ever did decide display sufficient aggression, you'd basically be left with another Forsworn uprising on your hands.

So ironically enough... I can see the Stormcloaks trying to take advantage of them, you'd have a situation similar to either Whiterun or the Reach and them rising up to fight back, being branded as monsters, much like the Forsworn. And the Empire would either ignore them or seek out their assistance. It's still a buyers market though because how could Beorning serve in a Legion with Orcs?
 
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Sora Prince

Little Brother
imperials basically dont care who is in skyrim. stormcloaks only want nords( basically considered communist) i choose imperials (even though i assume they are taxing and taking control in a bad way. not that those are my views, just thinking thats the plot)
 

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