Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

  • Welcome to Skyrim Forums! Register now to participate using the 'Sign Up' button on the right. You may now register with your Facebook or Steam account!

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Mages in Thedas generally dicks :p? They need blood phials to keep a track of every single one of em' to make sure they don't cause trouble lol. And after a certain quest in DA:2, you can choose to help the mages yet
They end up doing the wrong thing anyways and you need to help the Templars
.

The ones who truly deserve to be called dicks are the Chantry and the Templar's.

segregating mages by tossing them in some prison tower for the rest of their lives is wrong.
 

Ondolemar

Member
The Thalmor do just hate anyone, if you're not one of them, you're nothing to them. Raijin, a single Thalmor embassy and a prison isn't an invasion. They don't have large numbers in Skyrim.

It's the first step in invading :) Guess who's protecting the Thalmor from getting attacked by the Stormcloaks? ;)


Thalmor don't hate everyone. That's opp of the truth actually. We've all already agreed the Thalmor are good with politics right? So, how do you expect to get ahead by hating the world?

Thalmor also ~ eat their own sometimes. For example, Elenwen replaced the former ambassador to Skyrim. There was another Justiciar who was told to either find some proof or get lost, he died carrying out his mission alone at Lake Ilinalta.

Thalmor have connections everywhere, which means they have friends everywhere. Thalmor also have some enemies and long standing rivals they're dealing with too. But that does not mean they hate everyone.

The Nords committed genocide / slavery / theft etc... to the Snowelves, those Alysseian knuckleheads did the same thing(s) to the Ayleids. So the Dominion comes along after being conquered for a long time and then starts purging itself of the bad influences *from* the Empire / States that caused their collapse. And everyone loses their minds over it.

Blades Terrorists had no business being in the Dominion. The Empire's little proxy war was *mostly* stopped before it could start. Night of Green fire, those weren't innocent little refugees. They were obviously very heavily armed and for all we know the Thalmor just wanted to talk to them. Kinda like how the FBI does the same thing. They saw the Thalmor, obviously hated the new Gov very much so and pl*ps got real. The US, UK, UN, U & I would all respond in same manner if it was terrorists threatening our nation. I'm sure there's a process for Dominion citizens to discuss change, but that would require one to respect the Thalmor in the first place and the rebels didn't, so what other choice did the Dominion have?

Anytime you have change, there will be those who won't accept it. Or as the old saying goes, "Oh well you won't let me kill you a little bit..." ~ "Therefore, you're not being reasonable."
 
Last edited:

Ondolemar

Member
The Thalmor don't get angry, they knew the Empire wouldn't enforce the ban from the get go. They don't care about that, they wanted to plant the seeds for Ulfric's uprising. The Thalmor care about taking over Tamriel, weakening Skyrim and the Empire is the best solution.

Skyrim and the Empire represent the only organized threat against them.

Chances are they've already won.



What planted the seed for Ulfric's uprising was the birth of the White-Gold Concordat. Say thank you to your precious Empire for that.


Thousands of people *DIED* just so the WGC could be signed in the first place.

The Emperor was forced to allow the Thalmor to openly administer the ban on Talos because of the rebellion. Thalmor will even tell you this is so. The only sane conclusion for this is because the Empire wasn't maintaining an effective ban on Talos worship. If there had been no rebellion, while there would have been a few Thalmor around, there wouldn't have been Justiciars operating openly in Skyrim. It was part of their plan.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
The Nords committed genocide / slavery / theft etc... to the Snowelves, those Alysseian knuckleheads did the same thing(s) to the Ayleids. So the Dominion comes along after being conquered for a long time and then starts purging itself of the bad influences *from* the Empire / States that caused their collapse. And everyone loses their minds over it.

You're wrong. The Nords had not committed genocidal acts against the snow elves. They did not force slavery nor committed theft.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Night_of_Tears

When the elves attempted to drive the Nords out of Skyrim, to succeed only in incurring their wrath in the form of Ysgramor and his fabled Five Hundred Companions, who swept the elves from Skyrim and firmly established it as the home of the Nords.

The Nords found something when they built their city, buried deep in the ground. They attempted to keep it buried, but the elves learned of it and coveted it for themselves. Thus they assaulted Saarthal, their goal not to drive the Nords out but to secure this power for themselves. I believe Ysgramor knew something of what the elves would find under Saarthal, and rallied together his people to keep the elves from gaining it. When Nords once again controlled Skyrim, this power was buried deep below the earth and sealed away.

The Eye of Magnus (The artifact that the snow elves were wanting to coveted for themselves) is an extremely powerful magical artifact that very well destroy the world if it gets into the wrong set of hands. If it gets corrupted to the point where it becomes unstable can cause severe long-term effects down the road. Few of the members from The Psijic Order had to intervene when one of your power lust Thalmor members went in to a psychotic power frenzy almost risking everyone life to gain ultimate power. Ancano action further proves that what the ancient Nords did, to protect this artifact was justified.

Point the genocidal blame against the snow elves to the Dwemer.

Blades Terrorists had no business being in the Dominion. The Empire's little proxy war was *mostly* stopped before it could start. Night of Green fire, those weren't innocent little refugees. They were obviously very heavily armed and for all we know the Thalmor just wanted to talk to them. Kinda like how the FBI does the same thing. They saw the Thalmor, obviously hated the new Gov very much so and pl*ps got real. The US, UK, UN, U & I would respond the same way if it was terrorists threatening our nation.

Anytime you have change, there will be those who won't accept it. Or as the old saying goes, "Oh well you won't let me kill you a little bit..." ~ "Therefore, you're not being reasonable."

Ah! Night of green fire, eh?

"Back in 42 I was stationed in Hammerfell, on leave in Sentinel, trying to track down some refugee relatives who had fled persecution in Alinor. Suddenly an explosion of magic in the refugee quarter. Thalmor mages were attacking the Altmer dissidents who were resisting with magic of their own. I ran to the scene with other Legionaries who where stationed there, but the entire quarter was a smoking ruin by the time we arrived. Everyone was dead. Wholesale slaughter. The Dominion, not content with killing dissidents at home, came to Hammerfell to finish the job. We're supposedly at peace now. But I put in to be stationed here to keep an eye on the Thalmor. I've a feeling they're behind this unrest in Skyrim." - Legate Fasendil
 

Ondolemar

Member
The Nords committed genocide / slavery / theft etc... to the Snowelves, those Alysseian knuckleheads did the same thing(s) to the Ayleids. So the Dominion comes along after being conquered for a long time and then starts purging itself of the bad influences *from* the Empire / States that caused their collapse. And everyone loses their minds over it.

You're wrong. The Nords had not committed genocidal acts against the snow elves. They did not force slavery nor committed theft.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Night_of_Tears

When the elves attempted to drive the Nords out of Skyrim, to succeed only in incurring their wrath in the form of Ysgramor and his fabled Five Hundred Companions, who swept the elves from Skyrim and firmly established it as the home of the Nords.

The Nords found something when they built their city, buried deep in the ground. They attempted to keep it buried, but the elves learned of it and coveted it for themselves. Thus they assaulted Saarthal, their goal not to drive the Nords out but to secure this power for themselves. I believe Ysgramor knew something of what the elves would find under Saarthal, and rallied together his people to keep the elves from gaining it. When Nords once again controlled Skyrim, this power was buried deep below the earth and sealed away.

The Eye of Magnus (The artifact that the snow elves were wanting to coveted for themselves) is an extremely powerful magical artifact that very well destroy the world if it gets into the wrong set of hands. If it gets corrupted to the point where it becomes unstable can cause severe long-term effects down the road. Few of the members from The Psijic Order had to intervene when one of your power lust Thalmor members went in to a psychotic power frenzy almost risking everyone life to gain ultimate power. Ancano action further proves that what the ancient Nords did, to protect this artifact was justified.

Point the genocidal blame against the snow elves to the Dwemer.

Blades Terrorists had no business being in the Dominion. The Empire's little proxy war was *mostly* stopped before it could start. Night of Green fire, those weren't innocent little refugees. They were obviously very heavily armed and for all we know the Thalmor just wanted to talk to them. Kinda like how the FBI does the same thing. They saw the Thalmor, obviously hated the new Gov very much so and pl*ps got real. The US, UK, UN, U & I would respond the same way if it was terrorists threatening our nation.

Anytime you have change, there will be those who won't accept it. Or as the old saying goes, "Oh well you won't let me kill you a little bit..." ~ "Therefore, you're not being reasonable."

Ah! Night of green fire, eh?

"Back in 42 I was stationed in Hammerfell, on leave in Sentinel, trying to track down some refugee relatives who had fled persecution in Alinor. Suddenly an explosion of magic in the refugee quarter. Thalmor mages were attacking the Altmer dissidents who were resisting with magic of their own. I ran to the scene with other Legionaries who where stationed there, but the entire quarter was a smoking ruin by the time we arrived. Everyone was dead. Wholesale slaughter. The Dominion, not content with killing dissidents at home, came to Hammerfell to finish the job. We're supposedly at peace now. But I put in to be stationed here to keep an eye on the Thalmor. I've a feeling they're behind this unrest in Skyrim." - Legate Fasendil


Thanks for you reply.

Windhelm was built by Elven slaves. There is also a book out there somewhere which talks about the Elves trying to surrender and being either ignored or killed anyways out of Nord pride. Above and beyond all else, the Nords never pressed for peace or relented, even when Snowelves were so badly beaten. Like running up the score or someone. Esp when it wasn't the Nords land to begin with.

Have a lot of respect for the Dwemer, however that was one thing they prob should not have done. Not like they didn't pay for it later on.

As for the Night of Green fire, yes I have heard that before.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Thanks for you reply.

Windhelm was built by Elven slaves. There is also a book out there somewhere which talks about the Elves trying to surrender and being either ignored or killed anyways out of Nord pride. Above and beyond all else, the Nords never pressed for peace or relented, even when Snowelves were so badly beaten. Like running up the score or someone. Esp when it wasn't the Nords land to begin with.

Have a lot of respect for the Dwemer, however that was one thing they prob should not have done. Not like they didn't pay for it later on.

As for the Night of Green fire, yes I have heard that before.

Nice way to contradict yourself. First you said

The Nords committed genocide / slavery / theft etc... to the Snowelves, those Alysseian knuckleheads did the same thing(s) to the Ayleids. So the Dominion comes along after being conquered for a long time and then starts purging itself of the bad influences *from* the Empire / States that caused their collapse. And everyone loses their minds over it.

then you said:

Have a lot of respect for the Dwemer

What the Dwemer did to the Snow elves was 10 worst than what the Nords did. It was the ultimate betrayal considering the fact that they came to them for help.

After their defeat by the Nords, the dwarves of old agreed to protect the Falmer, but at a terrible price. For these Dwemer did not trust their snow elf guests, and forced them to consume the toxic fungi that once grew deep underground. As a result, the snow elves were rendered blind.

Soon, the majestic snow elves were rendered powerless. They became the dwarves' servants... and then their slaves. But the Dwemer's treachery was so deep, so complete, that they made the fungi an essential part of the Falmer's diet. This guaranteed the weakness of not only their current Falmer thralls, but their offspring as well. The snow elves, for time eternal, would be blind.

But as is always the story with slaves and their masters, the Falmer eventually rebelled.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Falmer:_A_Study

So do you take it back? Do you still respect the Dwemer?
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
Regarding shady deals, it is unlikely he'd know about that. If you can show me other figures that Silver-Bloods spared...
Fair enough I offer you the name of the man who was also spared Braig, the man you quoted.

Helps if you look at the right page...

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Forsworn
It also helps if you actually read the page you're citing: "Although Jarl Igmund claimed that the leaders of the Uprising refused their offers of peace, according to Arrianus no such offer was ever made, as Ulfric Stormcloak not only had anyone associated with the Forsworn executed after they surrendered, but also had anyone else executed without regard to race, age or gender if they had failed to assist the Nord militia in its campaign against the Forsworn."

Many historical volumes in TES are written by "people who weren't there" yet you accept them?

I could throw up the Khajiit lore page and go on about how nothing mentions the slaughter of innocent civilians, including children during the Tiber Wars.

Unless you have someone saying "Those executions didn't happen" or another book contradicting. People not speaking about it doesn't mean pl***. We know for certain people were getting executed for being associated with the Forsworn.
Were innocent Nords executed? Do we have any volumes of people that don't have obvious Biases on the account? Biased people tend to have Biased opinions or Biased facts, they take one side of the story without really looking into it, clearly what Arianus did in the "Bear of Markarth". He Clearly took the Reachman side and stuck with it, and yet you argue for him. We know Nords wouldn't be in Markarth because the Reachmen clearly hated the Nords and would have had all of them executed or imprisoned. Yet you continue to argue otherwise.

"The Nords didn't care who was and who wasn't involved in the Forsworn Uprising." - Braig
And there you go again proving Ulfric didn't have every official associated with the Reachmen killed and once again proving that The Bear of Markarth is wrong. Need I remind you that Braig says his only crime was speaking to Madanach once but then goes on to say that his only regret is "not killing more Nords before I was locked up". So the man isn't reliable.
 

Ondolemar

Member
Thanks for you reply.

Windhelm was built by Elven slaves. There is also a book out there somewhere which talks about the Elves trying to surrender and being either ignored or killed anyways out of Nord pride. Above and beyond all else, the Nords never pressed for peace or relented, even when Snowelves were so badly beaten. Like running up the score or someone. Esp when it wasn't the Nords land to begin with.

Have a lot of respect for the Dwemer, however that was one thing they prob should not have done. Not like they didn't pay for it later on.

As for the Night of Green fire, yes I have heard that before.

Nice way to contradict yourself. First you said

The Nords committed genocide / slavery / theft etc... to the Snowelves, those Alysseian knuckleheads did the same thing(s) to the Ayleids. So the Dominion comes along after being conquered for a long time and then starts purging itself of the bad influences *from* the Empire / States that caused their collapse. And everyone loses their minds over it.

then you said:

Have a lot of respect for the Dwemer

What the Dwemer did to the Snow elves was 10 worst than what the Nords did. It was the ultimate betrayal considering the fact that they came to them for help.

After their defeat by the Nords, the dwarves of old agreed to protect the Falmer, but at a terrible price. For these Dwemer did not trust their snow elf guests, and forced them to consume the toxic fungi that once grew deep underground. As a result, the snow elves were rendered blind.

Soon, the majestic snow elves were rendered powerless. They became the dwarves' servants... and then their slaves. But the Dwemer's treachery was so deep, so complete, that they made the fungi an essential part of the Falmer's diet. This guaranteed the weakness of not only their current Falmer thralls, but their offspring as well. The snow elves, for time eternal, would be blind.

But as is always the story with slaves and their masters, the Falmer eventually rebelled.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Falmer:_A_Study

So do you take it back? Do you still respect the Dwemer?


One of the problems people frequently experience with my persona is I never apologize and I never take it back. Unless this is Civ 5, then it's perfectly alright ;)

So let's see...

I can tell you're no fan of the Dwemer. Hehehe

Like all Elven races, the Dwemer leave much to be admired. It was very sad what happened to them. The Dwemer race, same all Elven races, should not be solely judged on character. There may have even been more to whatever went wrong between the Snowelves and Dwemer, although that's hardly the case.

I admire some aspects of the Dwemer and shake my head in bewilderment and some of their hobbies.
 

TheQahnaarin

Son of Skyrim
Ok first I'll admit it was wrong of me to say legionnaires aren't fighting for anything, that's not right. What I meant more was that the majority Stormcloaks aren't fighting for the sake of fighting and probably less so than legionnaires, as evidenced by Sophie they are parents

"Her daughter was sent to Whiterun, the skirmishes there have been violent. The whiterun [sic] legate, he needed to know the Stormcloak positions. He sent out a party to scout the area. They happened upon a large force... I'm told none of them made it back. Private Morrard... Angela's daughter was in that scouting party. She needs to be told." - Captain Aldis about a shop keepers daughter

"Both my parents were in the Legion. There was... an ambush." - Blaise (Hearthfire child)

It is on both sides.

Galmar talks about how they are regular citizens, even Gerdur says she would join if she were younger. The fact Laelette uses joining as her cover when she joins up with movarth successfully further hints that this is a pretty normal thing for normal citizens to do these days.

They're all regular citizens. Laelette's husband is a Stormcloak supporter most likely, you don't tell you're husband you're off to join the Legion to hide suspicions.

And the Mede dynasty is not all that different. Same elder council, and name one positive change that happened from the Medes replacing the Septims. Not sure why you dislike Tiber, try to do what he did without any controversies. Would you rather there'd never have been an empire? And slavers, well the precious dunmer you've been defending so much were much more involved in slavery. Sure, not anymore but by the days of Uriel neither were the Septims.

Elder Council has been around since the First Era. I'm sure I could find some positive outcome in the novels, but for now I guess using an in game book would be the Empire was saved from a really bad person named Emperor Thules the Gibbering.

Tiber is Tiber, he did after all knock out his mistress and kill the unborn child against her will. I don't like the Dunmer, but they have valid complaints, so do the Argonians which you ignore.

And the Stormcloaks practice slavery now.

Of course Ulfric is power-hungry, everyone knows that. I support his cause way more than I do him. Tiber was power-hungry, Titus the first was power hungry, the last dragonborn is power hungry. But if the power hungry fella knows what he's doing, thing turn out.

Titus the First knew what he was doing, and he did it well.

Skyrim under Ulfric, with no real plans or strategic ability are taking their entire army to the Thalmor. The Nords alone can't face the Thalmor, so you'll need the Empire anyway to even reach them. Ulfric has been captured by the Thalmor and by the Empire, not exactly something you want by someone leading you into war.

What I meant was the elder council that accepted Titus was likely made of the same members as the one from the last few Septims, unless Thules completely cleaned house.

Can you say with a straight face that you'd rather live in the times of the Medes over the Septims?

Stormcloaks don't practice slavery. It might seem like its heading in that direction, but come on. The last time nords used slavery was on snow elves, and they kinda deserved it. Stormcloak don't come off as the warm and cuddly sort but they still have ethics.

Tiber and Barenziah aren't really relevant here.

Ulfrics no idiot, they aren't hopping on the first ship to Summerset after Tullius is dead. What he said was a spur of the moment kind of thing. He'll evaluate the army and they may not go for a long time. I know what you say about the thalmor's strength being espionage, but you can't assassinate the whole Nord populace. Assassinations would just ignite the nords, and after all the espionage eventually the elves will have to invade.

Also the thalmor's goal is to rule tamriel no? Including hammerfell? So why can't the nords and redguards join forces. The war they fought was centuries ago, and bosmer fought the Altmer and khajiit at almost the exact same time and they're all good now. Redguards know the thalmor aren't done, and skyrim is by far the most logical partner.
 
Last edited:

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
I was referring to the class, but the Nords have a long history of barbarism.
Right, I figured. But are the Nords still Barbarians? Or is that some sort of Racial Slur the Imperials are using on us nowadays? Please let me know brother.

No Idea what book you are referring to. You are completely failing to understand the point. Jews were hunted down as a RACE, not a religion. Hitler didn't kill anyone, he persuaded the German people that the Jews were interfering in their plans for world domination and that they were responsible for the loss in WW1. You are saying that they were hunted down for their religion, but I have yet to see any compelling evidence that doesn't say otherwise.
Biography on Adolf Hitler and his hatred for the Jews. I realize they were hunted for their Race but you do realize they weren't allowed to worship god in the Jewish way right? Judaism was also completely outlawed because obviously if you were a part of the Jewish religion you were Jewish. They also had to hide their religion as well as their racial identity as Jewish people.

"All "realms" that souls return to upon death are really the same place. It is only the perception of that place that is different. This is very different from Oblivion which has each realm defined by definite boundaries, while Aetherius seems to have none--it is all the same place. This follows with the concept that the Aedra do not comprehend boundaries, while the Daedra are composed of boundaries.

Aetherius is also the realm of the remaining Aedra. All the Aedra exist in the same space, while the Daedra all have different spaces."
Sovngarde is a realm of Aetherius. And it is possible to travel from Aetherius to Oblivion and back. For it is assumed that a soul cannot escape Aetherius without using the Dreamsleeve, but it can travel between Oblivion and Aetherius if enough strength is used. Whether or not this requires the aid of an Aedra is beyond me. (This is if we take Kodlak's spirit's last words into account where he claims he will gather the Companions in Sovngarde to rescue his fallen friends in Hircine's realm.)

Putting it simply, a soul will go where it is believed and destined to go. If I died of old age rather than in a fight and believe I was brave enough to go to Sovngarde, then that is where I will go.
Okay, do you understand what I meant? I didn't come here to debate Religious and Racial Afterlives with you, I'm saying that the Nords who refuse to hide their religion obviously want to go to Sovngarde as well as The Nords who are fine with hiding it. For most Nords Sovngarde is the Ideal afterlife, because it Provides Nords with all they could ever want: Mead, Kinship, Endless fighting with no pain, and the undying Stories that ring on within.

We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos.-Alvor

Most likely figurative.

Drunkenmage stated that normal blessings are not a common circumstance. I don't have any proof of or against that, so i'm going to take his word for it.
Of course you are.

Indeed, so I guess it's better to not have more of this than there already is then right?
I'd prefer to have nobody persecuting me, but to each their own I guess.
What are you talking about? What people? You are making 0 sense again. Please explain.
Are you saying you don't know about all of the people that were kidnapped for worshiping Talos? secretly by the way. Pretty much one of the main reasons the Stormcloaks are fighting?
You said "I guess they asked for the permission of the Jarl to kidnap all of those people, right?" When we were/are still on the subject of Markarth and the facts on Ondolemar's mission. Saying something like that makes it very confusing.[/quote]
Well then I'm sorry, but please answer the question: Do you still think the Thalmor really need the Jarl's permission to do this?
From what I gathered, yes they do. HOWEVER if they find compelling evidence that is irrefutable, than they have all of the authority they need. How they obtain the information though is completely up to them.[/quote]
Do you just ignore all the people taken illegally in the middle of the night or what?

Please verify as I have no idea which one.
hold on a tink: "You prove my point right there, instead of reporting the corrupt officers and or killing the Thalmor themselves, you kill innocent soldiers?"-Genral Charles Xander pg. 892

Not really. A bare chest is a prime target for archers and assassins.
You must be great fun at parties
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
I think it was meant to be a more practical opinion on the traditional barbarian dress, of which Stormcloak soldiers are not. The Stormcloaks have armor on their chests.
I was joking of course


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
One of the problems people frequently experience with my persona is I never apologize and I never take it back. Unless this is Civ 5, then it's perfectly alright ;)

So let's see...

I can tell you're no fan of the Dwemer. Hehehe

Like all Elven races, the Dwemer leave much to be admired. It was very sad what happened to them. The Dwemer race, same all Elven races, should not be solely judged on character. There may have even been more to whatever went wrong between the Snowelves and Dwemer, although that's hardly the case.

I admire some aspects of the Dwemer and shake my head in bewilderment and some of their hobbies.

Why shouldn't we judge the Dwemer race base on their character? You just did it with the Nords so why can't I do it with the Dwemer whom you have such high respects for? Theirs nothing more other than the fact that the Dwemer took an advantage of a race who came to them for help. Instead of help they turned them into slaves, and blinded them.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
I'm having like four different debates, Lol.

Yes I know the Legion is racialy diverse, but you said there isn't a legion in Skyrim it's just auxilleries, if that was the case then Bethesda would've made them all Nords.

They mostly are, they're locally recruited Militia. Even Rikke calls them Militia. Many of them speak of joining recently.

In the mean while Giants are terrorizing farmers and bullying them. Forcing farmers to give them cattle in exchange for them not to bothering them. They can be very problematic that can warrant a bounty from EACH hold, and not just the Pale.

"The cow, of course. Others do it differently, but I've found that an annual offering usually keeps the giants away from our livestock. Some think it's superstition, but I believe it works. I've yet to have a giant kill any of my livestock."

Giants have their own language and have the ability to trade with people, evident of a note (Telling people not to trade with a certain giant) and when you sold a giant someone's goat.

The painted cows is actually a reference to something written by MK. eventually we learned that if we left stuff out for the Giants, and painted this stuff brightly and with swirls (they love swirls) and stuck big signs up pointing to it all, they would simply take THAT stuff and not anything else and no fighting would be have to be done (not that what I have described was really fighting-- no one fights the Giants is the point). And that explains the Painting The Cows tradition, for as lazily-smiled as they are, so much that they seem that they wouldn't hurt a soul (ha!), the Giants eat meat and lots of it.

They get bounties if they've killed people or threaten travelers. Most times Giants are quite peaceful herding their animals. They can be reasoned with, and Mages could probably speak to them.

It's the first step in invading :) Guess who's protecting the Thalmor from getting attacked by the Stormcloaks? ;)

The Thalmor? Legion wouldn't lift a finger to save Thalmor. In fact they will attack Thalmor Execution teams.

I don't think it was a show nor thought it was an act of sarcasm. These Nobles strength is not picking up a sword and fight but rather have a unique strength and skill to make money, and to become who they are. The Thalmor are a wealthy faction. They're also very powerful indeed. Why do you think Maven is embraces them?

Maven doesn't care, they leave each other alone. Others don't like them, besides maybe Maven who has mutual respect and possible that idiot Jarl in Falkreath who likes wealthy parties.

Rest of the Jarls don't like them, Tullius hates them.

Where does it say in the data "Doesn't believe a word of it?" Please elaborate it.

Think it was with Erikur who mentions about lasting peace between the Thalmor and Empire.

"Look around the room and you'll see what we're up against. Just between you and me, a lot of what Ulfric says about the Empire is true."- General Tullius

"That's General Tullius himself. He can't stand Elenwen, but she insists that he attend these parties. Just to piss him off, no doubt." - Maven


Do you honestly expect the 2 last remaining of the blades to hide inside of the fortress for ever? They need to go out and recruit more members to join their organization to regain back their power and strength., not to mention bringing back food and other surviving tools. Unless if Delphine or Esbern has a mutual relationship with the forsworn, they also have them to deal with as they have encampments set up right outside from the fortress.

Delphine has been able to survive for thirty years, they get some recruits. But they're no longer doing things against the Thalmor, they've gone back to being Dragonguard. They just care about killing Dragons now.


The Blades are not against the Greybeards but respectfully disagree with their practice.

You kill their leader and earn the lasting hatred of the Greybeards. I would call that being against each other, they don't have good things to say about one another.

I hate the Blades with a passion, but I am obligated to agree with them regarding to the Greybeard situation considering the fact that Arngeir didn't seem to have a care in the world that people below him were being slaughtered by Alduin. In fact he was giving the Dragonborn a hard time, and keeping secrets from that can be used to stop Alduin.

The Greybeards can't stop Alduin, they don't even have the right Thu'um. They don't hand you power instantly because when you don't earn it, you abuse it. They mention it has been the downfall of past Dragonborns.

They are there to merely guide you. Though they do end up getting involved in the Civil War, and they agree that change must also come to the Greybeards. The Blades aren't changing.


I don't see you rage quitting this thread. You're as obsessive of this thread as I am. You can try, but your blood brings you back here.

Stupidity brings me back, and anytime someone quotes me. I just have to respond.


Like I said before they're in Skyrim because the Empire wasn't enforcing the ban of Talos. The Thalmor has Justiciars that's specifically for hunting down Talos worshipers.

The Justiciars are in Skyrim as part of the White-Gold Concordat, they arrived and caused the Markarth Incident. The Empire upholds the treaty, to be arrested for Talos worship you need evidence.

Their increased presence has nothing to do with the rebellion. For as long as the Empire holds their part of the bargain, and not violate the White-Gold Concordat like they did the last time the Thalmor is going to stay out of the civil war between the Stormcloaks and the Imperials.

You're taking the word of the Thalmor? Their increased presence has everything to do with the rebllion. They're stirring up trouble, doing their inquisition which sends supporters flocking towards Ulfric Stormcloak. They're indirectly aiding the Stormcloaks, from trying to keep him alive and sending supporters to him.


What planted the seed for Ulfric's uprising was the birth of the White-Gold Concordat. Say thank you to your precious Empire for that.

Well it seems Titus II is thanked for that, but he gets killed. Given the dialogue of a second war coming, it seems the White-Gold Concordat will be going bye bye.

It also helps if you actually read the page you're citing: "Although Jarl Igmund claimed that the leaders of the Uprising refused their offers of peace, according to Arrianus no such offer was ever made, as Ulfric Stormcloak not only had anyone associated with the Forsworn executed after they surrendered, but also had anyone else executed without regard to race, age or gender if they had failed to assist the Nord militia in its campaign against the Forsworn."

Which we know that people were executed for being associated with the Forsworn Uprising.

Were innocent Nords executed? Do we have any volumes of people that don't have obvious Biases on the account? Biased people tend to have Biased opinions or Biased facts, they take one side of the story without really looking into it, clearly what Arianus did in the "Bear of Markarth". He Clearly took the Reachman side and stuck with it, and yet you argue for him. We know Nords wouldn't be in Markarth because the Reachmen clearly hated the Nords and would have had all of them executed or imprisoned. Yet you continue to argue otherwise.

Do you have anything that says they weren't? Anything that contradicts what happened? Someone saying "It didn't happen!" or another book stating the Bear of Markarth is just plain lies?

No you don't, yet you continue to argue so. Notice how on UESP the Bear of Markarth is under historical in books by subject. Why? Because no matter personal feeling, there is nothing that counters what is being said. Welcome to how lore is processed and accepted.

You don't know if Nords weren't still in Markarth, that is your own little assumption. The Reachmen aren't all against Nords, the Forsworn now are. The Reachmen have always had a higher population in Markarth. Nords weren't that many, and the book states only the cruelest of landowners were killed.

And there you go again proving Ulfric didn't have every official associated with the Reachmen killed and once again proving that The Bear of Markarth is wrong. Need I remind you that Braig says his only crime was speaking to Madanach once but then goes on to say that his only regret is "not killing more Nords before I was locked up". So the man isn't reliable.

Braig's daughter was killed in his place, then he was thrown in jail. This was years later, the Nords must have been investigating it (Probably around the time Jarl Hrolfdir was killed by Forsworn).

Madanach has been in prison the longest, Braig who arrived later has been there the second longest. Notice how there is a gap, if these executions never took place Madanach wouldn't be the longest serving prisoner, he'd have some of his buddies.

What I meant was the elder council that accepted Titus was likely made of the same members as the one from the last few Septims, unless Thules completely cleaned house.

Can you say with a straight face that you'd rather live in the times of the Medes over the Septims?

Stormcloaks don't practice slavery. It might seem like its heading in that direction, but come on. The last time nords used slavery was on snow elves, and they kinda deserved it. Stormcloak don't come off as the warm and cuddly sort but they still have ethics.

Tiber and Barenziah aren't really relevant here.

Ulfrics no idiot, they aren't hopping on the first ship to Summerset after Tullius is dead. What he said was a spur of the moment kind of thing. He'll evaluate the army and they may not go for a long time. I know what you say about the thalmor's strength being espionage, but you can't assassinate the whole Nord populace. Assassinations would just ignite the nords, and after all the espionage eventually the elves will have to invade.

Also the thalmor's goal is to rule tamriel no? Including hammerfell? So why can't the nords and redguards join forces. The war they fought was centuries ago, and bosmer fought the Altmer and khajiit at almost the exact same time and they're all good now. Redguards know the thalmor aren't done, and skyrim is by far the most logical partner.

Maybe a handful of members, but the Elder Council fractured.

I would rather live under the Medes than Septims. The Septim's had far too many problems, and only a few good Emperors. The Mede Dynasty has done very well, and there wouldn't be an Empire without them.

If the Stormcloaks take the Reach, Thongvor will replace Igmund as Jarl. When Markarth is under his control, unlike Jarl Igmund, who uses caution when dealing with the Forsworn, Thongvor reveals that his intention as Jarl is to violently suppress and enslave the rebelling dissidents by sending them to Cidhna Mine as reparation for the rebellion. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thongvor_Silver-Blood

Espionage doesn't just involve assassination... The Thalmor have been known to fund bandits, the Forsworn would be their pick. Because they're like the insurgents the Thalmor funded in Cyrodiil, they would cut the heads off people they killed and take it.

Besides, if they killed Ulfric, the Nords would have a hard time picking a new High King.

Espionage is the main warfare of the Fourth Era. Stormcloaks lack any ability for that, and are easy pickings.

Same could be said for Hammerfell and the Empire settling their problems. Skyrim is weak, ravaged by Civil War and dragons. The Redguards of Hammerfell have never once sided with the Nords in anything. If they were to side together, I would be surprised.

The Thalmor's goal is questionable. They may want Tamriel, or they may want Cyrodiil and figure out how to destroy the world. The Empire is in a far better position than an isolated and alone Skyrim, the Legions are already in position. What is holding them back is bureaucratic politics, Titus II isn't doing anything.

Even Tullius knows that there are enough soldiers in Cyrodiil for him to effectively eliminate the rebellion, but the Emperor won't send him the reinforcements he's requested.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Dragon Age is awesome :) Yes :sadface: We mages get a lot of hate in the world of Thedas.

Those bastards, us Mages should band together. Might create a lore discussion thread, where us Mages can debate about the various aspects of lore in Tamriel. Giants are an interesting study, but we can touch issues such as Necromancy and if Restoration is indeed a valid school. :p

Could debate in character, possibly something like this: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Black_Arts_On_Trial

While not exactly like that, but a basic example.
 
Last edited:

TheQahnaarin

Son of Skyrim
I'm having like four different debates, Lol.

Yes I know the Legion is racialy diverse, but you said there isn't a legion in Skyrim it's just auxilleries, if that was the case then Bethesda would've made them all Nords.

They mostly are, they're locally recruited Militia. Even Rikke calls them Militia. Many of them speak of joining recently.

In the mean while Giants are terrorizing farmers and bullying them. Forcing farmers to give them cattle in exchange for them not to bothering them. They can be very problematic that can warrant a bounty from EACH hold, and not just the Pale.

"The cow, of course. Others do it differently, but I've found that an annual offering usually keeps the giants away from our livestock. Some think it's superstition, but I believe it works. I've yet to have a giant kill any of my livestock."

Giants have their own language and have the ability to trade with people, evident of a note (Telling people not to trade with a certain giant) and when you sold a giant someone's goat.

The painted cows is actually a reference to something written by MK. eventually we learned that if we left stuff out for the Giants, and painted this stuff brightly and with swirls (they love swirls) and stuck big signs up pointing to it all, they would simply take THAT stuff and not anything else and no fighting would be have to be done (not that what I have described was really fighting-- no one fights the Giants is the point). And that explains the Painting The Cows tradition, for as lazily-smiled as they are, so much that they seem that they wouldn't hurt a soul (ha!), the Giants eat meat and lots of it.

They get bounties if they've killed people or threaten travelers. Most times Giants are quite peaceful herding their animals. They can be reasoned with, and Mages could probably speak to them.

It's the first step in invading :) Guess who's protecting the Thalmor from getting attacked by the Stormcloaks? ;)

The Thalmor? Legion wouldn't lift a finger to save Thalmor. In fact they will attack Thalmor Execution teams.

I don't think it was a show nor thought it was an act of sarcasm. These Nobles strength is not picking up a sword and fight but rather have a unique strength and skill to make money, and to become who they are. The Thalmor are a wealthy faction. They're also very powerful indeed. Why do you think Maven is embraces them?

Maven doesn't care, they leave each other alone. Others don't like them, besides maybe Maven who has mutual respect and possible that idiot Jarl in Falkreath who likes wealthy parties.

Rest of the Jarls don't like them, Tullius hates them.

Where does it say in the data "Doesn't believe a word of it?" Please elaborate it.

Think it was with Erikur who mentions about lasting peace between the Thalmor and Empire.

"Look around the room and you'll see what we're up against. Just between you and me, a lot of what Ulfric says about the Empire is true."- General Tullius

"That's General Tullius himself. He can't stand Elenwen, but she insists that he attend these parties. Just to piss him off, no doubt." - Maven


Do you honestly expect the 2 last remaining of the blades to hide inside of the fortress for ever? They need to go out and recruit more members to join their organization to regain back their power and strength., not to mention bringing back food and other surviving tools. Unless if Delphine or Esbern has a mutual relationship with the forsworn, they also have them to deal with as they have encampments set up right outside from the fortress.

Delphine has been able to survive for thirty years, they get some recruits. But they're no longer doing things against the Thalmor, they've gone back to being Dragonguard. They just care about killing Dragons now.


The Blades are not against the Greybeards but respectfully disagree with their practice.

You kill their leader and earn the lasting hatred of the Greybeards. I would call that being against each other, they don't have good things to say about one another.

I hate the Blades with a passion, but I am obligated to agree with them regarding to the Greybeard situation considering the fact that Arngeir didn't seem to have a care in the world that people below him were being slaughtered by Alduin. In fact he was giving the Dragonborn a hard time, and keeping secrets from that can be used to stop Alduin.

The Greybeards can't stop Alduin, they don't even have the right Thu'um. They don't hand you power instantly because when you don't earn it, you abuse it. They mention it has been the downfall of past Dragonborns.

They are there to merely guide you. Though they do end up getting involved in the Civil War, and they agree that change must also come to the Greybeards. The Blades aren't changing.


I don't see you rage quitting this thread. You're as obsessive of this thread as I am. You can try, but your blood brings you back here.

Stupidity brings me back, and anytime someone quotes me. I just have to respond.


Like I said before they're in Skyrim because the Empire wasn't enforcing the ban of Talos. The Thalmor has Justiciars that's specifically for hunting down Talos worshipers.

The Justiciars are in Skyrim as part of the White-Gold Concordat, they arrived and caused the Markarth Incident. The Empire upholds the treaty, to be arrested for Talos worship you need evidence.

Their increased presence has nothing to do with the rebellion. For as long as the Empire holds their part of the bargain, and not violate the White-Gold Concordat like they did the last time the Thalmor is going to stay out of the civil war between the Stormcloaks and the Imperials.

You're taking the word of the Thalmor? Their increased presence has everything to do with the rebllion. They're stirring up trouble, doing their inquisition which sends supporters flocking towards Ulfric Stormcloak. They're indirectly aiding the Stormcloaks, from trying to keep him alive and sending supporters to him.


What planted the seed for Ulfric's uprising was the birth of the White-Gold Concordat. Say thank you to your precious Empire for that.

Well it seems Titus II is thanked for that, but he gets killed. Given the dialogue of a second war coming, it seems the White-Gold Concordat will be going bye bye.

It also helps if you actually read the page you're citing: "Although Jarl Igmund claimed that the leaders of the Uprising refused their offers of peace, according to Arrianus no such offer was ever made, as Ulfric Stormcloak not only had anyone associated with the Forsworn executed after they surrendered, but also had anyone else executed without regard to race, age or gender if they had failed to assist the Nord militia in its campaign against the Forsworn."

Which we know that people were executed for being associated with the Forsworn Uprising.

Were innocent Nords executed? Do we have any volumes of people that don't have obvious Biases on the account? Biased people tend to have Biased opinions or Biased facts, they take one side of the story without really looking into it, clearly what Arianus did in the "Bear of Markarth". He Clearly took the Reachman side and stuck with it, and yet you argue for him. We know Nords wouldn't be in Markarth because the Reachmen clearly hated the Nords and would have had all of them executed or imprisoned. Yet you continue to argue otherwise.

Do you have anything that says they weren't? Anything that contradicts what happened? Someone saying "It didn't happen!" or another book stating the Bear of Markarth is just plain lies?

No you don't, yet you continue to argue so. Notice how on UESP the Bear of Markarth is under historical in books by subject. Why? Because no matter personal feeling, there is nothing that counters what is being said. Welcome to how lore is processed and accepted.

You don't know if Nords weren't still in Markarth, that is your own little assumption. The Reachmen aren't all against Nords, the Forsworn now are. The Reachmen have always had a higher population in Markarth. Nords weren't that many, and the book states only the cruelest of landowners were killed.

And there you go again proving Ulfric didn't have every official associated with the Reachmen killed and once again proving that The Bear of Markarth is wrong. Need I remind you that Braig says his only crime was speaking to Madanach once but then goes on to say that his only regret is "not killing more Nords before I was locked up". So the man isn't reliable.

Braig's daughter was killed in his place, then he was thrown in jail. This was years later, the Nords must have been investigating it (Probably around the time Jarl Hrolfdir was killed by Forsworn).

Madanach has been in prison the longest, Braig who arrived later has been there the second longest. Notice how there is a gap, if these executions never took place Madanach wouldn't be the longest serving prisoner, he'd have some of his buddies.

What I meant was the elder council that accepted Titus was likely made of the same members as the one from the last few Septims, unless Thules completely cleaned house.

Can you say with a straight face that you'd rather live in the times of the Medes over the Septims?

Stormcloaks don't practice slavery. It might seem like its heading in that direction, but come on. The last time nords used slavery was on snow elves, and they kinda deserved it. Stormcloak don't come off as the warm and cuddly sort but they still have ethics.

Tiber and Barenziah aren't really relevant here.

Ulfrics no idiot, they aren't hopping on the first ship to Summerset after Tullius is dead. What he said was a spur of the moment kind of thing. He'll evaluate the army and they may not go for a long time. I know what you say about the thalmor's strength being espionage, but you can't assassinate the whole Nord populace. Assassinations would just ignite the nords, and after all the espionage eventually the elves will have to invade.

Also the thalmor's goal is to rule tamriel no? Including hammerfell? So why can't the nords and redguards join forces. The war they fought was centuries ago, and bosmer fought the Altmer and khajiit at almost the exact same time and they're all good now. Redguards know the thalmor aren't done, and skyrim is by far the most logical partner.

Maybe a handful of members, but the Elder Council fractured.

I would rather live under the Medes than Septims. The Septim's had far too many problems, and only a few good Emperors. The Mede Dynasty has done very well, and there wouldn't be an Empire without them.

If the Stormcloaks take the Reach, Thongvor will replace Igmund as Jarl. When Markarth is under his control, unlike Jarl Igmund, who uses caution when dealing with the Forsworn, Thongvor reveals that his intention as Jarl is to violently suppress and enslave the rebelling dissidents by sending them to Cidhna Mine as reparation for the rebellion. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thongvor_Silver-Blood

Espionage doesn't just involve assassination... The Thalmor have been known to fund bandits, the Forsworn would be their pick. Because they're like the insurgents the Thalmor funded in Cyrodiil, they would cut the heads off people they killed and take it.

Besides, if they killed Ulfric, the Nords would have a hard time picking a new High King.

Espionage is the main warfare of the Fourth Era. Stormcloaks lack any ability for that, and are easy pickings.

Same could be said for Hammerfell and the Empire settling their problems. Skyrim is weak, ravaged by Civil War and dragons. The Redguards of Hammerfell have never once sided with the Nords in anything. If they were to side together, I would be surprised.

The Thalmor's goal is questionable. They may want Tamriel, or they may want Cyrodiil and figure out how to destroy the world. The Empire is in a far better position than an isolated and alone Skyrim, the Legions are already in position. What is holding them back is bureaucratic politics, Titus II isn't doing anything.

Even Tullius knows that there are enough soldiers in Cyrodiil for him to effectively eliminate the rebellion, but the Emperor won't send him the reinforcements he's requested.

What kind of problems did the Septims have? Over 400 years: Potema and the Akavir invasion? Potema was pretty bad, but the Akavir invasion didn't really affect to many people. The Tharn incident could just as easily happened to a Mede. Same with the Oblivion Crisis. Numerous sources refer to the Third Era as Tamriel's golden age. Fourth era has been pretty harsh for the empire.

Sure the Medes inherited a declining Empire but they haven't been successful at all really. You can argue they would have been better than the Septims during the Third Era but that's not really what we're talking about here. They couldn't provide any relief in Morrowind, and lost a powerful ally because of it, they didn't try or couldn't reconcile the Forebears and Crowns in Hammerfell, didn't get the Legion into shape, and then they basically rolled over during the coups in Summerset, Valenwood and Elsweyr. It was following a pretty clear pattern and the Medes didn't do anything proactive about it. The Great War really shouldn't have been a surprise.

Also as for the Empire continuing the war, it seems pretty canon at this point that Titus II is dead, with no known heirs. The empire is not gonna be in good shape.

Ulfric's militia beat the Forsworn once and that time he had to take Markarth. Markarth seems really defensible and I think I can remember an Imperial saying they'd like to see the Stormcloaks try to take this canyon. This time, a fully united Skyrim with an army would be fighting them out in the open, and probably with the help of the Dragonborn. I don't think the Forsworn will continue to be much of a factor, with or without Thalmor.

How does Skyrim make less sense for Hammerfell than the Empire? Two nations with the most skilled warriors and harshest climates, both suffered from the WGC, both hate the Thalmor and are at odds with the Empire, they're a perfect match
 
Last edited:

Ivory

Let's Player
How does Skyrim make less sense for Hammerfell than the Empire? Two nations with the most skilled warriors and harshest climates, both suffered from the WGC, both hate the Thalmor and are at odds with the Empire, they're a perfect match


Redguards do not fight the undead. I doubt the Thalmor have any issue with using whatever means needed to do so, like raising the countless dead in the Necropolis City in Alik'r. The Crowns if I remember correctly prefer the old ways of the Yokudan people, this means their dead cannot be slaughtered even if they are risen. To do so is sacrilege. Even the Forebears have shown a strong dislike of such acts.

Nords do not and have not ever gotten along with the Redguards. It was the Nordic people of ancient times that tried to drive the Yokudan people from Tamriel to begin with, and they failed horribly. Redguards to not forget their past, they worship it.

The Nords are people of Conflict. They have sown destruction and death among men and elves both. That is something that thanks to the Mede Dynasty was beginning to change. It shows with half of Skyrim against the bad old days. While Tiber Septim simply used them as a Tool.


The Medes were actually beginning to make the Nords more civilized and more human than they think they are. imo.



Also, random note. Who else think that every race save for the Altmer, and Dunmer are idiots for not practicing cremation in a world where Necromancy is possible?
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
What kind of problems did the Septims have? Over 400 years: Potema and the Akavir invasion? Potema was pretty bad, but the Akavir invasion didn't really affect to many people. The Tharn incident could just as easily happened to a Mede. Same with the Oblivion Crisis. Numerous sources refer to the Third Era as Tamriel's golden age. Fourth era has been pretty harsh for the empire.

Septim's had problems with themselves, wars between the bloodlines, the Elder Council gaining majority power, debts, loss of Imperial authority, some questionable Emperors. Uriel VII brought about what was considered a "golden age" since the days of Tiber.

Sure the Medes inherited a declining Empire but they haven't been successful at all really. You can argue they would have been better than the Septims during the Third Era but that's not really what we're talking about here.

They held the Empire together, and Mede was widely loved. They brought about the Penitus Oculatus which have acted well against many internal Thalmor threats, the Synod and College of Whispers is a brilliant political gain since both are busy competing against each other for Imperial favor to ever become a threat.

They couldn't provide any relief in Morrowind, and lost a powerful ally because of it

Morrowind was lost under Ocato and the Stormcrown Interregnum. Provide relief into Morrowind how? With an Empire of shattered resources trying to recover from the worst of the Oblivion Crisis/all the civil wars?

they didn't try or couldn't reconcile the Forebears and Crowns in Hammerfell

Not even the Septim's could fix that, it had been going on since the days of Tiber. The internal politics of a province can't just be mended because the Empire demands it, the Redguards have long often stated they're "Part of the Empire, but not subjects"

didn't get the Legion into shape

Lol? There were 18 Legions under Mede, they lost a good number of soldiers when Cyrodiil got overrun with undead, entire Legions being wiped out and the Imperial City itself besieged by thousands, if not millions of undead.

and then they basically rolled over during the coups in Summerset

Lost during Ocato and the Imperial Simulacrum...

Valenwood

Imperial forces defeated through espionage and expertly targeted attacks. They lost any hold in the entire Government.

and Elsweyr.

They left the Empire under Ocato... Titus Mede wasn't even in power when Elsweyr left.

It was following a pretty clear pattern and the Medes didn't do anything proactive about it. The Great War really shouldn't have been a surprise.

They were hit with Umbriel and all the undead... The Great War was a surprise even to the Blades (Who were operating within Aldmeri Dominion lands) No one saw the Great War coming. But of course the Medes should have known better than the people who were conducting espionage and gathering intelligence in Dominion lands.

Ulfric's militia beat the Forsworn once and that time he had to take Markarth. Markarth seems really defensible and I think I can remember an Imperial saying they'd like to see the Stormcloaks try to take this canyon. This time, a fully united Skyrim with an army would be fighting them out in the open

Forsworn don't operate "in the open" and Ulfric and his Militia defeated a fraction and sent the rest into the hills. the Forsworn and allied Hag Ravens have gained more power and they're willing to die for their cause.

and probably with the help of the Dragonborn.

Will most likely vanish after dealing with Alduin...

I don't think the Forsworn will continue to be much of a factor, with or without Thalmor.

Don't underestimate them, the Reachmen were able to conquer the Imperial City and become a Dynasty of Emperors...

Still there is more to espionage, the Thalmor will work to weaken Skyrim anyway they can. The Thalmor are skilled at what they do, the Empire can barely keep up with them, but at least they have some espionage ability. Some is better than none.

How does Skyrim make less sense for Hammerfell than the Empire? Two nations with the most skilled warriors and harshest climates, both suffered from the WGC, both hate the Thalmor and are at odds with the Empire, they're a perfect match

Because they hate each other, no one comes to Ulfric's aid. Not Hammerfell and not High Rock. There is a journal somewhere of a Redguard who blames the Stormcloaks for not aiding Hammerfell when it fought the Dominion. (Word of one person doesn't always mean everything, but it is still something)

The day Nords and Redguards fight together as two allied provinces, will be the most surprising thing ever. However following everything we know... they want nothing to do with each other. Majority of the Stormcloaks are against foreigners. Windhelm guards even consider the Orc Strongholds to be an affront to their people, you're not making many friends of other races.

You lack Battlemages, you lack espionage ability and you lack a naval fleet. You're not taking on the Aldmeri Dominion anytime soon, and that is the problem. The Second Great War could happen soon after the Civil War/Titus II dies.
 

TheQahnaarin

Son of Skyrim
How does Skyrim make less sense for Hammerfell than the Empire? Two nations with the most skilled warriors and harshest climates, both suffered from the WGC, both hate the Thalmor and are at odds with the Empire, they're a perfect match


Redguards do not fight the undead. I doubt the Thalmor have any issue with using whatever means needed to do so, like raising the countless dead in the Necropolis City in Alik'r. The Crowns if I remember correctly prefer the old ways of the Yokudan people, this means their dead cannot be slaughtered even if they are risen. To do so is sacrilege. Even the Forebears have shown a strong dislike of such acts.

Nords do not and have not ever gotten along with the Redguards. It was the Nordic people of ancient times that tried to drive the Yokudan people from Tamriel to begin with, and they failed horribly. Redguards to not forget their past, they worship it.

The Nords are people of Conflict. They have sown destruction and death among men and elves both. That is something that thanks to the Mede Dynasty was beginning to change. It shows with half of Skyrim against the bad old days. While Tiber Septim simply used them as a Tool.


The Medes were actually beginning to make the Nords more civilized and more human than they think they are. imo.



Also, random note. Who else think that every race save for the Altmer, and Dunmer are idiots for not practicing cremation in a world where Necromancy is possible?


And the War of the Blue Divide and the Five Year War happened but the Dominion is still around. And elven lifespans mean that the elves who fought each other and the Khajiit are probably the same ones in the dominion now.

Redguards are a smart people. They will recognize a war centuries ago means nothing if you can gain an ally against the dominion. Besides, by your logic, them rejoining the empire is even less likely due to the more recent betrayal of the WGC.

And your saying if faced with extinction the Redguards would honor their traditions and be slaughtered? What about the Camoran Ursuper's invasion? Redguards fought those undead no?
 
Top