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Lewsean

Member
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but I can't help but feel that his story was just sort of thrown into the game without any thought put into how it would effect the lore. Every other NPC that made an appearance in past DLC titles has been true to TES lore, such as Sheogorath & Umaril etc whereas Miraak seems like he shouldn't even exist. If someone could correct me that would be great, or at least post your thoughts ^_^ thanks.
 

TheNatural

Active Member
I am no expert on TES lore, and will never claim to be, but I am making an attempt to learn. Before right now, I hadn't given this much thought, but after reading your post, I think I have to agree. I feel as if it takes away from the main storyline. "You are the Dragonborn! There are none alive that share this power! unless a Daedric Lord gets bored"
 

Benthos

Proud Mer
I like to see that Miraak isn't alive at all, he's long since dead or at least ascended kinda like the Dwemer. He resides alongside Hermaeus Mora and kinda does his own thing which is why this dragonborn is never known throughout as he says he COULD'VE done something way back but chose a different path, completely abandoning everyone and everything.
 

Ivory

Let's Player
Actually Ivory someone does, just not exactly in those terms. The Greybeards do say that your character is the only Dragonborn alive that they know of and so they call you the Last Dragonborn. I believe that title is even in the prophecy about the Dragonborn. :eek: So yeah they kinda do, if ya think about it.


No. They say that "you have been the only one revealed to us this far.. Wether you're the only Dragonborn of this age is not ours to know."

That was a hint to DLC to come since the game came out imo. I always figured they'd have a DLC like this, though I assumed it would have involved Tiber Septim not the true first Dragonborn.
 

Lewsean

Member
Actually Ivory someone does, just not exactly in those terms. The Greybeards do say that your character is the only Dragonborn alive that they know of and so they call you the Last Dragonborn. I believe that title is even in the prophecy about the Dragonborn. :eek: So yeah they kinda do, if ya think about it.


No. They say that "you have been the only one revealed to us this far.. Wether you're the only Dragonborn of this age is not ours to know."

That was a hint to DLC to come since the game came out imo. I always figured they'd have a DLC like this, though I assumed it would have involved Tiber Septim not the true first Dragonborn.
They knew the second you killed a Dragon that the player character was Dovahkiin, why is this different for Miraak? You see it's these inconsistencies that make me hate the Dragonborn DLC, I can't stand the blatant plot holes.
 

Ivory

Let's Player
They knew the second you killed a Dragon that the player character was Dovahkiin, why is this different for Miraak? You see it's these inconsistencies that make me hate the Dragonborn DLC, I can't stand the blatant plot holes.


Because Miraak was not on Nirn. He is in Apocrypha. Not once is Miraak on Nirn at all. His spirit comes and goes, stealing souls from you, but remember. The greybeards aren't as wise as they are made out to be. They don't know everything. Just meeting you was a first time for them to ever meet a dragonborn themselves. They are not immortal. It's not a plothole unless the greybeards were involved with the DLC which they were not. They said they didn't know if there were other Dragonborns which was very possible. The Dragon blood has been around since forever.

Where do you see a plothole?
 

Lewsean

Member
They knew the second you killed a Dragon that the player character was Dovahkiin, why is this different for Miraak? You see it's these inconsistencies that make me hate the Dragonborn DLC, I can't stand the blatant plot holes.


Because Miraak was not on Nirn. He is in Apocrypha. Not once is Miraak on Nirn at all. His spirit comes and goes, stealing souls from you, but remember. The greybeards aren't as wise as they are made out to be. They don't know everything. Just meeting you was a first time for them to ever meet a dragonborn themselves. They are not immortal. It's not a plothole unless the greybeards were involved with the DLC which they were not. They said they didn't know if there were other Dragonborns which was very possible. The Dragon blood has been around since forever.

Where do you see a plothole?
Plot holes everywhere in the Dragonborn DLC, they're obviously covered up by adding in lore such as the Jailer and such.. I know it had to be like this because Miraak basically didn't exist prior to the Dragonborn DLC, which is where the problems arise. He's never mentioned ANYWHERE, I mean jesus christ he was the first Dragonborn yet nobody, not even Alduin mentions him, he conflicts with the St Alessia and Akatosh lore, even the Dragon Aspect shouts goes against lore even more by summoning an even older dragonborn to help you in combat which means there were dragonborn prior to the Merethic Era..
 

Ivory

Let's Player
Plot holes everywhere in the Dragonborn DLC, they're obviously covered up by adding in lore such as the Jailer and such.. I know it had to be like this because Miraak basically didn't exist prior to the Dragonborn DLC, which is where the problems arise. He's never mentioned ANYWHERE, I mean jesus christ he was the first Dragonborn yet nobody, not even Alduin mentions him

Why would Alduin mention a traitor? Hell, that's like saying "Why didn't Alduin tell me he had an younger brother that betrayed him?"

Alduin isn't your friend, why the hell would he, an arrogant, power mad dragon who sees you as insignificant bother to mention the first dragonborn?


he conflicts with the St Alessia and Akatosh lore, even the Dragon Aspect shouts goes against lore even more by summoning an even older dragonborn to help you in combat which means there were dragonborn prior to the Merethic Era..


This doesn't conflict at all. Why is it hard to believe there were Dragonborn before the rule of man? The first one was Miraak. No one knew what a dragonborn was until he showed his power, so where is the conflict? The legend had to come from somewhere. Just like the Last Dragonborn isn't related to Alessia and her heirs, Miraak came before them.
 

Kohlar the Unkilled

Time for some ale
I enjoyed the DLC, but didn't put as much thought into it as some of you have. Skyrim is my first Elder Scrolls game, so I'm not as familiar with the lore throughout. I have wondered about the Dragonborn who leaps into existence as a result of Dragon Aspect. Who is he? Whoever he is, he puts Miraak into a world of hurt, if he gets the chance.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
I firmly believe that Miraak is in fact canon, to expand the dragon cult lore, and to get to interact with one of the priests.

As far as his Dragon Aspect shout, and the ancient Dragonborn that comes in to aid you when your health is low.

What the Greybeards won't tell you is that you, as Dragonborn, holds a much greater power than you can even imagine. You can even go as far as to create your own shouts, and use it.Why do you think the Greybeards are hesitant to teach you words too fast?

Miraak created the Dragon Aspect shout as he clearly mentions it during battle, if you use his shout against him.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0xDB02a900
"So, you use my own Shout against me. You learn quickly."

If you watch the video when Miraak dies you clearly see that once Hermaeus Mora kills him he turned into bones, and then you absorb his soul like you would when you kill a dragon. Mind you that you're not like any normal mortal. You have the soul and the blood of the dragon.


A Dragonborn who kills another Dragonborn gets to absorb their soul and with that steals his power. In my speculation I firmly believe that Miraak, at some point of his ancient life must of interacted with another Dragonborn, and successfully killed him. He absorbed his soul and then used it to enslave it therefor forcing the soul to fight for him during battle.

Perhaps he didn't invented the dragon aspect shout after all. In fact he probably stole it from another Dragonborn.
 

Ivory

Let's Player
I enjoyed the DLC, but didn't put as much thought into it as some of you have. Skyrim is my first Elder Scrolls game, so I'm not as familiar with the lore throughout. I have wondered about the Dragonborn who leaps into existence as a result of Dragon Aspect. Who is he? Whoever he is, he puts Miraak into a world of hurt, if he gets the chance.

It's assumed to believed to be the second dragonborn.
 

Lewsean

Member
I enjoyed the DLC, but didn't put as much thought into it as some of you have. Skyrim is my first Elder Scrolls game, so I'm not as familiar with the lore throughout. I have wondered about the Dragonborn who leaps into existence as a result of Dragon Aspect. Who is he? Whoever he is, he puts Miraak into a world of hurt, if he gets the chance.

It's assumed to believed to be the second dragonborn.
But how did he come in contact with the second Dragonborn if he was locked away in Apocrypha?
 

Toxius

Frost Wolf
I enjoyed the DLC, but didn't put as much thought into it as some of you have. Skyrim is my first Elder Scrolls game, so I'm not as familiar with the lore throughout. I have wondered about the Dragonborn who leaps into existence as a result of Dragon Aspect. Who is he? Whoever he is, he puts Miraak into a world of hurt, if he gets the chance.

It's assumed to believed to be the second dragonborn.
But how did he come in contact with the second Dragonborn if he was locked away in Apocrypha?


He wasn't always in Apocrypha, just sometime after he was about to be killed.
Also I believe Miraak was the First "recorded" Dragonborn in history and there might have been way more before him, we wouldn't really know.


Because Miraak was not on Nirn. He is in Apocrypha. Not once is Miraak on Nirn at all. His spirit comes and goes, stealing souls from you, but remember. The greybeards aren't as wise as they are made out to be. They don't know everything. Just meeting you was a first time for them to ever meet a dragonborn themselves. They are not immortal. It's not a plothole unless the greybeards were involved with the DLC which they were not. They said they didn't know if there were other Dragonborns which was very possible. The Dragon blood has been around since forever.

Where do you see a plothole?


^
That point where he is able to come and go as he pleases, stealing the Dragon souls Also clears that point up.
Also The greybeards didn't know that you were the Dragonborn, They just called him using that shout, and you happen to answer that call and they test your powers with the basic shouts.

  • Much of Miraak's dialogue seems to have been cut. Game data reveals the Dragonborn and Miraak converse longer before the battle at the Summit of Apocrypha takes place. Some of these lines include "I grieve that you must meet your end this way but necessity demands it.", "You..You are the true Dragonborn.." and "Well fought, Dragonborn, but I'm afraid this is not over. I shall return and take what is mine." This suggests that another battle was to take place or Hermaeus Mora does not kill Miraak and he escapes.

Here's an extract from Elderscrolls wiki, the official one.
Which suggests another appearance from him?
To be fair, much of Miraaks past has been shrouded or hidden. Possibly because of his ties with Hermaeus Mora and perhaps his true history is hidden in Apocrypha.
Also Apocrypha is a place for hidden knowledge, which could have led to him being able to discover how to create his own shouts.
He does use a special four word shout too, now isn't that odd?

Miraak uses a special four word shout that allows him to kill a dragon instantly, absorb its soul, and heal himself. It is the dragon's name followed by "ziil los dii du!", which translates to "[Dragon's name], your soul is mine to devour!" The shout has an ID of DLC2MiraakFakeShoutSpell and is called "Marked For Death - Krii." This is unusual, as most phrases or shouts in Dragon Language are made up of three words.


  • "You have no idea of the true power a Dragonborn can wield!"
More extracts from the elderscrolls wiki. This suggests the hidden knowledge he possesses.
 

Kohlar the Unkilled

Time for some ale
I wonder why Miraak's Dragon Aspect doesn't call forth an Ancient Dragonborn to fight for him?

I like the idea that Miraak is the first "recorded" Dragonborn. The Ancient Dragonborn warrior could be from a time far before. A long series of TES novels could be composed based on both established lore and speculative. Such would be a grand epic if properly executed.
 

Ivory

Let's Player
I wonder why Miraak's Dragon Aspect doesn't call forth an Ancient Dragonborn to fight for him?

I like the idea that Miraak is the first "recorded" Dragonborn. The Ancient Dragonborn warrior could be from a time far before. A long series of TES novels could be composed based on both established lore and speculative. Such would be a grand epic if properly executed.

Probably the same reason why Dragonborn's shouts of Fire Breath and Frost Breath are different from Dragons versions. Or how Draugr's versions are also different to the DB's.
 

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