Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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Rimfaxe96

Well-Known Member
Can you imagine the reaction of Ulfric Stormcloak had he heard this observational critique?

He'd probably denounce her boob size.
 

Hargood

Defender of Helpless Kittens
I decided to drop in for a spell. It's been a long while so I wanted to see how'its going, look around, see how the threads are..


.....874 pages.

Eight hundred and seventy-four pages ?!?!?!?!?!?!



...



874 People!!!!!!

..


ochocientos setenta y cuatro páginas!!!!!!!!!!

874 PAGES!!!!!!! :eek:
 

Rimfaxe96

Well-Known Member
874 PAGES!!!!!!! :eek:

You know, I read the book "The Great War" again and had some kind of 'revelation' while reading it.
Basically, I think the guys from Bethesda are laughing their butts off whenever they read discussions like this one, 'cause they've already given us the solution:

All those who value freedom over tyranny can only hope that before it is too late, Hammerfell and the Empire will be reconciled and stand united against the Thalmor threat. Otherwise, any hope to stem the tide of Thalmor rule over all of Tamriel is dimmed.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Great_War

The only real solution is that Hammerfell and the Empire get their sh!t together and fight. The entire Empire, that includes Skyrim.
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
Ysgramor was a genocidal fool who though the near extinction of a race was a handy punishment for the fear provoked attack on Sarathal.
Provoked? Are you serious? Well no it wasn't my friend, The Snow Elves massacred the Nords because of the Eye of Magnus and because the Nords were growing too quickly, The only historians who say otherwise are some Elven ones and it can take you two seconds to figure out why that is. There were literally three surviving Nords from the Night of Tears the rest were mercilessly murdered. And don't you think if the Nords were provoking attack they would be more prepared to fight off a raid.

Ulfric also never created, nor will he create an army anytime soon, to fight the Thalmor. Ulfric only created the army to fight for Ulfric. Three things easily point in this direction.
Alright, shoot.

1) The Markarth Incident. By using his milita he rallied to slaughter innocent Reach men (and Nords) on the street and push his agenda on Jarl Igmund for such service, and probably sealing connections with the Silver-Bloods simultaneously.
He didn't slaughter "innocent Reachmen and Nords". theres two easy points to counter that, The Reachmen stole Markarth from us and ultimately slaughtered everyone who wasn't a Reachman in it. The Reachmen have a strict "No foreigner in the reach" Policy so it's likely they weren't on the road to become a recognized nation otherwise the Empire wouldn't have wanted it back. So no, he didn't slaughter innocent Nords because there were None to be slaughtered. Just as well there are Reachmen from the day's of the Markarth incident that still reside in Markarth, so no he didn't slaughter everyone and he didn't push his agenda on Jarl Igmund, who wasn't even the Jarl at the time. Lets not forget the One sealing remaining factor here, and that is that you are quoting a book that has an obvious political agenda, not an Imperial one, but a Forsworn one.

2) The Challenge Against Torygg. No one was expecting the challenge, except Ulfric and his followers. Granted it technically is Nordic custom, he certainly picks and chooses what actual customs one should follow. Because who needs the moot?
when the moot favors Elisif, I agree, Damn the moot. Are you kidding me?
"she'd hand Skyrim to the elves on a silver plate"- Ulfric Stormcloak.
Hell she's already friends with Elenwen.

3) Ulfric is ultimately as ignorant of Nordic culture as Tullius appears to be at the start of the game. Ulfric not only picks witch customs he feels are to be followed, he forgets the most imbedded Nordic tradition of all; the Empire.
Oh please, Ulfric is way more well versed in Nordic culture then Tulius, heres two easy things that say exactly that.
1.) Hes A NORD, so I think he knows about his own culture
2.) The Empire is not Nordic tradition, the Nords joined the Empire because Talos Stormcrown, Ysmir, Dragon of the North, was commanding it. We recognize power, this "Empire" is but a shadow of it's former self. It has given up Talos, and therefore, given up it's ties to Skyrim. This is why Ulfric, and many others side with him, when he say's exactly that.
"If this was my Empire, I'd be able to worship whoever I damned well pleased. You wish to see an Empire without Talos? Without its soul? We should be fighting those witch-elves, not bending knee to them. The Emperor is nothing more than a puppet of the Thalmor. Skyrim needs a High King who will fight for her, and Whiterun needs a Jarl who will do the same."- Vignar Gray-Mane

The Empire was founded on Nordic principles, and the idea of Talos worship directly stems from worship of Shor. Both tend to parallel.

The Nords have aways been with the Empire, not just during the sweet spots. In the mass wave of confusion and doubt, Ulfric is capitalizing on the uncertainty brought upon by the Thalmor to further his standing.
This Empire, has no more Nordic Principles then the New Gnisis Cornerclub in Windhelm. and that is to say there were Nordic Principles and now there isn't. They were drowned out by Elven Supremacy. That's not to say I hate the Cornerclub and wan't it to be Nord only, and Nord based, I'm just using it as an analogy.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
I sat down and did some reevaluation. The Empire won the war for who I believe is ultimately right. Time to dive back into this thread.

Part of this is unwarranted hatred. I'm truth the Nords have done many more atrocities in history to the Elves than the Elves had done to the Nords. Although Early Mer were slave keepers and sometimes a group of Daedra worshipers, Ysgramor was a genocidal fool who though the near extinction of a race was a handy punishment for the fear provoked attack on Sarathal.

Care to share me the source of information that you're getting this from? Ysgramor a genocidal fool? you couldn't be more wrong.

Full version of Night of tears: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Night_of_Tears_(book)

It was also the site of terrible bloodshed, when the elves attempted to drive the Nords out of Skyrim, to succeed only in incurring their wrath in the form of Ysgramor and his fabled Five Hundred Companions, who swept the elves from Skyrim and firmly established it as the home of the Nords.

What happened on that Night of Tears, when Saarthal was razed to the ground? What provoked the elves to such a deliberate, vicious attack, and what prompted such a severe response from the Nords?

The true motives behind the Night of Tears have been obscured to us by the passage of time, but I believe this was not a simple war of territory, or of control of Skyrim. I believe that what happened was a significant event based around something very particular.

The Nords found something when they built their city, buried deep in the ground. They attempted to keep it buried, but the elves learned of it and coveted it for themselves. Thus they assaulted Saarthal, their goal not to drive the Nords out but to secure this power for themselves. I believe Ysgramor knew something of what the elves would find under Saarthal, and rallied together his people to keep the elves from gaining it. When Nords once again controlled Skyrim, this power was buried deep below the earth and sealed away.

Ysgramor was a bloody fricken hero and not a genocidal fool from preventing the elves from possessing such a powerful magical artifact that could of killed a lot of people if it was in the wrong hands.... uh like in this photo below.

800px-SR-quest-The_Eye_of_Magnus_03.jpg


Ulfric also never created, nor will he create an army anytime soon, to fight the Thalmor. Ulfric only created the army to fight for Ulfric. Three things easily point in this directiom.

Galmar disagrees with you ;)

When we've reclaimed our homeland from the Imperials, we'll take the fight to the Thalmor. They are the true enemy. Make no mistake.

1) The Markarth Incident. By using his milita he rallied to slaughter innocent Reach men (and Nords) on the street and push his agenda on Jarl Igmund for such service, and probably sealing connections with the Silver-Bloods simultaneously.

Wrong again. Igmund father hired Ufric to retake back the reach with an exchange of free worship of talos.

2) The Challenge Against Torygg. No one was expecting the challenge, except Ulfric and his followers. Granted it technically is Nordic custom, he certainly picks and chooses what actual customs one should follow. Because who needs the moot?

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00065c7b ;)

3) Ulfric is ultimately as ignorant of Nordic culture as Tullius appears to be at the start of the game. Ulfric not only picks witch customs he feels are to be followed, he forgets the most imbedded Nordic tradition of all; the Empire.

Wrong again and again.

The Empire was founded on Nordic principles, and the idea of Talos worship directly stems from worship of Shor. Both tend to parallel.

The Nords have aways been with the Empire, not just during the sweet spots. In the mass wave of confusion and doubt, Ulfric is capitalizing on the uncertainty brought upon by the Thalmor to further his standing.

I can finally agree to you. The Empire was founded on Nordic principles, however those principles was soon loss when the Emperor signed the WGC to outlaw Talos. This is what angered a lot of people. How can you disrespect the very same man who founded the Empire? Talos is the Empire. To ban the worship of Talos was treason.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
The Empire is not Nordic tradition, the Nords joined the Empire because Talos Stormcrown, Ysmir, Dragon of the North, was commanding it. We recognize power, this "Empire" is but a shadow of it's former self.

The Nords joined the Empire after General Talos defeated them at Sancre Tor. They didn't follow him because he was Dragonborn, in fact they fought against him after it was known he was the Dragonborn.

They didn't like the tactics and methods of the Breton Battlemage Command. Their defeat made them swear fealty to Talos and betray their Breton allies.

As for "this Empire" the Nords did join it. Skyrim itself endorsed the Mede Dynasty and Titus Mede as their Emperor, so saying they only joined because Talos was commanding it, is false. Especially since it wasn't the reason they joined and after the fall of the Septim Dynasty, the Nords wanted Mede as ruler.

On an extra note the Empire has in fact become Nordic tradition, you do hear many Legionnaires talk about that their father and grandfather and so on was in the Legion, that it has become tradition for many sons. Skyrim has been part of the Empire for a very long time, you can't deny that the Empire is very much part of Nordic culture as Jarls, Moots, Companions etc.

Skyrim and the Imperial Empire have intertwined so much, that the Nords in Oblivion and Morrowind are like a completely different race. The Imperial religion has taken over the Nordic pantheon, where even the Greybeards call Kyne by her Imperial name.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
How can you disrespect the very same man who founded the Empire? Talos is the Empire. To ban the worship of Talos was treason.

Talos the God =/= Tiber Septim the man.

Edit: He also never asked for worship, didn't build temples to himself, his dream was the Empire.

Most Nord's felt as though Talos was forgotten, betrayed by the Empire and the Imperials. As we can see they're mostly right. Most of the Imperials I have met in my travels have been quoted in saying "By the Eight"

Go to Riften under Stormcloak rule, speak with the Priests of Mara. Your character can only ask "Which of the Eight Divines do you serve?"

Looks like you've betrayed Talos. On another mention, the Jarl that Stormcloaks place in Morthal worships the Eight.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
How can you disrespect the very same man who founded the Empire? Talos is the Empire. To ban the worship of Talos was treason.

Talos the God =/= Tiber Septim the man.

Edit: He also never asked for worship, didn't build temples to himself, his dream was the Empire.

My newest nord barbarian scout is atheistic, as in no religious beliefs at all. He also believes that Sovengarde is a plane of oblivion ruled by some Daedra.
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
The Greybeards can't be asked, no one is allowed into their temple unless summoned. Besides if I remember correctly, they can't use him anymore because of Talos.
didn't Balgruuf make the journey, as well as many others? Also I don't think that means they can't summon him I think that just means he became the Underking and he was the adviser of Pelagius I. Also, after the Warp of the west isn't it believed he reclaimed his heart?

Because no one has any love for Skyrim.
Again, a pity.

"Regardless. It appears Skyrim must stand alone. Again." - Ulfric Stormcloak

No one is coming to Ulfric's aid against the Empire. Hammerfell, Morrowind and High Rock all have very good reasons to just invade Skyrim while they're weak.[/quote]
I doubt it, what good would it do. You even said Hammerfell is devastated. Morrowind might but I see no great way to invade, they'd have to cross armies across the Velothi mountains into certain death, If the cold doesn't kill them the Nords will. And High Rock is allied with the Empire and can't.

Why didn't they use it during the Tiber Wars, when the Imperial Empire was expanding and there were plenty of violence on the edges of Valenwood.
Because of just that they were at the edges, They weren't directly befalling Valenwood, But you' are directly marching into it. You're marching dead on into the heart of the forest.

The Empire is attacking the Aldmeri Dominion, now the Bosmer loyal to the Thalmor won't use it. Because they would kill them too. The Bosmer also have very good reasons to hate the Thalmor, so why would they use it when they can be liberated?
This is Not because of the Thalmor or the Empire, It's because of the Green Pact, they'll be forced to use it to keep their bond with Y'ffree.

This again, what unsuspecting armies? Show me where it says the Aldmeri did a surprise attack on the Nords? You keep saying that, trying to discredit Titus II's tactics. But now that you've learned the tactics are good, you try to make out the Legions were clueless. Are the Nords unable to put patrols out ahead of the marching main force?
The Aldmeri Counterattacked from Bravil and Skingrad and it was unexpected. The fact remains that Tiber didn't foresee this and the Nord legions were forced to hold strong on their own and keep the Aldmeri at bay.

Obviously, read history. What large medieval battles aren't filled with a huge loss of life?
Quite a few, but you lost so many men that after the battle you were simply in no shape to continue the fight.

As of Skyrim few. This is recent behavior for the Nords, from the last two hundred years.
But I thought Race didn't matter, and now you're saying the Nords don't like Magic. See the problem?

Games are one thing. The life of Tamriel another.
I suppose so.

In the games they are. The races you choose to play as are all action driven, you do the main quest, you clear forts, caves and get into battles. The player hero aside, look at Tamriel as a living world. The books and such all go into this, the NPCs etc.

You're using the player hero as the standard for everyone else. In lore, and the 'living world' aspect of TES. It isn't the same. Being a Nord doesn't make you a better warrior, they all have to train. They're not born with it. Listening to conversations, the Companions is a good one. They talk about the need for training.
You can't just pick up a sword or bow and be skilled with it.
Of course, But Nordic culture is a Warrior Culture, They expect you to know these things, and Most Nords do.

I was talking about NPCs.
Really, tell me?

They do, that is an inborn trait. But skill with weapons isn't something anyone is born with, they all have to learn.
Well then, in a way, race matters.

Give me an instance besides Borgas.
I can't, because no one has been stupid enough to invade Valenwood in such a large force after Borgas, until Now.

Everyone gets recycled at one point. You keep saying he's supposed to know this, why is he supposed to know this? He's a military general with a job to crush the rebellion, and he almost did. He was actually going to take Ulfric's head back to Cyrodiil with him.
You would think the Empire would make sure that he know's his enemy inside and out, but he doesn't he relies on a single Nord Woman to get the basic's across.

He has Rikke to aid him in the Nordic aspect of things. It isn't like he's just ignoring it and doing his own thing, he listens to Rikke.

Side note, he does learn these things during his time in Skyrim. So what is your problem? It isn't like he just refuses to listen and just yaps on not caring.
Actually I'm pretty sure that is what he's doing:
Rikke: "General."
Tullius: "You people and your damn Jarls."
Rikke: "Sir? You can't force a Nord to accept help he hasn't asked for."
Tullius: "If Ulfric's making a move for Whiterun, then we need to be there to stop him. Draft another letter with the usual platitudes, but this time share some of your intelligence regarding Ulfric's plans. Embellish if you have to. We'll let it seem like it's his idea."
Rikke: "Yes, sir."
Tullius: "You Nords and your bloody sense of honor."
Rikke: "Sir."
Sure he listens to Rikke, but he doesn't seem to care and does like you said yap on not caring. He also say's he will never understand the Nords so there you go.

"Can't say I'll ever get used to the damn cold, or understand these Nords... but I've come to respect them. The harshness of Skyrim has a way of carving a man down to his true self." - General Tullius
Oh Well, Good for him, at the end of the war he finally came to respect the Nords as a people instead of a race of belligerent Barbarians. Does he wan't a cookie?

How little you know about TES...
Oh really? Please, explain to me why they wouldn't. After all this is the Aldmeri Dominion, pretty much the most powerful force at the time, please explain to me why they couldn't fell the great White Gold-Tower.

Good, except you left out the part that the Empire removing Talos is just returning the favor that he did. Talos abandoned the Empire over two hundred years ago.
When? The Oblivion Crisis? Hardly, Talos abandoning them, hell they had to use his blood to even get the amulet to work, without him Tamriel would've fallen victim to the tender mercy of Mehrunes Dagon.

I find it cute the Stormcloaks get so worked up over the Imperial religion. Last game they were against it. They're so Imperialized that it is amusing when Stormcloaks in this thread go on about true Nords at times.
I find it infuriating that the Empire is so willfully ignorant of our pleas and our cause. Are you so washed up in your "Imperial Authority" to see that it's dying, its crumbling beneath you. Imagine if you will, the point of view of the Nords: Here we are, the Nords, strong, proud, and free. For centuries it was our pride and our independence that kept us alive. Enter Talos Stormcrown, Hjalti Early-Beard, the great Tiber Septim, who who fought with us, And, who fought against us, until we realized who he was: The Dragonborn, Ysmir, Dragon of the North. After this stunning event we fought for the Empire, for centuries. We fought to Conquer all of Tamriel. We fought and gave our blood to maintain your Imperial Authority in the Great War, and how did you repay us: Only by outlawing one of the most important gods in our, and your's for that matter, pantheon. Well... that's fair. Think about Jonna's legions, mostly Nord, fighting to maintain their way of life and the Empire's. Fighting long and hard in the Battle of the Red Ring and the many battles before it, and finally coming out victorious. Ready to keep the fight going, and then, silence. The White Gold Concordant is signed and all of that fighting, all of the blood, sweat, and tears, given those days and the many days, months, centuries before it, were for nothing. The Nords lose their right to worship Talos, the only reason they were in the Empire in the first place. Are you so blinded by the Emperors words that, even when they're wrong, you enforce them to the best of your ability and oppress us further. When your Emperor signed that Godsforsaken treaty you spat in our face. You allowed us to be forced into a harsh dictatorship by Elves. I hope you take this into consideration.

The Stormcloaks can keep Talos, he abandoned the Nords long before Imperials signed the White-Gold Concordat.
Obviously we can't, because your Empire seems intent on making sure we can't.

Source that it was unsuspected? Or are you just grasping for straws here?
The counterattack was unexpected. It says so in the Great War. Or did you "conveniently" forget about that?

Here is what the Nords had to say: My men and I, Nords of Skyrim all, will soon join with the Emperor's legions to attack the Imperial City. The Aldmeri are entrenched within and our losses will be severe. It is a desperate gambit, for if we do not reclaim the city, we will lose the war.

Seems like they were aware of what was at stake.
They were aware of what was at stake, they knew what they were fighting for. What they didn't know was that there was going to be a counterattack from the west. Apparently Titus wasn't aware of that either.

They're looking great.
You keep telling yourself that.

No idea, but you're assuming they're not.
Because they're still animals, and Animals tend to do things in groups to further the existence of their species.

National Geographic right here, aye? Animal expert too. Funny, I was certain predatory animals who hunted large groups picked off the weakest, the old or the young.
They do, and i can guarantee you they will scope out some sort of significant weakness, or even weaknesses. They'll stay hidden, and most likely attack from the back to catch you off guard. Oh you'll fight them off as hard as you can, hack, and slash. And eventually, you will kill them, but thats not to say there won't be significant losses in your line. I almost forgot to mention the Bosmeri Archers that attack from the trees unexpectedly.

Not head on they don't. Show me a single source of large numbers of soldiers being attacked by these creatures. Every province has dangerous creatures.
Not every province has Basilisks and giant griffons/werevultures. Also I don't need a source for this, its a hypothetical that I proposed to you, that CAN happen. And who says they'll attack you head on, Snakes are known for stalking down their prey in a stealthy manner and then completely overpowering them or killing with venom. The same can be said about Basilisks except multiply the size by 50. As well Griffons probably have the same hunting style as Eagles except you would need to once again multiply the size by 50.

Did Borgas have an army with him? He was killed because he was trying to get Cyrodiil to have a joint war with the Camoran Dynasty. Borgas wanted to attack the Bosmer themselves.
Not Borgas, sorry, the Bosmer used it against the Khajiit in The Five Year War when they attempted to burn down Vindisi or that was expected. it ripped everything apart and was absolutely devastating.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_Dance_in_Fire,_Chapter_4

Seriously? Armies avoid Valenwood in that little world of citation needed.
Well, DO THEY?

Because the Empire has more soldiers, more resources, more assets.
Less freedom, corruption in the Elder Council, Torture...

Stormcloaks are a basic militia who can't even reach the Aldmeri Dominion. After the war, every Jarl gets his/her own army
After the war, Skyrim should have a decent ammount of time to train up their armies they won't be a militia anymore.

and I personally don't like the idea of an General Skald.
Well, I agree with you there. Brina is the much better Jarl

Yes the Companions did. That played a major factor in the war against elves, also because it lasted till through the reign of 13 Kings.
Right that's what I meant.

You can either invade the Aldmeri Dominion with the Empire or invade them with the Stormcloaks. Personally I prefer the side who can afford matching armor.
Yes, That is MOST unorthodox! They should be Burnt at the stake for not complying with our Fashion quo. Most Unorthodox Indeed!!!

There are enough mindless followers in the Stormcloaks for the both of us.
And enough blind Imperials to go around, friend!

The Nords joined the Empire after General Talos defeated them at Sancre Tor. They didn't follow him because he was Dragonborn, in fact they fought against him after it was known he was the Dragonborn.
Most sided with Talos after it was known that he was a Dragonborn. Other Nords, indeed, sided with the Bretons at the battle of Sancre Tor, they resisted Talos' rule.

They didn't like the tactics and methods of the Breton Battlemage Command. Their defeat made them swear fealty to Talos and betray their Breton allies.
I'm sorry but with a name like "Hjalti Early-Beard", it makes it hard for me to believe he was a Breton. I mean were talking about people with names like

On an extra note the Empire has in fact become Nordic tradition, you do hear many Legionnaires talk about that their father and grandfather and so on was in the Legion, that it has become tradition for many sons. Skyrim has been part of the Empire for a very long time, you can't deny that the Empire is very much part of Nordic culture as Jarls, Moots, Companions etc.
The Companions? They show no support towards either side, Although if more support were to be lent it would likely go to the Stormcloaks because of Vignar.

Skyrim and the Imperial Empire have intertwined so much, that the Nords in Oblivion and Morrowind are like a completely different race. The Imperial religion has taken over the Nordic pantheon, where even the Greybeards call Kyne by her Imperial name.
This is true, and I find it very strange that not a single Nord says anything about Kyne and rather calls her "Kynareth" who is actually a completely different goddess all together.[/quote]
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
didn't Balgruuf make the journey, as well as many others? Also I don't think that means they can't summon him I think that just means he became the Underking and he was the adviser of Pelagius I. Also, after the Warp of the west isn't it believed he reclaimed his heart?

Making the pilgrimage is one thing, going inside High Hrothgar is another.

It makes no difference, they haven't summoned him and their dialogue doesn't suggest they ever plan to do so.

I doubt it, what good would it do. You even said Hammerfell is devastated. Morrowind might but I see no great way to invade, they'd have to cross armies across the Velothi mountains into certain death, If the cold doesn't kill them the Nords will. And High Rock is allied with the Empire and can't.

Expansion, revenge for past atrocities? Hammerfell is devastated, or maybe they're not anymore. The Redguards have united for the first time in a very long time, and I believe they'll be a major factor in upcoming events.

As for Morrowind, even the Empire is smart enough to have a staging point just in case. They can enter through the pass around the Rift. There is this entry way into Morrowind around where Fort Dawnguard is. I wouldn't claim certain death on them, the Dunmer are nothing but resourceful.

Because of just that they were at the edges, They weren't directly befalling Valenwood, But you' are directly marching into it. You're marching dead on into the heart of the forest.

Truthfully I have no idea what the Empire plans, they will or won't march into Valenwood. The Bosmer use the Great Hunt as a means of revenge or assassination.

This is Not because of the Thalmor or the Empire, It's because of the Green Pact, they'll be forced to use it to keep their bond with Y'ffree.

If they can even still do it, the Thalmor were conducting great purges of the Bosmer within Valenwood.

The Aldmeri Counterattacked from Bravil and Skingrad and it was unexpected. The fact remains that Tiber didn't foresee this and the Nord legions were forced to hold strong on their own and keep the Aldmeri at bay.

They faced resistance, not unexpected surprise attacks.

Quite a few, but you lost so many men that after the battle you were simply in no shape to continue the fight.

Yeah basically, it was the last gambit for the Empire. Take the city or lose the war. The final battle tends to be bloody.

But I thought Race didn't matter, and now you're saying the Nords don't like Magic. See the problem?

Race doesn't matter, this is a mindset. Not a thing you're born with. This comes from the Oblivion Crisis, Great Collapse and the Great War.

Of course, But Nordic culture is a Warrior Culture, They expect you to know these things, and Most Nords do.

They expect you to learn.

Really, tell me?

Tell you what? That there are probably Bosmer warriors in TESO?

I can't, because no one has been stupid enough to invade Valenwood in such a large force after Borgas, until Now.

Except Borgas had a different agenda and was assassinated by the Wild Hunt. By logic if the same thing would happen, the Bosmer would have started the Wild Hunt beforehand.

You would think the Empire would make sure that he know's his enemy inside and out, but he doesn't he relies on a single Nord Woman to get the basic's across.

Tullius was sent because he is good at fixing troublesome places. He doesn't need to know where Nords go when they die.

Actually I'm pretty sure that is what he's doing:
Rikke: "General."
Tullius: "You people and your damn Jarls."
Rikke: "Sir? You can't force a Nord to accept help he hasn't asked for."
Tullius: "If Ulfric's making a move for Whiterun, then we need to be there to stop him. Draft another letter with the usual platitudes, but this time share some of your intelligence regarding Ulfric's plans. Embellish if you have to. We'll let it seem like it's his idea."
Rikke: "Yes, sir."
Tullius: "You Nords and your bloody sense of honor."
Rikke: "Sir."
Sure he listens to Rikke, but he doesn't seem to care and does like you said yap on not caring. He also say's he will never understand the Nords so there you go.

What is your entire point? Because he didn't know the word 'Sovngarde' he is a crap Military Commander? Tullius is a very good General, he nearly ended the rebellion. Shocking how he almost crushed the rebellion without even knowing Sovngarde. How illogical.

Oh Well, Good for him, at the end of the war he finally came to respect the Nords as a people instead of a race of belligerent Barbarians. Does he wan't a cookie?

You're running out of arguments.

Oh really? Please, explain to me why they wouldn't. After all this is the Aldmeri Dominion, pretty much the most powerful force at the time, please explain to me why they couldn't fell the great White Gold-Tower.

Maybe they didn't try or maybe they didn't have enough time. Your whole "They needed a reason to keep the Empire in the fifth game" makes no sense. Why wouldn't the Empire be in the fifth TES?

When? The Oblivion Crisis? Hardly, Talos abandoning them, hell they had to use his blood to even get the amulet to work, without him Tamriel would've fallen victim to the tender mercy of Mehrunes Dagon.

Talking about Morrowind. Also it was Tiber's blood needed to unlock the portal, not work the amulet. Do you even know what the Amulet of Kings was? After that remark, I doubt it.

I find it infuriating that the Empire is so willfully ignorant of our pleas and our cause. Are you so washed up in your "Imperial Authority" to see that it's dying, its crumbling beneath you. Imagine if you will, the point of view of the Nords: snip

And yet, many Nords stand against Ulfric.

Obviously we can't, because your Empire seems intent on making sure we can't.

The Empire was ignoring it, Nords and other races were free to worship Talos in secret. There are Eight other Gods, give them some attention.

The counterattack was unexpected. It says so in the Great War. Or did you "conveniently" forget about that?

Lord Naarifin was taken by surprise by Decianus's assault, but Jonna's troops faced bitter resistance as the Aldmeri counterattacked from Bravil and Skingrad. The heroic Nord legionnaires held firm, however, beating off the piecemeal Aldmeri attacks. By the fifth day of the battle, the Aldmeri army in the Imperial City was surrounded.

Where were the Nords hit by unexpected attacks?

They were aware of what was at stake, they knew what they were fighting for. What they didn't know was that there was going to be a counterattack from the west. Apparently Titus wasn't aware of that either.

Nope. Proven wrong, again.

Because they're still animals, and Animals tend to do things in groups to further the existence of their species.

Pack animals, not all animals.

They do, and i can guarantee you they will scope out some sort of significant weakness, or even weaknesses. They'll stay hidden, and most likely attack from the back to catch you off guard. Oh you'll fight them off as hard as you can, hack, and slash. And eventually, you will kill them, but thats not to say there won't be significant losses in your line. I almost forgot to mention the Bosmeri Archers that attack from the trees unexpectedly.

So you say without anything to back it up. Oh, the Bosmeri Archers... Well they can meet Imperial Rangers and Battlemages.

Not every province has Basilisks and giant griffons/werevultures. Also I don't need a source for this, its a hypothetical that I proposed to you, that CAN happen. And who says they'll attack you head on, Snakes are known for stalking down their prey in a stealthy manner and then completely overpowering them or killing with venom. The same can be said about Basilisks except multiply the size by 50. As well Griffons probably have the same hunting style as Eagles except you would need to once again multiply the size by 50.

And yet... They haven't been a problem for the Legion for hundreds of years while they were in Valenwood.

Not Borgas, sorry, the Bosmer used it against the Khajiit in The Five Year War when they attempted to burn down Vindisi or that was expected. it ripped everything apart and was absolutely devastating.

It was revenge for Vindisi.

Well, DO THEY?

Can you find anything that mentions armies avoid Valenwood?

Less freedom, corruption in the Elder Council, Torture...

Freedom? Ulfric's ideology is "With us or against us" being neutral is the same as being the enemy. In fact in Season Unending being neutral is the same as Imperial.

Ulfric takes over the country through military force, keeps the Jarls in check with Galmar. Ulfric also makes it very clear when telling off Galmar or Vignar that he, and he alone dictates the fate of Skyrim.

The entire Elder Council isn't corrupt, you'll always get some. But one man doesn't have absolute power in the Empire, the provinces are represented in Imperial politics.

Torture is universal in Tamriel, even Ulfric has torture equipment in his palace.

After the war, Skyrim should have a decent ammount of time to train up their armies they won't be a militia anymore.

No. They won't, which might not be a good thing like you hope. Siding with the Stormcloaks is a ticking time bomb.

For brief periods, one ruler has managed to unite all of Skyrim, but the Nord character is one essentially of conflict, and the confederacies never last. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_3rd_Edition/Skyrim

Yes, That is MOST unorthodox! They should be Burnt at the stake for not complying with our Fashion quo. Most Unorthodox Indeed!!!

;)

There are enough mindless followers in the Stormcloaks for the both of us.
And enough blind Imperials to go around, friend!

Most sided with Talos after it was known that he was a Dragonborn. Other Nords, indeed, sided with the Bretons at the battle of Sancre Tor, they resisted Talos' rule.

I'm sorry but with a name like "Hjalti Early-Beard", it makes it hard for me to believe he was a Breton. I mean were talking about people with names like

I didn't say he was Breton? Besides if I remember correctly, Talos is described as being short. I can't recall should be in the 'Real Barenziah' somewhere.

The Companions? They show no support towards either side, Although if more support were to be lent it would likely go to the Stormcloaks because of Vignar.

The Companions are part of Nordic tradition, regardless of political views. They wouldn't lend aid to the Stormcloaks, not even for Vignar. They refuse to enter into wars, because it would divide the Companions into internal fighting. Not all of the Companions believe in one side, it would be shield brother vs shield brother if they tried to pick a side.

This is true, and I find it very strange that not a single Nord says anything about Kyne and rather calls her "Kynareth" who is actually a completely different goddess all together.

They have more in common with Imperials than they'd like to believe.
 

Vatonage

Joyeuse et Glorieuse
Maybe they didn't try or maybe they didn't have enough time. Your whole "They needed a reason to keep the Empire in the fifth game" makes no sense. Why wouldn't the Empire be in the fifth TES?

More like if the Empire wasn't in the Fifth one, all of Tamriel would be conquered by the Thalmor. Game over.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Maybe they didn't try or maybe they didn't have enough time. Your whole "They needed a reason to keep the Empire in the fifth game" makes no sense. Why wouldn't the Empire be in the fifth TES?

More like if the Empire wasn't in the Fifth one, all of Tamriel would be conquered by the Thalmor. Game over.

Not only that, but Bethesda would lose their entire plot line for Skyrim. I honestly just don't see "Devs needed a reason to keep the Empire" being applied to the Thalmor's actions at White-Gold Tower. Destroying Nirn isn't something Bethesda would do, that is the major reason the Thalmor won't win. Or perhaps they're not planning to end the world just yet.

There would also be too large a plot hole if the Empire was gone in TES V. How would they just destroy the one thing that has been in all the games, without showing it's downfall or decline?

The last time we saw the Empire, things were looking uncertain at the end of Oblivion, but hopeful. Prior to Skyrim, with the release of the novels, you learn the Empire is doing fairly well at the end.

Next game it may be gone, but if it was gone in Skyrim... It'd be too soon and probably not well explained without understanding the situation.
 

LegateFasendil

Imperial Legate
Oh yeah. On my way out the door here I almost forgot about something. That will never do. Well you don't want to leave anyone out you know?


Even better than the energizer bunny ~ I gots 99 problems but you still ain't won!!! XD​
Farewell friends.​

"Surrender while you still can." Hahaha ah-haa!​
LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Oh yeah. On my way out the door here I almost forgot about something. That will never do. Well you don't want to leave anyone out you know?


Even better than the energizer bunny ~ I gots 99 problems but you still ain't won!!! XD​
Farewell friends.​

"Surrender while you still can." Hahaha ah-haa!​
LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE

Shouldn't that woman Dragonborn be cooking Legate Fasendil meals instead of fighting with him? She should be arrested and taken to Cindah mine to be retaught on her place in the packing order. She should become Fasendil maid when she gets discharged from prison.

 

Rimfaxe96

Well-Known Member
Oh my god this thread is finally dead! Bring out the bagpipes!

I actually got another trick up my sleeve to keep this thread going, but you know, for now I'll just sit here with a glass of wine, and wait for other Imperial sympathizers to continue the show.
 

Vatonage

Joyeuse et Glorieuse
I actually got another trick up my sleeve to keep this thread going, but you know, for now I'll just sit here with a glass of wine, and wait for other Imperial sympathizers to continue the show.
Oh golly, I can't wait to see what ideas the Imperials and Stormcloaks will whip up in round...2? 3? 201?

Maybe the Stormcloaks will make a comeback?

Maybe the Imperials will keep the lead?

Maybe they'll stop arguing and play Skyrim?

Who knows? I'm entertained just by observing it.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
I actually got another trick up my sleeve to keep this thread going, but you know, for now I'll just sit here with a glass of wine, and wait for other Imperial sympathizers to continue the show.
Oh golly, I can't wait to see what ideas the Imperials and Stormcloaks will whip up in round...2? 3? 201?

Maybe the Stormcloaks will make a comeback?

Maybe the Imperials will keep the lead?

Maybe they'll stop arguing and play Skyrim?

Who knows? I'm entertained just by observing it.

More like 2001.
 

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