Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
I do not care about racism. I do not like Ulfric because of pure logistics. IF the empire were to lose the Civil War, it makes it extremely hard for them to win the next great war, unless they hand the entire empire over to the nords, just to get the metal for weapons and armor.

I think they'd likely just assist the Nords in Skyrim sort of like an Ebonheart Pact deal.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
I do not care about racism. I do not like Ulfric because of pure logistics. IF the empire were to lose the Civil War, it makes it extremely hard for them to win the next great war, unless they hand the entire empire over to the nords, just to get the metal for weapons and armor.

That's actually a pretty good idea. The current system doesn't seem to be working out quite right considering the situations that they're in.

Ulfric did say "The Empire I remember never surrendered." The man never use to be anti Empire.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
I do not care about racism. I do not like Ulfric because of pure logistics. IF the empire were to lose the Civil War, it makes it extremely hard for them to win the next great war, unless they hand the entire empire over to the nords, just to get the metal for weapons and armor.

I think they'd likely just assist the Nords in Skyrim sort of like an Ebonheart Pact deal.

I doubt it, it would seem like Ulfric does not want to even talk to the Empire unless it costs the Empire a ton.
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
I doubt it, it would seem like Ulfric does not want to even talk to the Empire unless it costs the Empire a ton.

Surely, if the Empire was fighting the Dominion head on, Ulfric would, at least, indirectly lend support.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
I doubt it, it would seem like Ulfric does not want to even talk to the Empire unless it costs the Empire a ton.

Surely, if the Empire was fighting the Dominion head on, Ulfric would, at least, indirectly lend support.

It logistically would make no sense for Ulfric to aid the Empire that "he" forced out (it was actually the blood of the men that HE sacrificed as meat shields and meat blades, just like Tullius did).
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
I doubt it, it would seem like Ulfric does not want to even talk to the Empire unless it costs the Empire a ton.

Surely, if the Empire was fighting the Dominion head on, Ulfric would, at least, indirectly lend support.

It logistically would make no sense for Ulfric to aid the Empire that "he" forced out (it was actually the blood of the men that HE sacrificed as meat shields and meat blades, just like Tullius did).

There are Stormcloaks who joined purely because they wanted to fight the Thalmor. I'm quite sure they wouldn't give a lesser plops if he decide to "help" the Empire that is finally taking the fight to the Thalmor.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
It logistically would make no sense for Ulfric to aid the Empire that "he" forced out (it was actually the blood of the men that HE sacrificed as meat shields and meat blades, just like Tullius did).

You're voicing your opinion again that means jack. Ulfric didn't sacrificed anyone. What are you talking about? :rolleyes:

There are Stormcloaks who joined purely because they wanted to fight the Thalmor. I'm quite sure they wouldn't give a lesser pl*** if he decide to "help" the Empire that is finally taking the fight to the Thalmor.

Yup. On the road, or in a Stormcloak camp, you'll hear the dialogue that takes place. The Stormcloak Soldier would ask another Soldier why he joined the Stormcloaks, and the response was that he didn't want no snotty elf telling him what gods he can and cannot worship.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
It logistically would make no sense for Ulfric to aid the Empire that "he" forced out (it was actually the blood of the men that HE sacrificed as meat shields and meat blades, just like Tullius did).

You're voicing your opinion again that means jack. Ulfric didn't sacrificed anyone. What are you talking about? :rolleyes:

The soldiers that fight in the war die for Ulfric, that is sacrifice, not compassionate. Sacrifice is the same on both sides of the civil war, no matter how it is sliced, soldiers are sacrificed for their cause as soldiers fight and die. This is logic.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Ulfric Stormcloak: The Aldmeri Dominion may have defeated the Empire, but it has not defeated Skyrim!

Ulfric didn't create the Stormcloaks to solely fight against the Empire. He is creating an army to take the fight to the Thalmor.

Galmar: "I'll die before elves dictate the fates of men. Are we not one in this?"

If Ysgramor and his 500 companions was able to defeat the elves, and claiming Skyrim as their new home why can't history repeat itself? Ulfric is quite determine to become another Ysgramor. I say let him and his men prove themselves in battle.

If the Empire was smart enough and had patience they could very well retake back Skyrim after giving it to Ulfric. With Ulfric and his Stormcloak army gone fighting the Thalmor the Empire enter Skyrim's boarder and retake back the provinces.

"I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims." ―Queen Ayrenn, Your Queen Commands
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
It logistically would make no sense for Ulfric to aid the Empire that "he" forced out (it was actually the blood of the men that HE sacrificed as meat shields and meat blades, just like Tullius did).

You're voicing your opinion again that means jack. Ulfric didn't sacrificed anyone. What are you talking about? :rolleyes:

The soldiers that fight in the war die for Ulfric, that is sacrifice, not compassionate. Sacrifice is the same on both sides of the civil war, no matter how it is sliced, soldiers are sacrificed for their cause as soldiers fight and die. This is logic.

But its not considered Ulfric Sacrificing them, Theyre sacrificing themselves. Ulfric never "sacrificed" anyone.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
It logistically would make no sense for Ulfric to aid the Empire that "he" forced out (it was actually the blood of the men that HE sacrificed as meat shields and meat blades, just like Tullius did).

You're voicing your opinion again that means jack. Ulfric didn't sacrificed anyone. What are you talking about? :rolleyes:

The soldiers that fight in the war die for Ulfric, that is sacrifice, not compassionate. Sacrifice is the same on both sides of the civil war, no matter how it is sliced, soldiers are sacrificed for their cause as soldiers fight and die. This is logic.

The only sacrifice I see are a bunch of men who are willing to give up their lives to retake back their religion and heritage. That's compassionate. They're willing to die so that others can benefit from their actions.... to openly worship talos again.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
You're voicing your opinion again that means jack. Ulfric didn't sacrificed anyone. What are you talking about? :rolleyes:

The soldiers that fight in the war die for Ulfric, that is sacrifice, not compassionate. Sacrifice is the same on both sides of the civil war, no matter how it is sliced, soldiers are sacrificed for their cause as soldiers fight and die. This is logic.

But its not considered Ulfric Sacrificing them, Theyre sacrificing themselves. Ulfric never "sacrificed" anyone.
Ulfric makes the tactical choices. His tactics, their sacrifices are on him, just like the Empire's soldiers deaths. They are the same thing, just with different skins.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
You're voicing your opinion again that means jack. Ulfric didn't sacrificed anyone. What are you talking about? :rolleyes:

The soldiers that fight in the war die for Ulfric, that is sacrifice, not compassionate. Sacrifice is the same on both sides of the civil war, no matter how it is sliced, soldiers are sacrificed for their cause as soldiers fight and die. This is logic.

The only sacrifice I see are a bunch of men who are willing to give up their lives to retake back their religion and heritage. That's compassionate. They're willing to die so that others can benefit from their actions.... to openly worship talos again.

Same thing for the Empire, so who is sacrificing their men? I say both.
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
The soldiers that fight in the war die for Ulfric, that is sacrifice, not compassionate. Sacrifice is the same on both sides of the civil war, no matter how it is sliced, soldiers are sacrificed for their cause as soldiers fight and die. This is logic.

But its not considered Ulfric Sacrificing them, Theyre sacrificing themselves. Ulfric never "sacrificed" anyone.
Ulfric makes the tactical choices. His tactics, their sacrifices are on him, just like the Empire's soldiers deaths. They are the same thing, just with different skins.

Not exactly, these men made their own sacrifices. They are the ones who sacrifice themselves not Ulfric. Ulfric only commands them he doesn't dictate how, when, or where they die.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Last time.... He DID weasel himself out of being killed. What part don't you understand? He finally revealed information to the Sormcloaks to prevent Ulfric and Galmar from killing him. He even suggested surrendering.

He didn't. What part of that don't you understand? He brought up the Thalmor as a warning, that they're the enemy.

He's a Military General who was defeated when he mentions surrendering, he isn't a Nord and the question of surrender had to be asked. Go look into your favorite source, where it clearly states "A hopeless question that must be asked" why must it be asked? Because he as the Military General must at least try secure terms for his men.

Oh really? Why did he wait this long to warn the Stormcloaks that the Thalmor are behind it all? and I call bullpl***. He was too trying to save his own skin. If he wasn't then he wouldn't had delayed such valuable information that could of very well end the civil war, peacefully.

Because Ulfric and Galmar are going to listen? You call bullplops? No. This entire argument of yours is bullplops. Information that could end the war peacefully? Come off it, you know damn well Ulfric and his supporters would not back down.

Go listen to all their supporters, they're anti-Empire. You think they're going to believe Tullius?

Come on Drunkenmage. You can't be serious, are you? Do you even read my post or do you read a short portion of it? Because I've been sending out links to the data backing up my claim for a long time now. It seems as you can't seem to accept the facts that seems to disagree with you. Why is that? I firmly believe that we both acknowledge that the information taken from http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr is considered a valid and legitimate source of information.

Throwing up dialogue and expecting it to magically back you up because it is from those links isn't what makes it valid. You don't have anything except your own strange argument, where somehow the Empire is bad because Ulfric is too thick to know he's being used.

When you throw up the dialogue, read the notes they sometimes have. You have nothing backing up your claims, and there isn't any facts being presented. You tried to use 'lucid and forceful' against Tullius, without understanding what it even meant.

Sounds exactly what you do since you clearly reject any valid information that disagrees with you.

I never reject valid information, I reject biased observation and stupid arguments.

So what? If you saw a big black dragon wouldn't you want to hide too? Especially being surrounded by people who wants to cut off your head? What point are you trying to pull out here by pointing out that Ulfric was hiding in the tower?

That Tullius who apparently doesn't care about others, who only thinks for himself is out there standing his ground trying to get people to safety. His own men to safety before him.

While Ulfric, who apparently cares about the people, who is so compassionate. Actually hides in a tower and shuts the door on the civilians outside, instead of I don't know at least trying to get a few people to safety.


The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That is what boils it down to. I find it hard to believe that a man would ignore the fact that his enemy has information that could very well change the track of the civil war.

Except he does ignore the information. When Tullius brings up your so called revelation that could change everything, Ulfric ignores it. In fact they just continue to toy with Tullius, playing on his words.

The fact that the true enemy was behind it would do a complete 180.

Why doesn't he then Raijin? Why does he execute Tullius, order other Legionnaires to be hunted down after getting this information that would make him do a 180.

I find it hard to believe that Ulfric would give the Thalmor such gratification despite hating the Empire.

He doesn't care. He believes he's acting for himself, the Thalmor messed him up good.

Skald is a douche bag. Not sure why you would bring him up..

Maybe because Skald is Ulfric's only other port, and is actually the main supply of soldiers for the rebellion. A douche, but a needed douche.

Are you joking me, are you? The Stormcloaks does not have more wealth than Maven, and Maven more likely have a close business friends with the majority of nobles in Skyrim . Sure the Dark brotherhood have no loyalty... for as long as someone keeps filling their pockets full of coin.

I didn't say the Stormcloaks are wealthy, I said the Silver-Bloods. The Silver-Bloods control the Treasury House, that is the Bank. They own silver, they control much of the property in the Reach. They own the largest silver mine in all of Skyrim.

Silver is traded all over Tamriel. Mead, is something that Nords drink. Black-Briar Mead apparently tastes like piss and the only reason it sells is because Maven forces it onto people. Maven's wealth comes from mead, the Silver-Bloods are the bank in Skyrim.

Bank = Money, a lot of money.

Both Maven and the Silver-Bloods extort businesses, but since Maven doesn't own the largest mine in Skyrim, she doesn't come close to that wealth.

Now do you get it, my Padawan learner?
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Same thing for the Empire, so who is sacrificing their men? I say both.

The Empire isn't fighting to regain back religious freedom. Tullius acknowledges that the Thalmor was behind this, and still was willing to sacrifice his men for this silly Civil war that does nothing but to give points to the Thalmor.

The reasons are not important. The tactics are the SAME THING. Go out, take a fort, leaders stay in the capital until the end to steal the player's glory. No one is going to remember The Dragonborn in the future, just the leader of the side who won the war. and Ulfric was willing to sacrifice HIS men for the silly war.
 

Dradin

Tribunal Temple Acolyte
Ulfric Stormcloak: The Aldmeri Dominion may have defeated the Empire, but it has not defeated Skyrim!

Ulfric didn't create the Stormcloaks to solely fight against the Empire. He is creating an army to take the fight to the Thalmor.

Galmar: "I'll die before elves dictate the fates of men. Are we not one in this?"

If Ysgramor and his 500 companions was able to defeat the elves, and claiming Skyrim as their new home why can't history repeat itself? Ulfric is quite determine to become another Ysgramor. I say let him and his men prove themselves in battle.

If the Empire was smart enough and had patience they could very well retake back Skyrim after giving it to Ulfric. With Ulfric and his Stormcloak army gone fighting the Thalmor the Empire enter Skyrim's boarder and retake back the provinces.

"I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims." ―Queen Ayrenn, Your Queen Commands
I sat down and did some reevaluation. The Empire won the war for who I believe is ultimately right. Time to dive back into this thread.

Part of this is unwarranted hatred. I'm truth the Nords have done many more atrocities in history to the Elves than the Elves had done to the Nords. Although Early Mer were slave keepers and sometimes a group of Daedra worshipers, Ysgramor was a genocidal fool who though the near extinction of a race was a handy punishment for the fear provoked attack on Sarathal.

Ulfric also never created, nor will he create an army anytime soon, to fight the Thalmor. Ulfric only created the army to fight for Ulfric. Three things easily point in this directiom.

1) The Markarth Incident. By using his milita he rallied to slaughter innocent Reach men (and Nords) on the street and push his agenda on Jarl Igmund for such service, and probably sealing connections with the Silver-Bloods simultaneously.

2) The Challenge Against Torygg. No one was expecting the challenge, except Ulfric and his followers. Granted it technically is Nordic custom, he certainly picks and chooses what actual customs one should follow. Because who needs the moot?

3) Ulfric is ultimately as ignorant of Nordic culture as Tullius appears to be at the start of the game. Ulfric not only picks witch customs he feels are to be followed, he forgets the most imbedded Nordic tradition of all; the Empire.

The Empire was founded on Nordic principles, and the idea of Talos worship directly stems from worship of Shor. Both tend to parallel.

The Nords have aways been with the Empire, not just during the sweet spots. In the mass wave of confusion and doubt, Ulfric is capitalizing on the uncertainty brought upon by the Thalmor to further his standing.
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
So common folk believe. Why didn't they do it during the Great War, or the Civil War or during the Oblivion Crisis?
Because the Greybeards weren't asked and it didn't happen in Skyrim leaving no need for it. This is not some myth, Ysmir Wulfarth Fought alongside Jorunn the Skald-King against Dir-Kamal and drove them into the sea.

Possibly. I'm not certain, but I wouldn't put it past them.
Well, I'm glad the Empire has a sensible way of doing things.

Raids on forts, and established forces. Nords tend to fight open battles, entire armies smashing into each other.
We're quite good at that too.

I wouldn't even put it past Hammerfell invading Skyrim during their weakened state and taking some land from the Nords. That is the love between Hammerfell and Skyrim.
Pity they share such Cultural similarities. The Hatred of magic, a culture of Warriors, Even sharing some similarities in their Pantheon

The Green pact applies to Wood Elves. They're not allowed to harm the forests, it is unclear if that applies to outsiders.
It's quite clear that it does apply to outsiders, actually. The only reason the Wood Elves are allowing this is because this Fariel said that this was the best way to keep people from destroying all of Valenwood. So they Left it alone and allowed their allies to do whatever it is they're doing. If you the, foreign invaders, marched into Valenwood and attacked the Thalmor head on there would be widespread damage to the forest. Fireballs being cast, endless amounts of violence, It won't suit the Bosmer well, and they will use the Wild Hunt in times of desperation.

The current relationship is unknown, the Khajiit caravan leader in Skyrim hates the Thalmor. Some probably like them, some hate them.
meh, its a useless argument to be having in this thread

I believe the term is called 'Pincer Movement' which is a military tactic, and has been used in nearly every war. Such a crap tactic that it is taught even today to Military Officers.

The point of such a tactic is isolating and surrounding the enemy.
That would be all well and good if he made sure that no unsuspecting armies would attack him from the west.

Also if you had any knowledge of Roman history, you'd know the Legions weren't always full. The book 'The Great War' mentions the Military weakness of the Empire, do you honestly believe they had full Legions? Some perhaps, but certainly not all.
Even if these legions were not full there was still MASSIVE loss of life in this one battle.

Battlemage Welloc

Archmage Geirmund

Archmage Shalidor

The Dragon Priests

All the Archmages in Sovngarde
Well then I stand corrected, but tell me how many great modern Nord Mages still stand?

Games, perhaps.
Yes, I was under the impression that's what we were arguing about.

Not anymore, in past games they did. But you're trying to use game stats to back up your argument. Funny how they tend to change every game, they dumb down the traits. Look at Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim, all the races. What is your theory on the changes? Is it forced evolution? Too much incest?
Must be, but in all seriousness they don't really change the basic things that all these races are good at. You still have Nords who make good warriors as well as Orcs and Redguards who do the same, and you still have Altmer who excel at all things Arcane.

In TESO, probably a lot.
Because people wan't to break stereotypes

Is it? Can you show me where all of this happens in lore? In the various books, journals and such. The games keep changing the stats, so next game you may have an even smaller resist frost on Nords or like the recent change from Oblivion, Nords being skilled in different skill trees. They were heavy armor last game.
But Nords have been Resist Frost every single game, It may not be the same numbers all the time but it is still lore that they are fierce warriors who have grown a natural immunity to cold and frost based magical attacks.

You know what happened, who it happened to, and how it happened. I don't need to explain it.

Do you know where Imperials go? Or Altmer? You've fought a war against the Legion, killed many Imperials, you've killed many Thalmor. Yet... Can you answer to me where they go when they die?
I believe Altmer get recycled in endless cycles of reincarnation, as for Imperials probably just some separate plane of Aetherius or they get cycled into the Dreamsleave, specifically I don't knoq, Although I'm no Imperial General who's supposed to know these things. Side note, he might want to learn these things if he intends to spend the rest of his days there

Because hidden magical things just show themselves. It would probably take some time to figure out how to destroy it. Or maybe they need to deactivate the last tower first.

I honestly don't know, the thing doesn't exactly come with a "How to" instruction book. There isn't a "Don't press this button or world ends".
Or because the Devs needed a convenient way to keep the Empire in the 5th game, essentially making a Deus Ex Machina

You don't even know what Talos is.
Talos the god is the oversoul of Tiber Septim, Ysmir Wulfarth, and Zurin Arctus that took the place of Shezarr in the Imperial Pantheon

I never called Ulfric a Legate? So where are you even getting that. Legions from Skyrim were being sent to Cyrodiil throughout the war. Not just when Jonna arrived.
I think we're both thoroughly confused on this particular part off the argument.

He probably did know, the point of soldiers is to fight. Nords saw battle, some died and went to Sovngarde. What is your point? Did you think there would be no resistance from the Aldmeri when Titus II was trying to cut off the main army and surround them?
The point of having soldiers fight is to obtain your goal in war. This was an unexpected attack that made it significantly harder for the Nord Legions to achieve their goal and surround the enemy because Titus Mede II was being careless and needed the Imperial City back.

They can have a ballista bolt to the face.
And now you're moving heavy machinery into Valenwood as well, Things aren't looking too good for you are they?

They go in packs? Source? Oh wait, never mind.
They're solitary?

People break tree branches and step on plants all the time in Valenwood.
Are these people bound to a Pact that says they specifically can't?

Yeah, but do they all move together? Are they known to attack armies?
I'm sure some of them do. And From what most animal's do while they're hunting a larger group is much easier to pick off due to the fact that there are so many vctims, so yes they probably do or they would if more invading armies marched into Valenwood.

Where has this been said? No where, which is my point. If these creatures attack military forces, why is it not documented? Not even in TESO, unless you can correct me.
Why wouldn't they, animal's attack large forces all the time, these huge lumbering creatures surely aren't afraid of you tiny Imperial Soldiers.

Strength in numbers.
Have fun dying. I'm sure that strength in numbers helped out Borgas' army

Except they can't turn back. It requires a ritual, whcih they haven't used in god knows how long. Not even during the Alliance Wars.
I believe Y'ffre gave them that ability. Also in the Alliance Wars massive army's aren't seen marching into Valenwood from the pact or the Daggerfall Covenant. Possibly because they know not to.

Because I'm biased obviously. When I'm not quoting lore text, I have that Imperial favored agenda. Perhaps the signature wasn't a good enough hint?
I obviously understand, my point is how will it work? How do you fare any larger of a chance against the Dominion then we do, when you are putting yourself in the same situation.

It's all doom and gloom with you.
Yes, I am great fun at parties

Because it isn't mentioned. You can't just have an army of enchanted warriors without it telling you so. Ysgramor's 500 had powerful enchantments. But it doesn't make every Nordic army have it.
Of course they had the great Azhidal, as their enchanter.

They can use it, but they do it rarely.
That doesn't mean they won't. History is repeating itself right now. By the god's you have to listen: YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH!!! LISTEN TO ME YOU STUBBORN IMPERIAL BASTARD!!!!

You lot didn't even know what a Wild Hunt was several debates ago, are you now experts?
I was quite aware of what a Wild Hunt was Drunken, I can't day the same for everybody else, I also never said I was an expert.

It's a good thing Necromancy is legal, and we have many Necromancers in the Empire
I'm sure those mindless Imperial zombie soldiers will make great troops in your impending battle!
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Because the Greybeards weren't asked and it didn't happen in Skyrim leaving no need for it. This is not some myth, Ysmir Wulfarth Fought alongside Jorunn the Skald-King against Dir-Kamal and drove them into the sea.

The Greybeards can't be asked, no one is allowed into their temple unless summoned. Besides if I remember correctly, they can't use him anymore because of Talos.

Pity they share such Cultural similarities. The Hatred of magic, a culture of Warriors, Even sharing some similarities in their Pantheon

Because no one has any love for Skyrim.

"Regardless. It appears Skyrim must stand alone. Again." - Ulfric Stormcloak

No one is coming to Ulfric's aid against the Empire. Hammerfell, Morrowind and High Rock all have very good reasons to just invade Skyrim while they're weak.

It's quite clear that it does apply to outsiders, actually. The only reason the Wood Elves are allowing this is because this Fariel said that this was the best way to keep people from destroying all of Valenwood. So they Left it alone and allowed their allies to do whatever it is they're doing. If you the, foreign invaders, marched into Valenwood and attacked the Thalmor head on there would be widespread damage to the forest. Fireballs being cast, endless amounts of violence, It won't suit the Bosmer well, and they will use the Wild Hunt in times of desperation.

Why didn't they use it during the Tiber Wars, when the Imperial Empire was expanding and there were plenty of violence on the edges of Valenwood.

The Empire is attacking the Aldmeri Dominion, now the Bosmer loyal to the Thalmor won't use it. Because they would kill them too. The Bosmer also have very good reasons to hate the Thalmor, so why would they use it when they can be liberated?


That would be all well and good if he made sure that no unsuspecting armies would attack him from the west.

This again, what unsuspecting armies? Show me where it says the Aldmeri did a surprise attack on the Nords? You keep saying that, trying to discredit Titus II's tactics. But now that you've learned the tactics are good, you try to make out the Legions were clueless. Are the Nords unable to put patrols out ahead of the marching main force?

Even if these legions were not full there was still MASSIVE loss of life in this one battle.

Obviously, read history. What large medieval battles aren't filled with a huge loss of life?

Well then I stand corrected, but tell me how many great modern Nord Mages still stand?

As of Skyrim few. This is recent behavior for the Nords, from the last two hundred years.

Yes, I was under the impression that's what we were arguing about.

Games are one thing. The life of Tamriel another.

Must be, but in all seriousness they don't really change the basic things that all these races are good at. You still have Nords who make good warriors as well as Orcs and Redguards who do the same, and you still have Altmer who excel at all things Arcane.

In the games they are. The races you choose to play as are all action driven, you do the main quest, you clear forts, caves and get into battles. The player hero aside, look at Tamriel as a living world. The books and such all go into this, the NPCs etc.

You're using the player hero as the standard for everyone else. In lore, and the 'living world' aspect of TES. It isn't the same. Being a Nord doesn't make you a better warrior, they all have to train. They're not born with it. Listening to conversations, the Companions is a good one. They talk about the need for training.
You can't just pick up a sword or bow and be skilled with it.

Because people wan't to break stereotypes

I was talking about NPCs.

But Nords have been Resist Frost every single game, It may not be the same numbers all the time but it is still lore that they are fierce warriors who have grown a natural immunity to cold and frost based magical attacks.

They do, that is an inborn trait. But skill with weapons isn't something anyone is born with, they all have to learn.

You know what happened, who it happened to, and how it happened. I don't need to explain it.

Give me an instance besides Borgas.

I believe Altmer get recycled in endless cycles of reincarnation, as for Imperials probably just some separate plane of Aetherius or they get cycled into the Dreamsleave, specifically I don't knoq, Although I'm no Imperial General who's supposed to know these things. Side note, he might want to learn these things if he intends to spend the rest of his days there

Everyone gets recycled at one point. You keep saying he's supposed to know this, why is he supposed to know this? He's a military general with a job to crush the rebellion, and he almost did. He was actually going to take Ulfric's head back to Cyrodiil with him.

He has Rikke to aid him in the Nordic aspect of things. It isn't like he's just ignoring it and doing his own thing, he listens to Rikke.

Side note, he does learn these things during his time in Skyrim. So what is your problem? It isn't like he just refuses to listen and just yaps on not caring.

"Can't say I'll ever get used to the damn cold, or understand these Nords... but I've come to respect them. The harshness of Skyrim has a way of carving a man down to his true self." - General Tullius

Or because the Devs needed a convenient way to keep the Empire in the 5th game, essentially making a Deus Ex Machina

How little you know about TES...

Talos the god is the oversoul of Tiber Septim, Ysmir Wulfarth, and Zurin Arctus that took the place of Shezarr in the Imperial Pantheon

Good, except you left out the part that the Empire removing Talos is just returning the favor that he did. Talos abandoned the Empire over two hundred years ago.

I find it cute the Stormcloaks get so worked up over the Imperial religion. Last game they were against it. They're so Imperialized that it is amusing when Stormcloaks in this thread go on about true Nords at times.

The Stormcloaks can keep Talos, he abandoned the Nords long before Imperials signed the White-Gold Concordat.

The point of having soldiers fight is to obtain your goal in war. This was an unexpected attack that made it significantly harder for the Nord Legions to achieve their goal and surround the enemy because Titus Mede II was being careless and needed the Imperial City back.

Source that it was unsuspected? Or are you just grasping for straws here?

Here is what the Nords had to say: My men and I, Nords of Skyrim all, will soon join with the Emperor's legions to attack the Imperial City. The Aldmeri are entrenched within and our losses will be severe. It is a desperate gambit, for if we do not reclaim the city, we will lose the war.

Seems like they were aware of what was at stake.

And now you're moving heavy machinery into Valenwood as well, Things aren't looking too good for you are they?

They're looking great.

They're solitary?

No idea, but you're assuming they're not.

I'm sure some of them do. And From what most animal's do while they're hunting a larger group is much easier to pick off due to the fact that there are so many vctims, so yes they probably do or they would if more invading armies marched into Valenwood.

National Geographic right here, aye? Animal expert too. Funny, I was certain predatory animals who hunted large groups picked off the weakest, the old or the young.

Why wouldn't they, animal's attack large forces all the time, these huge lumbering creatures surely aren't afraid of you tiny Imperial Soldiers.

Not head on they don't. Show me a single source of large numbers of soldiers being attacked by these creatures. Every province has dangerous creatures.

Have fun dying. I'm sure that strength in numbers helped out Borgas' army

Did Borgas have an army with him? He was killed because he was trying to get Cyrodiil to have a joint war with the Camoran Dynasty. Borgas wanted to attack the Bosmer themselves.

I believe Y'ffre gave them that ability. Also in the Alliance Wars massive army's aren't seen marching into Valenwood from the pact or the Daggerfall Covenant. Possibly because they know not to.

Seriously? Armies avoid Valenwood in that little world of citation needed.

I obviously understand, my point is how will it work? How do you fare any larger of a chance against the Dominion then we do, when you are putting yourself in the same situation.

Because the Empire has more soldiers, more resources, more assets.

Stormcloaks are a basic militia who can't even reach the Aldmeri Dominion. After the war each Jarl gets his/her own army, and I personally don't like the idea of an General Skald.

Of course they had the great Azhidal, as their enchanter.

Yes the Companions did. That played a major factor in the war against elves, also because it lasted till through the reign of 13 Kings.

That doesn't mean they won't. History is repeating itself right now. By the god's you have to listen: YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH!!! LISTEN TO ME YOU STUBBORN IMPERIAL BASTARD!!!!

You can either invade the Aldmeri Dominion with the Empire or invade them with the Stormcloaks. Personally I prefer the side who can afford matching armor.

I'm sure those mindless Imperial zombie soldiers will make great troops in your impending battle!

There are enough mindless followers in the Stormcloaks for the both of us.
 

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