Are the Companions really better?

LotusEater · Jul 5, 2014

No group/society that is shrouded in secrecy is better than any other unless you believe the end justifies the means which I surely don't. Once a group starts hiding it's purpose and goals from the public, they may enjoy a certain level of privacy, but they also leave themselves open to be infiltrated by other secret groups more easily. Just look at all the secret societies throughout ancient history up till present day, they are all corrupt in one way or another and usually in multiple ways. Secret societies are too easily compartmentalized and then influenced/blackmailed to ever be fully trusted.

sticky runes · Jul 6, 2014

I would have thought the whole Circle being Werewolves secret would have been out after a bunch of werewolf hunters were seen attacking the Companions' headquarters and killing their leader.

Hildolfr · Jul 6, 2014

sticky runes said:
I would have thought the whole Circle being Werewolves secret would have been out after a bunch of werewolf hunters were seen attacking the Companions' headquarters and killing their leader.

I think the Silver Hand are like... behind-closed-doors nefarious villains. I don't think the average person knows of their existence. Hell, I imagine unless you're specifically involved in werewolf activities, you may not know them. And if you do know of them, perhaps you might not know what they're all about unless you're trying to join them or something. You have to think, there seems to be a lot of speculation and rumors about stuff that seems pretty obvious in Skyrim. Most people seem pretty ignorant to things outside their sphere of influence.

Or you're right and there is a fairly big plot hole there.

Lucid · Jul 7, 2014

I sounded off on the Companions (and every other group) in a Heroes vs. Villains thread a few weeks ago:

"Companions: Interesting twist that the "good guys" here would be regarded as monsters if the truth was known. They also beat people up for money and kill escaped prisoners without caring for details about the crime. Their adversaries are the Silverhand and the Glenmoril Witches, and I'm certainly not going to throw my lot with Krev the Skinner. I vote for the hero here, as long as we acknowledge that they only loosely fit the definition."

I also feel like more Companions are jerks to the Dragonborn than I see from the other guilds. Even death doesn't prevent them from hanging around Jorrvaskr to insult me (cough*Skjor*cough). I do love the Companions, but I wouldn't say they're "Better".

DrunkenMage · Jul 8, 2014

The Companions never claim to be good, they've had good times and their share of evil times. It all generally depends on the Harbinger and the Circle.

As Kodlak puts it: "The difference between a noble band of warriors and a ragged bunch of assassins is as thin as a blade's edge."

Daelon DuLac · Jul 8, 2014

DrunkenMage said:
The Companions never claim to be good, they've had good times and their share of evil times. It all generally depends on the Harbinger and the Circle.

As Kodlak puts it: "The difference between a noble band of warriors and a ragged bunch of assassins is as thin as a blade's edge."

You are right. They do have quite a history (after all 4000 years is a long time!). I wish there was more of it though.

Daelon DuLac · Jul 8, 2014

sticky runes said:
W'rkncacnter said:

In 650 hours I never once come across a werewolf in the wilds outside of the Companion's quests. I've run across werebears a total of two times.

Click to expand...

I get werebears quite a lot in the North West part of Solstheim, but I only fought one werewolf that wasn't in a Silverhand hideout or part of any quests, it was just some random dude wandering around and when I approached him he transformed and attacked me. It happened somewhere near Markarth.

Odd. I run in to them all the time (except on Solstheim where only the one group seems to exist???). Perhaps it's because I'm over level 100 now? This is the first build I've gone that high on and, while I remember running in to a few on other builds, this is the first time I run in to them regularly. Usually they're in pairs as well.

Irishman · Jul 10, 2014

In my opinion, being 'good' in Skyrim and being 'good' in real life are two very different things. For instance; a group of bandits attack a town. The guards will kill those bandits without a second thought unless the bandits surrender their weapons. In real life (Australia anyway), if a bunch of thugs came in to terrorize a town, the police would ALWAYS try to end it peacefully first. They would give them chances to surrender and even if the thugs where violent, a capture is generally more sought after than a death or harmful incapacitation.

My advice for playing a good character in Skyrim? Stop trying to be good by our standard, and start being good by Skyrim's standard

LuChao · Jul 10, 2014

raido KASAI said:
Not that the Companions are morally/ethically ideal (who is for that matter?) but there are more of their quest lines that are designed to help than to do harm. The animal exterminations are helpful to common folk, the rescue missions where someone has been kidnapped and your duty is to save them and return them home safely helps that person and their family. Cleaning out bandit camps or eliminating a dangerous escaped criminal, both are helpful to society at large. And Ria even killed a bear today so what more do you want?

As far as them being werewolves, at the largest percentage of werewolves to the whole group, which is when you are a member of the Circle and neither of the 2 deaths in the Circle have occurred, half the members in Jorrvaskr are werewolves so there is never a majority. Of the ones that are, only 2 are really keen on the ability and don't consider it a curse and right after you become one, one of those two dies immediately. Of the others, two have completely given up transformation (Vilkas and Kodlak) and a third (Farkas) pretty much has as well except for the time you get trapped and he gets jumped. It's not like you have 10 out of 10 possible members who just go on a wild killing spree in full-on beast-mode every night after dinner.

As far as the Silver Hand / Companions conflict, I won't come out and say there is nothing wrong with the cycle of death and retaliation but neither side is innocent in the matter. The SH want the Companions dead because they want all werewolves dead and they assume that all Companions are werewolves and thus they want them all dead. Certain members of the Companions want members of the SH dead because the SH want them all dead so the best action is to kill before you are killed. I think there was a book about that.

Are the Companions all boy scouts and girl scouts? Of course not. Are they better than the DB or TG you encounter in Skyrim, I'd argue yes. None of the Companions betray their own family in their quest line. There is a basic level of honor and moral clarity in that. The other two groups can't say as much as betrayal of their "allies" is their whole quest line.

Of course no faction is as guilty of committing mass atrocities quite like those damn bards.

the book ur thinking of is Killing before your killed

Chadonraz · Jul 11, 2014

Yes, they are. TG and especially DB are just lowly criminal scum. -.-
As for DG (well, the Companions, too)... vampires are undead. Killing them is no worse than clearing out a Nordic ruin.

If you're against killing wolves/sabre cats/other wild beasts that have invaded someone's home, do you feel the same way about real life pest control? Rats, cockroaches etc. are live creatures, too. Not to mention they're real, unlike the creatures of Skyrim. Not to mention a sabre cat is for more dangerous than cockroaches.

The Silver Hand are considered no more than bandits, since guards attack them on sight. I've seen that many times. (No, I don't know how the SH that eventually invade Whiterun manage it.)

That is all I'm going to say on this topic. I only posted here in the first place because for whatever reason this was chosen as the "Thread of the Day" on these forums.

PS. I asked Farkas where the honour was in brwaling, and he gave a very well reasoned answer (that'd been given to him by Kodlak when he'd asked the same question). Now, it was obviously mod-added content, but I see no reason why I couldn't be canon.

PPS. Now I really am done with this thread/topic. :Dovahkiin:

W'rkncacnter · Jul 14, 2014

Here's a thought. . .
The Silver Hand know that the Companions are werewolves despite its supposed secrecy. Perhaps the main issue the Silver Hand have with the guards is their "looking the other way" with regard to the Companion's affliction? Because, seriously, wouldn't your first course of action as werewolf hunters be to inform either the Jarl or the guards of the danger living in their midst?

Perhaps the Silver Hand is the more righteous group in this case? After all, who prompts you to go on a rampage in the midst of the city the first time you transform?

sticky runes · Jul 14, 2014

W'rkncacnter said:
Here's a thought. . .
The Silver Hand know that the Companions are werewolves despite its supposed secrecy. Perhaps the main issue the Silver Hand have with the guards is their "looking the other way" with regard to the Companion's affliction? Because, seriously, wouldn't your first course of action as werewolf hunters be to inform either the Jarl or the guards of the danger living in their midst?

Perhaps the Silver Hand is the more righteous group in this case? After all, who prompts you to go on a rampage in the midst of the city the first time you transform?

Yeah but the Silverhand attack travelers. They've attacked me when I was walking past their hideouts, even when I didn't have any affiliation with the companions.
If they had given us a DLC that lets us join the Silverhand and take up the fight against werewolves, I would have probably preferred that to all the Dawnguard content.

Transforming in the middle of the city is a dumb idea, though. They should really load you outside of Whiterun (the other exit to the underforge, instead of just outside Jorvaskr) One time when I did the initiation, I got attacked by Idalof Battleborn and a bunch of Whiterun guards, and Eorlund killed them in my defense.

Irishman · Jul 15, 2014

lizardskyrim said:
Companions not really mercenaries . Well.. they want gold and ale and food

How are The Companions not mercenaries? A merc is a person who is paid to do a job that may be ethically wrong (ie. beating someone up for money or to prove a point) and/or a merc is someone who is paid to fight with or for someone....

The Thieves Guild are thieves
The College are a bunch of mages
The Dark Brotherhood are assassins
If The Companions aren't mercenaries, what are they?

My biggest issue with The Companions questline (which I have only ever completed once), is that you must become a werewolf to proceed with it. My Orc warrior, who has been known to complete a dirty task for some coin (as long as no innocents get hurt), would probably be interested in joining the group of decorated mercenaries, if he hadn't heard whispers that they are bunch of Weres (he is slightly bigoted

). He hunts vampires so he might have to strike a deal with the Silver Hand and go hunt some Kodlak!

ecozombie · Jul 15, 2014

I agree with you in one way but not in another. Yes, they are mercenaries. I agree with you there. As for being as bad as say The Dark Brotherhood however, I disagree. They try to do the most good they can. Just because they take coin for it doesn't necessarily make them completely evil - after all everyone has to get by and I'm sure Jorrvaskrs rent ain't cheap lol. But are they completely good? No. I would call them at best neutral or chaotic neutral. Maybe similar to the Thieves Guild though sure.

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Lewsean · Jul 16, 2014

I'd say so. They don't hide what they do, and the Jarl(s) support them. The blood of the beast is shared only to the worthy, they don't go spreading the disease because they know it will bring upon werewolves with no self control, and two in the circle dislike the beast blood full stop. I try to look at Skyrim related moral issues as if I'm in Skyrim, and in Skyrim they are accepted by everyone to be noble so they must be.

Are the Companions really better?

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