Dealing with or avoiding multiple attackers

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My character is a Dunmer assassin (archery, dual daggers, light armor, stealth and supported by crafting skills to enable self-sufficiency). Pretty much most encounters go the expected way but there are some (and certain specific ones) that end up more messy than I'd hope and, in some cases, with literally scrapping for my life downing health potions like an addict.

Pretty much any time there is a closed space and multiple heavy-armed/armoured dudes I get into such a mess - dungeons are usually OK but a couple of specific examples like the interior of Goldenglow estate always cause me problems. Sneaking past them in the first place doesn't seem to be possible, at least for me.

Has anyone got any good advice on how to avoid taking the brutes on head to head. I'd prefer not to use magic (at least yet) and my experience of using frenzy potions has not gone well so far (the maximum affected level doesn't keep up with the opponents) and invisibility potions just don't seem to work.
 

Irishman

Well-Endowed Member
You have crafting skills, so craft yourself a dagger or potion of paralysis. The enchantment loses power quickly but you need not paralyse everyone, just the heaviest armoured/strongest armed opponent than work on targeting the others while he is on the ground.

If not a paralysis poison, than why not a fear or calm potion?

(remember as a dual-wielder, Im 90% sure the poison applied goes only goes on the right hand)
 

raido KASAI

Ansei Master Badass

ColleenG

When in doubt, follow the fox.
I used ice form until I got Ash Shell and Ash Rune in Solstheim. Ash shell encases one enemy in a shell for 30 seconds. Ash rune explodes and encases everyone within range. While in the shell, they are protected, even from you, but also locked from attacking. So you ash shell one or many, then go after the rest. I also use ash shell when my follower gets in a fight with my dog. They awaken "reset" without any aggression.
 
Good suggestions so far. Ice Form definitely looks like something I should explore along with calm and fear (they may have the same problems as frenzy though) and, now that I think about it, poison of slow if I can get some distance away. When I finally travel to Solstheim I'll check out the ash ones as well.

I don't have a problem with sneak generally (and almost always have muffled boots and perks) but in some situations it seems impossible to sneak past which starts combat and the others come running. One of the ones I had a problem with was Goldenglow - the exterior ones are fodder for sniping but the ones inside the building had me trapped like a rat.
 

shadowkitty

Mistress of Shadows
Good suggestions so far. Ice Form definitely looks like something I should explore along with calm and fear (they may have the same problems as frenzy though) and, now that I think about it, poison of slow if I can get some distance away. When I finally travel to Solstheim I'll check out the ash ones as well.

I don't have a problem with sneak generally (and almost always have muffled boots and perks) but in some situations it seems impossible to sneak past which starts combat and the others come running. One of the ones I had a problem with was Goldenglow - the exterior ones are fodder for sniping but the ones inside the building had me trapped like a rat.

I just barge my way through Goldenglow Manor, slaughtering as I go...

seriously though.. you do know about the sewer entrance don't you? You don't even have to go through the outside of the estate except for a small part near the entrance to the manor. You can burn the bee hives from the other side of the fence as well. just jump up onto the rocks and use your flame spell. Then slide back into the water and go to the southwest side of the estate and the sewer is on the shore, under a walkway.

Once inside the estate you can level up your sneak skill with this:

  • In the basement of the main building, there is a place to the immediate right with two bookcases leaning on each other and two stools on top of one another where the Mercenaries in the immediate area cannot detect a sneaking character, even if they are standing right in front of them. This can be used to level up the Sneak Skill.
Just stand there in sneak mode, or walk on the spot, you will level up in sneak in no time. You can do this pretty much anywhere. Find an enemy, sneak up on it as close as you can, then walk on the spot.. (Walk into a wall etc) make sure you are in line of sight with the enemy, and your sneak will level. I find this works well in dwemer ruins with spiders and spheres when they are pre-occupied with patrolling/working.
 

The Phoenician

Shiney, let's be bad guys.
If you are playing as a Dark Elf keep Ancestors wrath handy for when you're out numbered. Every time a bad guy gets close to you they take fire damage. It has saved my but several times.
 

Joker

Cook, Wine Taster, Scotch Taster, Adventure Seeker
How about sniping them with your bow to thin the herd? Apply poisons or fear potions to the arrow, and fire away. Then, sneak away slowly. Ready to shoot the next one. Unless, of course, your archery is not high. Same for sneak. Get the Deadly Aim perk for 3x damage.

Also, if you shoot behind them, they will go looking for the arrow.....giving you time to shoot a couple in the back as well.
 

JoeReese

Well-Known Member
I have to agree with the paralysis poison. It's worth its weight in gold. Canis root and Imp stool. (or swamp fungal pod)
Ice form is indeed an awesome shout. I love that it's a one-word effect, so you don't have any charge up time, don't need to waste two more souls, and get to do it again even sooner.
If you have DB, the cyclone shout is also a beautiful one-word fight stopper, as it dumps them on their heads.
 
To be honest, I had forgotten about the sewer entrance. I think I'd used it in a previous play through and didn't think it had helped, but that may be down to my sucky play and maybe I just messed things up.

I think I need to get better generally at the sneaky play style and using distractions and poisons.
 

SaveVsBedWet

Well-Known Member
Get Ice Form shout: It freezes opponents solid for the duration of the shout, thus enabling you to take them on one, or two at a time, before the others thaw out. Word walls are here:
Iiz: Paralysis and 2 damage/s for 15 seconds


Slen: Paralysis and 2 damage/s for 30 seconds

Nus: Paralysis and 2 damage/s for 60 seconds



Ahh yes. Such an effective deal right here. To this I'd add that there's nothing better sometimes (due to recharge time on Ice Form) than to Fus Roh all of your closest enemies across the room and kill everyone on the way to them while they're trying to get up. Half the time by the time they do and the distance closes again you've already taken out most of the recharge time and can give em a new set of wings soon as they get up.

Best part about it is you can get multiple people. I also have always thought the disarm shout at level 3 might be of some use on the strongest foe. Stops his attack and lets you keep him between yourself and his buds until you literally pelt him with violence.
 

shadowkitty

Mistress of Shadows
Get Ice Form shout: It freezes opponents solid for the duration of the shout, thus enabling you to take them on one, or two at a time, before the others thaw out. Word walls are here:
Iiz: Paralysis and 2 damage/s for 15 seconds



Slen: Paralysis and 2 damage/s for 30 seconds

Nus: Paralysis and 2 damage/s for 60 seconds



Ahh yes. Such an effective deal right here. To this I'd add that there's nothing better sometimes (due to recharge time on Ice Form) than to Fus Roh all of your closest enemies across the room and kill everyone on the way to them while they're trying to get up. Half the time by the time they do and the distance closes again you've already taken out most of the recharge time and can give em a new set of wings soon as they get up.

Best part about it is you can get multiple people. I also have always thought the disarm shout at level 3 might be of some use on the strongest foe. Stops his attack and lets you keep him between yourself and his buds until you literally pelt him with violence.

true. I alternate between Ice form and Unrelenting force. Depending on my mood and where I am. If I am on top of a mountain or cliff, I am more likely to use Unrelenting force. It's always good for a laugh as well.

The other day I accidentally Fus'd a Luna moth and blew its little wings clean off. I didn't know you could do that to insects!
 

shadowkitty

Mistress of Shadows
To be honest, I had forgotten about the sewer entrance. I think I'd used it in a previous play through and didn't think it had helped, but that may be down to my sucky play and maybe I just messed things up.

I think I need to get better generally at the sneaky play style and using distractions and poisons.

I generally leave that quest until my sneak levels are up a bit. Once you play it a little more, you will work out what works for you, and when/if you get into Rp'ing characters, then you will be able to chose what style works for that character :)
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
Have you considered Illusion? I find it invaluable for my assassin characters. If you get muffle right at the beginning from Farengar Secretfire, it will build very quickly. Invisibility, calm, fear, pacify, etc... are very useful.

A thought. Have you considered the bound bow (for sniping)? I often use it on my assassins after getting silent-cast from the illusion tree. It keeps my carry weight down and I can just keep my two dragon-bone daggers with paralyze and health absorb on them and take down just about anything.

If you don't mind some alteration for flesh spells, consider getting Mourner's Clothes from Radiant Raiment in Solitude. All black and look great on an assassin.

Just my thoughts.
 

Pete

Well-Known Member
Ah... area clearing 101. (Or running away to live another day)

If I'm alone and suddenly found my self attacked by 3 or more enemies. The first thing I do in my mind is scream. This means my character is panicked. I run as fast as I can to give me a moment of thinking time.

1) First cast a conjure or staff of summon or raise a dead body if possible
2) Run (or whirl wind sprint) behind said thing to buy another 2 seconds
3) Cast calm on a attacker not engaged with my summoned creature
4) Use a paralyze poison via bow on the last enemy or cast Fury/Fear on them

Another option is to just run and try invisibility with good sneak skill to get away and plan an attack. I can't tell you how many times I've used bows where I shoot at walls to distract enemies.

For me I think a good assassin can use illusion to fool their target into being safe, and manipulating enemies.
 
I'm starting to consider the play through I'm doing to be another test run whilst I work out the play style and understand how I think this character should be. One of the principles I'm now going for is not using learned magic, at least at the beginning. Powers (specifically ancestor's wrath) and shouts should be OK and I've yet to decide on the use of staves (we'll see when one is picked up). I realize this limits the options, especially around illusion but that's part of the fun :)

This guy is also going to be not using followers unless there's a good reason to. I think in the past when I've used stealth I've always had a tank waiting around the corner so it's a question of learning and knowing not to charge in. Panic is a good way of describing it; hitting the mouse button and spamming health potions is not a good way to approach the challenge.

I've also installed the deployable traps mod. I like the idea of luring the enemy to their doom and that may make up for the lack of rune spells.
 

imaginepageant

Slytherin Alumni
Ice Form is great for taking the heat off of yourself, but for thinning the herd, nothing beats Marked for Death. With all three words, the Shout deals 3 points of health damage per second, and also deals 75 points of armor damage per second, for 60 seconds. And the recharge is only 40 seconds. By the time you've killed Bachelor #1, Bachelor #2 has not only taken some damage, but is weaker to your attacks; by the time you've killed him, Bachelor #3 will be so weakened he should only take a couple of swings to dispatch.

It goes well with Illusion spells, too. Hit a group with Marked for Death, then Calm them all, then run away and hide. By the time Calm wears off, you can snipe them with a single arrow apiece. Or send a Fury spell into the group and let them take care of themselves.

Elemental Fury is another must-have, since you're a dual wielder. It almost doubles your attack speed, so enemies will fall a lot faster. I used this as my primary melee strategy with an assassin, and I could kill basically anything, from dragons to lurkers to wispmothers, within the 15 seconds the Shout lasts. The only downfall is, it doesn't work on enchanted weapons... but honestly, the Shout itself is so powerful that I never felt I was at a disadvantage without enchantments.

This guy is also going to be not using followers unless there's a good reason to. I think in the past when I've used stealth I've always had a tank waiting around the corner so it's a question of learning and knowing not to charge in.

I have always found followers to be very bad to stealth characters—they always blow my cover! I might be able to get one sneak shot off, but as soon as the enemy's alerted, my follower will run in to attack. I like to shoot, hide, shoot, hide, lather, rinse repeat. That's impossible with a follower. I would suggest sticking to summons for the times when you need a tank—like after you've been made.
 

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