Why does everyone hate the Thalmor?

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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Could Arena have been Uriel the Ninth? EDIT: Yeah that should be the 4th shouldnt it?

Well Arena - Daggerfall - Morrowind - Oblivion was Uriel the Seventh, so no.

And then why not chalk it up to "an Elder Scroll/ daedra or Daedra using an elder scroll did it?"
Simply put it becomes a matter of what do you want to believe, though warp in the west if proof that weird pl*** just happens.

No.

But alas. Still no independent nation of Skyrim since the empire showed.

You don't need to be independent to be nationalistic. Patriotism is a related sentiment to nationalism. There is nothing to suggest the Stormcloaks aren't being nationalistic, since Skyrim does fall under what a 'Nation' is. The Third Empire is only six hundred years old, with lots of loss of Imperial authority in between.
 

Seanu Reaves

The Shogun of Gaming
You don't need to be independent to be nationalistic. Patriotism is a related sentiment to nationalism. There is nothing to suggest the Stormcloaks aren't being nationalistic, since Skyrim does fall under what a 'Nation' is. The Third Empire is only six hundred years old, with lots of loss of Imperial authority in between.

You need a nation to have any form of Nationalism. (Root words :oops: they are kinda tied together) And Patriotism Patriotism is generally cultural attachment to one's homeland or devotion to one's country, although interpretations of the term vary with context, geography and philosophy. It is a related sentiment to nationalism.

Is basically the same thing. But patriotism doesn't require a nation, but a landmass so it does work. So they are patriotic but not nationalistic. Related not synonymous. And Skyrim has not been fulfilling either of philosophical definitions of a nation I have presented. Now if you present another one that is fine. Remember I asked for either a PM or a new thread. We are clogging this thread.

 

Rimfaxe96

Well-Known Member
Now about those thalmor.... Why do they even seem to look down on me when I am an unaffiliated elf-kin :sadface:

Went through some dialogue data and somewhere there was "Your are no true elf!"
I doubt a random bandit would shout this line, but since I'm always playing a Redguard haven't had the opportunity to hear that line in combat.
I'm not even sure if anybody ever heard it (maybe it's unused in the game?). But it shows that Thalmor > elves.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
You don't need to be independent to be nationalistic. Patriotism is a related sentiment to nationalism. There is nothing to suggest the Stormcloaks aren't being nationalistic, since Skyrim does fall under what a 'Nation' is. The Third Empire is only six hundred years old, with lots of loss of Imperial authority in between.

You need a nation to have any form of Nationalism. (Root words :oops: they are kinda tied together) And Patriotism Patriotism is generally cultural attachment to one's homeland or devotion to one's country, although interpretations of the term vary with context, geography and philosophy. It is a related sentiment to nationalism.

Is basically the same thing. But patriotism doesn't require a nation, but a landmass so it does work. So they are patriotic but not nationalistic. Related not synonymous. And Skyrim has not been fulfilling either of philosophical definitions of a nation I have presented. Now if you present another one that is fine. Remember I asked for either a PM or a new thread. We are clogging this thread.

Quote feature.

tumblr_mccygxATPE1qdku5lo1_500.gif
 

Seanu Reaves

The Shogun of Gaming
Yeah forum glitches out. Yet I notice you are not continuing the argument. So thank you for the personal barb, notifying me of victory.

Bow.gif
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Yeah forum glitches out. Yet I notice you are not continuing the argument. So thank you for the personal barb, notifying me of victory.

You kept wanting me to drop it.

If you want to...

And Skyrim has not been fulfilling either of philosophical definitions of a nation I have presented

And they haven't been a nation because they lack according to Herder "a separate and pure culture, of unique culture and religion and language."

Nordic Culture. Examples of Nord Culture - Politics, Moot, Jarls, High Kings, Hall of the Dead, Companions, Architecture.

Unique culture? Most definitely since no other race on Tamriel shares it. Except the Colovia in Cyrodiil which have Nordic ancestry.

Unique Religion. Examples of Nordic Religion - Shor, Tsun, Kyne, Hall of Valor, Lady Mara being the handmaiden of Kyne. The Nine Gods of the Empire are largely accepted across all Tamriel under different names. Even thousands of years before the Empire came to be. There are many who worship the Eight/Nine but there are still a large number that worship their traditional Gods.

Language. Where do you think the Imperials learned to speak? From Elves and Nords. It isn't uncommon for there to be a single major language, it is needed for trade and alliances to be able to communicate. English is a large language in our world, does that mean every country that uses it, isn't a nation?

That basically has a nation as a group will [sic] a history (which Skyrim has though it is also with them being with the Empire) And communal struggle.

Skyrim has a history, only one small part of it with the Empire. It has a deep and rich history, especially surrounding the Nords.

Communal struggle, so Skyrim has never had that? Really?
 

Seanu Reaves

The Shogun of Gaming
I said we should take it to a PM or a new thread. You like new threads right?

Unique culture? Most definitely since no other race on Tamriel shares it. Except the Colovia in Cyrodiil which have Nordic ancestry.

I rest me case.

Unique Religion. Examples of Nordic Religion - Shor, Tsun, Kyne, Hall of Valor, Lady Mara being the handmaiden of Kyne. The Nine Gods of the Empire are largely accepted across all Tamriel under different names. Even thousands of years before the Empire came to be. There are many who worship the Eight/Nine but there are still a large number that worship their traditional Gods.

Language. Where do you think the Imperials learned to speak? From Elves and Nords. It isn't uncommon for there to be a single major language, it is needed for trade and alliances to be able to communicate. English is a large language in our world, does that mean every country that uses it, isn't a nation?

That basically has a nation as a group will [sic] a history (which Skyrim has though it is also with them being with the Empire) And communal struggle.

Skyrim has a history, only one small part of it with the Empire. It has a deep and rich history, especially surrounding the Nords.

Communal struggle, so Skyrim has never had that? Really?

They worshiped Gods that paralleled the Eight not the same. The nine is a completely Imperial thing. Because you know... Talos or Tiber Septim is tied to the Empire. And the nords revere him because of what he did for the Empire... Kyne and Kynarethe you say? It goes on and on.

Language. Standardized by the imperials, the fact the Nords are so bound the Empire is just becomeing more apparent as you continue trying to defend yourself.

English is a largely used language, yet it isn't basically the only one. Their are multiple languages that actually come close to being spoke as much worldwide as english. So it stands to say it is not equal.

Not recently, that community has been tied to the Empire to the point that they are not distinct. Such is what happens. Similar to the Manchu's who conquered China, and end up being assimilated and seeing themselves as Chinese.

So now we are at a good point to transfer to somewhere not in anyone else's way.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
I rest me case.

Because Colovian's are more Nordic, it therefor makes Skyrim not a nation? You should play Oblivion, tell me if can actually spot what makes Colovian's more Nordic. Before you rest your case. You can give me a list, if you're able to manage that.

They worshiped Gods that paralleled the Eight not the same.

They were basically the same, under different names. Minor things changed here and there.

The nine is a completely Imperial thing.

It's an Nordic/Aldmeri thing.

Because you know... Talos or Tiber Septim is tied to the Empire. And the nords revere him because of what he did for the Empire...

No they don't. They revere him because he was Dragonborn, they followed him before there was an Empire.

Kyne and Kynarethe you say? It goes on and on.

Yes, they all share different names. Across many cultures. Zenithar & Z'en, Jhunal & Julianos, Akatosh & Auri-El,
Bormahu, Alkosh etc.

What is your point?

Language. Standardized by the imperials

Source? Or is that just your personal belief, because in the games they're speaking Tamrielic (English).

the fact the Nords are so bound the Empire is just becomeing more apparent as you continue trying to defend yourself.

You're using philosophy to justify something being considered a Nation. When it is considered a nation in the dictionary sense. So we looked at religion, they have their own religions and many have accepted the Nine Divines. Doesn't mean they're not a nation. Culture? They have their own culture, well represented very different from every other province.

English is a largely used language, yet it isn't basically the only one. Their are multiple languages that actually come close to being spoke as much worldwide as english. So it stands to say it is not equal.

Show me the source where the Empire created the language. You're assuming they did.

Not recently, that community has been tied to the Empire to the point that they are not distinct. Such is what happens. Similar to the Manchu's who conquered China, and end up being assimilated and seeing themselves as Chinese.

Great Collapse, Empire wasn't involved. Riots in Riften, Empire didn't involve itself when it was burnt to the ground.

You're trying to pull every card to make it like Skyrim is not distinct from the Empire as a whole. Go read up on how the Empire works in TES, not on what someone did in China.
 

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